This week I had my fiddle taken into a shop for soundpost adjustment, and while I was there the guy let me try Helicore, Aricore, and Tonica A strings, to see if they would be better than the Gold Label I had on it. They were not. Even with the Gold Label, my A string sounds very loud, and piercing and rings in my ears. Any suggestions for what to do, or suggestions for other strings to try? I have larsens on the lower 2 and obligato gold on e. Thanks.
hey enirehtac, i found going from prazisions-besaitung to Dominants the sound mellowed quite a lot, try a string with a synthetic core that is quite thick and you might be able to get the sound you are after. cheers
Catherine, I'm a little reluctant to say this, but how qualified do you think that shop person was to adjust your sound post properly? There is the possibility that the adjustment might have had the unfortunate effect on the A-string that you describe.
Try a set of Obligatos across all strings. My fiddle is pretty "dry" sounding and after much experimentation I've found that they add a degree of warmth and mellowness. The Dominants might work, too.
The mellowest violin strings I ever tried were a set of "Octava" strings. They are not expensive strings. Try the A string. Other than that, a good luthier can adjust the tone working with the sound post and bridge.
I have never been totally happy with the sound of the A string on the fiddle I have owned for over 30 years, and I still comment on it when I tune it up (okay, not so very often now a days). I mean it is okay, noone else seems to hear it as any different from the other strings, but its just something I kindda accept with that fiddle.
Clear Drops has raised an important point. The fiddle player will always hear a different sound from the instrument they're playing than what someone a few feet away will hear. This is because the sound frequencies produced by the fiddle are more directional than in most other instruments. This is why a fiddle is difficult to record with a microphone close up.
It's a good idea to listen to your fiddle played by another player - what you think is unacceptable tone when you're playing may very well not be audible from a little distance away. There's always the possibility that changing the setup so that the fiddle sound ok to you, the player, may make the tone sound weak or ineffective to the listener.
I agree with Mandolynist's suggestion that the sound post and bridge should be looked at by a good luthier - their adjustment is a skilled business.
The indolent canine and Mandolynist are right. Soundpost and bridge adjustments can make a big difference in tone, loudness, balance across strings, etc., but it takes a trained luthier to really exploit the possibilities. Most of the fiddle technicians I've met were either minimally trained or self-taught and seemed to have little or no understanding of the subtleties of voicing a fiddle. Making it comfortable to play is one thing. Making fine adjustments to the voice is quite another.
By the way, from my own experience and from talking with a luthier friend, a loud A string is specifically something that can often be remedied by a soundpost adjustment. To get the sound that you want, you need a luthier who will let you test the sound while s/he makes incremental adjustments.
I've actually asked my boyfriend (a more experienced fiddler than I) about this because when I play his violin, I find the A is very shrill as well. I'd rather play up the E string than on the A because it sounds better.. He replaced the strings on it with kind of cheepy strings a while ago, so I thought that might be what the problem was, but perhaps it isn't..
I have to agree with some of the comments given so far,
as I have found even trained luthiers spend little time
satisfying the player when it comes to sound adjustment.
It seems they are more interested in selling instruments
than bringing them to their potential. Try to learn the
secrets of the interplay between post and bridge, buy
a soundpost setter and experiment yourself. Try your
experiments on a junker and you'll see what I mean.
When you are adept at this procedure, you can then
carry it on to your favorite fiddle(s). After all, who is more
concerned about it than the player itself ? Strings are
almost alway not the problem or the solution. Good luck !
I know some players set their own soundposts, but I wouldn't do it. You can damage your fiddle if you don't know exactly what you're doing. This article explains why in great detail:
There are only a few rules that govern sound ... 1 the volume of the sound produced .. which in this case may be the strings .. 2 the disance the sound travels... 3 the atmosphere that the sound travels through... the distance .. and the other sound waves. that may interupt ... but at the receiving end of the sound wave if the listener has a hearing problem then all the strings in the world cant cure this and you cant be the listner and the player at the same distance ... .... well you can to a certain extent.. but you do need to have your fiddle adjusted by a person who plays and understands your type of music ... and finally you may just have a downright bad fiddle
Theres been some interesting points made and i thought id chuck this in as well... after saying that dominants gave me a mellow sound on the fiddle, i decided to cut myself a new bridge yesturday, the old one i had was a lot thicker and the "violin maker" that made it really didnt have much of a clue about irish music on the fiddle. I lowered the action on the new bridge, tappered it down the way a bridge should and i am blowen away by how loud and strong the sound is!! Also the position of the bridge in relation to the sound post will give you different sound quality. Like all the others have said before, depending on how confident you are at cutting your own bridge, experiment and see if you cant set up the fiddle the way you like it.
Is the sound louder or softer when you move the bridge towards the soundpost? I think the luthier is qualified. I know my fiddle teacher suggested him. I guess I'll just go back and have him readjust the sound post. He seems open to adjusting a lot and lets me try it. He keeps on complaining, but maybe it's just all words and no meaning. Also, it wasn't loud until I had a new bridge carved.
Anyhow, thanks for the advice and info.
A google search will reveal the amount of tapering on a bridge and its thickness. I haven't got the links to hand now but I did it a couple of years ago, thinning and tapering the bridge to the specification I found. It worked very well.
A few hints based on my experience:
A micrometer gauge (or caliper) is very useful - almost essential for the inexperienced, I'd say - because you're dealing with a piece of wood that's relatively thin and reducing its thickness in places by a small fraction of a millimetre.
Do the thinning and tapering on the front face of the bridge (the side facing the fingerboard) because the other side should always be at right angles to the belly.
Use very fine sand paper to thin and taper the bridge.
When reducing the height of the bridge always do it from the top, never from the feet, which should already be an exact fit to the surface of the belly. It's useful to use the profile of the end of the fingerboard as a general guide for the profile of the bridge - use a piece of stiff card as a template. I used a very sharp blade (i.e. new) for the early stages of reducing the bridge, and fine sand paper for the final stages. Take the bridge down a little at a time, checking each time for the height of the action. If you don't do this you can be sure as fate you'll get one of those dreaded omigod moments .
I'm fairly certain one of those google links gave information about the spacing of the grooves on the bridge, but if you want to be sure about retaining the spacing you're used to, mark the positions on the cardboard template or pencil their position on the bridge, because the original grooves will probably be destroyed when you take the bridge down.
Mellow A string for fiddle
Mellow A string for fiddle
This week I had my fiddle taken into a shop for soundpost adjustment, and while I was there the guy let me try Helicore, Aricore, and Tonica A strings, to see if they would be better than the Gold Label I had on it. They were not. Even with the Gold Label, my A string sounds very loud, and piercing and rings in my ears. Any suggestions for what to do, or suggestions for other strings to try? I have larsens on the lower 2 and obligato gold on e. Thanks.
# Posted on May 4th 2007 by enirehtac
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
hey enirehtac, i found going from prazisions-besaitung to Dominants the sound mellowed quite a lot, try a string with a synthetic core that is quite thick and you might be able to get the sound you are after. cheers
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
Catherine, I'm a little reluctant to say this, but how qualified do you think that shop person was to adjust your sound post properly? There is the possibility that the adjustment might have had the unfortunate effect on the A-string that you describe.
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
Try a set of Obligatos across all strings. My fiddle is pretty "dry" sounding and after much experimentation I've found that they add a degree of warmth and mellowness. The Dominants might work, too.
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by mcdevincabe
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
The mellowest violin strings I ever tried were a set of "Octava" strings. They are not expensive strings. Try the A string. Other than that, a good luthier can adjust the tone working with the sound post and bridge.
Mandolynist
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by Mandolynist
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
I have never been totally happy with the sound of the A string on the fiddle I have owned for over 30 years, and I still comment on it when I tune it up (okay, not so very often now a days). I mean it is okay, noone else seems to hear it as any different from the other strings, but its just something I kindda accept with that fiddle.
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
Clear Drops has raised an important point. The fiddle player will always hear a different sound from the instrument they're playing than what someone a few feet away will hear. This is because the sound frequencies produced by the fiddle are more directional than in most other instruments. This is why a fiddle is difficult to record with a microphone close up.
It's a good idea to listen to your fiddle played by another player - what you think is unacceptable tone when you're playing may very well not be audible from a little distance away. There's always the possibility that changing the setup so that the fiddle sound ok to you, the player, may make the tone sound weak or ineffective to the listener.
I agree with Mandolynist's suggestion that the sound post and bridge should be looked at by a good luthier - their adjustment is a skilled business.
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
The indolent canine and Mandolynist are right. Soundpost and bridge adjustments can make a big difference in tone, loudness, balance across strings, etc., but it takes a trained luthier to really exploit the possibilities. Most of the fiddle technicians I've met were either minimally trained or self-taught and seemed to have little or no understanding of the subtleties of voicing a fiddle. Making it comfortable to play is one thing. Making fine adjustments to the voice is quite another.
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
By the way, from my own experience and from talking with a luthier friend, a loud A string is specifically something that can often be remedied by a soundpost adjustment. To get the sound that you want, you need a luthier who will let you test the sound while s/he makes incremental adjustments.
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
I've actually asked my boyfriend (a more experienced fiddler than I) about this because when I play his violin, I find the A is very shrill as well. I'd rather play up the E string than on the A because it sounds better.. He replaced the strings on it with kind of cheepy strings a while ago, so I thought that might be what the problem was, but perhaps it isn't..
# Posted on May 5th 2007 by alyssak
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
I have to agree with some of the comments given so far,
as I have found even trained luthiers spend little time
satisfying the player when it comes to sound adjustment.
It seems they are more interested in selling instruments
than bringing them to their potential. Try to learn the
secrets of the interplay between post and bridge, buy
a soundpost setter and experiment yourself. Try your
experiments on a junker and you'll see what I mean.
When you are adept at this procedure, you can then
carry it on to your favorite fiddle(s). After all, who is more
concerned about it than the player itself ? Strings are
almost alway not the problem or the solution. Good luck !
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by hauke
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
I know some players set their own soundposts, but I wouldn't do it. You can damage your fiddle if you don't know exactly what you're doing. This article explains why in great detail:
http://www.maestronet.com/m%5Flibrary/maestro_mag/Soul%20Mate.cfm
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
There are only a few rules that govern sound ... 1 the volume of the sound produced .. which in this case may be the strings .. 2 the disance the sound travels... 3 the atmosphere that the sound travels through... the distance .. and the other sound waves. that may interupt ... but at the receiving end of the sound wave if the listener has a hearing problem then all the strings in the world cant cure this and you cant be the listner and the player at the same distance ... .... well you can to a certain extent.. but you do need to have your fiddle adjusted by a person who plays and understands your type of music ... and finally you may just have a downright bad fiddle
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by camlough
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
Thanks fer that article, Kennedy. Very interesting.
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
Theres been some interesting points made and i thought id chuck this in as well... after saying that dominants gave me a mellow sound on the fiddle, i decided to cut myself a new bridge yesturday, the old one i had was a lot thicker and the "violin maker" that made it really didnt have much of a clue about irish music on the fiddle. I lowered the action on the new bridge, tappered it down the way a bridge should and i am blowen away by how loud and strong the sound is!! Also the position of the bridge in relation to the sound post will give you different sound quality. Like all the others have said before, depending on how confident you are at cutting your own bridge, experiment and see if you cant set up the fiddle the way you like it.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
Is the sound louder or softer when you move the bridge towards the soundpost? I think the luthier is qualified. I know my fiddle teacher suggested him. I guess I'll just go back and have him readjust the sound post. He seems open to adjusting a lot and lets me try it. He keeps on complaining, but maybe it's just all words and no meaning. Also, it wasn't loud until I had a new bridge carved.
Anyhow, thanks for the advice and info.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by enirehtac
Re: Mellow A string for fiddle
A google search will reveal the amount of tapering on a bridge and its thickness. I haven't got the links to hand now but I did it a couple of years ago, thinning and tapering the bridge to the specification I found. It worked very well.
.
A few hints based on my experience:
A micrometer gauge (or caliper) is very useful - almost essential for the inexperienced, I'd say - because you're dealing with a piece of wood that's relatively thin and reducing its thickness in places by a small fraction of a millimetre.
Do the thinning and tapering on the front face of the bridge (the side facing the fingerboard) because the other side should always be at right angles to the belly.
Use very fine sand paper to thin and taper the bridge.
When reducing the height of the bridge always do it from the top, never from the feet, which should already be an exact fit to the surface of the belly. It's useful to use the profile of the end of the fingerboard as a general guide for the profile of the bridge - use a piece of stiff card as a template. I used a very sharp blade (i.e. new) for the early stages of reducing the bridge, and fine sand paper for the final stages. Take the bridge down a little at a time, checking each time for the height of the action. If you don't do this you can be sure as fate you'll get one of those dreaded omigod moments
I'm fairly certain one of those google links gave information about the spacing of the grooves on the bridge, but if you want to be sure about retaining the spacing you're used to, mark the positions on the cardboard template or pencil their position on the bridge, because the original grooves will probably be destroyed when you take the bridge down.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by Trevor Jennings