I am playing a reel, I come up against two notes the same let's say two A notes, what do you do play a double cut an A and a D, or a single cut , Just the D?
Thanks for all your help, you guys are extremely helpful
It depends which A you're playing - A, A or a. It also depends how long each note is you're talking about. It also depends on where in the tune it appears. It also depends on what instrument you're playing. It also depends on individual style. It also depends on who you're playing with at the time. It also depends on your mood.
OK let's have another go, I'm not playing with anyone in a session I am practicing in my kitchen on my fiddle...I am playing the open of Down the Broom...the 2nd and third note are the same an A...should I cut? Should I double cut or should I just play two bows one for each A?
I really don't understand this double cut business ... But it's porbably me being stupid.
Personally I would use two bows, one for each A. But that's just me. And, on another day, I wouldn't play it like that at all ... for instance, I might linger a bit longer on the E ... maybe even roll it a bit ... then again, sometimes I would cut between the two As ... or even sort of cran them ... maybe even leaving out the G at the end of the bar ...
hmmm ... it's probably a better tune than I thought it was ...
You're not stupid, benhall. Double cuts are tough. I've had them explained to me for 6 months and I know how they're supposed to work and I still can't do them well. But they sound fantastic when you do!
Shylock, I don't think you would have time for a double cut where you're thinking it would go. A single cut, maybe, if you're not changing bow direction, to separate the notes. Or you could just single bow it. Do you know any other fiddlers who can show you how they might do it?
i'd have to hear the phrasing to make a final pronouncement but in general i would eliminate the cut in that situation entirely. what would i do? slur into the first note with emphasis and tongue the second. works for me. and i use cuts regularly, but never ever to seperate two of the same notes. tonguing is cleaner.
if you are playing something other than a flute or whistle, then disregard this "advice"
you can of course if you want, matt. but i think it sounds sloppy. there is a place for cuts, but generally not to separate notes like that. it's a style/preference thing.
Hmmm...most fluters use cuts to separate notes of the same pitch--there just aren't many other options if you want to hear two distinct notes of the same pitch. Yes, a bit of tongue can do it, but that's done less often than a cut or tap with the finger in Irish trad. Some players use glottal stops for this purpose, too, but I don't wanna hear what that would sound like in the tune Kenny cites above....
A cut or double cut?
A cut or double cut?
I am playing a reel, I come up against two notes the same let's say two A notes, what do you do play a double cut an A and a D, or a single cut , Just the D?
Thanks for all your help, you guys are extremely helpful
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: A cut or double cut?
It depends which A you're playing - A, A or a. It also depends how long each note is you're talking about. It also depends on where in the tune it appears. It also depends on what instrument you're playing. It also depends on individual style. It also depends on who you're playing with at the time. It also depends on your mood.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: A cut or double cut?
Well, well done for sorting that out for us, Dow.
Personally, I didn't understand the question ...
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: A cut or double cut?
OK let's have another go, I'm not playing with anyone in a session I am practicing in my kitchen on my fiddle...I am playing the open of Down the Broom...the 2nd and third note are the same an A...should I cut? Should I double cut or should I just play two bows one for each A?
Thanks again
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: A cut or double cut?
I would cut the second A. I'd also slur the first two notes. Thanks for mentioning this tune; I didn't know it. It's a good one.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: A cut or double cut?
I really don't understand this double cut business ... But it's porbably me being stupid.
Personally I would use two bows, one for each A. But that's just me. And, on another day, I wouldn't play it like that at all ... for instance, I might linger a bit longer on the E ... maybe even roll it a bit ... then again, sometimes I would cut between the two As ... or even sort of cran them ... maybe even leaving out the G at the end of the bar ...
hmmm ... it's probably a better tune than I thought it was ...
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: A cut or double cut?
You're not stupid, benhall. Double cuts are tough. I've had them explained to me for 6 months and I know how they're supposed to work and I still can't do them well. But they sound fantastic when you do!
Shylock, I don't think you would have time for a double cut where you're thinking it would go. A single cut, maybe, if you're not changing bow direction, to separate the notes. Or you could just single bow it. Do you know any other fiddlers who can show you how they might do it?
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by kennedy
Re: A cut or double cut?
ooh, try listening to Paddy Killoran play it---sounds like he plays a trable there---(oh if could ever play 1/4 that well ever!):
http://tedmcgraw.com/mp3/KilloranBroom.mp3
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by kennedy
Re: A cut or double cut?
i'd have to hear the phrasing to make a final pronouncement but in general i would eliminate the cut in that situation entirely. what would i do? slur into the first note with emphasis and tongue the second. works for me. and i use cuts regularly, but never ever to seperate two of the same notes. tonguing is cleaner.
if you are playing something other than a flute or whistle, then disregard this "advice"
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Brendan
Re: A cut or double cut?
no, come on Brendan, let him try tonguing the fiddle
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Bren
Re: A cut or double cut?
You mean you don't, Bren?
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: A cut or double cut?
Here are some options for playing that opening phrase, off the top of my head. Wherever I use the / mark means a bowed triplet.
You could take Killoran's approach and do a bowed triplet on the A:
EA A/A/A A2 Bd|e~g3 egdc|
Or do a variation on that:
EA B/A/G ABcd|e~g3 egdc|
Or stick to the basic line, single bowing each note of the first bar:
EAAG A2 Bd|e~g3 egdc|
Or hang on the E:
D-E2 AG A2 Bd|e~g3 egdc|
Or drop the E all together:
cAGB A2 Bd|e~g3 egdc|
Or use your pinkie to slide into a doublestop on the A:
[A2A2] AG A2 B/c/d|e~g3 egdc|
Or treat the melody as a scale pattern :
EAGB AcBd|e~g3 egdc|
Or do a cut on the A with the ring finger:
EA{d}AG A2 Bd|e~g3 egdc|
Or do an open string roll or cran on the A:
~A3G A/A/A Bd|e~g3 egdc|
Or flirt with bluegrass:
[E3A3}[GA] [[A2A2] [BA][dA]|[eA][~g3A3] [eA][gA]dc|
and so on...
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: A cut or double cut?
Why wouldn't you separate two of the same notes with a cut, Brendan?
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Matt_Celta
Re: A cut or double cut?
you can of course if you want, matt. but i think it sounds sloppy. there is a place for cuts, but generally not to separate notes like that. it's a style/preference thing.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Brendan
Re: A cut or double cut?
So how would you separate the notes in this, Brendan ?
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/7079
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Kenny
Re: A cut or double cut?
Hmmm...most fluters use cuts to separate notes of the same pitch--there just aren't many other options if you want to hear two distinct notes of the same pitch. Yes, a bit of tongue can do it, but that's done less often than a cut or tap with the finger in Irish trad. Some players use glottal stops for this purpose, too, but I don't wanna hear what that would sound like in the tune Kenny cites above....
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: A cut or double cut?
The first cut is the deepest.
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by BowHand