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What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I've just had an exam where one of the questions was: In considering the instrumental music of these islands, what would you consider to be the characteristic ingredients of 'traditional style'?
Would be really interested to find out what real people think - I've read too many academic papers on the subject recently!
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Andy, firstly congratulations on your diplomatic description of our geographic location as "these islands". Not being an academic I won't attempt a description of "characteristic ingredients". Other than to say it's mainly an aural tradition handed down from one generation to another based on both dance music and traditional (sen-nós) songs, there's not much more I can add. Sometimes I think we're a bit too analytic about it and rather than spending so much time "navel gazing", we should be out there playing and listening! Listening to the likes of Joe Cooley, Tony McMahon, Elizabeth Crotty, Tommy Peoples, Paddy Canny (the list goes on), in my mind anyway, is a lot more enlightening than any number of text books.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
By "these islands" does it mean the British Isles?
Seriously though that seems an impossible question. The traditional styles vary greatly depending on where you are and what instrument you play. There have already been innumerable threads on this site about the wide variety of fiddle styles. It is surely impossible to pin down any one 'style' as being traditional. Surely the only characteristic ingredients that mark someone playing in a 'traditional style' would be if they were consistent with the particular style they perport to play. There would be the opportunity, in this question, I imagine, to look at a variety of contrasting styles as exemplars, eg Shetland, Donegal, Clare, Scottish West Coast, Borders or Northumbrian (maybe a good idea for your course!) and look at what marks off each style and perhaps talk about people that typify that style. I would imagine that the question is trying to get you to say that there is no one definitive 'traditional' style.
All in all it looks like nasty question and one that there is real danger fo you talking about for far too long!
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
By "these islands" does it mean the British Isles? - I assumed Andy was not excluding the debate to Britain and was also considering Ireland when he referred to "these islands"
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Yup - that'd be England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales & Northern Ireland. Or "the Islands consisting of Great Britain, the island consisting of Northern Ireland and Eire, plus outlying islands. Although, that would have been quite a clever way to avoid properly answering the question!
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Not a requirement for it to be traditional - there are plenty of rotten tunes with rubbish melody and rhythm and there are plenty of non-traditional tunes with both great melody and rhythm. I also think uni examiners would be expecting more than 4 words as an answer.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Or "the islands consisting of Eire and outlying islands including Britain"?
Yeah, the world "traditional" has little to do with particular styles. In my understanding, that means something which is sufficiently old but will never age, unlike crappy pops.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
As drone says, definitely (for dance tunes, anyway).
But - The Beatles have these, and much 60s charts stuff!
To narrow it down to the traditional dance music of these islands:
It exists in a limited range of rhythms (specify if needful);
Its essential ingredient is a single melody line (which can but need not be accompanied);
The music is nearly always diatonic, though some tunes have chromatic accidentals.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Difficult to define something that is always growing. No sooner will you have written the definition but it will be outgrown. I would assume that the context of these Islands would be obvious if we knew exactly what music course and where.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Well the moniker andy@newcastle makes that kind of self explanatory. I am taking a wild stab in the dark here and guessing it is the traditional music course at Newcastle Uni in the Sage!
Given this then I think Nicholas' definition needs to be worked on as I can think of examples of Northumbrian tunes in particular that fail do stick to that diatonic pattern (even acknowledging occasional accidentals) - Sir Sidney Smith's March for example!
There are also plenty of Scottish fiddle tunes that are full of these accidentals and are very much part of the tradition. Anyway most Western music is basically diatonic including pop - it is not something that is peculiar of traditional music.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Its essential ingredient is a single melody line (which can but need not be accompanied); Nicholas, is that a nice way of saying that guitarists and bodhrán players are not really necessary?
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
It's a bit worrying that a course in trad music is asking people to define traditional style. Mission statements will be posted soon in session pubs from Inverness to Invercargill detailing the new targets to be reached. All players are requested to study them and abide by the style guidelines.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I've been playing all kinds of so called Traditional music for over fifty years and I find that a lot of ' Auld S....e' is sometimes talked about this style and that style of playing. When I started playing the box in the early fifties, their were very few people around who could teach properly. If you learnt a tune from somebody, you inherited their style, good bad and indifferent and needless to say, many of their faults too. I remember that the first jig I learnt from a fiddler was 'The Rambling Pitchfork' I was playing it for ages before I discovered that he had taught me to play it in C. The written key for the tune is of course D. So it was back to the drawing board. Nowadays with so much techno stuff at your fingertips, my advice to any musician is to listen to all the so called styles. Then learn to play the tune and play it in the style that suits yourself.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
OK, my set of characteristics still hasn't filtered out "our" TM from a lot of pop - that is, pop which has tunes at all. I could add:
Trad dance music in these islands is only seldom accompanied by sung words. though occasionally wordless lilting or "mouth music" takes the place of a melody instrument. (In other countries, e.g. Greece, dance music is accompanied by singing most of the time, I think.)
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
We mustn't forget that the voice is older than any musical instrument and that many of our dance tunes originated from sean-nós style songs. As I said before I'm not a musical academic so cannot quote chapter and verse but I'm fairly confident that if someone were prepared to do the research that links would be found between our dance tunes and older melodies. Examples that immediately come to mind are the Caileach an Airgid and Rogaire Dubh jigs that both come from songs.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Again Nicholas, your definition does not allow for the tradition in the Highlands and Western Isles for puirt or the waulking tradition where it is a major feature and not "occasional". The idea of canterrach (singing pipe tunes) is also a feature of the tradition, although it is less common than it used to be, and originates in keeping the tunes alive when the pipes were banned. Traditional music is not all about dance music either and song should be seen as a major feature of it.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Perhaps everyone ought to go and do a degree in Musicology and then one could desist all this constant uneducated ranglings about categories and definitions and get on with some serious, informed debate about comparitive ethnic music genres or WOTTEFFAH (as the young people say).
PS: Invercargill is at the arse end of NZ South Island. One has never been there. In Bill Wyman's autobiography he says that it was the most sh*te place the Stones ever went...and they went to lots & lots & lots & lots of places. One was acquainted with a chap called Gary who was a roadie in the 80's (UK Subs) and he met a Kiwi bird on tour and ended up living there (Invergargill). Aparrently the Farmer boys there make Texas seem like Henley or Peckham or Exmouth.
Anyway still happily "just sort of strumming along"
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Invergargle! Love it!
We're not all going to do degrees in musicology yhaallhouse, so the uneducated wrangling will continue I'm afraid. I can't see that it could be any worse than educated wrangling. At least we're under no illusions about how ignorant we are.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Traditional style of what? Traditional style of tunes or traditional style of playing? You can play traditional style tunes in an untraditional playing style. We've talked about the definition of "traditional" several times before on this site, and I seem to remember us coming to conclusion each time that something is "traditional" if there is a general agreement in the community of musicians playing the music that it is "traditional". So probably most people who use thesession.org would agree that whilst Flook are influenced by traditional music, their tunes and playing style are mostly untraditional. Most people here would agree that a tune like Josephine Keegan's Aughacashel Reel is traditional in style, despite being relatively recently composed. Those same people would probably agree that a tune like the Wizard's Walk is untraditional, even though there'd be disagreement as to whether it's a crap tune or not (I think you know by now what I think of it).
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Just had a look at the Wizard's Walk - and left a comment!
I do like Flook though. They are certainly, not only influenced by traditional music, but are fine players of it too. The stuff they play as a group may not be arranged in a totally "pure-drop" style but I would say that most of the tunes are within the genre, even though they are modern compositions. The Ballybrolly Jigs, for example, are great tunes that are perfectly comfortable being put along side many much older tunes.
I was wondering when yhaalhouse would arrive... These 'sweeping' questions are head bangers, like that one 'Discussion' that started with 50+ numbered questions, and the person claiming to be an 'ethnomusicologist', this question isn't far from the same sort of thing, but wide open gaping questions like this can still be a bit of fun, and at least it isn't broken up into all it's possible constituencies, not yet anyway, but here's a start... The maws of limbo open ~
Let's begin with considering definitions, including denotative & connotative ~
"traditional" ~ how do the 'sources' describe what they do, or define the terms? How does the person asking the question? What does it mean to you? This word isn't far from the 'F' word ~ "folk"...
"Island" ~ I love this, because the term has again been used in endless ways and could be applied in an interesting way here. Those of us involved in some aspect of what we might file under the concerns of this question are mostly living that aspect of our existence on an island, and island that may be no larger than the pub we frequent to express ourselves through this 'similar' passion, or may even be limited for some to here, the virtual, their computer and wherever it is they commune with it and this website and its members. So, even here, we have a virtual island in a digital quagmire. But to be more correct, everything must be in the plural, with the 's' added ~ traditions / styles / islands...
There is, as well as the virtual here, the physical to define? ~ national, regional, district, shire, group, family, individual... Urban, rural...
So, beyond the fussy bits, definitions, we also have to concern ourselves with context ~ social, cultural, economic, political ~ and function ~ Play (Dance & Sessions), Work (milling frolics for example), work for gain...
Once you narrow down your concerns, and question, to something more manageable, geographically, socially, contextually, and you have found an 'island' small enough that you can walk the length and breadth of it, then you can deal with what it has that distinquishes it from the sea around it ~ what does it share in common, what distinguishes it in difference??
Defining 'traditonal style' means refining the questions ~ What / Who / Where / When / Why / How.... That doesn't mean that you can't start with a hypothesis that is 'general' and then work to prove or disprove your assumption(s). The difficulty is that no two occurances of 'tradition' will be 100% alike, group or individual, even, as we know, when dealing with the same individual in different settings or repeating what we might mistake as being the same take on the same tune we heard them play two weeks ago.
Another way to try to distill what it is we're after, the 'essences' the 'key elements' of this package, is to explore how it exports? The packaging and the contents and the means of transportation and recreation. What are the key element that survive in its movement from say Bantry Bay, West Country Cork, Ireland to Tokyo, Japan? What do the Wizard's minions in Oz do with it? That also applies closer to home. How does a country set fare in the hands of the yuppies of Dublin or Cork? Even in Tokyo or Sydney you'll find at least a duality ~ for example 'dance' and 'session', are they divided or inseperable? And there will be at least slight differences possible in how that culture handles the import. It is always a mistake to assume that 'technique', if we are wanting the 'mechanical' essence, is not affected by context or function...
So, that's just for a start and off the top of my head. Apologies for anything that doesn't make sense, and for the usual typos. But while we're at it 'Andy-O'-Newcastle', you might start with your defining and search for clarity in your 'details':
"And it annoys me when people omit to distinguish where in the music they play comes from." ~ ?
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
No, you didn't have to do that. Now the seed has been planted I'm sure to suffer. I'd been working hard to forget, had put miles and years between me and the, and you, yuh basturd, and to go poking around in the dark recesses of my mind... You have no real idea do you 'Alarm'? I could recommend some recordings maybe, but for the full experience you might try Boston? Here, one poke in the eye deserves another, look up Jay Ungar and go listen to how he plays it. Heh, heh, heh... Then when you've stopped screaming a wretching come back and tell me what effects it had on your sensibilities... Actually, next time your down in London I think there's a contra dance group there and they are sure to play Unger tunes. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something nearer to you. Now that's the full on experience, except it would be better met in New England or California. I'd even be curious to see that, as long as I was driving and could leave as I chose...
There's a 'traditional style' of sorts, heh, heh, heh...
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Damn BB, how'd you slip dimensions over to here? ~ crossed wires? And I thought my brain was scrambled...
"Key Elements of (one species of) Traditional Style"
Pinks ~ a paisley-patterned nylon tie and vest...
Bloody Marys...
Multi-coloured knee-high cowboy boots with acid & stone washed blue jeans tucked inside...
A strong Australian drawl, as opposed to a Southern Louisiana one...
A white cotton 'Paddy-hat', yeah, musn't forget that, with some sort of golf emblem on the front ~ and at least one of those cream and brown badly out-of-tune Guiness whistles ~ and three shaky eggs, each of a different flourescent colour and pitch, and all brought together in a special case to carry such things in...
Facial hair and bad breath...
A repertoire limited to polkas and O'Carolan tunes, with a tendency toward singing songs like "Irish Rover" and "Black Velvet Band"...
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Dave; I should point out that this is after my exam - and I'm not sure that I could have cite anyone's ideas anyway as I've no idea who anyone actually is! But I think they'd probably be rather amused by the ingenuity.
Ceolachan; there's nothing more annoying than arranging a set in a band with a tune that someone tells you is trad. Scottish, then discovering it's not traditional (nor is it Scottish) and you're going to be filling in PRS/MPCS sheets for twice as long!!
Someone hit the nail on the head - it doesn't state whether it means compositional style, performance style, playing style or what. I presume it was meant to be open ended in that way.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I've got the bit between my teeth now, I used to write essays once. Points taken, No Cause, but I stick to my remarks in general applied to the music of "these islands" as a whole; they certainly include Scottish mouth music, also - outside dance - military pipe music and Carolan, but I haven't extended them to song though I *know* it's important.
My idea, briefly, is that traditional music other than that accompanying song - to keep the subject from sprawling - has, across these islands, a fairly limited range of rhythms and bar-counts; has a usually diatonic scale structure (yes, lots of exceptions, usually departing in a very limited way from diatonic); and is based at any time on the playing of one or another melody from the player's repertoire, accompaniment being subservient to keeping the melody audible and recognisable throughout. (As these melodies - tunes - are of limited length, it is most usual that a succession of them get played.)
That's all just meant to be a note that trad in these islands operates within particular boundaries and conventions.
The style is what a player puts into his/her playing of these tunes to make them function best. Dance has been the raison d'etre of most of them, and its needs have dictated their standard rhythms and lengths. Other purposes are found, like the uses of bagpipes in the army, or playing music for people to tap their toes to,or (as with some of Carolan's or the Gow's tunes) music to mellow out to. Style is what a musician draws upon to give the people connected to him - and hopefully, him/herself - what they want, in a given situation.
i.e., style is called into being, originally, by purpose .
Take the rest from there - Morris styles, fiddle styles, local styles, session styles, the lot!...
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Often times Andy an open-ended question, of an 'essay' nature, is added to an exam to see if the student can reign in the expanse and bring themselves to focus on one possible aspect of the question. You could get real and just deal with one pub session you know or are aware of, or this website. You could then just deal with the repeating identifiers of the event, as it is just 'key elements' of a 'traditional style' you are asked to deal with. You could narrow it down further to just one person, or even to focusing on what you constitute as a musician involved in a traditon, or traditions, and style or styles.
So, the test in a question like this may be to see if you the student can focus, can be analytical in a precise way rather than blowing it wide open with a scatter gun...
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
"MPCS".......don't tell 'em I called em' that......they'll be after me for plagarism It's got to be one of the most faff-ish systems I've ever encountered - our mandolinist had to register as he's wrote a couple of the tunes we play. Bloody nightmare!
If anyone was interested how I answered it (I can't imagine they are, but supine) I dedicated half of it to fairly general and the other half to a comparison two fiddlers from the course (one Shetland, one Northumbrian) in terms of how they play "The Beeswing". The wonders of seen papers, of course, is that I got them to analyse their differences - I'll make an ethnomusicologist yet!!
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I'd love to read it... Wouldn't you just know...
The whole issue of the various species of PRS and unions is something else, and not one I can speak of civily. I understand the need for something to stand up for the rights of musicians and a decent wage, but like other organizations setting out to do good for this our passion and concern, their tools are dull and the results are too often clumsy and bruising, to downright lethal... On the tools side of the analogy, remember that things old chestnut about using a sledge hammer to crack a nut... Like all things political, these things too often tend to draw vested interests to their ranks, the ego-centric and the foolish, and what sometimes seems to me, the souless...
The key elements of traditional style, to try to add something on subject, is that it has roots and that they show...
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
"These islands" could be defined entirely geographically, presumably without upsetting anyone, by drawing a circumscribing polygon on a map of the globe.
Such a polygon could be defined by the lines joining the following points:
N50 W12
N62 W11.5
N62 E3
N51.75 E3
N50.25 E0 (the Meridian)
N50 W2
N49 W1.88
and back to N50 W12
This polygon includes the larger islands (Ireland and the England-Scotland/Wales landmass), the Channel Isles, the Isles of Scilly, Orkney and Shetland, the Isle of Man, and other islands off the coasts of Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland, but excludes the Faroes.
BTW, I did this exercise using Google Earth.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I have learned that Goltrai (airs and graces), Geantrai (happy-dance tunes) and Suantrai (lullabies, sleepy time) are the archaic styles, but probably only Geantrai is appropriate for modern sessions. and this then is divided reels , jigs , hornpipes etc . Therefore one might conclude that most session music is a style that was suitable for dancing, but that would be a mistake.
My general impression, which is hardly justified by scholarship is that music in the south(of Eire) is more relaxed with no loss of passion, and in the north country it is more intensely manifest
even academic to a near vanishing point . not literally of course.
Just one persons view FWIW.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
i haven't the time to read all the replies, so forgive me if its already been said, but i think that the oral part is the most defining characteristic. its this that causes a tune to have multiple names, and it allows for the formations of both regional and personal styles( regional being exemplified in donegal style fiddling or sligo style fiddling, and personal being the different variations used by each musician.) just my thoughts.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Yeah, No cause For Alarm did mention 'canterrach'. I thought this system was originally developed as a system of musical notation, so that the tunes could not only be memorised from the syllables used, but also written down, that is, transcribed.
What I didn't put two and two together on is, was this done because, if the pipes were banned at the time, this was a pretty well encrypted way of preserving the tunes for posterity and the time the pipes could be played again?
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Glad to see you mention Ceol Mor as it does not get as much air time as is deserved of ancient musical art form. With regards to an essay on trad music styles Ceol Mor would have to be assessed as an aside - a unique tradition. Caneterach did not come about as a result of the pipes being banned but as during the clan system of the Highlands (which dates back many centuries before the act of proscription) oral tradition was the norm. Music notation was a European invention. given the structure and patterns which occur in Pibroch it is impossible to convey its style via a standardised manuscript. canterach is still the best and most pure way to teach pibroch.
Im still not persuaded as to whether or not the pipes were actually banned in Scotland. This is a popular comment and helps give the Great Highland Bagpipe a defiant image but just imagine if they banned their playing who would have enforced it? the Black Watch? the Highlands were policed by bagpipe playing clansmen anyway
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
My understanding of Canterach (sp?) is that it is effectively an alternate form of notation. If you look in the museum in the National Piping Centre in Glasgow you can see books of tunes written out in Canterach rather than in classical manucript. It is certainly far less common now and pipers probably use manuscript more than most traditional musicians as, particularly when playing in the classical style there is a set way to play each tune and the notes and gracings are fairly prescriptive.
Sounds like you came up with a good idea for the paper Andy. I am sure it would make interesting reading. Tell Ross he plays too fast!
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I wonder if Pibroch originated as an imitation of older harp music. I gather the harp was well-developed and popular in Scotland long before the bagpipe developed into something like its present Highland form in the c15; and listening to a recently composed piece of Welsh harp music, which was all phrase sequences, no tune or rhythm to speak of, I felt I was listening to something - very listenable, I'd add - that could well have been whatever is the singular of goltrai or suantrai, at any rate a piece deliberately designed in the fairly remote past as mood music. The structure and function of pibroch seems comparable to this kind of harp music, though I've only heard little pibroch and a long time ago.
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
nicholas
you are correct in your observations. it is commonly accepted that clarsach music was the precursor to pibroch of the west highlands. however the ornamentation - crunluath, taorluath, a-mach etc are unique to the highland bagpipe.
i look forward to hearing some welsh harp music. can you direct me to some on the internet?
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Five players of the triple harp:
Rhiain Bebb
Robin Huw Bowen
Huw Roberts
Wynn Thomas
Steffan Thomas
etc...
There is no single harp tradition (or alive language) that hasn't been affected and changed by the passing of history...but I imagine, as always, there are those that would want to argue otherwise...
What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I've just had an exam where one of the questions was: In considering the instrumental music of these islands, what would you consider to be the characteristic ingredients of 'traditional style'?
Would be really interested to find out what real people think - I've read too many academic papers on the subject recently!
Andy
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Andy V
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Which islands are you talking about.
Cook, Cocos/Keeling, Indonesian, Fijian...?
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by UncleNobby'sSteamboat
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Andy, firstly congratulations on your diplomatic description of our geographic location as "these islands". Not being an academic I won't attempt a description of "characteristic ingredients". Other than to say it's mainly an aural tradition handed down from one generation to another based on both dance music and traditional (sen-nós) songs, there's not much more I can add. Sometimes I think we're a bit too analytic about it and rather than spending so much time "navel gazing", we should be out there playing and listening! Listening to the likes of Joe Cooley, Tony McMahon, Elizabeth Crotty, Tommy Peoples, Paddy Canny (the list goes on), in my mind anyway, is a lot more enlightening than any number of text books.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
By "these islands" does it mean the British Isles?
Seriously though that seems an impossible question. The traditional styles vary greatly depending on where you are and what instrument you play. There have already been innumerable threads on this site about the wide variety of fiddle styles. It is surely impossible to pin down any one 'style' as being traditional. Surely the only characteristic ingredients that mark someone playing in a 'traditional style' would be if they were consistent with the particular style they perport to play. There would be the opportunity, in this question, I imagine, to look at a variety of contrasting styles as exemplars, eg Shetland, Donegal, Clare, Scottish West Coast, Borders or Northumbrian (maybe a good idea for your course!) and look at what marks off each style and perhaps talk about people that typify that style. I would imagine that the question is trying to get you to say that there is no one definitive 'traditional' style.
All in all it looks like nasty question and one that there is real danger fo you talking about for far too long!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Clearly I was writing my post for too long - there were no replies when I started typing!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
By "these islands" does it mean the British Isles? - I assumed Andy was not excluding the debate to Britain and was also considering Ireland when he referred to "these islands"
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Yup - that'd be England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales & Northern Ireland. Or "the Islands consisting of Great Britain, the island consisting of Northern Ireland and Eire, plus outlying islands. Although, that would have been quite a clever way to avoid properly answering the question!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Andy V
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Infectious melody. Compelling rhythm.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by drone
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Not a requirement for it to be traditional - there are plenty of rotten tunes with rubbish melody and rhythm and there are plenty of non-traditional tunes with both great melody and rhythm. I also think uni examiners would be expecting more than 4 words as an answer.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Or "the islands consisting of Eire and outlying islands including Britain"?
Yeah, the world "traditional" has little to do with particular styles. In my understanding, that means something which is sufficiently old but will never age, unlike crappy pops.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by slainte
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
As drone says, definitely (for dance tunes, anyway).
But - The Beatles have these, and much 60s charts stuff!
To narrow it down to the traditional dance music of these islands:
It exists in a limited range of rhythms (specify if needful);
Its essential ingredient is a single melody line (which can but need not be accompanied);
The music is nearly always diatonic, though some tunes have chromatic accidentals.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Difficult to define something that is always growing. No sooner will you have written the definition but it will be outgrown. I would assume that the context of these Islands would be obvious if we knew exactly what music course and where.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Donough
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
His name is andy@newcastle so it probably means Holy Island
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bren
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Well the moniker andy@newcastle makes that kind of self explanatory. I am taking a wild stab in the dark here and guessing it is the traditional music course at Newcastle Uni in the Sage!
Given this then I think Nicholas' definition needs to be worked on as I can think of examples of Northumbrian tunes in particular that fail do stick to that diatonic pattern (even acknowledging occasional accidentals) - Sir Sidney Smith's March for example!
There are also plenty of Scottish fiddle tunes that are full of these accidentals and are very much part of the tradition. Anyway most Western music is basically diatonic including pop - it is not something that is peculiar of traditional music.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Damn it Bren! That is the second time in this thread that someone has jumped in ahead of me. I am going away now to cry
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Its essential ingredient is a single melody line (which can but need not be accompanied); Nicholas, is that a nice way of saying that guitarists and bodhrán players are not really necessary?
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
It's a bit worrying that a course in trad music is asking people to define traditional style. Mission statements will be posted soon in session pubs from Inverness to Invercargill detailing the new targets to be reached. All players are requested to study them and abide by the style guidelines.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bren
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I've been playing all kinds of so called Traditional music for over fifty years and I find that a lot of ' Auld S....e' is sometimes talked about this style and that style of playing. When I started playing the box in the early fifties, their were very few people around who could teach properly. If you learnt a tune from somebody, you inherited their style, good bad and indifferent and needless to say, many of their faults too. I remember that the first jig I learnt from a fiddler was 'The Rambling Pitchfork' I was playing it for ages before I discovered that he had taught me to play it in C. The written key for the tune is of course D. So it was back to the drawing board. Nowadays with so much techno stuff at your fingertips, my advice to any musician is to listen to all the so called styles. Then learn to play the tune and play it in the style that suits yourself.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Free Reed
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
OK, my set of characteristics still hasn't filtered out "our" TM from a lot of pop - that is, pop which has tunes at all. I could add:
Trad dance music in these islands is only seldom accompanied by sung words. though occasionally wordless lilting or "mouth music" takes the place of a melody instrument. (In other countries, e.g. Greece, dance music is accompanied by singing most of the time, I think.)
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Bren, where's Invercargill? Is it a suburb of Inverness, or somewhere in Australia?
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
We mustn't forget that the voice is older than any musical instrument and that many of our dance tunes originated from sean-nós style songs. As I said before I'm not a musical academic so cannot quote chapter and verse but I'm fairly confident that if someone were prepared to do the research that links would be found between our dance tunes and older melodies. Examples that immediately come to mind are the Caileach an Airgid and Rogaire Dubh jigs that both come from songs.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Again Nicholas, your definition does not allow for the tradition in the Highlands and Western Isles for puirt or the waulking tradition where it is a major feature and not "occasional". The idea of canterrach (singing pipe tunes) is also a feature of the tradition, although it is less common than it used to be, and originates in keeping the tunes alive when the pipes were banned. Traditional music is not all about dance music either and song should be seen as a major feature of it.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Perhaps everyone ought to go and do a degree in Musicology and then one could desist all this constant uneducated ranglings about categories and definitions and get on with some serious, informed debate about comparitive ethnic music genres or WOTTEFFAH (as the young people say).
PS: Invercargill is at the arse end of NZ South Island. One has never been there. In Bill Wyman's autobiography he says that it was the most sh*te place the Stones ever went...and they went to lots & lots & lots & lots of places. One was acquainted with a chap called Gary who was a roadie in the 80's (UK Subs) and he met a Kiwi bird on tour and ended up living there (Invergargill). Aparrently the Farmer boys there make Texas seem like Henley or Peckham or Exmouth.
Anyway still happily "just sort of strumming along"
Luv YHAALHOUSE
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Invergargle! Love it!
We're not all going to do degrees in musicology yhaallhouse, so the uneducated wrangling will continue I'm afraid. I can't see that it could be any worse than educated wrangling. At least we're under no illusions about how ignorant we are.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Bren
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Traditional style of what? Traditional style of tunes or traditional style of playing? You can play traditional style tunes in an untraditional playing style. We've talked about the definition of "traditional" several times before on this site, and I seem to remember us coming to conclusion each time that something is "traditional" if there is a general agreement in the community of musicians playing the music that it is "traditional". So probably most people who use thesession.org would agree that whilst Flook are influenced by traditional music, their tunes and playing style are mostly untraditional. Most people here would agree that a tune like Josephine Keegan's Aughacashel Reel is traditional in style, despite being relatively recently composed. Those same people would probably agree that a tune like the Wizard's Walk is untraditional, even though there'd be disagreement as to whether it's a crap tune or not (I think you know by now what I think of it).
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Dow
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Just had a look at the Wizard's Walk - and left a comment!
I do like Flook though. They are certainly, not only influenced by traditional music, but are fine players of it too. The stuff they play as a group may not be arranged in a totally "pure-drop" style but I would say that most of the tunes are within the genre, even though they are modern compositions. The Ballybrolly Jigs, for example, are great tunes that are perfectly comfortable being put along side many much older tunes.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
"key elements" ~ "traditional style"?
I was wondering when yhaalhouse would arrive... These 'sweeping' questions are head bangers, like that one 'Discussion' that started with 50+ numbered questions, and the person claiming to be an 'ethnomusicologist', this question isn't far from the same sort of thing, but wide open gaping questions like this can still be a bit of fun, and at least it isn't broken up into all it's possible constituencies, not yet anyway, but here's a start... The maws of limbo open ~
Let's begin with considering definitions, including denotative & connotative ~
"traditional" ~ how do the 'sources' describe what they do, or define the terms? How does the person asking the question? What does it mean to you? This word isn't far from the 'F' word ~ "folk"...
"style" ~ dress? personality? ~ other decorative features? ~ context & function??
"Island" ~ I love this, because the term has again been used in endless ways and could be applied in an interesting way here. Those of us involved in some aspect of what we might file under the concerns of this question are mostly living that aspect of our existence on an island, and island that may be no larger than the pub we frequent to express ourselves through this 'similar' passion, or may even be limited for some to here, the virtual, their computer and wherever it is they commune with it and this website and its members. So, even here, we have a virtual island in a digital quagmire. But to be more correct, everything must be in the plural, with the 's' added ~ traditions / styles / islands...
There is, as well as the virtual here, the physical to define? ~ national, regional, district, shire, group, family, individual... Urban, rural...
So, beyond the fussy bits, definitions, we also have to concern ourselves with context ~ social, cultural, economic, political ~ and function ~ Play (Dance & Sessions), Work (milling frolics for example), work for gain...
Once you narrow down your concerns, and question, to something more manageable, geographically, socially, contextually, and you have found an 'island' small enough that you can walk the length and breadth of it, then you can deal with what it has that distinquishes it from the sea around it ~ what does it share in common, what distinguishes it in difference??
Defining 'traditonal style' means refining the questions ~ What / Who / Where / When / Why / How.... That doesn't mean that you can't start with a hypothesis that is 'general' and then work to prove or disprove your assumption(s). The difficulty is that no two occurances of 'tradition' will be 100% alike, group or individual, even, as we know, when dealing with the same individual in different settings or repeating what we might mistake as being the same take on the same tune we heard them play two weeks ago.
Another way to try to distill what it is we're after, the 'essences' the 'key elements' of this package, is to explore how it exports? The packaging and the contents and the means of transportation and recreation. What are the key element that survive in its movement from say Bantry Bay, West Country Cork, Ireland to Tokyo, Japan? What do the Wizard's minions in Oz do with it? That also applies closer to home. How does a country set fare in the hands of the yuppies of Dublin or Cork? Even in Tokyo or Sydney you'll find at least a duality ~ for example 'dance' and 'session', are they divided or inseperable? And there will be at least slight differences possible in how that culture handles the import. It is always a mistake to assume that 'technique', if we are wanting the 'mechanical' essence, is not affected by context or function...
So, that's just for a start and off the top of my head. Apologies for anything that doesn't make sense, and for the usual typos. But while we're at it 'Andy-O'-Newcastle', you might start with your defining and search for clarity in your 'details':
"And it annoys me when people omit to distinguish where in the music they play comes from." ~ ?
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
And you were complaing Alarm, you stepped all over my entrance, you and Dow, sheesh!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Ah but that is because you just wrote a bl**dy exam essay yourself!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Sorry, forgot ----->
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
"Bloody" is OK with me... You haven't seen me in 'essay mode'...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Likewise!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I love how you two brought up "Wizard's Walk" while I was typing and me mentioning "Wizard's minions"... There must be a 'connection'... Ooooooooh!!!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Dow brought up Wizard's Walk - not me. I hadn't really heard of it before (except I do remember Dow slagging it at some point!)
Perhaps you were talking about Wizards though because, in the back of your mind, you were thinking about Jay Ungar and his crap collection of tunes!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
No, you didn't have to do that. Now the seed has been planted I'm sure to suffer. I'd been working hard to forget, had put miles and years between me and the, and you, yuh basturd, and to go poking around in the dark recesses of my mind... You have no real idea do you 'Alarm'? I could recommend some recordings maybe, but for the full experience you might try Boston? Here, one poke in the eye deserves another, look up Jay Ungar and go listen to how he plays it. Heh, heh, heh... Then when you've stopped screaming a wretching come back and tell me what effects it had on your sensibilities... Actually, next time your down in London I think there's a contra dance group there and they are sure to play Unger tunes. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something nearer to you. Now that's the full on experience, except it would be better met in New England or California. I'd even be curious to see that, as long as I was driving and could leave as I chose...
There's a 'traditional style' of sorts, heh, heh, heh...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Alternatively you could eat a kilo of white sugar...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
"America's bitches". Keep up to date, and don't offend anyone, no more British Isles.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Damn BB, how'd you slip dimensions over to here? ~ crossed wires? And I thought my brain was scrambled...
"Key Elements of (one species of) Traditional Style"
Pinks ~ a paisley-patterned nylon tie and vest...
Bloody Marys...
Multi-coloured knee-high cowboy boots with acid & stone washed blue jeans tucked inside...
A strong Australian drawl, as opposed to a Southern Louisiana one...
A white cotton 'Paddy-hat', yeah, musn't forget that, with some sort of golf emblem on the front ~ and at least one of those cream and brown badly out-of-tune Guiness whistles ~ and three shaky eggs, each of a different flourescent colour and pitch, and all brought together in a special case to carry such things in...
Facial hair and bad breath...
A repertoire limited to polkas and O'Carolan tunes, with a tendency toward singing songs like "Irish Rover" and "Black Velvet Band"...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
"There'll be a Welcome in the Hillside"
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I see you've been to Florida.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
...just change the Australian drawl to a New Yawk or Bahstun accent.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
So I assume this was your home work Andy
?
Should I email Desi or Alister with this link
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by bazouki dave and the real tooty flutey
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Dave; I should point out that this is after my exam - and I'm not sure that I could have cite anyone's ideas anyway as I've no idea who anyone actually is! But I think they'd probably be rather amused by the ingenuity.
Ceolachan; there's nothing more annoying than arranging a set in a band with a tune that someone tells you is trad. Scottish, then discovering it's not traditional (nor is it Scottish) and you're going to be filling in PRS/MPCS sheets for twice as long!!
Someone hit the nail on the head - it doesn't state whether it means compositional style, performance style, playing style or what. I presume it was meant to be open ended in that way.
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Andy V
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
The bashturd! PRS/MPCS sheets ~ Whew!
~ and the composer is still alive and not of an understanding nature...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I've got the bit between my teeth now, I used to write essays once. Points taken, No Cause, but I stick to my remarks in general applied to the music of "these islands" as a whole; they certainly include Scottish mouth music, also - outside dance - military pipe music and Carolan, but I haven't extended them to song though I *know* it's important.
My idea, briefly, is that traditional music other than that accompanying song - to keep the subject from sprawling - has, across these islands, a fairly limited range of rhythms and bar-counts; has a usually diatonic scale structure (yes, lots of exceptions, usually departing in a very limited way from diatonic); and is based at any time on the playing of one or another melody from the player's repertoire, accompaniment being subservient to keeping the melody audible and recognisable throughout. (As these melodies - tunes - are of limited length, it is most usual that a succession of them get played.)
That's all just meant to be a note that trad in these islands operates within particular boundaries and conventions.
The style is what a player puts into his/her playing of these tunes to make them function best. Dance has been the raison d'etre of most of them, and its needs have dictated their standard rhythms and lengths. Other purposes are found, like the uses of bagpipes in the army, or playing music for people to tap their toes to,or (as with some of Carolan's or the Gow's tunes) music to mellow out to. Style is what a musician draws upon to give the people connected to him - and hopefully, him/herself - what they want, in a given situation.
i.e., style is called into being, originally, by purpose .
Take the rest from there - Morris styles, fiddle styles, local styles, session styles, the lot!...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
At least you can lay the blame for this question on someone else, eh?
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Oh, you meant MCPS-PRS didn't yuh?
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Often times Andy an open-ended question, of an 'essay' nature, is added to an exam to see if the student can reign in the expanse and bring themselves to focus on one possible aspect of the question. You could get real and just deal with one pub session you know or are aware of, or this website. You could then just deal with the repeating identifiers of the event, as it is just 'key elements' of a 'traditional style' you are asked to deal with. You could narrow it down further to just one person, or even to focusing on what you constitute as a musician involved in a traditon, or traditions, and style or styles.
So, the test in a question like this may be to see if you the student can focus, can be analytical in a precise way rather than blowing it wide open with a scatter gun...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
The people involved in and affected by it, for starters...
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
"MPCS".......don't tell 'em I called em' that......they'll be after me for plagarism
It's got to be one of the most faff-ish systems I've ever encountered - our mandolinist had to register as he's wrote a couple of the tunes we play. Bloody nightmare!
If anyone was interested how I answered it (I can't imagine they are, but supine) I dedicated half of it to fairly general and the other half to a comparison two fiddlers from the course (one Shetland, one Northumbrian) in terms of how they play "The Beeswing". The wonders of seen papers, of course, is that I got them to analyse their differences - I'll make an ethnomusicologist yet!!
# Posted on June 2nd 2007 by Andy V
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I'd love to read it... Wouldn't you just know...
The whole issue of the various species of PRS and unions is something else, and not one I can speak of civily. I understand the need for something to stand up for the rights of musicians and a decent wage, but like other organizations setting out to do good for this our passion and concern, their tools are dull and the results are too often clumsy and bruising, to downright lethal... On the tools side of the analogy, remember that things old chestnut about using a sledge hammer to crack a nut... Like all things political, these things too often tend to draw vested interests to their ranks, the ego-centric and the foolish, and what sometimes seems to me, the souless...
The key elements of traditional style, to try to add something on subject, is that it has roots and that they show...
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
"These islands" could be defined entirely geographically, presumably without upsetting anyone, by drawing a circumscribing polygon on a map of the globe.
Such a polygon could be defined by the lines joining the following points:
N50 W12
N62 W11.5
N62 E3
N51.75 E3
N50.25 E0 (the Meridian)
N50 W2
N49 W1.88
and back to N50 W12
This polygon includes the larger islands (Ireland and the England-Scotland/Wales landmass), the Channel Isles, the Isles of Scilly, Orkney and Shetland, the Isle of Man, and other islands off the coasts of Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland, but excludes the Faroes.
BTW, I did this exercise using Google Earth.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by lazyhound
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
no cause for alarm mentioned `canterrach` which I am not familiar with or can find in my small dictionary / Could he enlarge on the subject please ?
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by black
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I have learned that Goltrai (airs and graces), Geantrai (happy-dance tunes) and Suantrai (lullabies, sleepy time) are the archaic styles, but probably only Geantrai is appropriate for modern sessions. and this then is divided reels , jigs , hornpipes etc . Therefore one might conclude that most session music is a style that was suitable for dancing, but that would be a mistake.
My general impression, which is hardly justified by scholarship is that music in the south(of Eire) is more relaxed with no loss of passion, and in the north country it is more intensely manifest
even academic to a near vanishing point . not literally of course.
Just one persons view FWIW.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by windybaer
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
i haven't the time to read all the replies, so forgive me if its already been said, but i think that the oral part is the most defining characteristic. its this that causes a tune to have multiple names, and it allows for the formations of both regional and personal styles( regional being exemplified in donegal style fiddling or sligo style fiddling, and personal being the different variations used by each musician.) just my thoughts.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by rob_handel
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I'd add to rob's comment that it is practically always performed *without* sheet music, although it is often learned *from* sheet music.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by nicholas
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Yeah, No cause For Alarm did mention 'canterrach'. I thought this system was originally developed as a system of musical notation, so that the tunes could not only be memorised from the syllables used, but also written down, that is, transcribed.
What I didn't put two and two together on is, was this done because, if the pipes were banned at the time, this was a pretty well encrypted way of preserving the tunes for posterity and the time the pipes could be played again?
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Glad to see you mention Ceol Mor as it does not get as much air time as is deserved of ancient musical art form. With regards to an essay on trad music styles Ceol Mor would have to be assessed as an aside - a unique tradition. Caneterach did not come about as a result of the pipes being banned but as during the clan system of the Highlands (which dates back many centuries before the act of proscription) oral tradition was the norm. Music notation was a European invention. given the structure and patterns which occur in Pibroch it is impossible to convey its style via a standardised manuscript. canterach is still the best and most pure way to teach pibroch.
Im still not persuaded as to whether or not the pipes were actually banned in Scotland. This is a popular comment and helps give the Great Highland Bagpipe a defiant image but just imagine if they banned their playing who would have enforced it? the Black Watch? the Highlands were policed by bagpipe playing clansmen anyway
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by kings taxes
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
My understanding of Canterach (sp?) is that it is effectively an alternate form of notation. If you look in the museum in the National Piping Centre in Glasgow you can see books of tunes written out in Canterach rather than in classical manucript. It is certainly far less common now and pipers probably use manuscript more than most traditional musicians as, particularly when playing in the classical style there is a set way to play each tune and the notes and gracings are fairly prescriptive.
Sounds like you came up with a good idea for the paper Andy. I am sure it would make interesting reading. Tell Ross he plays too fast!
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Mostly G and D? Not to be confused with the rhythm elements, or the note elements.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by reenactor
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
I wonder if Pibroch originated as an imitation of older harp music. I gather the harp was well-developed and popular in Scotland long before the bagpipe developed into something like its present Highland form in the c15; and listening to a recently composed piece of Welsh harp music, which was all phrase sequences, no tune or rhythm to speak of, I felt I was listening to something - very listenable, I'd add - that could well have been whatever is the singular of goltrai or suantrai, at any rate a piece deliberately designed in the fairly remote past as mood music. The structure and function of pibroch seems comparable to this kind of harp music, though I've only heard little pibroch and a long time ago.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by nicholas
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Playing tunes from you heart not head always,
Listen to a local man or tapes, not records cd's etc,and ear playing not sight playing pref-
jim,,
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by FIDDLE4
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Ancestry...and not necessarily blood lines in the biological sense...but a kind of genetics in the metaphoric sense...
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
nicholas
you are correct in your observations. it is commonly accepted that clarsach music was the precursor to pibroch of the west highlands. however the ornamentation - crunluath, taorluath, a-mach etc are unique to the highland bagpipe.
i look forward to hearing some welsh harp music. can you direct me to some on the internet?
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by kings taxes
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Five players of the triple harp:
Rhiain Bebb
Robin Huw Bowen
Huw Roberts
Wynn Thomas
Steffan Thomas
etc...
There is no single harp tradition (or alive language) that hasn't been affected and changed by the passing of history...but I imagine, as always, there are those that would want to argue otherwise...
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: What do you think are the "key elements of traditional style?
Ah. Rhes Ganol. I haven't heard them, though have been an admirer of Robin Huw Bowen's playing for a very long time.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by benhall.1