Hi, I play banjo and mandola. I ve been playing for a few years now so im not a beginner but I do have a problem. When I play reels, inparticular when I play them fast, my right arm gets tense and It makes me unable to maintain speed for long periods. This problem is really annoying me as i see other players do not have the same problem. In addition, im uncertain if I have the correct positioning for my right hand. I really hope you guys could help me out thanks.
sebs , i had the same problem , with pain , from the guitar.
i went to a physio who helped me with my posture, which was a major cause of it.
i would suggest you do the same, and she gave me some exercises too , as physios are prone to do!
I used to play mandolin. I gave up because it was making the pads on the fingers of my left hand too coarse for fiddle playing.
I used to get my right arm stiffening up sometimes too when playing fast. I found it was sorted out by the good old technique of going back to the drawing board and practising really slowly.
The trick, btw, is to play the piece over and over very slowly and not to try to play it at speed AT ALL whilst practising. Works a treat.
I THink it has a lot to do with technique I used to have it when I placed one or two fingers on the soundboard, you should practice palying with these held in and just the plectrum fingers showing.
It defintiely helps and slow down until you know the tune inside out..
And try and keep relaxed! I found when I started playing mando (after playing fiddle for some years), my right arm got very tense - real death grip on the plec. I had to play slowly and concentrate on keeping that arm and hand relaxed.
Its not that easy to relax when a reel is going extremely fast, its very difficult, but is the best thing perhaps to start from scratch and play really slow and hold the plec loosely? I usually put my baby finger on the banjo skin or the soundboard when playing is this also a downfall?Its just I was advised this by a banjo player?
If you get that little finger up and off the skin your hand will be looser in general, it takes some practice but keep that up and down movement going and you will finally get it going nicely
I used to have that problem as well, and for me trick was learning that playing faster doesn't mean playing harder. The natural way to try to play faster is to tense up and control the right hand movement more aggressively.
But I've found that working on a better technique is useful. On banjo especially, you want to compact the motion of your right hand. The instrument is loud enough on its own, you don't need to play it hard. That's a little bit more difficult on the double stringed instruments because you need to pick through the strings more, the motion has to be a bit bigger. So when I play tunes on my zouk, I find that my hand gets tired more quickly. But on banjo, we've been known to play the never-ending reel sets that last up to a half hour at a pretty screaming pace, and I can make it through without too much trouble. (There are times when I need to force myself to relax a bit after we've been playing for a while and I start getting tired).
Another thing that I ought to mention is a nice hand rhythm. I always pick reels with a solid down-up-down-up motion, and never "cheat" and pick the "wrong" direction to do a string crossing. That reciprocal motion helps you stay relaxed, because you never have to stop you hand in mid-stroke to move the other direction. Triplets are compact, and operate as one single motion (as opposed to three). So I tighten up my wrist slightly to do a triplet, but it doesn't interrupt my hand rhythm.
One last thought. It wasn't until fairly recently that I made the separation between playing tunes on banjo and zouk. I used to play them basically the same, which meant that I was playing the banjo way too hard. My recommendation would be to work on your banjo technique until you get that nice and relaxed, then you can apply some of that relaxed technique to playing the mandola.
The longer you play, the easier it is to become relaxed. If you watch Kieran Hanrahan, or someone of that caliber play, they look so relaxed, and seem to be exerting almost no effort.
Not sure if you're still checking this post, but...
I sympathize; I have the same problem. This is good advice about practicing slow, gradually building speed etc, I like using a metronome for that too.
I've got some other things I've been trying too though. One idea is experimenting with different picking techniques. There are lots and lots of weird ways of going at the pick and string out there. It's tremedously hard to describe them without pictures.
There's that "circle picking" thing, where the thumb and index finger move in and out while the wrist moves -sort of- up and down, so that the pick goes around the string in a circle. I've messed around with this one, and you can get going pretty fast with less effort. But it's kind of unreliable, and it seems tougher to do triplets UDU, which I like to be able to throw in now and then, this way. Anyway, that's on the back burner for me for now.
I have something I've been trying, and I hesitate to share it, because I only came up with it the other day, and I'm not sure if I'm going to switch to it. But it seems to induce less tension for me so far. It's a deviation from what I consider to be the "standard" picking technique, which is as follows. You hold the pick with the thumb and index finger, with the middle finger behind the index for support. Fingers 3 and 4 are not planted on the head. The palm, and maybe another point on the wrist, rests lightly on something, on the strings behind the bridge, maybe partly on the head, whatever. The pick is moved up and down through the string, which is accomplised more or less by the hand's pivoting from side to side (from the p.o.v. of the top of your forearm.) In this position I have a tendency to want to bend my elbow to a very acute angle, sometimes leaning down to accomodate this, and my knuckles are close to perpendicular to the string. Note: If this is how you pick, it can be helpful to bring the neck of the banjo up towards your head, while NOT changing your right arm position or the direction you are moving the pick in. Then you are hitting the string partly with the edge of the pick, and if you are holding the pick loosely enough, it kind of slips past the string with less tension.
But here's a variation on that last idea. Hold your right hand so that the knuckles are close to parallel with the strings, instead of close to perpendicular. Now the elbow will be close to a right angle, and the hand just kind of hangs down with the wrist strait. To move the pick through the string, the wrist moves "upish" and "downish" instead of just side to side. At the same time the forearm may rotate a bit, and/or the forearm may pivot. The pick moves in a really strange angle; it's right and left with respect to me, at the same time as away, towards, with respect to the head. It seems to facilitate this if I hold the pick more with the pad of my index finger, as opposed to the side of it, which is normal for me. I'm also hitting the string sort of with the edge of the pick. The palm rests lightly somewhere, more likely on the head for this technique, and the wrist crosses the perimeter of the head much further from the tailpiece. (For me it's natural in doing "standard" picking for the wrist to cross quite near the tailpiece.) You want the banjo a bit lower on your body for this technique, to facilitate the right-angled elbow.
I haven't gotten up to my ordinary full speed this way yet, but I'm at about 2/3 with apparently less tension. It feels kind of like fiddle bowing. Even if it doesn't work out, I may end up with some combination of different picking techniques; it doesn't hurt to experiment.. Much.
Anyway, let me know if you make some significant progress on this. Like I said, it's a problem I'm always struggling with
I need a little help
I need a little help
Hi, I play banjo and mandola. I ve been playing for a few years now so im not a beginner but I do have a problem. When I play reels, inparticular when I play them fast, my right arm gets tense and It makes me unable to maintain speed for long periods. This problem is really annoying me as i see other players do not have the same problem. In addition, im uncertain if I have the correct positioning for my right hand. I really hope you guys could help me out thanks.
regards
Sebastian
# Posted on May 17th 2007 by sebs43
Re: I need a little help
sebs , i had the same problem , with pain , from the guitar.
i went to a physio who helped me with my posture, which was a major cause of it.
i would suggest you do the same, and she gave me some exercises too , as physios are prone to do!
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by doyler
Re: I need a little help
I used to play mandolin. I gave up because it was making the pads on the fingers of my left hand too coarse for fiddle playing.
I used to get my right arm stiffening up sometimes too when playing fast. I found it was sorted out by the good old technique of going back to the drawing board and practising really slowly.
The trick, btw, is to play the piece over and over very slowly and not to try to play it at speed AT ALL whilst practising. Works a treat.
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: I need a little help
... oh, and for some reason, practising slowly on one tune helps ALL your playing. I don't get that, personally, but it's true ...
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: I need a little help
I THink it has a lot to do with technique I used to have it when I placed one or two fingers on the soundboard, you should practice palying with these held in and just the plectrum fingers showing.
It defintiely helps and slow down until you know the tune inside out..
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by Shylock
Re: I need a little help
And try and keep relaxed! I found when I started playing mando (after playing fiddle for some years), my right arm got very tense - real death grip on the plec. I had to play slowly and concentrate on keeping that arm and hand relaxed.
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by c.g.
Re: I need a little help
Its not that easy to relax when a reel is going extremely fast, its very difficult, but is the best thing perhaps to start from scratch and play really slow and hold the plec loosely? I usually put my baby finger on the banjo skin or the soundboard when playing is this also a downfall?Its just I was advised this by a banjo player?
regards
seb
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by sebs43
Re: I need a little help
by the way thanks for all the replies
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by sebs43
Re: I need a little help
HI Seb,
If you get that little finger up and off the skin your hand will be looser in general, it takes some practice but keep that up and down movement going and you will finally get it going nicely
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by Shylock
Re: I need a little help
Hey Sebastion,
I used to have that problem as well, and for me trick was learning that playing faster doesn't mean playing harder. The natural way to try to play faster is to tense up and control the right hand movement more aggressively.
But I've found that working on a better technique is useful. On banjo especially, you want to compact the motion of your right hand. The instrument is loud enough on its own, you don't need to play it hard. That's a little bit more difficult on the double stringed instruments because you need to pick through the strings more, the motion has to be a bit bigger. So when I play tunes on my zouk, I find that my hand gets tired more quickly. But on banjo, we've been known to play the never-ending reel sets that last up to a half hour at a pretty screaming pace, and I can make it through without too much trouble. (There are times when I need to force myself to relax a bit after we've been playing for a while and I start getting tired).
Another thing that I ought to mention is a nice hand rhythm. I always pick reels with a solid down-up-down-up motion, and never "cheat" and pick the "wrong" direction to do a string crossing. That reciprocal motion helps you stay relaxed, because you never have to stop you hand in mid-stroke to move the other direction. Triplets are compact, and operate as one single motion (as opposed to three). So I tighten up my wrist slightly to do a triplet, but it doesn't interrupt my hand rhythm.
One last thought. It wasn't until fairly recently that I made the separation between playing tunes on banjo and zouk. I used to play them basically the same, which meant that I was playing the banjo way too hard. My recommendation would be to work on your banjo technique until you get that nice and relaxed, then you can apply some of that relaxed technique to playing the mandola.
The longer you play, the easier it is to become relaxed. If you watch Kieran Hanrahan, or someone of that caliber play, they look so relaxed, and seem to be exerting almost no effort.
Good luck with it!
Pete
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by Reverend
Re: I need a little help
Hey,
Not sure if you're still checking this post, but...
I sympathize; I have the same problem. This is good advice about practicing slow, gradually building speed etc, I like using a metronome for that too.
I've got some other things I've been trying too though. One idea is experimenting with different picking techniques. There are lots and lots of weird ways of going at the pick and string out there. It's tremedously hard to describe them without pictures.
There's that "circle picking" thing, where the thumb and index finger move in and out while the wrist moves -sort of- up and down, so that the pick goes around the string in a circle. I've messed around with this one, and you can get going pretty fast with less effort. But it's kind of unreliable, and it seems tougher to do triplets UDU, which I like to be able to throw in now and then, this way. Anyway, that's on the back burner for me for now.
I have something I've been trying, and I hesitate to share it, because I only came up with it the other day, and I'm not sure if I'm going to switch to it. But it seems to induce less tension for me so far. It's a deviation from what I consider to be the "standard" picking technique, which is as follows. You hold the pick with the thumb and index finger, with the middle finger behind the index for support. Fingers 3 and 4 are not planted on the head. The palm, and maybe another point on the wrist, rests lightly on something, on the strings behind the bridge, maybe partly on the head, whatever. The pick is moved up and down through the string, which is accomplised more or less by the hand's pivoting from side to side (from the p.o.v. of the top of your forearm.) In this position I have a tendency to want to bend my elbow to a very acute angle, sometimes leaning down to accomodate this, and my knuckles are close to perpendicular to the string. Note: If this is how you pick, it can be helpful to bring the neck of the banjo up towards your head, while NOT changing your right arm position or the direction you are moving the pick in. Then you are hitting the string partly with the edge of the pick, and if you are holding the pick loosely enough, it kind of slips past the string with less tension.
But here's a variation on that last idea. Hold your right hand so that the knuckles are close to parallel with the strings, instead of close to perpendicular. Now the elbow will be close to a right angle, and the hand just kind of hangs down with the wrist strait. To move the pick through the string, the wrist moves "upish" and "downish" instead of just side to side. At the same time the forearm may rotate a bit, and/or the forearm may pivot. The pick moves in a really strange angle; it's right and left with respect to me, at the same time as away, towards, with respect to the head. It seems to facilitate this if I hold the pick more with the pad of my index finger, as opposed to the side of it, which is normal for me. I'm also hitting the string sort of with the edge of the pick. The palm rests lightly somewhere, more likely on the head for this technique, and the wrist crosses the perimeter of the head much further from the tailpiece. (For me it's natural in doing "standard" picking for the wrist to cross quite near the tailpiece.) You want the banjo a bit lower on your body for this technique, to facilitate the right-angled elbow.
I haven't gotten up to my ordinary full speed this way yet, but I'm at about 2/3 with apparently less tension. It feels kind of like fiddle bowing. Even if it doesn't work out, I may end up with some combination of different picking techniques; it doesn't hurt to experiment.. Much.
Anyway, let me know if you make some significant progress on this. Like I said, it's a problem I'm always struggling with
# Posted on May 23rd 2007 by m_gavin