Hi Lads, I've just taken delivery of a Little Wonder (17 fret) and am in the process of setting it up. As a first step I thought I'd tune it and I've measured to the 12th fret to place the bridge. I've tuned to GDAE but it sounds VERY ill. The original tuners are functioning but diffficult, the slightest touch makes a big difference.
Help Please!
It's a beautiful example from the 1920s and I'd love to get it right.
It would help if you'd say exactly how the illness manifests itself. I guess that intonation on the G string is the biggest problem, coupled with a flabby sound on wound strings.
First, check string gauges - tricky on an old shortscale banjo as heavier gauges above 12/18/28/38 put a lot of stress on old necks IMHO. I don't think that heavier strings than 12/38 sound any better anyway.
Also look at head tension and tailpiece elevation - risk running the head up a bit if it isn't already taut - and if the tailpiece is adjustable, lower it toward the head if it's not down already.
Attention to playing technique can help to some extent.
And finally, be prepared to accept that it's never going to sound like a 19 fret archtop Mastertone - it's the price you have to pay for shortscales.
You would want to take one of the friction tuners off and look at the hole diameter to see if you could find new tuners that were at the size to allow you to restore to the originals, but in general, I have found that most of the 20's banjos had real narrow shafts. BTW, if you do need to enlarge the holes, use a reamer, NOT a drill. It is pretty easy to get holes the right size with a reamer, but many a banjo headstock has been ruined with a drill.
As far as setting your bridge position, it is very rarely going to be exactly double the distance of the 12th fret. If the action is high, that makes it worse, because you have to bend the string further to get it to the fretboard, which will make it sharper. (Bridges on mandolins and bouzoukis are often "compensated" because of the different core wire diameters for this reason). The easy way to find the proper bridge location is to compare the harmonic notes at the 12th fret with the fretted note at the 12th fret for each of the strings. You might find that intonation is best with the bass end of the bridge a bit further back than the treble end... If you change string gauges or the head tension, you will probably need to adjust the bridge location a bit. Once you get used to doing it, you can position a bridge in about 20 seconds
As far as the general setup, millionyears' suggestions for string gauges is good. The short scale Orpheum I sold recently sounded good with 12/20/28/38 Stainless Steel (with a wound A string).
If the banjo sounds too "plunky" (which the open-back Vegas tend to), you can try tightening the head a bit. I tighten a head by starting it off loose, and tightening until I get to the point where it is too ringy with no punch, then I back the tension off a bit.
The nice thing about banjos is that there are so many different things to tweak that can change the sound. Strings, head, tension, tailpiece, down pressure, and bridge are all easy to tweak.
We discussed this before, but there is a lot to do to set up a newly acquired banjo. The main things that are wrong with them are the head and intonation. In the case of the Little Wonder, you can change the string gages around some. I have done the math and there should be no problems with a 42-13 set of strings on this banjo (that's what I have on my Little Wonder.)
It takes a while to get everything right. What kind of head does it have on it now? A skin head is the most difficult to use but (in my opinion, since I have one on my LW) is the best sounding when all the variables are lined up. I agree with getting a new set of tuners, the LW is not a collectable banjo so that kind of change will not destroy the value, only enhance the playability.
As for sending it to Tom Cussen, I agree that he is the best setup person in all of Ireland so if you are frustrated after doing the usual things, send it or bring it (more fun) to him
Lads, Thanks - Am just back from a Rugby meeting!
Playing Chords with the position near where the 12th fret said it should be made them sound like a cat!!! I've moved it over an inch towards the tailpiece before I got anything that sounded remotely musical...
Will digest everything - I've been over Mike Keyes 'Setting up a banjo' several times so Maybe I'm doing something very simple very wrong.
Goodnight All
Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
Hi Lads, I've just taken delivery of a Little Wonder (17 fret) and am in the process of setting it up. As a first step I thought I'd tune it and I've measured to the 12th fret to place the bridge. I've tuned to GDAE but it sounds VERY ill. The original tuners are functioning but diffficult, the slightest touch makes a big difference.
Help Please!
It's a beautiful example from the 1920s and I'd love to get it right.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by John B
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
It would help if you'd say exactly how the illness manifests itself. I guess that intonation on the G string is the biggest problem, coupled with a flabby sound on wound strings.
First, check string gauges - tricky on an old shortscale banjo as heavier gauges above 12/18/28/38 put a lot of stress on old necks IMHO. I don't think that heavier strings than 12/38 sound any better anyway.
Also look at head tension and tailpiece elevation - risk running the head up a bit if it isn't already taut - and if the tailpiece is adjustable, lower it toward the head if it's not down already.
Attention to playing technique can help to some extent.
And finally, be prepared to accept that it's never going to sound like a 19 fret archtop Mastertone - it's the price you have to pay for shortscales.
Good luck.
MYBC
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
take it to Tom Cussen or Dave Boyle and go to bed and sleep peacefully knowing that in a few days your Litle Wonder will have a new lease of life!
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by banjoian
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
You might consider putting modern tuners on it. For the vintage banjos, I like to use the small shaft tuners, like these German ones: http://www.fqms.com/German_Manufactured_C1872.cfm
You would want to take one of the friction tuners off and look at the hole diameter to see if you could find new tuners that were at the size to allow you to restore to the originals, but in general, I have found that most of the 20's banjos had real narrow shafts. BTW, if you do need to enlarge the holes, use a reamer, NOT a drill. It is pretty easy to get holes the right size with a reamer, but many a banjo headstock has been ruined with a drill.
As far as setting your bridge position, it is very rarely going to be exactly double the distance of the 12th fret. If the action is high, that makes it worse, because you have to bend the string further to get it to the fretboard, which will make it sharper. (Bridges on mandolins and bouzoukis are often "compensated" because of the different core wire diameters for this reason). The easy way to find the proper bridge location is to compare the harmonic notes at the 12th fret with the fretted note at the 12th fret for each of the strings. You might find that intonation is best with the bass end of the bridge a bit further back than the treble end... If you change string gauges or the head tension, you will probably need to adjust the bridge location a bit. Once you get used to doing it, you can position a bridge in about 20 seconds
As far as the general setup, millionyears' suggestions for string gauges is good. The short scale Orpheum I sold recently sounded good with 12/20/28/38 Stainless Steel (with a wound A string).
If the banjo sounds too "plunky" (which the open-back Vegas tend to), you can try tightening the head a bit. I tighten a head by starting it off loose, and tightening until I get to the point where it is too ringy with no punch, then I back the tension off a bit.
The nice thing about banjos is that there are so many different things to tweak that can change the sound. Strings, head, tension, tailpiece, down pressure, and bridge are all easy to tweak.
Good luck with it!
Pete
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
Heh, or just listen to banjoian and take it up to Clarenbridge. They can do new tuning pegs and a great setup for you!
Pete
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
Hey John,
Congratulations on the purchase!
We discussed this before, but there is a lot to do to set up a newly acquired banjo. The main things that are wrong with them are the head and intonation. In the case of the Little Wonder, you can change the string gages around some. I have done the math and there should be no problems with a 42-13 set of strings on this banjo (that's what I have on my Little Wonder.)
Here is a short course in setup: http://www.mikekeyes.com/tune-upyourbanjo
It takes a while to get everything right. What kind of head does it have on it now? A skin head is the most difficult to use but (in my opinion, since I have one on my LW) is the best sounding when all the variables are lined up. I agree with getting a new set of tuners, the LW is not a collectable banjo so that kind of change will not destroy the value, only enhance the playability.
As for sending it to Tom Cussen, I agree that he is the best setup person in all of Ireland so if you are frustrated after doing the usual things, send it or bring it (more fun) to him
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
Lads, Thanks - Am just back from a Rugby meeting!
Playing Chords with the position near where the 12th fret said it should be made them sound like a cat!!! I've moved it over an inch towards the tailpiece before I got anything that sounded remotely musical...
Will digest everything - I've been over Mike Keyes 'Setting up a banjo' several times so Maybe I'm doing something very simple very wrong.
Goodnight All
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by John B
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
I should have said that the action is beautifully low.
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by John B
Re: Setting up a Vega Little Wonder
Sounds like your intonation is off. Do the 12th fret harmonic and the 12th fret note agree?
Funny, I am just going to the Rugby meeting (Fond du Lac Stoutmen, I am a selector.)
MIke Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by mikeyes