I was hoping some of you could recommend some Scottish or ITM albums that have a grittier or lo-fi sound.
I have been listening to a 4-cd box set of early irish american music and also the listening room at: http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/ListenToIrishDance.htm
theres something about grainy sounding recordings that i REALLY love.
im not really into albums that have ultra glossy production values, so if anyone can point out any recent recordings, i would greatly appreciate it.
I have a Johnny Connolly CD that has alot of noise on it. Actually it's kind of annoying. Connolly has a very nice style and the noise takes away from it.
On the other hand I have one of Tony McMahon's done live with dancers. Really fantastic. Alot of energy.
I'm a box player if it isn't too obvious
Totally agree with you on over production. It you want to hear gross post production there is a priest/Irish musician Liam lawton who does cd's of his own compositions.
They are post production engineers on speed. But Herself likes them as well as our church's music folks. Herself knows the difference between LL and real ITM. The church folks wouldn't know bodhran from air compressor.
Uh... does the *music* have to be any good, or are you just after the pops and crackles?
This sort of discussion--"I don't like it, because it sounds too good"--always amazes me. Better to discuss the player's interpretation, fine points of technique, history of the tune, etc., isn't it?
Check the 'Links' section... I hope I put them there, or someone else did... I think the University of California, Santa Barbara did some, called 'Cylinders', and there's the Canadian National Library too, the 'Virtual Gramophone' ~
OK, what?!!?, I'll give you that--there can be distortion of a smoother-sounding kind, when there's too much deliberate electronic interference (reverb, pitch correction, whatever).
But either way--pops and scratches, or digital processing--it's noise, not music. I don't understand why anybody would deliberately want more noise and less music.
Eh? Not trying to get you cornered Dub, but Gerry O'Connor has been around a few years - maybe in a period before what you call his "pristine" sound. His playing with Wild Geese I'd say falls into the "warmer tape" sound.
Perhaps what you prefer about the older recordings is the better musicality, rather than the poorer reproduction?
The older recordings have a lovely lift, lilt and swing that the newer recordings (In spite of their elegant arrangements, technical perfection and brilliance) never seem to manage. Maybe this is what draws you to "dirtier" recordings? If so, join the club!
I often tell the following story:
Several years ago, my girlfriend (now my wife), who had only just started to get interested in trad music, was helping me with a long and tedious data-entry project. After an hour or so, she was bored silly and starting to feel tired, so she asked me to put some lively music on, in order to wake her up. Not wanting to inflict my idiosyncratic love of music from the 1920s on someone who was doing me such an enormous favor, I popped in the latest Dervish CD ("At the End of the Day", I think). Thinking that it might do the trick.
After 15 minutes of fast reels and jigs though, she said "It's not working. I'm still falling asleep here".
So I went to plan B. I pulled out a CD that was all re-issues of old 78-rpm recordings from the 1920s, and popped it in. Sure enough, within a few minutes she was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed once more, and remained through the end of the task at hand. We were both surprised with how dramatic the difference was.
In the end, this served to verify what I had already thought I knew: Those old recordings had something special that the vast majority of newer recordings lack. I'm not sure if it's energy, love, reckless abandon (most 78s were probably made in a single take), or what... But it was something GOOD.
Seek it out!
There are a reasonable number of good trad musicians out there that I think have come to similar conclusions: Jesse Smith, John Carty, Colm Gannon, Emmet Gill, Harry Bradley, David Munnelly...
Perhaps these guys have some of what you're looking for too...?
Then of course there's Ben & Charlie Lennon, Frankie Gavin, Fr Seamus Quinn, and dozens of others who also keep quite true to that aesthetic. Check them out too!
Get some vinyl crackle and pop sound samples and use software to redo all of your CDs so they have that warm, nostalgic sound you love. Those clicks and scratches will make even Flook sound old skool.
What about "Live at Mona's" which is linked on this site - recordings from a session - just great. You get the feeling you are standing there with the other punters, around the musicians at the table.
Vinyl and earlier cassette recordings, despite their flaws, also don't suffer COMPRESSION, oops!, I mean compression, the topping and tailing of the waveform. That is partly what 'squashes' some of the 'lift' and 'bounce' of a recording... Too much dickin' around digitally is going to end up somewhere along the line toward processed pablum... You know, like the baby food of music... But I do mean the 'extremes', like some folks fondness for sounding like they were playing in a ceramic tiled loo or down a well... YUCK!
So, stretch and pop and crackle and hum aside, in the processing of even these older recordings it is never just that which is being eliminated. Sometimes it is OK to experience the dirt in limited stretches of time and to listen beyond it?
Crackle and pop noises could be added by holding a bowl of rice crispies, recently milked, next to your ear while listening to the latest Flook CD. I haven't tried this myself.
I'm inclined to agree with DubChief - I dislike the overproduction of many modern CD releases - just don't sound authentic. Two of the older recordings that come to mind and are available (as far as I know) are the Joe Cooley CD and the more recent The Raineys release. Sound just like my session recordings on some tracks! I also had the good fortune, thanks to a fellow member here ... to recently get older recordings of Fintan Vallely - great stuff altogether.
i didnt want to come right out and say it
but i do find myself drawn to the old 78 recordings
i think people today are making "Folk" albums, where as in the past the were recording "Music" so the approach was different.
i think
if you know what i mean.
"There seems to be a great deal of overlap with Topic/Proper's 4-CD set "Farewell To Ireland" which was compiled by the estimable Ron Kavana." ~ Aidan Crossey
"dirtier" sounding recordings.
"dirtier" sounding recordings.
I was hoping some of you could recommend some Scottish or ITM albums that have a grittier or lo-fi sound.
I have been listening to a 4-cd box set of early irish american music and also the listening room at:
http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/ListenToIrishDance.htm
theres something about grainy sounding recordings that i REALLY love.
im not really into albums that have ultra glossy production values, so if anyone can point out any recent recordings, i would greatly appreciate it.
cheers.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by DubChieftain
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
I have a Johnny Connolly CD that has alot of noise on it. Actually it's kind of annoying. Connolly has a very nice style and the noise takes away from it.
On the other hand I have one of Tony McMahon's done live with dancers. Really fantastic. Alot of energy.
I'm a box player if it isn't too obvious
Totally agree with you on over production. It you want to hear gross post production there is a priest/Irish musician Liam lawton who does cd's of his own compositions.
They are post production engineers on speed. But Herself likes them as well as our church's music folks. Herself knows the difference between LL and real ITM. The church folks wouldn't know bodhran from air compressor.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by zippydw
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Uh... does the *music* have to be any good, or are you just after the pops and crackles?
This sort of discussion--"I don't like it, because it sounds too good"--always amazes me. Better to discuss the player's interpretation, fine points of technique, history of the tune, etc., isn't it?
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by mickray
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
From Galway To Dublin: Early Recordings Of Traditional Irish Music
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/975
Milestone At The Garden: Irish Fiddle Masters From The 78 RPM Era
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/8
Past Masters Of Irish Dance Music
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1421
Past Masters Of Irish Fiddle Music
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1401
Round The House And Mind The Dresser: Irish Country House Dance Music
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/317
Irish Dance Music
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1424
Also, and there are several such sites, like 'Juneberry' mentioned previously ~
http://www.juneberry78s.com/
http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/index.htm
Check the 'Links' section... I hope I put them there, or someone else did... I think the University of California, Santa Barbara did some, called 'Cylinders', and there's the Canadian National Library too, the 'Virtual Gramophone' ~
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/gramophone/index-e.html
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by ceolachan
Oddly, the UCSB site links I have aren't currently working...
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
OK, what?!!?, I'll give you that--there can be distortion of a smoother-sounding kind, when there's too much deliberate electronic interference (reverb, pitch correction, whatever).
But either way--pops and scratches, or digital processing--it's noise, not music. I don't understand why anybody would deliberately want more noise and less music.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by mickray
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
yeah i dont mind "if the music sounds too good"
whatever that means.
i like it when people can play their instruments.
haha.
what im getting at is:
as a banjo player
i prefer the warmer tape sound of The Dubliners over the more pristine sound of Gerry O'Connor.
this is my personal preference though, im not knocking that highly detailed approach to recording.
thanks for the suggestions.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by DubChieftain
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
OK, sorry if I misunderstood. Maybe if you had phrased it differently--"grainy sounding" and "warmer tape sound" mean different things, to me.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by mickray
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Eh? Not trying to get you cornered Dub, but Gerry O'Connor has been around a few years - maybe in a period before what you call his "pristine" sound. His playing with Wild Geese I'd say falls into the "warmer tape" sound.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Prosperous.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
thanks for the tip about the earlier Gerry O'Connor stuff.
I saw him live at Celtic Connections and thought he was suberb.
im not heavily immersed in this whole genre.
so all info is good.
# Posted on May 9th 2007 by DubChieftain
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Perhaps what you prefer about the older recordings is the better musicality, rather than the poorer reproduction?
The older recordings have a lovely lift, lilt and swing that the newer recordings (In spite of their elegant arrangements, technical perfection and brilliance) never seem to manage. Maybe this is what draws you to "dirtier" recordings? If so, join the club!
I often tell the following story:
Several years ago, my girlfriend (now my wife), who had only just started to get interested in trad music, was helping me with a long and tedious data-entry project. After an hour or so, she was bored silly and starting to feel tired, so she asked me to put some lively music on, in order to wake her up. Not wanting to inflict my idiosyncratic love of music from the 1920s on someone who was doing me such an enormous favor, I popped in the latest Dervish CD ("At the End of the Day", I think). Thinking that it might do the trick.
After 15 minutes of fast reels and jigs though, she said "It's not working. I'm still falling asleep here".
So I went to plan B. I pulled out a CD that was all re-issues of old 78-rpm recordings from the 1920s, and popped it in. Sure enough, within a few minutes she was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed once more, and remained through the end of the task at hand. We were both surprised with how dramatic the difference was.
In the end, this served to verify what I had already thought I knew: Those old recordings had something special that the vast majority of newer recordings lack. I'm not sure if it's energy, love, reckless abandon (most 78s were probably made in a single take), or what... But it was something GOOD.
Seek it out!
There are a reasonable number of good trad musicians out there that I think have come to similar conclusions: Jesse Smith, John Carty, Colm Gannon, Emmet Gill, Harry Bradley, David Munnelly...
Perhaps these guys have some of what you're looking for too...?
Then of course there's Ben & Charlie Lennon, Frankie Gavin, Fr Seamus Quinn, and dozens of others who also keep quite true to that aesthetic. Check them out too!
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by Georgi
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Get some vinyl crackle and pop sound samples and use software to redo all of your CDs so they have that warm, nostalgic sound you love. Those clicks and scratches will make even Flook sound old skool.
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by Dow
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
What about "Live at Mona's" which is linked on this site - recordings from a session - just great. You get the feeling you are standing there with the other punters, around the musicians at the table.
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by Brown Creeper
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/281
"Yes, Byrnes !!!"
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by Kenny
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/928
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by Kenny
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Vinyl and earlier cassette recordings, despite their flaws, also don't suffer COMPRESSION, oops!, I mean compression, the topping and tailing of the waveform. That is partly what 'squashes' some of the 'lift' and 'bounce' of a recording... Too much dickin' around digitally is going to end up somewhere along the line toward processed pablum... You know, like the baby food of music... But I do mean the 'extremes', like some folks fondness for sounding like they were playing in a ceramic tiled loo or down a well... YUCK!
So, stretch and pop and crackle and hum aside, in the processing of even these older recordings it is never just that which is being eliminated. Sometimes it is OK to experience the dirt in limited stretches of time and to listen beyond it?
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Crackle and pop noises could be added by holding a bowl of rice crispies, recently milked, next to your ear while listening to the latest Flook CD. I haven't tried this myself.
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by de Selby
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
But you can't add back what digital editing cuts out, which isn't just snap, crackle, pop...
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
I'm inclined to agree with DubChief - I dislike the overproduction of many modern CD releases - just don't sound authentic. Two of the older recordings that come to mind and are available (as far as I know) are the Joe Cooley CD and the more recent The Raineys release. Sound just like my session recordings on some tracks! I also had the good fortune, thanks to a fellow member here ... to recently get older recordings of Fintan Vallely - great stuff altogether.
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
It must be the guitars. They didn't have guitars in the old recordings. Well, not as much as nowadays.
...Max?
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
That's the snap, crackle, pop!
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Paddy in The Smoke
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by pennhorse
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
i didnt want to come right out and say it
but i do find myself drawn to the old 78 recordings
i think people today are making "Folk" albums, where as in the past the were recording "Music" so the approach was different.
i think
if you know what i mean.
lately, this floats my boat:
Tom Morrison & John Reynolds, I could imagine this being played at a Rave:
http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/Tom%20Morrison%20&%20John%20Reynolds%20-%20Dunmore%20Lassies.mp3
&
Edward Mullaney & Patrick Stack, this haunts me.
http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/msi78-01.mp3
thanks all.
ps - this site rocks!
# Posted on May 10th 2007 by DubChieftain
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Two more, both from Yazoo, 1997 ~ if with some 'overlap' with other compilations, see later ~
The Wheels Of The World, Early Irish American Music, Vol. 1
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/314
The Wheels Of The World, Early Irish American Music, Vol 2
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/315
"There seems to be a great deal of overlap with Topic/Proper's 4-CD set "Farewell To Ireland" which was compiled by the estimable Ron Kavana." ~ Aidan Crossey
# Posted on October 8th 2002 by Aidan Crossey
# Posted on May 11th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Here's more to keep you out of trouble ~
FARNE: Folk Archive Resource North East (Northumberland, etc...)
http://www.asaplive.com/Farne/Home.cfm
Archive searches, try, for example Irish, or a name like Will Atkinson; Willy Taylor ~ etc...
http://www.asaplive.com/archive/
# Posted on May 11th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
excellent site c!
i did a quick search and found some Billy Pigg.
(someone i discovered only 3 weeks ago)
thanks for the link
# Posted on May 11th 2007 by DubChieftain
Re: "dirtier" sounding recordings.
Junior Crehan: The Last House In Ballymakea
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2099
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by ceolachan