Folks,
Regarding the configurable tempo at which the ABC player plays jigs/reels, what tempo would be classed as normal or a good indication that the tune is played at the right speed. I am practicing most of my tunes (when I know the tune well) at a tempo of about 180/190, anything faster than that I find it hard to keep up.
Jackeen, the tune is played at the right speed when it swings, is pleasant to listen and makes you want to dance. If you have a choice between playing too fast and too slow, it's better to play too slow.
I have a good friend who is the organist at one of the cathedrals in Denver. One of the things he once told me that I've never forgotten is that the "right" speed for any piece of music is the speed that you play it really well.
Jackeen - also depends on where you're going to play. If you're playing for dances, there seems to be a particular tempo (pretty quick) but I don't know exactly what it is. (Anyone else here who plays for dances?) If you're playing for amusement, for sessions, or in a band, it's best to mix it up for variety. Sometimes a tune that everybody always tears through sounds fantastic slowed down. You're going to get a lot of responses that there IS no "normal" tempo. The folks who wrote these things didn't have metronomes.
Some tunes seem to want to be played at a certain tempo, other tunes seem more tolerant of variation in speed and yet others seem to have several very separated tempo "homes".
In our sessions here in Manchester we play a great Reel "The Ships Are Sailing" starting very slow and then at the more usual speed.
There is a problem when quoting bpm, when I program a Reel into my sequencer in 4/4 time most of them work best around 200 bpm not 100 bpm. This is due to the fact that reels are written in common time with a line through it which actually means 2/4, so I suppose the lower figure is more correct.
None of this changes the actual speed of the tune just way we express it.
When playing for dancing tempo is VERY important, most dances operate within a quite narrow range of tempi, so find the speed of the dance first and find a tunes that are "happy" at this speed.
Fortunately a lot of this work has already been done as many dances have standard tunes attached to them.
Larry Lynch, in his book "Set Dances of Ireland" gives a table setting out how speeds have changed over the years: reels: (then) 98-116 (now) 113-132 polkas: (then) 102-130 (now) 127-159 jigs: (then) 98-125 (now) 125-159 hornpipes: (then) 72-104 (now) 93-117. The increase in speed in modern times arises out of changes in the way in which people dance. "Then", a lot of set dancing was done in private houses, usually kitchens, which explains a lot of the terminology. In those days, dancing was less energetic in that the dancers tended to keep their feet on the ground a lot more, and there was little "battering". This was probably because people had arduous manual jobs and dancing was a genuine relaxation and not an athletic event. Speeds have increased and techniques have changed in modern times to meet the universal demand for speed, fuelled by competition dancing. And most dancers today don't have the heavy manual jobs that their forebears often had.
It is also a fact that if you play rhythmically with accuracy you can give the impression of playing at a faster tempo than you actually are. A "secret" well known to the professional musician.
Thanks to all who replied.
PP, I know the Ships Are Sailing and enjoy playing it but I tried to play along to the Na Connerys Celtic Session CD - Casey's Reel / Ships Are Sailing / Crossing the Shannon Set and I find this set just a little to fast for my ability on the banjo. Have you ever played to it.
Hi Jackeen.
I'm not familiar with that CD, so I don't no if I could keep up with it.
One thing I've learnt about playing fast is the longer you play slowly the easier it is to play fast.
All the best PP
Playing a lot of notes very fast can be quite impressive to an audience BUT if there is no semblance of feeling then there is little music being produced. Joanie Madden can play fast but there is always the feeling, pulse and sensitivity of a good musician. If you can't fit the ornamentation in, then slow down and enjoy all of the "sound of music"!
I'm afraid playing notes very fast is usually more impressive to the player than to the audience. Unless, of course, you're a flute player. Then every flute player knows that if he or she plays really fast, nobody will notice their mistakes!
Part of the problem of tempos lies in what unit the program uses as a basis. Some require a specified unit,some use the default note length. I playback tunes with ABCMus and it seems to half the nominal measure for the tempo: 1/2note for reels and hornpipes, 3/8 notes for jigs and slides, 1/4 note for polkas. This equates, for me to the way most people would tap their foot while playing, twice per measure. All that said reels seem do well between 100 and 115, ,jigs from 130 to 160, etc.The idea is what you want put across. I don't anybody who sits in a session with a metronome (isn't that an elf of some sort that live in the city?) , but I've heard the tongue -in-cheek comment that some tune or other might be able to be played faster. Since I play for dancers alot I tend to play on the perk side of moderation, but avoid the hypersonic limits. My basic idea is that this is dance music and if it is too fast or too slow to danced to its probably not right. If you want speed for its own sake I'd suggest a transition to Bluegrass, for those who want slow listening tunes play airs and songs.The balance lies in what the appropriate use of the tune is.
ABC tune tempo
ABC tune tempo
Folks,
Regarding the configurable tempo at which the ABC player plays jigs/reels, what tempo would be classed as normal or a good indication that the tune is played at the right speed. I am practicing most of my tunes (when I know the tune well) at a tempo of about 180/190, anything faster than that I find it hard to keep up.
Thanks.
# Posted on February 10th 2003 by Jackeen
Re: ABC tune tempo
Jackeen, the tune is played at the right speed when it swings, is pleasant to listen and makes you want to dance. If you have a choice between playing too fast and too slow, it's better to play too slow.
# Posted on February 10th 2003 by glauber
Re: ABC tune tempo
I have a good friend who is the organist at one of the cathedrals in Denver. One of the things he once told me that I've never forgotten is that the "right" speed for any piece of music is the speed that you play it really well.
Zina
# Posted on February 10th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: ABC tune tempo
Jackeen - also depends on where you're going to play. If you're playing for dances, there seems to be a particular tempo (pretty quick) but I don't know exactly what it is. (Anyone else here who plays for dances?) If you're playing for amusement, for sessions, or in a band, it's best to mix it up for variety. Sometimes a tune that everybody always tears through sounds fantastic slowed down. You're going to get a lot of responses that there IS no "normal" tempo. The folks who wrote these things didn't have metronomes.
Kerri
# Posted on February 10th 2003 by Kerri Brown
Re: ABC tune tempo
The tempo of the reels depends from the style.
Generally speaking, in Donegal the play reels at 120 b.p.m. and more, and in Clare at 106 to 112 b.p.m.
# Posted on February 10th 2003 by gian marco
Re: ABC tune tempo
Some tunes seem to want to be played at a certain tempo, other tunes seem more tolerant of variation in speed and yet others seem to have several very separated tempo "homes".
In our sessions here in Manchester we play a great Reel "The Ships Are Sailing" starting very slow and then at the more usual speed.
There is a problem when quoting bpm, when I program a Reel into my sequencer in 4/4 time most of them work best around 200 bpm not 100 bpm. This is due to the fact that reels are written in common time with a line through it which actually means 2/4, so I suppose the lower figure is more correct.
None of this changes the actual speed of the tune just way we express it.
When playing for dancing tempo is VERY important, most dances operate within a quite narrow range of tempi, so find the speed of the dance first and find a tunes that are "happy" at this speed.
Fortunately a lot of this work has already been done as many dances have standard tunes attached to them.
All the best PP
# Posted on February 11th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: ABC tune tempo
Larry Lynch, in his book "Set Dances of Ireland" gives a table setting out how speeds have changed over the years: reels: (then) 98-116 (now) 113-132 polkas: (then) 102-130 (now) 127-159 jigs: (then) 98-125 (now) 125-159 hornpipes: (then) 72-104 (now) 93-117. The increase in speed in modern times arises out of changes in the way in which people dance. "Then", a lot of set dancing was done in private houses, usually kitchens, which explains a lot of the terminology. In those days, dancing was less energetic in that the dancers tended to keep their feet on the ground a lot more, and there was little "battering". This was probably because people had arduous manual jobs and dancing was a genuine relaxation and not an athletic event. Speeds have increased and techniques have changed in modern times to meet the universal demand for speed, fuelled by competition dancing. And most dancers today don't have the heavy manual jobs that their forebears often had.
It is also a fact that if you play rhythmically with accuracy you can give the impression of playing at a faster tempo than you actually are. A "secret" well known to the professional musician.
# Posted on February 11th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: ABC tune tempo
Thanks to all who replied.
PP, I know the Ships Are Sailing and enjoy playing it but I tried to play along to the Na Connerys Celtic Session CD - Casey's Reel / Ships Are Sailing / Crossing the Shannon Set and I find this set just a little to fast for my ability on the banjo. Have you ever played to it.
# Posted on February 11th 2003 by Jackeen
Re: ABC tune tempo
Hi Jackeen.
I'm not familiar with that CD, so I don't no if I could keep up with it.
One thing I've learnt about playing fast is the longer you play slowly the easier it is to play fast.
All the best PP
# Posted on February 14th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: ABC tune tempo
Playing a lot of notes very fast can be quite impressive to an audience BUT if there is no semblance of feeling then there is little music being produced. Joanie Madden can play fast but there is always the feeling, pulse and sensitivity of a good musician. If you can't fit the ornamentation in, then slow down and enjoy all of the "sound of music"!
# Posted on February 16th 2003 by whistlerhm
Playing notes very fast
I'm afraid playing notes very fast is usually more impressive to the player than to the audience. Unless, of course, you're a flute player. Then every flute player knows that if he or she plays really fast, nobody will notice their mistakes!
# Posted on February 16th 2003 by glauber
Re: ABC tune tempo
Part of the problem of tempos lies in what unit the program uses as a basis. Some require a specified unit,some use the default note length. I playback tunes with ABCMus and it seems to half the nominal measure for the tempo: 1/2note for reels and hornpipes, 3/8 notes for jigs and slides, 1/4 note for polkas. This equates, for me to the way most people would tap their foot while playing, twice per measure. All that said reels seem do well between 100 and 115, ,jigs from 130 to 160, etc.The idea is what you want put across. I don't anybody who sits in a session with a metronome (isn't that an elf of some sort that live in the city?) , but I've heard the tongue -in-cheek comment that some tune or other might be able to be played faster. Since I play for dancers alot I tend to play on the perk side of moderation, but avoid the hypersonic limits. My basic idea is that this is dance music and if it is too fast or too slow to danced to its probably not right. If you want speed for its own sake I'd suggest a transition to Bluegrass, for those who want slow listening tunes play airs and songs.The balance lies in what the appropriate use of the tune is.
# Posted on February 17th 2003 by AOG