One thing I've always found really strange (and I don't know if this applies to the rest of North America) is how the whistle, the pipes and flute never really made it over from Ireland to Newfoundland which is mostly (especially on the Eastern part of the island) settled by Irish immigrants. There's always been, it seems, more fiddle and box players than anyone's known what to do with, but what ever happened to the whistles, pipes and flutes? Any ideas??
Danny, sorry that was so short, go visit the university in St. Johns and meet some of the folk there and start asking questions. The whistle and woodwinds were a part of the Canadian Maritimes, but mostly only survive in 'accounts', except as they have been reintroduced. Some of the older musicians too would have known about it... So, if you've any in their 90s or older, stop in and ask. Visiting an old peoples home is not a bad way to hear more, even if they aren't old enough to remember ~ nowadays anyway...
I suppose flute players in Ireland and for that matter Irish musicians living in England / Scotland / Wales were able to find plenty of simple-system flutes put on the market by players of classical music who had used them and no longer wanted them. Simple-system flutes were certainly manufactured in London; I don't know about the rest of Britain or Ireland, but I would imagine very possibly. So you wouldn't have to travel terribly far, in global terms anyway, to find one in Britain or Ireland.
Newfoundland on the other hand seems a terribly long way from anywhere, especially (historically, anyhow) from any city with a large number of people playing classical music to whatever level and with an ongoing market of surplus instruments. The same applies to Shetland. I had always wondered why Shetland music was (in the past, anyway) almost entirely monopolised by the fiddle - well, that, it occurs to me, is one reason.
We had mutual acquaintances who had some history here, with the whistle and the Maritimes, so you could try dropping a line to Paul Cranford, though he'll be busy what with a wedding in the planning, but he's another good one to chat about such things with, an informed, passionate and generous soul ~
Plus, just remembered, since you mentioned pipes too ~ the best damned highland bagpipe music my heart has ever been moved by was from those realms, because it was about dance not piob mhor, and I believe Paul has at least one recording of one of those great old traveling pipers...
This is something I have wondered about also, and I look forward to hearing what people have to say.
Could the lack of whistles in America have something to do with the fact that the first waves of Irish and Scottish (or Scots Irish) immigration (which led to the settling of the Appalachian region) in the pre-Revolution days happened in the pre-whistle era? After all, tin whistles did not become common until the early 19th century.
Here in New England, I have read that the fife was once the most popular instrument around, but other than in marching units, it has almost entirely died out. Perhaps it is because of the same reason the highland pipes is largely used as a marching instrument--it is just too piercing for indoor use. In fact, most of the ITM flute players I know got their start in fife bands.
I suspect the lack of a whistle and flute tradition amongst the Newfoundland Irish may be due to the fact that Irish immigration to Newfoundland virtually stopped after about 1840, prior to either the whistle or flute gaining their current level of popularity as traditional music instruments in Ireland. The whistle as we know it today only came into being after 1840 (Clarke’s started up in 1843) and the flute only came into it’s own as a traditional instrument in the late 1800’s. As for the u-pipes, they certainly were around prior to 1840, but many sources say they were not as widely played then they are today. So perhaps not enough pipers ever made their way across to create the “critical mass” needed to sustain the tradition.
Another factor may be the fact that almost all Irish immigrants to Newfoundland came from the Southeast (historians estimate that about 90% originated from within a 30 mile radius around the port of Waterford). I don’t know if there was a strong piping tradition in that area in the 18th and early 19th century or not. If not, the chances of a piping tradition developing in Newfoundland would be slim.
Whistles in the West
Whistles in the West
One thing I've always found really strange (and I don't know if this applies to the rest of North America) is how the whistle, the pipes and flute never really made it over from Ireland to Newfoundland which is mostly (especially on the Eastern part of the island) settled by Irish immigrants. There's always been, it seems, more fiddle and box players than anyone's known what to do with, but what ever happened to the whistles, pipes and flutes? Any ideas??
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by dannym
Re: Whistles in the West
Dig a little deeper...
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Whistles in the West
Danny, sorry that was so short, go visit the university in St. Johns and meet some of the folk there and start asking questions. The whistle and woodwinds were a part of the Canadian Maritimes, but mostly only survive in 'accounts', except as they have been reintroduced. Some of the older musicians too would have known about it... So, if you've any in their 90s or older, stop in and ask. Visiting an old peoples home is not a bad way to hear more, even if they aren't old enough to remember ~ nowadays anyway...
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Whistles in the West
I suppose flute players in Ireland and for that matter Irish musicians living in England / Scotland / Wales were able to find plenty of simple-system flutes put on the market by players of classical music who had used them and no longer wanted them. Simple-system flutes were certainly manufactured in London; I don't know about the rest of Britain or Ireland, but I would imagine very possibly. So you wouldn't have to travel terribly far, in global terms anyway, to find one in Britain or Ireland.
Newfoundland on the other hand seems a terribly long way from anywhere, especially (historically, anyhow) from any city with a large number of people playing classical music to whatever level and with an ongoing market of surplus instruments. The same applies to Shetland. I had always wondered why Shetland music was (in the past, anyway) almost entirely monopolised by the fiddle - well, that, it occurs to me, is one reason.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Whistles in the West
If Ceolachan is right, disregard what I've written above as waffle.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Whistles in the West
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Whistles in the West
We had mutual acquaintances who had some history here, with the whistle and the Maritimes, so you could try dropping a line to Paul Cranford, though he'll be busy what with a wedding in the planning, but he's another good one to chat about such things with, an informed, passionate and generous soul ~
http://www.cranfordpub.com/
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Whistles in the West
Plus, just remembered, since you mentioned pipes too ~ the best damned highland bagpipe music my heart has ever been moved by was from those realms, because it was about dance not piob mhor, and I believe Paul has at least one recording of one of those great old traveling pipers...
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Whistles in the West
I woudl assume that depending when the Irish migrated to Newfoundland (post famine), uilleann pipes were proably used for heating rather than playing.
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by I_Fel
Re: Whistles in the West
This is something I have wondered about also, and I look forward to hearing what people have to say.
Could the lack of whistles in America have something to do with the fact that the first waves of Irish and Scottish (or Scots Irish) immigration (which led to the settling of the Appalachian region) in the pre-Revolution days happened in the pre-whistle era? After all, tin whistles did not become common until the early 19th century.
Here in New England, I have read that the fife was once the most popular instrument around, but other than in marching units, it has almost entirely died out. Perhaps it is because of the same reason the highland pipes is largely used as a marching instrument--it is just too piercing for indoor use. In fact, most of the ITM flute players I know got their start in fife bands.
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Whistles in the West
I suspect the lack of a whistle and flute tradition amongst the Newfoundland Irish may be due to the fact that Irish immigration to Newfoundland virtually stopped after about 1840, prior to either the whistle or flute gaining their current level of popularity as traditional music instruments in Ireland. The whistle as we know it today only came into being after 1840 (Clarke’s started up in 1843) and the flute only came into it’s own as a traditional instrument in the late 1800’s. As for the u-pipes, they certainly were around prior to 1840, but many sources say they were not as widely played then they are today. So perhaps not enough pipers ever made their way across to create the “critical mass” needed to sustain the tradition.
Another factor may be the fact that almost all Irish immigrants to Newfoundland came from the Southeast (historians estimate that about 90% originated from within a 30 mile radius around the port of Waterford). I don’t know if there was a strong piping tradition in that area in the 18th and early 19th century or not. If not, the chances of a piping tradition developing in Newfoundland would be slim.
cheers,
Barnesy
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by Barnesy