How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
We all love playing in sessions, they are great social occasions and can be great musical occasions. However I'm sure most of you will agree that there's nothing worse than having a potentially great 'musical' session ruined by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing. I'm not going to isolate any instrument in this discussion because it can actually happen with any instrument and not just the ones that are usually given out about.
It can be a pleasure to tell someone who is an obviously rude and ignorant person to get the **** out of a session, or do as one person I know did to a particularly ignorant guitarist, cut their strings off when they go to the toilet!
But what do you do about someone who is either quiet/shy or genuinely friendly or local to the area? The general thing tends to be to say nothing and just live with it, but this can lead to the ruination of either a brilliant one off session or more importantly a regular session because such people will come back week after week presuming they are doing nothing wrong. They never learn if no one tells them they are doing something wrong.
Some of you may suggest politely telling the person that they should learn more before joining in, but this can come across as condescending
So what do you all do about this kind of situation without coming across as rude and//or condescending?
p.s. I know I can come off rude or condescending on this site but that's probably just my frustration coming out of situations like the ones described above. Who knows, if someone comes up with a good suggestion I may even be polite from now on here.........then again
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I think most people would rather be told if they are doing something wrong than have people muttering about them behind their backs.
When I was starting out on the accordion I was told by a good friend of mine that I shounded sh!te. So after swallowing my pride I decided to do a great deal more practising and made sure I was more or less up to speed when I next brought out the box. I doubt it was much better, to be honest, but I was glad to be told up front that I needed to do a lot of work.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, I've been on the receiving end of this in my younger(if not young days) and I'd probably have considered myself to be one of the "quiet/shy or genuinely friendly or local to the area" types, although like most people (I''m very sure) I have occasionally been indiscreet after a few drinks. Happens to us all, I'd argue. "Never trust a (wo)man who doesn't take a drink"
The worst experience I had was when a piano accordion player stormed off to the bar in the huff and shouted "If you're gonnae strum that F***ing thing, then use a softer bl**dy pick!"
It wasn't very nice and I reckon some of the other musicians felt for me a bit. However, I did learn to be a lot more subtle and also realised (But many of these strummers still don't) that you don't need to strum all six strings at a time either.
Much more helpful, however, is if one of the company suggests something like "Have you tried doing it this way....?" or similar. Or, "a little bit of "this or that" here would be nice" and so on.
Then, the "offending" or "improving" musician will feel welcome and, hopefully, take heed if he/she wants to remain part of the proceedings.
One time, I had to borrow a guitar from a guy to "do a song" and returned it to him *in tune*. He still didn't realise why I suddenly felt the urge to sing that night, mind you!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"When there is a pause between tunes, could you please not start playing show tunes and pop classics on your squeezebox in keys that half of the people in the room can't play along with."
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
You could tell them about this website and in particular this discussion. But that might not make any difference as denial would probably kick in. "Ha! that sounds bad. Thank god they're not talking about ME!"
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Be careful what tunes you lift up for criticism. "Somewhere over the Rainbow" was one of Johnny Cunningham's favorite tunes, and friends of his still play it sometimes in local sessions around here.
The best way to deal with a situation like you describe is to focus on telling a person how they can get better, rather than focusing on how bad they are. Don't tell them they stink, tell them they have a long way to go. And be honest, it hurts less in the long run.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've never understood this question. It's nice to be polite to people who are polite. But ruining as session is one of the most impolite things I can think of. And it makes no difference if they are doing it in ignorance.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It's true though. The only thing is not to sink down to their level. So Al's approach is probably best. But I find it hard to actually communicate with a session wrecker as I know I have a short fuse. So I leave it to calmer people or write emails if possible.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Actually I agree. And often it can particularly be miconstrued that you are being a bully. And there's the other one also where if I tell someone like it is, they just shrug it off because I'm a grumpy tw@t and think I don't really mean it. So yes, I do my best to get someone else to do the deed.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It's this assumption that certain people have, that because it is an "open" session they think they have the inalienable right to march in and thump or clack or whatever, away, without knowing anything about what really makes this music tick. Most half-decent sessions are really only "open" to those who can contribute significantly. Non-musos sitting in the allotted session space is another one that gets on my mammaries, though often this is deffo through blissful ignorance.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Danny is right that the "open" in "open session" can sometimes be over-egged, but on the other hand open sessions are inherently unpredictable, uncontrollable free-for-alls, often likened to a musical brawl. If you go, you let yourself in for that.
So the solution might be just to get over yourself.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Strangely enough, we had exactly this problem at the session tonight. Some guy squeezed himself into the group and picked up my mate's bazouki (with his permission). From his initial comments we presumed he was a muso. If he was, it was soon evident he'd never played 'zouk before, and really hadn't a clue what he was doing.
We put up with it for about an hour, until we got into a particularly lively set of polkas. The guitarist was new to the session, but was fitting in very nicely since he actually knew what he was doing, even if he hadn't played these particular tunes before. The zouk mangler didn't, and it got to the point where I thought he might actually break some of the steel strings. He was showing a complete lack of rhythm and absolutely zero empathy for the music.
Eventually the guitarist said "are you going to give that a rest?" (in the middle of the set, while still playing frantically). After some minor verbal to-ing and fro-ing the guy stood up and said "what you're saying is 'f*ck off'", which met with general looks of agreement from all concerned. So he promptly did.
Admittedly he'd had a few before he turned up, and it may even be that he was quite competent on his own instrument, but in this particular case he was becoming a major drain on the session. Normally I'd say live and let live, but in this one case the silver bullet was definately justified. And was done as gently as the situation allowed. You can't win 'em all.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"Some guy squeezed himself into the group and picked up my mate's bazouki (with his permission)."
Shouldn't your mate have reclaimed his instrument a little sooner? Even if the guy could play, it's bad form to hog somebody else's instrument all night!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
That's because he plays banjo and bazouki, and was busy on the banjo all the time. I have to admit I was truly amazed he didn't punch the guy's lights out (he's a fiery feller from Belfast), but I think he must have been concentrating on the tunes.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Come to think of it, I don't think anyone wanted to break the spell. The sesh was going nicely and was a good enough mix of instruments (banjo / guitar / box / three fiddles & whistle) to cover most of the indiscretions. It only got really bad when what I can only describe as poorly syncopated power chords started...
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I have a good answer for this one but I'm not going to bother saying it because I don't think portnabpucai will bother trying to understand what I've written. I get the impression he/she prefers to tell others about his/her own ideas and is not really interested in hearing other people out. You'd think the opposite given that he/she posted a thread purporting to ask for ideas. Don't be fooled. I'm quite happy to listen. If you listen hard and use your head, all the answers are right there staring you in the face.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Yes, unlike me. I enjoy listening to other people's ideas. I might then trash them and tell them they're talking crap and be really horrible to them, but that's the difference.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
In this and in other recent threads Portnabpucai has given the impression of being a creature of painfully heightened sensibilities. He/she hasn't indicated what gross crime has been perpetrated by the miscreant in this case. The "quiet/shy...local" person might merely have brought in an instrument tuned to equal temperament for all we know. Maybe we should be asking everyone: "Are you local?....this is a local session for local people!"
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
To be "a local" here, you have to see the river flowing three times, so it could be years and years or a matter of weeks depending on whether it rains or not!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It all depends on whether you want to encourage this person or discourage them. If you do not want them playing in the session at all you should tell them. How you do that is up to you although it matters what others in the session want.
If you think they can fit in it actually gets a trickier. Essentially the answer is the same. Is there anyone who is considered the leader at this session? I hope that question is not a windup.
It would be helpful if you commented back on some of these posts. For instance the instrument might determine the response. Do not let the requisite sarcasm of TheSession silence you. Good luck!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Dow, I just made an open call for advice and have yet to make any comments, just because I traded blows with you over another topic doesn't mean I'm not open to ideas on this subject from you or other people. From your response and RichardB's it seems that you casually read my previous posts didn't like what you read because it challenged some of your preconceptions about ITM and so have dismissed me as some kind of crackpot.
I am opinionated, for sure, but funny thing is Dow I've actually been in a session or two with you long ago and I think you're a fine concertina player, not too pushed about your bouzouki playing but I didn't say it at the time because of reasons stated above. I'm actually very friendly in a session and I'm using this forum to bring up topics that I couldn't bring up in a session because people might take offence to them in a session. At least here I can try out my ideas to see what offends and what doesn't
So Dow, maybe now you can answer, what should I have done about the fact that you once chose to play bouzouki at the same time as there were already a least two guitarists playing. In fact since you are a very competent concertina player I really don't understand what would possess you to do such a thing.
And RichardB I haven't indicated what 'gross crime has been perpetrated by the miscreant in this case' because I'm not talking about one particular case, I'm talking about over 40 years of session experience where this kind of stuff comes up all the time and the only solutions I've seen is to either hurl abuse at someone or just politely sit back and bitch about the person when they've left, neither of these options is particularly good in my opinion.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
and Tonya thank you for your response, it is very constructive and makes a good point.
Generally the only people I wouldn't want back in a session I'm in are belligerent drunkards or people who aren't humble enough to consider they could actually improve what they are doing. A good musician NEVER stops learning about ITM.
It's the others I am asking about here, the shy learners, the well meaning amateurs and so on, I don't for a minute want to put them off coming to a session but sometimes they need to know when not to play, this particularly applies to backers of any kind. Hurling abuse at or simply ignoring such people is not very constructive, so that's what I'm asking about
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, port, if it was that long ago, then I was probably just starting playing this music and most likely only knew about 10 or 20 tunes. You've obviously had a lot of years of session experience. It was up to you whether to say something to me or not at the time and you chose not to. It's much easier for you to say something now you don't have to talk to me face to face, isn't it? I suppose you've so many years of experience that you can't remember what it was like to be a beginner. Well, I suppose that's how this forum can be of use to you. Rub everyone's noses in their own inexperience and ignorance. Good on ya - hope it makes you feel good.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I think a lot can be done with tact and diplomacy. I know it’s in short supply the world over never mind this site .
Last night my GF sat besides a flute player well out of tune but instead of saying "you are sounding awful get in tune!" she asked “shall we get in tune?”
The other flute player could then with dignity ask for help and her opinion.
Option B - get in a huff until loosing temper and having a scene never occurred to her. Unfortunately it’s the first option for many people.
Peace and love people
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
it wasn't actually that long ago, from your concertina playing at the time I could tell you were far from a beginner on that instrument, you seem to have missed the fact that I actually complimented you on your conertina playing.
I do remember what it was like to be a beginner, fortunately it was only when I was good enough to play in a non-beginners session that my parents brought me to one. Funny thing is it is almost never a young kid that causes these problems, it's usually someone who played another type of music beforehand and thinks ITM is easy to just 'jam along with'.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I have a different sort of problem with the premise of this thread - who exactly *is* a session-wrecker?
Those who have posted implying that they could never be such a person seem to me be exhibiting a type of arrogance. Because I don't believe there's anyone at all, not matter how good, who is not capable of wrecking an otherwise perfectly good session, given the right circumstances. The factors influencing this could be beer, mood, a temporary failure of social graces or whatever.
I suppose there are some people whom one would never like to see at one's own session. But, even then, other people may have a different view of them.
And, from my own point of view, whilst some people are very complimentary about my playing, others are not - well, myself and, spectacularly, one other in my experience. So, I could not be arrogant enough to assume that I am *always* a positive contributor. I just try to get better ... always ...
I am also aware that there will be some here who, because I have admitted that I may be human, will assume that in fact I'm crap and that they, because they could never be anything other than a positive contribution wherever they go, are invincible.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Ok maybe I sound arrogant in giving out about people, but I hope I've enough experience to know when not to play in a session and very often I won't play if there are
(a) too many pipers/guitarists already
(b) the general style is different to what I'm used to
(c) two or three musicians of such outstanding quality that it's better to listen than to play.
I don't claim to be the best piper or fiddler on the planet and I know I'm not the best backer, yet I do have a very good understanding of this music brought on by many years playing with and learning from true master musicians. I just worry sometimes that there are too many people who take a lazy approach to ITM, think it's a nice little hobby and so on, ITM has always been an essential part of life to a lot of people in Ireland, particularly Clare where I'm from. We take it very seriously, it is more than a mere hobby, it is a way of life, sure it is often an amateur way of life, some of the best players are/were amateurs, but these people never considered it a casual hobby, they devoted hours and hours of each day to it. I hate to see the music that we have developed over centuries ruined by a bunch of hobbyists and/or musical tourists who think this is simple music that any old fool can play along too.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I wouldn't really call myself a beginner now, port, but if I was playing bouzouki when you saw me, I would definitely have been just beginning with my concertina, and my session experience would have been very limited indeed.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
would you have been a beginner around two or three years ago? that's when i'm talking about, you seemed like you knew how to play the concertina then and there was nothing wrong per se with your bouzouki playing aside from the fact that I wasn't keen on the style you used and also the fact that you would sporadically use it when there was already other backers playing along in completely different styles to you (and each other I might add) this was not my favourite session ever I have to say!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'd be interested to know if this was a session in Australia or elsewhere. 2 years ago I would have been playing for 3 years. So yes, I was definitely a beginner, and at that time my session experience was very limited. It still is, I suppose, but less so since I now go to a session every week. Not only would I never back when someone else is backing, I don't even play backing at all now, so you don't have to worry. There's a lot I regret about my first few years of playing, but I think it's a process a musician has to go through. Especially a musician who has not had the benefit of being brought up in Clare, and who has not had access to "true master musicians". Hopefully I'll be a better musician when I have enough years of playing behind me, as you clearly have. Perhaps not though. I'm afraid Irish music is a mere hobby for me. It's a hobby that I enjoy, but it's not the music of my culture, so I don't think it'll ever be a way of life for me as it is for you. Never mind, I'll still enjoy learning about it. And I'll enjoy playing with my friends here in Sydney, regardless of their ability.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well it certainly wasn't in Australia, I've never been there!
May I kindly suggest that if you've only been playing for five years then you have a LONG way to go before you have the knowledge to make sound comments on ITM, I don't care how many tunes you've learnt and how many sessions you've played in for these five years. When I'd been playing for five years I was perhaps 8 or 9 years old, it was only when I was in my 20's that I felt I'd even come close to understanding what this music is all about.
So good luck to you in your hobby but if you treat it as nothing more than a mere hobby and have only five years playing experience then may I suggest you refrain from making so many judgemental comments on this site!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I don't mind new people(players) by any means..
It's only when they park a marching bass drum in the middle of the circle and and pull out sheet music....Then we all scratch our head and wonder what kind of magic is going to come from this thing....
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've been playing in sessions long enough to have met a few musicians like you, port. Ones who think they're so above everyone else that they have nothing to learn from lesser musicians or ones who have not been playing as long.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
again Dow you haven't read my posts clearly enough. I never said 'lesser' musicians can't teach me anything. I often learn new tunes and hear about new players/recordings from any decent musician and I would never describe any person as 'lesser' than me in any way. I just don't think someone with so little experience in ITM as you has any justification for making so many judgemental comments on this site.
You'll probably reply that I shouldn't be making any myself either, but given my experience and knowledge of this music I've much more legitimacy in doing so than you do. In fact this whole experience with you has left me wondering if most of the people who disagree with me here have as little experience in ITM as you. I'm not saying I know it all by any means but from what I can tell the people who are tending to agree with me are experienced/well rounded musicians who take ITM very seriously.
Overall I hope you enjoy this music and it enhances your life, I don't mean to ruin your enjoyment of it, perhaps you have been temporarily offended and hurt by what I've said about you. If so I apologise, however I think in time the more you learn about ITM the more you and others like you will learn to understand where I'm coming from particularly regarding my views on the old (correct) ways of tuning/playing and the role of backers.
You see this whole thing is why I posted this discussion, if you and I were in a session right now we'd likely be at each others throats. This way if we do happen to meet again somewhere down the line perhaps we'll both have learnt a bit better about how to react in a session when someone does/plays/says something we completely disagree with
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I do understand where you're coming from with the tuning/backing issues. I just don't agree with a lot of what you say. Obviously you don't value my opinion because I haven't been playing long. The fact that you don't value my opinions doesn't really worry me to be honest. It certainly doesn't "ruin my enjoyment of the music". Nor does it "temporarily offend or hurt me". In fact I think it rather sad, because you know what I said earlier in this thread about you not listening and not taking on board what others have to say? Well, you've just proven my point quite satisfyingly.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
and again perhaps the reason you don't agree with a lot of what I say is because you haven't enough experience of ITM in all its guises to FULLY understand where I'm coming from. I value everyones opinion, that's why I ask these things. I value some opinions less than others though particularly when they are opinions of people who don't know enough about a subject to really comment on it.
At this stage I've tried to be nice about it, I've even apologised if I offended you but it appears you are too stubborn to even accept that point and are immune to being offended, so with no fear of offending you I'll say Dow, you really don't know what you are talking about. Come back to me in 20 years when you might have learnt enough about ITM to be able to talk knowledgeably about it. That's the last I'll say about this. Feel free to get the last word in if you must, just remember the last word isn't always the best one.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've had recent experiences with people logging in to this site using a new screen name and taking pot shots at me or winding me up. I've no reason to believe you're anything else but a windup merchant. Your windup threads are great, btw, well done.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
particularly regarding my views on the old (correct) ways of tuning/playing and the role of backers. posts Portnapucai.
What old CORRECT ways of tuning/playing, and the role of backers?
Back in the 60's there were no RULES, only Johnny come latelys invented them, I do not know when. I was complaininmg about these mythical rules recently on another thread, when I said that such daft attitudes only served to put people off, and stop attending sessions. Back in the late 60s if someone had mentioned the "role of backers" you would have laughed at them, in the early 70s you could have legitimately taken stronger measures, such as a punishment beating.
If there are two guitarists playing, it makes perfect sense to play a zouk instead. And if there are 4 bodhrans, don't play every tune, unless there are about 8 other "musicians". those are not correct roles, just common sense.
And as I keep saying poor Frankie Kennedy asked me to teach him the whistle, on which I only knew one tune. Three years later he knew more about ITM than I will ever know, even after 40 odd years of playing at sessions. Not to mention a load of kids throughout the world who are all better versed in ITM than me.
Age does not necessarily bring experience. It can bring a snide attitude.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Portnabpucai has had 40 years of session playing but has contributed just three recent discussions, all of them from a negative standpoint. Portnabpucai, I would politely suggest that you try adopting a more positive, persuasive approach. Tell us about the good things in your musical experience, not about the bad stuff that in your opinion is always messing things up.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
How man, Amadeus man, hadawa 'n sh*te!
Bliss is right - I've known several young musicians who have taken up a new instrument and within months become far more competent on it than people who've been playing for twenty years or more. And I'm not just talking technical competency - musical empathy is far more important.
Come on Portnabpucai - there must have been some good times in the last 40 years, or you wouldn't keep going to sessions.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Port: "When I'd been playing for five years I was perhaps 8 or 9 years old...."
So that means he started playing possibly when he was 3.
I find this very difficult to believe. In fact I don't. My wee boy Fergus is 4 and a half, and he is very bright. He can tell the time, looking at where the little hand and the big hand are, and he can read and write several short to medium sized words, something many adults can't do. But he can't play an instrument (yet.)
This thing that has come up about the music as a hobby. I think you'll find that most people on this site are so-called "Hobby musicians" but I don't think they have anything less than absolute love for the music. That's the case with me, and I wish there were more hours in the day so that I could do a day's work, do some sport, come home and do family things as well as practice and go out to sessions 6 nights a week, but unfortunately my and probably many others here's lives are not like that.
>I hate to see the music that we have developed over centuries ruined by a bunch of hobbyists and/or musical tourists who think this is simple music that any old fool can play along too.
Lucky you if you the time to dedicate rest of the non-working hours of your life to the music. Many regulars here also do not have much respect for people who think they can easily switch from classsical/rock&roll to this music. But you don't have to be from Clare to be the only type of person who has some idea about this music.
To answer the original question simply without any further character assasination attempts, upon anyone, surely you must divine the level of the session first. If there are sufficient new or learner players, then democracy should be employed. Play down to that level. If it is a high flying star studded session, most learners would be too scared to play anyway. those that do get their foot in the door with a set one week then continue to play the same set(s) week after week might easily be jokingly asked "Give us another set" or some such. There are ways of going about this. If it is the same boor who plays his quota of sets drowning everyone else out and regularly wrecking the session that way, then radical surgery has to be employed, as happened in the Blythe Hill tavern a while back - see the notes pertaining to the BHT on here - strangely enough that was the one time Dow turned up. The Kant in question got told by me where to go, and has since made only sporadic visits, but I pointedly did not play along with him till he has by now (we all hope) finally got the message.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Hey Dow! walk away from the old crack pot! clearly port is caught up in his misguided inflated self importance. Maybe he should have a good long look at himself in the mirror and play tunes at home if he gets so worked up about "inferior musicians" at a sesuin! Port you never stop learning, get your head out of you know what and enjoy the music!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
portnabpucai,
It seems impossible to say to anyone who cares about the music they play that they're fighting against the spirit of the music. And as you insist that people really should care about the music they play then you seem to have set your own self-perpetuating, self-fulfilling prophecy.
All I can suggest is that if the reason you need to speak to them is because your enjoyment is of greater importance to you than that of the other person, then it sounds to me as if you're stuck between your desire to be selfish and your manners. If you actually want to use your experience in the spirit of the social bonding of the music and help the person improve; talk to them, find out about their experiences, how long they've been playing. Try to decide what you like about what they do so you can say positive things about their playing and encourage them. Even if it's only, "wow, you're sounding really good for someone who's only been playing......"
Is it possible to hear any examples of your playing, it's always nice when people who claim to have many years of experience are able to back it up through sharing your music.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well put Andy. Every village, town, City has a few people keepingthe music going, not just in Ireland, but all over the world now, which is great. Those people have one duty. To pass the music on, and you can't do that by having rules, especially ones like "you don't know anything unless you have been playing for 30 years". That is not going to help.
We are, as Leonard Cohen once put it, merely "passing through".
My greatest claim to contributing to ITM is that I have helped to pass the music on, even by playing a humble bodhran. I take immense pride from that. That is all any of us are doing.
The idea of someone being on a pedestal is certainly new, and unwelcome. I admit that the humble bodhran means I can join in with whoever, Molloy, Burke etc etc, and I am not going to cause offence. But my sruggles on mandolin and such enable me to appreciate great "musicians" at sessions who are willing to fulfil their role, that of encouragement in an effort to pass the music on.
That is the only "role" any of us should be interested in.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
In short, if great players have time for me, struggling on a mandolin, no idea of theory, let that be an example to all. It is a hobby for most, let's enjoy it without making it something sacred.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'm definitely at risk (and have several times) become one of those people who does the inadvertent "ruining", mostly because I don't get enough session opportunities where I live.
For those of us that aren't trying to suck, seriously, just lean over and say what we're doing wrong. I, personally want to learn, and feel wayyy more awkward when I realize that I'm making it less enjoyable for other people, and not knowing quite what I'm doing wrong (having vague ideas, maybe, but you know). Unless the person is generally haughty and bad at the same time...just politely tell them (I wouldn't think it was condescending if it came from someone that knew what they were tlaking about).
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Hey Port'
I have played with Dow in sessions and in one on one situations over the last 10 years and I do not in any way find him lacking in either his talent or ability on whatever instrument is in his hands.
Perhaps you have him confused with another?
I can't say the same for you as I have no idea who you are - but the veiled reference to knowing Dow and hearing him play and judging him as a rank amateur is a bit rich if you are not going to actually declare to him (onscreen or off) where and when you have met him
Otherwise I could also post a slanderous thread about how your fiddle playing would be good if you were in tune, and your pipes sound like you are using aluminium reeds and you have a tendency towards conservative politics...none of which may be true - but I think you should cull your attitude.
Can't say anything nice - say fckall.
PS Dow has NEVER ruined a session or party that I have attended.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
pocahontas - or whatever your name is. You claim to have this *experience* but in my limited trad experience you are full of hot air! Put up or shut up my friend. Seriously. Dow has been playing concertina for 5 years and in my humble opinion is doing a *fantasic* job. He may say its a just a hobby - but I know better. He is passionate about tunes. And ive heard many people who have been play 40+ years who are sh*te.
"Oh look at me! Ive been playing for 20 years (or whatever) and therefore Whaterver I say is right and you are all wrong. Oh my god - how dare that Dow say anything - he has only been playing trad for 7 years! Oh my god"
bbbbrrrrrr - I'll say chilly wind Bren. So easy mr Pokie - whatever your name is to blast isults at peoples playing from behind your screen name. Mate - if it comes down to it "I'd rather swallow razor blades than to drink (play a tune) with you. I'd choose Dow over and over again, because - he's a great muso - and a great guy and a supportive musician to learners. A general all round nice guy.....not something we could say about you is it!!!!! Am i Slagging this time?....
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've had about 30mins to calm down after my initial post. And I realise that after your few posts Pokie ......That you dont actually have a clue. In all my years on this website - Ive never seen anyone actually slag off another persons playing...very clever. If it turned out you were actually a really good musician (which I doubt) I'd still think you were probably the saddest person ever to taint this website. Good on you. But seriously - we've all been going throught the people we know from clare who play pipes and fiddle....and we've come to the conclusion that not only are you a windup merchant.....you dont actually know anything about tunes.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
If you're still reading this load of twaddle, port, take no notice. You're new here, you dip your toe in the water and you get ganged up on and your mind read. Par for the course. You didn't observe the club protocol but you weren't to know that. Truly, I feel your pain. This bunch know what I'm talking about.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Steve, even though you are fairly new (again) to the board - I'd even believe that you would not be so low as to slag another person who is on this boards playing. Its really low. And may I just say again - Dow is a fantastic tune player. And I dont just say that lightly.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I agree that it's really low to slag off another person's playing but don't many of us slag off other members here because of their choice of instruments? The implication being that they might not be that musical if they choose a bodhran, are merely backers etc. Surely, this is unjustified too?
We also criticise the abilities or particular performances of "known" players who may well read this forum and/or post here under a pseudonym.
Of course, I use the word "we" collectively here and not with reference to any individual members although I admit to being guilty of some of the above myself in the past. Hopefully, not too often and mostly either in jest or, at least, in a constructive manner.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, There's been a lot of slagging of port on this thread from people who have only the very slenderest idea of what makes him tick (we may never find out now, and a true aficionado of ITM may be lost to us because of all the contumely) and shame on all of you who have joined in. It's oh so easy when you're writing to an internet list innit. And I warned you that if anyone mentioned Glee Club again I'd resume my role as commandant.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
The thing is - why would anyone bother spending their time on this site if they didnt love the tunes. And the worst thing you could ever do is slag someone about their tune playing. Its really out of line. And to be honest...why do it? Is Dow at your session Pokie?? Is he there annoying you every week? If he was then take him aside and tell him. But he isnt. You just thought you'd openly slag him on a huge website because it makes you feel better. I really just dont get it. Dow has never made an album, he's never joined a group and he has never played on stage -all of which puts him out there to be slagged. But he has never done that - maybe because he feels he isnt up to standard? Who knows - I think he is. So what is in it for you? Seriously -does it make you feel better? Youve just lost a big chunk of potential friends around the world.....are you happy? If so - good on you. Guess its cheaper than drugs or even a pint.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Steve, youre right - people do that all the time, I never have, because I like a good bodhran, backer, fiddle player, uillean pipe player etc. But - as you just agreed with - we dont slag another member of the site...its just plain low. And you know, if it was even vaguely true...its still not cool. But Dow is really a talented person - Truely really bloody good. I dont want to give him a big head - but it needs to be said.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Of course, I believe that Portnabpucai is entitled to his opinion even although I don't necessarily agree with how he presents it here.
However, I'm inclined to agree with Dow and a few others that he might not entirely be a "newbie" here. His attitude comes over as over confident to say the least, if not arrogant.
His arrival here seems to mirror that of the people he complains about who enter real life sessions.
Perhaps, a new topic could be
"How do you politely stop someone ruining The Session.org Board?"
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Unless I've missed it - and I've just re-read this entire thread to try and make sure I *didn't* miss anything - portnabpucai actually didn't criticise Dow's tune playing.
Have I missed it? Could someone quote where he said it? 'Cos I can't see it for the life of me.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Oh, come on Steve, you and Pukey aren't thonly ones to suffer the wrath of indignation from org.ers. I got into trouble not long after I started on here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1127/comments#comment17649
It is possible to rehabilitate yourself here and I for one believe in redemption, as both you and I may well have done.
But I have to agree with bb here, giving out about someone's playing is almost a taboo on here - and so it should be.
Pukey, if you're such an accomplished musician why do you feel the need to knock someone else? That is a fall from grace. And if you *are* such an accomplished musician you might want to consider that you can afford to leave the pipes fiddle and guitar down for a while and brush up on your online tact and diplomacy.
As for Dow, he is no online angel either. He is a really nice guy in real life but can be a pain at times here. but at least he speaks his mind and maybe a some people don't like to hear that. And be careful who you're slagging cos people might just rally round the underdog:
"He may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch."
Cordell Hull, US Secretary of State from 1933-1944.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Benhall:
"....and I think you're a fine concertina player, not too pushed about your bouzouki playing but I didn't say it at the time...."
"....your bouzouki playing aside from the fact that I wasn't keen on the style you used and also the fact that you would sporadically use it when there was already other backers playing along in completely different styles to you...."
not exactly ripping Dow's playing to shreds, but I certainly wouldn't address another player like that on here.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'm not bothered about the comments about my playing. That's fair enough. I'm happy to take criticism from anyone as long as it's not behind my back. This is about as public as you can get, so fair play. Bring it on. In the past, criticism has always spurred me on to become a better player. I've always made a point of turning negative comments into a positive thing for myself, and I'm pretty sure I'm on record here encouraging others to do the same.
No it's not that that wound me up, it was the idea that I shouldn't even be on this discussion board being "judgemental" given that I've not been playing long. Well, I admit to having made judgements on the playing of famous musicians during my time here on the session. But whenever I've done so I've always said why I don't like their playing and I've been very specific about stuff like which track on a CD bothers me and tried to pinpoint what it is that grates, for the sake of interesting discussion on musical interpretation. I haven't just said "so-and-so is crap". I would never say that someone's a crap musician. We all know that once you get to a certain level and you have your technique sorted out, it all boils down to personal taste. So to be honest I don't see what the fuss is about.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"I admit to having made judgements on the playing of famous musicians during my time here on the session."
Maybe port is right and it's not for me to say anything. I dunno. That's kind of like a philosophical issue isn't it? Should people who review movies all, at some point, have been the best actor/director/producer/cameraman of their time? That's a pretty tough call - you'd have to have one hell of a CV.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It doesn't matter if Dow can play or not, and it would seem that he can. It is this overbearing "you know nothing unless you have been playing for 30 years" attitude that is at fault here. Substitute a real newcomer for Dow, and imagine the impact.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Be polite at all times.
In the best concrete-boots tradition say something like "Sorry about this, sir, but nothing personal, you understand?", and then do whatever is necessary.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Fair enough on the zouk comment suppose, Danny, and I agree, I probably wouldn't comment on another .orger's playing like that (unles, like Alex, they had asked people to comment). It's just I thought it was pretty mild, and the bit I had picked up was port's obvious admiration for Dow's concertina playing. So, I thought some of the comments back were a bit over the top ... not putting it stronger than that ...
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
This thread was going swimmingly and even amusingly until Dow's upping of the ante with his "I have a good answer for this..." thingie. I honestly don't think that was necessary and, OK, the guy may have misjudged things a bit with his ripostes but that's what you get here innit when the hawks start a-circling. Oh yes, we can do that here. He did not deserve all this and I hope he continues to have the dignity (lacking in this thread in general) to say nowt else for a while. A quick read back over the thread will reveal that he's been slagged off (ugh) far more vituperously than anything he said himself about anyone else. Who do you think y'all are, Seamus bloody Tansey?
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"May I kindly suggest that if you've only been playing for five years then you have a LONG way to go before you have the knowledge to make sound comments on ITM, I don't care how many tunes you've learnt and how many sessions you've played in for these five years. When I'd been playing for five years I was perhaps 8 or 9 years old, it was only when I was in my 20's that I felt I'd even come close to understanding what this music is all about."
Benhall -Are serious that he wasnt being offensive ? you have only my word on this.....Dow is really good. And I ever say is "PUT UP OR SHUT UP".,,,,,
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Oh, no -but seriously by Pokies masterfiul take on the music.....I must be amazing,,,,I am always out of tune.............thank god!!! I Knew there was a reason. Actually all this time.... I was right - and you all were wrong...ccccoooollllll!!!!!!!!!
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Thank you bb, I am the one who leapt to defend Dow, because of the mass generalisation of port's statement, not because I like Dow, who obviously is a sworn enemy, although a better concertina and zouk player than me.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a thread???
Someone take the bottle away from bb, she's sluring her writing...
I can't understand the necessity to build up ones own pedestal, teetering as it is likely to be if made up of fantasies and generalizations about age and experience ~ on what pretense or proof? Some of the wisest, considerate and least pretentious folks I've known have been young, while many of the worst a**holes have been old farts... On the whole, the gems I've known, characters rich in the tradition, never put on airs and never felt it necessary to talk themselves up or someone else down. They were great listeners and had patience for and interest in others, whatever level of skill or experience they had, or whether or not they were another musician or dancer. They were interested and respected others, whatever their age or background. They didn't tend to make comparisons and judgements between themselves and anyone else, why bother? In their company you were made to feel welcome and equal, not inferior and unworthy... Yeah, there is always the exception, I've known a few. In those few cases, however good the musician may have been or thought they were, or however steeped in tradition they were in reality or in fantasy, rather than kneel before them as they might have expected ~ I'd move on. There were always better people for me to spend time with and learn from. The majority of those folks I've been blessed with being able to share time, life, music and dance with never were moved to belittle me, to make me feel inadequate, however poor my skills, understanding or experience may have been in reality. Why do that anyway, to increase your own worth by lessening that of others?
Having had the pleasure of Dow / Mark's company, and he passing my wife's BS and a**hole filter (which is the best I've ever known), he has only proved to be considerate, patient, caring and open... He has become a friend to us both, first in the virtual sense, via this site. He is ever seeking to further his understanding of the music, and not for his own edification, but so he can do it justice and better promote and share it, better play it... He isn't full of himself and definitely does not think he knows it all Yeah, he winds me up sometimes, but I take that as being in my vein of tease, I only tease people I like and appreciate... I admit, he has his moods, and sometimes he winds up the wrong people the wrong way. He has a passion for this music, and as passionately he would defend anyone's right to appreciation and involvement in it ~ with consideration for the wider context of what this tradition is about, with respect and consideration for others, the social craic... There are some topics that will fire that passion, as has obviously happened here...
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
portnabpucai: "It can be a pleasure to tell someone who is an obviously rude and ignorant person to get the **** out of a session, or do as one person I know did to a particularly ignorant guitarist, cut their strings off when they go to the toilet!"
c: I've been pressed to that extreme and I've never found it pleasurable... I would never ever do disrespect to another's instrument...
portnabpucai: "But what do you do about someone who is either quiet/shy or genuinely friendly or local to the area? The general thing tends to be to say nothing and just live with it, but this can lead to the ruination of either a brilliant one off session or more importantly a regular session because such people will come back week after week presuming they are doing nothing wrong. They never learn if no one tells them they are doing something wrong.
Some of you may suggest politely telling the person that they should learn more before joining in, but this can come across as condescending
So what do you all do about this kind of situation without coming across as rude and//or condescending?"
c: If it is truly a social occassion, and you all know each other, you talk, you incorporate 'education' in the function of this thing you have a passion for. You don't sit on it and let it fester... If you show respect and consideration for another it should mean you have an opening to help them to better understand what this thing is all about, the greater context. What better gift can you give than your own experience ~ the tradition as it has been handed down for ages ~ not as a judgement, but as a sharing of understanding. What greater gift than to raise their understanding, improve their playing and respect for this thing we are supposed to care about... "THING"? ~ It isn't a thing, it is PEOPLE!!! The problem is when what is most important is the twiddles, fancy bits and acrobatics, or the accumulation of tunes, the quantity... I know that is the case for some, but for me it is first about people... Respecting that makes the transfer of tradition more probable, not egocentric but social...my preference...
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Christ (can I say that) what a cliquey lot some of you are. Please don't come to my Session. We've had it ruined by long in the tooth talented old bigots in the past. Also by the odd hogger - knows a 25 minute set of reels and won't stop. With these folk we engage them in conversation, usually to impress them with our superior intellect, sometimes to ask what the name of the eigth tune in the set was and do they normally play the F as a sharp in bar 5? We then buy a round and include them. By that stage thay are putty in our hands.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
bb You previously said that portnabpucai had "slagged off Dow's playing." I just pointed out that he hadn't, with the exception of a very mild reference to Dow's zouk playing not being to his taste. And even *that* was only after having said how good his concertina playing was. The passage you quoted above didn't slag off Dow's playing. It was an expression of something much expressed in trad circles - the idea of 'paying one's dues'.
I never said he wasn't being offensive, but then you didn't accuse him of that previously. Let's leave the goalposts where they were, shall we?
And - and here's where I feel I'm either being brave, or foolish to stick my neck out, but I think it needs to be said - I have found various others' comments on this thread (let alone other threads) to be much more offensive that portnabpucai's. And that's even though I accept Danny's point that I personally probably wouldn't have mentioned that Dow's zouk playing wasn't to my taste.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
As a quiet/shy mainly lurker on this site, it distresses me to see all this posturing and pontificating going on here at the moment. I feel that almost everyone has lost the plot. We are ALL passionate about Irish traditional music, or we would not be here, and even if you are quiet and shy (as I am, stated again just so you know), it doesn't make you any less passionate. Nor does it matter where you are at in the heirarchy of the music (and don't be tricked into thinking that there isn't one, and a jealously guarded one at that), at the humble beginnings, perpetual learnership, or at the perceived or actual top (whereever that may be).
Whether it is intentional or not, a lot of posturing and positioning goes on on this site. Hey, it is great site and it is global, it even comes to me in my loungeroom in Central Australia (as if you didn't already know). I love to keep my passion for the music burning through this site, it is how I keep in contact, however pitifully, and deep down I really love youse all. No kidding.
There is, however, a great tendency for EVERYONE who contributes and lurks here to actual or feinted hurt and to the accidental or intentional misinterpretation or what have you in the struggle of contributors fer survival or standing in the community, even here, on what is logically just a yellaboard where people supposedly can come to share a love of the tunes no matter what their level of competence or commitment.
It distresses me greatly to see newbies to this site jumped upon and put in line, as it similarly distresses me to see old regulars dissed on by those who have, or have not (who am I to judge from my insular castle in Central Oz) got some kindda bone to pick. It is ALL so unnecessary. It doesn't make for pleasurable lurking - just to take an egocentrical view of the carryons from my insular perspective. Actually, it detracts from this site and everything that (in my humble opinion) it means to me!
Now, as I have said before, just so you know, I am of the quiet/shy type, who once, out of a burning passion for the music, ruined a real life session and sent it packing underground so fast, simply because I wanted to be in it, and turned up at it. I used to ride my bike nearly 50km round trip in order just to be there. I wanted to live and breathe the music, yet some people made judgement, even in far flung Oz, that I didn't have the right or couldn't make the grade (but who are they to lay judgement on me?) I did not then, and still do not, want to be a perpetual beginner. What I have got in the real world and also, alas from this site, is a lot of unhelpful twaddle. Don't do this. Go away. You are excluding yourself. Only do such and such if you are an expert. Very very negative, dare I say it. Very very negative indeed. Where is the positive gals and guys?
My thanks to those who have been positive, friendly and genuinely helpful over the years - thank heavens for you is all I can say. I am, of course, not referring to you.
I even tried twice to be removed from this yellaboard, but both times I didn't even get the courtesy of a reply. It seems that the sentence to this site is a life one, unless Jeremy wishes it otherwise. So as a quiet/shy person who is regularly jumped on any time I raise my head out of lurkdom here, quietly, and as an aside to you over a pint at the bar, you are ruining the only session I have with your own petty carry ons.
So guys and gals, what I am trying to say is cool down, don't spoil thesession.org with your cliquey bikering, and don't ruin the only ITM session that I have got. You are all bigfish in my eyes and I love youse dearly (again, in case you missed it the first time).
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Flippin' Nora, bb. Now listen here. I know that you yourself are a superlative player of ITM. I am in awe. You say that Dow is one of the best. I believe you. Why wouldn't I? If I could play like you I'd want people to trust my judgement and I trust yours. One day I'd love to show the bugger that a harmonica need pay no deference to a concertina. What I do know about the feller is that he's more than capable of dishing it out AND speaking up for himself, sarky bugger though he may be. Teks one to know one, eh, Dow mate! So bb, would you please desist from lashing out every time someone has a little pop at him. He sets himself up a bit at times but he lives and breathes and squeezes another day. It's the tunes what counts. It's an internet list, not gladiators in the Colosseum. And you refer to port being my best friend or whatever you said. I should like to politely inform you that I don't even know whether portnapucai is a boy or a girl.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Anyway, Dow has all those spiffin' Northumbrian chunes, many of which I play meself. Lovely stuff. I'm aiming to be the next Will Atkinson. Well, he lived till he was 93 and he was playing his mouth-organ to the last so I have a few years to get to his level. Don't tell my wife I'm planning to live beyond 93. I hate to think how she'll react when she finds out all the policies are useless.
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining anything if that's their intention?
I know I'm being repetitive, but, 'it' has always been and will remain with me ~ all about people, that is the first 'count', it's the people that count first. So, small fish agreeing with bigfish, maybe we need to crack a nice bottle of brew and share out the burn, and for the pioneers amongst us a good cuppa, tea in the Irish fashion, or weaker if needs be... Sometimes that pause is all it takes to bring us around to some semblance of sanity?
Nice goal Steve, Will Atkinson is a favourite, lovely stuff... Good luck with it... 'Clear Drops', there will always be a place and a welcome for you somewhere... Be patient where others lack it, there's no way any of us can know the full history and motivations behind another... We all have our limits and our madness...
NOTE: ~ despite any other faults, I've never belonged to a clique or cult, and no one could ever accuse me of being 'exclusive', an integral part of the definition of 'clique'... If anything, I often end up being devil's advocate, something I need to be warry of, as I will usually take sides with the minority, whether that is measured in numbers or ego-quotient...
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Getting back to the topic, every session usually has a singer or two. Have them learn "the Spoons Murder" by Con Fada O'Driscol.
It tells the tale of an unwelcome spoons player who imposes himself on a session and ruins the session with his "ugly mechanical noise". It then goes humourously on at some length to describe a lethal assault on the spoons player with a bicycle.
Its quite funny and if the cap fits the imposing player might take the hint.
How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
We all love playing in sessions, they are great social occasions and can be great musical occasions. However I'm sure most of you will agree that there's nothing worse than having a potentially great 'musical' session ruined by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing. I'm not going to isolate any instrument in this discussion because it can actually happen with any instrument and not just the ones that are usually given out about.
It can be a pleasure to tell someone who is an obviously rude and ignorant person to get the **** out of a session, or do as one person I know did to a particularly ignorant guitarist, cut their strings off when they go to the toilet!
But what do you do about someone who is either quiet/shy or genuinely friendly or local to the area? The general thing tends to be to say nothing and just live with it, but this can lead to the ruination of either a brilliant one off session or more importantly a regular session because such people will come back week after week presuming they are doing nothing wrong. They never learn if no one tells them they are doing something wrong.
Some of you may suggest politely telling the person that they should learn more before joining in, but this can come across as condescending
So what do you all do about this kind of situation without coming across as rude and//or condescending?
p.s. I know I can come off rude or condescending on this site but that's probably just my frustration coming out of situations like the ones described above. Who knows, if someone comes up with a good suggestion I may even be polite from now on here.........then again
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I think most people would rather be told if they are doing something wrong than have people muttering about them behind their backs.
When I was starting out on the accordion I was told by a good friend of mine that I shounded sh!te. So after swallowing my pride I decided to do a great deal more practising and made sure I was more or less up to speed when I next brought out the box. I doubt it was much better, to be honest, but I was glad to be told up front that I needed to do a lot of work.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, I've been on the receiving end of this in my younger(if not young days) and I'd probably have considered myself to be one of the "quiet/shy or genuinely friendly or local to the area" types, although like most people (I''m very sure) I have occasionally been indiscreet after a few drinks. Happens to us all, I'd argue. "Never trust a (wo)man who doesn't take a drink"
The worst experience I had was when a piano accordion player stormed off to the bar in the huff and shouted "If you're gonnae strum that F***ing thing, then use a softer bl**dy pick!"
It wasn't very nice and I reckon some of the other musicians felt for me a bit. However, I did learn to be a lot more subtle and also realised (But many of these strummers still don't) that you don't need to strum all six strings at a time either.
Much more helpful, however, is if one of the company suggests something like "Have you tried doing it this way....?" or similar. Or, "a little bit of "this or that" here would be nice" and so on.
Then, the "offending" or "improving" musician will feel welcome and, hopefully, take heed if he/she wants to remain part of the proceedings.
One time, I had to borrow a guitar from a guy to "do a song" and returned it to him *in tune*. He still didn't realise why I suddenly felt the urge to sing that night, mind you!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"When there is a pause between tunes, could you please not start playing show tunes and pop classics on your squeezebox in keys that half of the people in the room can't play along with."
Somewhere Over The Rainbow... Sheesh!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by robharper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
You could tell them about this website and in particular this discussion. But that might not make any difference as denial would probably kick in. "Ha! that sounds bad. Thank god they're not talking about ME!"
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Confiscate their goatskin.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Be careful what tunes you lift up for criticism. "Somewhere over the Rainbow" was one of Johnny Cunningham's favorite tunes, and friends of his still play it sometimes in local sessions around here.
The best way to deal with a situation like you describe is to focus on telling a person how they can get better, rather than focusing on how bad they are. Don't tell them they stink, tell them they have a long way to go. And be honest, it hurts less in the long run.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've never understood this question. It's nice to be polite to people who are polite. But ruining as session is one of the most impolite things I can think of. And it makes no difference if they are doing it in ignorance.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"Ignorance of the Law (Session rules) is no excuse......"
Sheriff Llig has spoken.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"I hereby sentence you to six months down at The Royal Oak!"
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It's true though. The only thing is not to sink down to their level. So Al's approach is probably best. But I find it hard to actually communicate with a session wrecker as I know I have a short fuse. So I leave it to calmer people or write emails if possible.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I completely agree with Michael.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Actually I agree. And often it can particularly be miconstrued that you are being a bully. And there's the other one also where if I tell someone like it is, they just shrug it off because I'm a grumpy tw@t and think I don't really mean it. So yes, I do my best to get someone else to do the deed.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It's this assumption that certain people have, that because it is an "open" session they think they have the inalienable right to march in and thump or clack or whatever, away, without knowing anything about what really makes this music tick. Most half-decent sessions are really only "open" to those who can contribute significantly. Non-musos sitting in the allotted session space is another one that gets on my mammaries, though often this is deffo through blissful ignorance.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Of course, you can try the old trick of
"There won't be a sesion today because of the football"
and they might just go away.
http://www.footstompin.com/forum?threadid=48587
I have a sneaky feeling this is what happened on this occasion.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Danny is right that the "open" in "open session" can sometimes be over-egged, but on the other hand open sessions are inherently unpredictable, uncontrollable free-for-alls, often likened to a musical brawl. If you go, you let yourself in for that.
So the solution might be just to get over yourself.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
>So the solution might be just to get over yourself.
Bollox. I'm sick of putting up with twa ts. I imagine michael and port...thingy are as well.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Strangely enough, we had exactly this problem at the session tonight. Some guy squeezed himself into the group and picked up my mate's bazouki (with his permission). From his initial comments we presumed he was a muso. If he was, it was soon evident he'd never played 'zouk before, and really hadn't a clue what he was doing.
We put up with it for about an hour, until we got into a particularly lively set of polkas. The guitarist was new to the session, but was fitting in very nicely since he actually knew what he was doing, even if he hadn't played these particular tunes before. The zouk mangler didn't, and it got to the point where I thought he might actually break some of the steel strings. He was showing a complete lack of rhythm and absolutely zero empathy for the music.
Eventually the guitarist said "are you going to give that a rest?" (in the middle of the set, while still playing frantically). After some minor verbal to-ing and fro-ing the guy stood up and said "what you're saying is 'f*ck off'", which met with general looks of agreement from all concerned. So he promptly did.
Admittedly he'd had a few before he turned up, and it may even be that he was quite competent on his own instrument, but in this particular case he was becoming a major drain on the session. Normally I'd say live and let live, but in this one case the silver bullet was definately justified. And was done as gently as the situation allowed. You can't win 'em all.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Tell them to try being a caller at barn dances, any idiot can do that.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"Some guy squeezed himself into the group and picked up my mate's bazouki (with his permission)."
Shouldn't your mate have reclaimed his instrument a little sooner? Even if the guy could play, it's bad form to hog somebody else's instrument all night!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
That's because he plays banjo and bazouki, and was busy on the banjo all the time. I have to admit I was truly amazed he didn't punch the guy's lights out (he's a fiery feller from Belfast), but I think he must have been concentrating on the tunes.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Come to think of it, I don't think anyone wanted to break the spell. The sesh was going nicely and was a good enough mix of instruments (banjo / guitar / box / three fiddles & whistle) to cover most of the indiscretions. It only got really bad when what I can only describe as poorly syncopated power chords started...
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I have a good answer for this one but I'm not going to bother saying it because I don't think portnabpucai will bother trying to understand what I've written. I get the impression he/she prefers to tell others about his/her own ideas and is not really interested in hearing other people out. You'd think the opposite given that he/she posted a thread purporting to ask for ideas. Don't be fooled. I'm quite happy to listen. If you listen hard and use your head, all the answers are right there staring you in the face.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
>I get the impression he/she prefers to tell others about his/her own ideas and is not really interested in hearing other people out.
...unlike you, Mark, of course.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Yes, unlike me. I enjoy listening to other people's ideas. I might then trash them and tell them they're talking crap and be really horrible to them, but that's the difference.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
In this and in other recent threads Portnabpucai has given the impression of being a creature of painfully heightened sensibilities. He/she hasn't indicated what gross crime has been perpetrated by the miscreant in this case. The "quiet/shy...local" person might merely have brought in an instrument tuned to equal temperament for all we know. Maybe we should be asking everyone: "Are you local?....this is a local session for local people!"
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by RichardB
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It's no good, Richard. We'll never kill them all
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I dare you to ask port if he wants to buy some pegs.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
To be "a local" here, you have to see the river flowing three times, so it could be years and years or a matter of weeks depending on whether it rains or not!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'm sure there is some rule or other you could call on to exclude offenders
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Clear Drops
... without having to bump 'em off.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It all depends on whether you want to encourage this person or discourage them. If you do not want them playing in the session at all you should tell them. How you do that is up to you although it matters what others in the session want.
If you think they can fit in it actually gets a trickier. Essentially the answer is the same. Is there anyone who is considered the leader at this session? I hope that question is not a windup.
It would be helpful if you commented back on some of these posts. For instance the instrument might determine the response. Do not let the requisite sarcasm of TheSession silence you. Good luck!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Tonya
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Dow, I just made an open call for advice and have yet to make any comments, just because I traded blows with you over another topic doesn't mean I'm not open to ideas on this subject from you or other people. From your response and RichardB's it seems that you casually read my previous posts didn't like what you read because it challenged some of your preconceptions about ITM and so have dismissed me as some kind of crackpot.
I am opinionated, for sure, but funny thing is Dow I've actually been in a session or two with you long ago and I think you're a fine concertina player, not too pushed about your bouzouki playing but I didn't say it at the time because of reasons stated above. I'm actually very friendly in a session and I'm using this forum to bring up topics that I couldn't bring up in a session because people might take offence to them in a session. At least here I can try out my ideas to see what offends and what doesn't
So Dow, maybe now you can answer, what should I have done about the fact that you once chose to play bouzouki at the same time as there were already a least two guitarists playing. In fact since you are a very competent concertina player I really don't understand what would possess you to do such a thing.
And RichardB I haven't indicated what 'gross crime has been perpetrated by the miscreant in this case' because I'm not talking about one particular case, I'm talking about over 40 years of session experience where this kind of stuff comes up all the time and the only solutions I've seen is to either hurl abuse at someone or just politely sit back and bitch about the person when they've left, neither of these options is particularly good in my opinion.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
and Tonya thank you for your response, it is very constructive and makes a good point.
Generally the only people I wouldn't want back in a session I'm in are belligerent drunkards or people who aren't humble enough to consider they could actually improve what they are doing. A good musician NEVER stops learning about ITM.
It's the others I am asking about here, the shy learners, the well meaning amateurs and so on, I don't for a minute want to put them off coming to a session but sometimes they need to know when not to play, this particularly applies to backers of any kind. Hurling abuse at or simply ignoring such people is not very constructive, so that's what I'm asking about
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, port, if it was that long ago, then I was probably just starting playing this music and most likely only knew about 10 or 20 tunes. You've obviously had a lot of years of session experience. It was up to you whether to say something to me or not at the time and you chose not to. It's much easier for you to say something now you don't have to talk to me face to face, isn't it? I suppose you've so many years of experience that you can't remember what it was like to be a beginner. Well, I suppose that's how this forum can be of use to you. Rub everyone's noses in their own inexperience and ignorance. Good on ya - hope it makes you feel good.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I think a lot can be done with tact and diplomacy. I know it’s in short supply the world over never mind this site
.
Last night my GF sat besides a flute player well out of tune but instead of saying "you are sounding awful get in tune!" she asked “shall we get in tune?”
The other flute player could then with dignity ask for help and her opinion.
Option B - get in a huff until loosing temper and having a scene never occurred to her. Unfortunately it’s the first option for many people.
Peace and love people
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bazouki dave
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
it wasn't actually that long ago, from your concertina playing at the time I could tell you were far from a beginner on that instrument, you seem to have missed the fact that I actually complimented you on your conertina playing.
I do remember what it was like to be a beginner, fortunately it was only when I was good enough to play in a non-beginners session that my parents brought me to one. Funny thing is it is almost never a young kid that causes these problems, it's usually someone who played another type of music beforehand and thinks ITM is easy to just 'jam along with'.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I have a different sort of problem with the premise of this thread - who exactly *is* a session-wrecker?
Those who have posted implying that they could never be such a person seem to me be exhibiting a type of arrogance. Because I don't believe there's anyone at all, not matter how good, who is not capable of wrecking an otherwise perfectly good session, given the right circumstances. The factors influencing this could be beer, mood, a temporary failure of social graces or whatever.
I suppose there are some people whom one would never like to see at one's own session. But, even then, other people may have a different view of them.
And, from my own point of view, whilst some people are very complimentary about my playing, others are not - well, myself and, spectacularly, one other in my experience. So, I could not be arrogant enough to assume that I am *always* a positive contributor. I just try to get better ... always ...
I am also aware that there will be some here who, because I have admitted that I may be human, will assume that in fact I'm crap and that they, because they could never be anything other than a positive contribution wherever they go, are invincible.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Ok maybe I sound arrogant in giving out about people, but I hope I've enough experience to know when not to play in a session and very often I won't play if there are
(a) too many pipers/guitarists already
(b) the general style is different to what I'm used to
(c) two or three musicians of such outstanding quality that it's better to listen than to play.
I don't claim to be the best piper or fiddler on the planet and I know I'm not the best backer, yet I do have a very good understanding of this music brought on by many years playing with and learning from true master musicians. I just worry sometimes that there are too many people who take a lazy approach to ITM, think it's a nice little hobby and so on, ITM has always been an essential part of life to a lot of people in Ireland, particularly Clare where I'm from. We take it very seriously, it is more than a mere hobby, it is a way of life, sure it is often an amateur way of life, some of the best players are/were amateurs, but these people never considered it a casual hobby, they devoted hours and hours of each day to it. I hate to see the music that we have developed over centuries ruined by a bunch of hobbyists and/or musical tourists who think this is simple music that any old fool can play along too.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I wouldn't really call myself a beginner now, port, but if I was playing bouzouki when you saw me, I would definitely have been just beginning with my concertina, and my session experience would have been very limited indeed.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
would you have been a beginner around two or three years ago? that's when i'm talking about, you seemed like you knew how to play the concertina then and there was nothing wrong per se with your bouzouki playing aside from the fact that I wasn't keen on the style you used and also the fact that you would sporadically use it when there was already other backers playing along in completely different styles to you (and each other I might add) this was not my favourite session ever I have to say!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'd be interested to know if this was a session in Australia or elsewhere. 2 years ago I would have been playing for 3 years. So yes, I was definitely a beginner, and at that time my session experience was very limited. It still is, I suppose, but less so since I now go to a session every week. Not only would I never back when someone else is backing, I don't even play backing at all now, so you don't have to worry. There's a lot I regret about my first few years of playing, but I think it's a process a musician has to go through. Especially a musician who has not had the benefit of being brought up in Clare, and who has not had access to "true master musicians". Hopefully I'll be a better musician when I have enough years of playing behind me, as you clearly have. Perhaps not though. I'm afraid Irish music is a mere hobby for me. It's a hobby that I enjoy, but it's not the music of my culture, so I don't think it'll ever be a way of life for me as it is for you. Never mind, I'll still enjoy learning about it. And I'll enjoy playing with my friends here in Sydney, regardless of their ability.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well it certainly wasn't in Australia, I've never been there!
May I kindly suggest that if you've only been playing for five years then you have a LONG way to go before you have the knowledge to make sound comments on ITM, I don't care how many tunes you've learnt and how many sessions you've played in for these five years. When I'd been playing for five years I was perhaps 8 or 9 years old, it was only when I was in my 20's that I felt I'd even come close to understanding what this music is all about.
So good luck to you in your hobby but if you treat it as nothing more than a mere hobby and have only five years playing experience then may I suggest you refrain from making so many judgemental comments on this site!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I don't mind new people(players) by any means..
It's only when they park a marching bass drum in the middle of the circle and and pull out sheet music....Then we all scratch our head and wonder what kind of magic is going to come from this thing....
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by lamh trom
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've been playing in sessions long enough to have met a few musicians like you, port. Ones who think they're so above everyone else that they have nothing to learn from lesser musicians or ones who have not been playing as long.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
chill wind blowing in from the west tonight. Brr!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Bren
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
again Dow you haven't read my posts clearly enough. I never said 'lesser' musicians can't teach me anything. I often learn new tunes and hear about new players/recordings from any decent musician and I would never describe any person as 'lesser' than me in any way. I just don't think someone with so little experience in ITM as you has any justification for making so many judgemental comments on this site.
You'll probably reply that I shouldn't be making any myself either, but given my experience and knowledge of this music I've much more legitimacy in doing so than you do. In fact this whole experience with you has left me wondering if most of the people who disagree with me here have as little experience in ITM as you. I'm not saying I know it all by any means but from what I can tell the people who are tending to agree with me are experienced/well rounded musicians who take ITM very seriously.
Overall I hope you enjoy this music and it enhances your life, I don't mean to ruin your enjoyment of it, perhaps you have been temporarily offended and hurt by what I've said about you. If so I apologise, however I think in time the more you learn about ITM the more you and others like you will learn to understand where I'm coming from particularly regarding my views on the old (correct) ways of tuning/playing and the role of backers.
You see this whole thing is why I posted this discussion, if you and I were in a session right now we'd likely be at each others throats. This way if we do happen to meet again somewhere down the line perhaps we'll both have learnt a bit better about how to react in a session when someone does/plays/says something we completely disagree with
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I do understand where you're coming from with the tuning/backing issues. I just don't agree with a lot of what you say. Obviously you don't value my opinion because I haven't been playing long. The fact that you don't value my opinions doesn't really worry me to be honest. It certainly doesn't "ruin my enjoyment of the music". Nor does it "temporarily offend or hurt me". In fact I think it rather sad, because you know what I said earlier in this thread about you not listening and not taking on board what others have to say? Well, you've just proven my point quite satisfyingly.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
and again perhaps the reason you don't agree with a lot of what I say is because you haven't enough experience of ITM in all its guises to FULLY understand where I'm coming from. I value everyones opinion, that's why I ask these things. I value some opinions less than others though particularly when they are opinions of people who don't know enough about a subject to really comment on it.
At this stage I've tried to be nice about it, I've even apologised if I offended you but it appears you are too stubborn to even accept that point and are immune to being offended, so with no fear of offending you I'll say Dow, you really don't know what you are talking about. Come back to me in 20 years when you might have learnt enough about ITM to be able to talk knowledgeably about it. That's the last I'll say about this. Feel free to get the last word in if you must, just remember the last word isn't always the best one.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by portnabpucai
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've had recent experiences with people logging in to this site using a new screen name and taking pot shots at me or winding me up. I've no reason to believe you're anything else but a windup merchant. Your windup threads are great, btw, well done.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Dow - walk away from it. Don't waste your time.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Kenny
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
particularly regarding my views on the old (correct) ways of tuning/playing and the role of backers. posts Portnapucai.
What old CORRECT ways of tuning/playing, and the role of backers?
Back in the 60's there were no RULES, only Johnny come latelys invented them, I do not know when. I was complaininmg about these mythical rules recently on another thread, when I said that such daft attitudes only served to put people off, and stop attending sessions. Back in the late 60s if someone had mentioned the "role of backers" you would have laughed at them, in the early 70s you could have legitimately taken stronger measures, such as a punishment beating.
If there are two guitarists playing, it makes perfect sense to play a zouk instead. And if there are 4 bodhrans, don't play every tune, unless there are about 8 other "musicians". those are not correct roles, just common sense.
And as I keep saying poor Frankie Kennedy asked me to teach him the whistle, on which I only knew one tune. Three years later he knew more about ITM than I will ever know, even after 40 odd years of playing at sessions. Not to mention a load of kids throughout the world who are all better versed in ITM than me.
Age does not necessarily bring experience. It can bring a snide attitude.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
As for tuning, make sure everyone playing at the session is tuned the same way. Again that is common sense.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Portnabpucai has had 40 years of session playing but has contributed just three recent discussions, all of them from a negative standpoint. Portnabpucai, I would politely suggest that you try adopting a more positive, persuasive approach. Tell us about the good things in your musical experience, not about the bad stuff that in your opinion is always messing things up.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by RichardB
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Maybe I was a bit harsh. I am that old and experienced that I remember telling the 15 year old Mozart to pee off and give my head peace.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Valerian tea, a legal sedative...
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
How man, Amadeus man, hadawa 'n sh*te!
Bliss is right - I've known several young musicians who have taken up a new instrument and within months become far more competent on it than people who've been playing for twenty years or more. And I'm not just talking technical competency - musical empathy is far more important.
Come on Portnabpucai - there must have been some good times in the last 40 years, or you wouldn't keep going to sessions.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Port: "When I'd been playing for five years I was perhaps 8 or 9 years old...."
So that means he started playing possibly when he was 3.
I find this very difficult to believe. In fact I don't. My wee boy Fergus is 4 and a half, and he is very bright. He can tell the time, looking at where the little hand and the big hand are, and he can read and write several short to medium sized words, something many adults can't do. But he can't play an instrument (yet.)
This thing that has come up about the music as a hobby. I think you'll find that most people on this site are so-called "Hobby musicians" but I don't think they have anything less than absolute love for the music. That's the case with me, and I wish there were more hours in the day so that I could do a day's work, do some sport, come home and do family things as well as practice and go out to sessions 6 nights a week, but unfortunately my and probably many others here's lives are not like that.
>I hate to see the music that we have developed over centuries ruined by a bunch of hobbyists and/or musical tourists who think this is simple music that any old fool can play along too.
Lucky you if you the time to dedicate rest of the non-working hours of your life to the music. Many regulars here also do not have much respect for people who think they can easily switch from classsical/rock&roll to this music. But you don't have to be from Clare to be the only type of person who has some idea about this music.
To answer the original question simply without any further character assasination attempts, upon anyone, surely you must divine the level of the session first. If there are sufficient new or learner players, then democracy should be employed. Play down to that level. If it is a high flying star studded session, most learners would be too scared to play anyway. those that do get their foot in the door with a set one week then continue to play the same set(s) week after week might easily be jokingly asked "Give us another set" or some such. There are ways of going about this. If it is the same boor who plays his quota of sets drowning everyone else out and regularly wrecking the session that way, then radical surgery has to be employed, as happened in the Blythe Hill tavern a while back - see the notes pertaining to the BHT on here - strangely enough that was the one time Dow turned up. The Kant in question got told by me where to go, and has since made only sporadic visits, but I pointedly did not play along with him till he has by now (we all hope) finally got the message.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
There are grounds for suspicion that portnabpuker is being disingenuous. (How's that for obliquity?)
KML thought I was talking bollox, but I feel my view stands up: a good solution would be for portnabpuker to get over himself.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Yes, Alex, your comments make sense now!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Hey Dow! walk away from the old crack pot! clearly port is caught up in his misguided inflated self importance. Maybe he should have a good long look at himself in the mirror and play tunes at home if he gets so worked up about "inferior musicians" at a sesuin! Port you never stop learning, get your head out of you know what and enjoy the music!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by tombo
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Oh and by the way port, what a shame you took your web name from that lovely slow air! you really dont do it justice!!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by tombo
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
portnabpucai,
It seems impossible to say to anyone who cares about the music they play that they're fighting against the spirit of the music. And as you insist that people really should care about the music they play then you seem to have set your own self-perpetuating, self-fulfilling prophecy.
All I can suggest is that if the reason you need to speak to them is because your enjoyment is of greater importance to you than that of the other person, then it sounds to me as if you're stuck between your desire to be selfish and your manners. If you actually want to use your experience in the spirit of the social bonding of the music and help the person improve; talk to them, find out about their experiences, how long they've been playing. Try to decide what you like about what they do so you can say positive things about their playing and encourage them. Even if it's only, "wow, you're sounding really good for someone who's only been playing......"
Is it possible to hear any examples of your playing, it's always nice when people who claim to have many years of experience are able to back it up through sharing your music.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Andy V
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well put Andy. Every village, town, City has a few people keepingthe music going, not just in Ireland, but all over the world now, which is great. Those people have one duty. To pass the music on, and you can't do that by having rules, especially ones like "you don't know anything unless you have been playing for 30 years". That is not going to help.
We are, as Leonard Cohen once put it, merely "passing through".
My greatest claim to contributing to ITM is that I have helped to pass the music on, even by playing a humble bodhran. I take immense pride from that. That is all any of us are doing.
The idea of someone being on a pedestal is certainly new, and unwelcome. I admit that the humble bodhran means I can join in with whoever, Molloy, Burke etc etc, and I am not going to cause offence. But my sruggles on mandolin and such enable me to appreciate great "musicians" at sessions who are willing to fulfil their role, that of encouragement in an effort to pass the music on.
That is the only "role" any of us should be interested in.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
In short, if great players have time for me, struggling on a mandolin, no idea of theory, let that be an example to all. It is a hobby for most, let's enjoy it without making it something sacred.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'm definitely at risk (and have several times) become one of those people who does the inadvertent "ruining", mostly because I don't get enough session opportunities where I live.
For those of us that aren't trying to suck, seriously, just lean over and say what we're doing wrong. I, personally want to learn, and feel wayyy more awkward when I realize that I'm making it less enjoyable for other people, and not knowing quite what I'm doing wrong (having vague ideas, maybe, but you know). Unless the person is generally haughty and bad at the same time...just politely tell them (I wouldn't think it was condescending if it came from someone that knew what they were tlaking about).
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by possumawesome
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Hey Port'
I have played with Dow in sessions and in one on one situations over the last 10 years and I do not in any way find him lacking in either his talent or ability on whatever instrument is in his hands.
Perhaps you have him confused with another?
I can't say the same for you as I have no idea who you are - but the veiled reference to knowing Dow and hearing him play and judging him as a rank amateur is a bit rich if you are not going to actually declare to him (onscreen or off) where and when you have met him
Otherwise I could also post a slanderous thread about how your fiddle playing would be good if you were in tune, and your pipes sound like you are using aluminium reeds and you have a tendency towards conservative politics...none of which may be true - but I think you should cull your attitude.
Can't say anything nice - say fckall.
PS Dow has NEVER ruined a session or party that I have attended.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Greenwiggle
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
pocahontas - or whatever your name is. You claim to have this *experience* but in my limited trad experience you are full of hot air! Put up or shut up my friend. Seriously. Dow has been playing concertina for 5 years and in my humble opinion is doing a *fantasic* job. He may say its a just a hobby - but I know better. He is passionate about tunes. And ive heard many people who have been play 40+ years who are sh*te.
"Oh look at me! Ive been playing for 20 years (or whatever) and therefore Whaterver I say is right and you are all wrong. Oh my god - how dare that Dow say anything - he has only been playing trad for 7 years! Oh my god"
bbbbrrrrrr - I'll say chilly wind Bren. So easy mr Pokie - whatever your name is to blast isults at peoples playing from behind your screen name. Mate - if it comes down to it "I'd rather swallow razor blades than to drink (play a tune) with you. I'd choose Dow over and over again, because - he's a great muso - and a great guy and a supportive musician to learners. A general all round nice guy.....not something we could say about you is it!!!!! Am i Slagging this time?....
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I've had about 30mins to calm down after my initial post. And I realise that after your few posts Pokie ......That you dont actually have a clue. In all my years on this website - Ive never seen anyone actually slag off another persons playing...very clever. If it turned out you were actually a really good musician (which I doubt) I'd still think you were probably the saddest person ever to taint this website. Good on you. But seriously - we've all been going throught the people we know from clare who play pipes and fiddle....and we've come to the conclusion that not only are you a windup merchant.....you dont actually know anything about tunes.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
If you're still reading this load of twaddle, port, take no notice. You're new here, you dip your toe in the water and you get ganged up on and your mind read. Par for the course. You didn't observe the club protocol but you weren't to know that. Truly, I feel your pain. This bunch know what I'm talking about.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Steve, even though you are fairly new (again) to the board - I'd even believe that you would not be so low as to slag another person who is on this boards playing. Its really low. And may I just say again - Dow is a fantastic tune player. And I dont just say that lightly.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
PS - will you stop going on with your glee club - its kind of getting a bit old really
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
You know Port, I liked you better when I imagined you as a youn kid.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by reenactor
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I agree that it's really low to slag off another person's playing but don't many of us slag off other members here because of their choice of instruments? The implication being that they might not be that musical if they choose a bodhran, are merely backers etc. Surely, this is unjustified too?
We also criticise the abilities or particular performances of "known" players who may well read this forum and/or post here under a pseudonym.
Of course, I use the word "we" collectively here and not with reference to any individual members although I admit to being guilty of some of the above myself in the past. Hopefully, not too often and mostly either in jest or, at least, in a constructive manner.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, There's been a lot of slagging of port on this thread from people who have only the very slenderest idea of what makes him tick (we may never find out now, and a true aficionado of ITM may be lost to us because of all the contumely) and shame on all of you who have joined in. It's oh so easy when you're writing to an internet list innit. And I warned you that if anyone mentioned Glee Club again I'd resume my role as commandant.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
The thing is - why would anyone bother spending their time on this site if they didnt love the tunes. And the worst thing you could ever do is slag someone about their tune playing. Its really out of line. And to be honest...why do it? Is Dow at your session Pokie?? Is he there annoying you every week? If he was then take him aside and tell him. But he isnt. You just thought you'd openly slag him on a huge website because it makes you feel better. I really just dont get it. Dow has never made an album, he's never joined a group and he has never played on stage -all of which puts him out there to be slagged. But he has never done that - maybe because he feels he isnt up to standard? Who knows - I think he is. So what is in it for you? Seriously -does it make you feel better? Youve just lost a big chunk of potential friends around the world.....are you happy? If so - good on you. Guess its cheaper than drugs or even a pint.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Steve, youre right - people do that all the time, I never have, because I like a good bodhran, backer, fiddle player, uillean pipe player etc. But - as you just agreed with - we dont slag another member of the site...its just plain low. And you know, if it was even vaguely true...its still not cool. But Dow is really a talented person - Truely really bloody good. I dont want to give him a big head - but it needs to be said.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Of course, I believe that Portnabpucai is entitled to his opinion even although I don't necessarily agree with how he presents it here.
However, I'm inclined to agree with Dow and a few others that he might not entirely be a "newbie" here. His attitude comes over as over confident to say the least, if not arrogant.
His arrival here seems to mirror that of the people he complains about who enter real life sessions.
Perhaps, a new topic could be
"How do you politely stop someone ruining The Session.org Board?"
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
bb, that was me not Steve. Sorry!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Unless I've missed it - and I've just re-read this entire thread to try and make sure I *didn't* miss anything - portnabpucai actually didn't criticise Dow's tune playing.
Have I missed it? Could someone quote where he said it? 'Cos I can't see it for the life of me.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
In fact, now I think of it, the only thing portnabpucai said about Dow's playing was how good it was.
bb - are you just looking at things upside down ... coming from where you do 'n' all?
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
... unless you meant the very mild comments on the zouk playing?
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Oh, come on Steve, you and Pukey aren't thonly ones to suffer the wrath of indignation from org.ers. I got into trouble not long after I started on here:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1127/comments#comment17649
It is possible to rehabilitate yourself here and I for one believe in redemption, as both you and I may well have done.
But I have to agree with bb here, giving out about someone's playing is almost a taboo on here - and so it should be.
Pukey, if you're such an accomplished musician why do you feel the need to knock someone else? That is a fall from grace. And if you *are* such an accomplished musician you might want to consider that you can afford to leave the pipes fiddle and guitar down for a while and brush up on your online tact and diplomacy.
As for Dow, he is no online angel either. He is a really nice guy in real life but can be a pain at times here. but at least he speaks his mind and maybe a some people don't like to hear that. And be careful who you're slagging cos people might just rally round the underdog:
"He may be a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our son-of-a-bitch."
Cordell Hull, US Secretary of State from 1933-1944.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
aren't thonly ones = aren't the only ones
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Benhall:
"....and I think you're a fine concertina player, not too pushed about your bouzouki playing but I didn't say it at the time...."
"....your bouzouki playing aside from the fact that I wasn't keen on the style you used and also the fact that you would sporadically use it when there was already other backers playing along in completely different styles to you...."
not exactly ripping Dow's playing to shreds, but I certainly wouldn't address another player like that on here.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
I'm not bothered about the comments about my playing. That's fair enough. I'm happy to take criticism from anyone as long as it's not behind my back. This is about as public as you can get, so fair play. Bring it on. In the past, criticism has always spurred me on to become a better player. I've always made a point of turning negative comments into a positive thing for myself, and I'm pretty sure I'm on record here encouraging others to do the same.
No it's not that that wound me up, it was the idea that I shouldn't even be on this discussion board being "judgemental" given that I've not been playing long. Well, I admit to having made judgements on the playing of famous musicians during my time here on the session. But whenever I've done so I've always said why I don't like their playing and I've been very specific about stuff like which track on a CD bothers me and tried to pinpoint what it is that grates, for the sake of interesting discussion on musical interpretation. I haven't just said "so-and-so is crap". I would never say that someone's a crap musician. We all know that once you get to a certain level and you have your technique sorted out, it all boils down to personal taste. So to be honest I don't see what the fuss is about.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"I admit to having made judgements on the playing of famous musicians during my time here on the session."
Maybe port is right and it's not for me to say anything. I dunno. That's kind of like a philosophical issue isn't it? Should people who review movies all, at some point, have been the best actor/director/producer/cameraman of their time? That's a pretty tough call - you'd have to have one hell of a CV.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Dow
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
It doesn't matter if Dow can play or not, and it would seem that he can. It is this overbearing "you know nothing unless you have been playing for 30 years" attitude that is at fault here. Substitute a real newcomer for Dow, and imagine the impact.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Be polite at all times.
In the best concrete-boots tradition say something like "Sorry about this, sir, but nothing personal, you understand?", and then do whatever is necessary.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Fair enough on the zouk comment suppose, Danny, and I agree, I probably wouldn't comment on another .orger's playing like that (unles, like Alex, they had asked people to comment). It's just I thought it was pretty mild, and the bit I had picked up was port's obvious admiration for Dow's concertina playing. So, I thought some of the comments back were a bit over the top ... not putting it stronger than that ...
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
This thread was going swimmingly and even amusingly until Dow's upping of the ante with his "I have a good answer for this..." thingie. I honestly don't think that was necessary and, OK, the guy may have misjudged things a bit with his ripostes but that's what you get here innit when the hawks start a-circling. Oh yes, we can do that here. He did not deserve all this and I hope he continues to have the dignity (lacking in this thread in general) to say nowt else for a while. A quick read back over the thread will reveal that he's been slagged off (ugh) far more vituperously than anything he said himself about anyone else. Who do you think y'all are, Seamus bloody Tansey?
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
"May I kindly suggest that if you've only been playing for five years then you have a LONG way to go before you have the knowledge to make sound comments on ITM, I don't care how many tunes you've learnt and how many sessions you've played in for these five years. When I'd been playing for five years I was perhaps 8 or 9 years old, it was only when I was in my 20's that I felt I'd even come close to understanding what this music is all about."
Benhall -Are serious that he wasnt being offensive ? you have only my word on this.....Dow is really good. And I ever say is "PUT UP OR SHUT UP".,,,,,
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
God -you know.....steve, you can be bloody mean when you want to be steve,,,,at least y\ou pokie can be best friends.....he prob hates harmonica tho!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
OHHHHH HHHAAAA - are you serious BBlis - you slag Dow for exactly the stuff you do!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Playing the age card as his ace card. Clutching at straws, I say.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
OOOOOHHH christ - sorry bodhran b - totally read your post wrong.... knowing your a great person and all,,,,,,sorry!!!!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Oh, no -but seriously by Pokies masterfiul take on the music.....I must be amazing,,,,I am always out of tune.............thank god!!! I Knew there was a reason. Actually all this time.... I was right - and you all were wrong...ccccoooollllll!!!!!!!!!
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Thank you bb, I am the one who leapt to defend Dow, because of the mass generalisation of port's statement, not because I like Dow, who obviously is a sworn enemy, although a better concertina and zouk player than me.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a thread???
Someone take the bottle away from bb, she's sluring her writing...
I can't understand the necessity to build up ones own pedestal, teetering as it is likely to be if made up of fantasies and generalizations about age and experience ~ on what pretense or proof? Some of the wisest, considerate and least pretentious folks I've known have been young, while many of the worst a**holes have been old farts... On the whole, the gems I've known, characters rich in the tradition, never put on airs and never felt it necessary to talk themselves up or someone else down. They were great listeners and had patience for and interest in others, whatever level of skill or experience they had, or whether or not they were another musician or dancer. They were interested and respected others, whatever their age or background. They didn't tend to make comparisons and judgements between themselves and anyone else, why bother? In their company you were made to feel welcome and equal, not inferior and unworthy... Yeah, there is always the exception, I've known a few. In those few cases, however good the musician may have been or thought they were, or however steeped in tradition they were in reality or in fantasy, rather than kneel before them as they might have expected ~ I'd move on. There were always better people for me to spend time with and learn from. The majority of those folks I've been blessed with being able to share time, life, music and dance with never were moved to belittle me, to make me feel inadequate, however poor my skills, understanding or experience may have been in reality. Why do that anyway, to increase your own worth by lessening that of others?
Having had the pleasure of Dow / Mark's company, and he passing my wife's BS and a**hole filter (which is the best I've ever known), he has only proved to be considerate, patient, caring and open... He has become a friend to us both, first in the virtual sense, via this site. He is ever seeking to further his understanding of the music, and not for his own edification, but so he can do it justice and better promote and share it, better play it... He isn't full of himself and definitely does not think he knows it all Yeah, he winds me up sometimes, but I take that as being in my vein of tease, I only tease people I like and appreciate... I admit, he has his moods, and sometimes he winds up the wrong people the wrong way.
He has a passion for this music, and as passionately he would defend anyone's right to appreciation and involvement in it ~ with consideration for the wider context of what this tradition is about, with respect and consideration for others, the social craic... There are some topics that will fire that passion, as has obviously happened here...
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Mr. Port ghost-music thing is starting to look like a sock-puppet.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by TaoCat
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
portnabpucai: "It can be a pleasure to tell someone who is an obviously rude and ignorant person to get the **** out of a session, or do as one person I know did to a particularly ignorant guitarist, cut their strings off when they go to the toilet!"
c: I've been pressed to that extreme and I've never found it pleasurable... I would never ever do disrespect to another's instrument...
portnabpucai: "But what do you do about someone who is either quiet/shy or genuinely friendly or local to the area? The general thing tends to be to say nothing and just live with it, but this can lead to the ruination of either a brilliant one off session or more importantly a regular session because such people will come back week after week presuming they are doing nothing wrong. They never learn if no one tells them they are doing something wrong.
Some of you may suggest politely telling the person that they should learn more before joining in, but this can come across as condescending
So what do you all do about this kind of situation without coming across as rude and//or condescending?"
c: If it is truly a social occassion, and you all know each other, you talk, you incorporate 'education' in the function of this thing you have a passion for. You don't sit on it and let it fester... If you show respect and consideration for another it should mean you have an opening to help them to better understand what this thing is all about, the greater context. What better gift can you give than your own experience ~ the tradition as it has been handed down for ages ~ not as a judgement, but as a sharing of understanding. What greater gift than to raise their understanding, improve their playing and respect for this thing we are supposed to care about... "THING"? ~ It isn't a thing, it is PEOPLE!!! The problem is when what is most important is the twiddles, fancy bits and acrobatics, or the accumulation of tunes, the quantity... I know that is the case for some, but for me it is first about people... Respecting that makes the transfer of tradition more probable, not egocentric but social...my preference...
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Christ (can I say that) what a cliquey lot some of you are. Please don't come to my Session. We've had it ruined by long in the tooth talented old bigots in the past. Also by the odd hogger - knows a 25 minute set of reels and won't stop. With these folk we engage them in conversation, usually to impress them with our superior intellect, sometimes to ask what the name of the eigth tune in the set was and do they normally play the F as a sharp in bar 5? We then buy a round and include them. By that stage thay are putty in our hands.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by bigfish
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
bb You previously said that portnabpucai had "slagged off Dow's playing." I just pointed out that he hadn't, with the exception of a very mild reference to Dow's zouk playing not being to his taste. And even *that* was only after having said how good his concertina playing was. The passage you quoted above didn't slag off Dow's playing. It was an expression of something much expressed in trad circles - the idea of 'paying one's dues'.
I never said he wasn't being offensive, but then you didn't accuse him of that previously. Let's leave the goalposts where they were, shall we?
And - and here's where I feel I'm either being brave, or foolish to stick my neck out, but I think it needs to be said - I have found various others' comments on this thread (let alone other threads) to be much more offensive that portnabpucai's. And that's even though I accept Danny's point that I personally probably wouldn't have mentioned that Dow's zouk playing wasn't to my taste.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
As a quiet/shy mainly lurker on this site, it distresses me to see all this posturing and pontificating going on here at the moment. I feel that almost everyone has lost the plot. We are ALL passionate about Irish traditional music, or we would not be here, and even if you are quiet and shy (as I am, stated again just so you know), it doesn't make you any less passionate. Nor does it matter where you are at in the heirarchy of the music (and don't be tricked into thinking that there isn't one, and a jealously guarded one at that), at the humble beginnings, perpetual learnership, or at the perceived or actual top (whereever that may be).
Whether it is intentional or not, a lot of posturing and positioning goes on on this site. Hey, it is great site and it is global, it even comes to me in my loungeroom in Central Australia (as if you didn't already know). I love to keep my passion for the music burning through this site, it is how I keep in contact, however pitifully, and deep down I really love youse all. No kidding.
There is, however, a great tendency for EVERYONE who contributes and lurks here to actual or feinted hurt and to the accidental or intentional misinterpretation or what have you in the struggle of contributors fer survival or standing in the community, even here, on what is logically just a yellaboard where people supposedly can come to share a love of the tunes no matter what their level of competence or commitment.
It distresses me greatly to see newbies to this site jumped upon and put in line, as it similarly distresses me to see old regulars dissed on by those who have, or have not (who am I to judge from my insular castle in Central Oz) got some kindda bone to pick. It is ALL so unnecessary. It doesn't make for pleasurable lurking - just to take an egocentrical view of the carryons from my insular perspective. Actually, it detracts from this site and everything that (in my humble opinion) it means to me!
Now, as I have said before, just so you know, I am of the quiet/shy type, who once, out of a burning passion for the music, ruined a real life session and sent it packing underground so fast, simply because I wanted to be in it, and turned up at it. I used to ride my bike nearly 50km round trip in order just to be there. I wanted to live and breathe the music, yet some people made judgement, even in far flung Oz, that I didn't have the right or couldn't make the grade (but who are they to lay judgement on me?) I did not then, and still do not, want to be a perpetual beginner. What I have got in the real world and also, alas from this site, is a lot of unhelpful twaddle. Don't do this. Go away. You are excluding yourself. Only do such and such if you are an expert. Very very negative, dare I say it. Very very negative indeed. Where is the positive gals and guys?
My thanks to those who have been positive, friendly and genuinely helpful over the years - thank heavens for you is all I can say. I am, of course, not referring to you.
I even tried twice to be removed from this yellaboard, but both times I didn't even get the courtesy of a reply. It seems that the sentence to this site is a life one, unless Jeremy wishes it otherwise. So as a quiet/shy person who is regularly jumped on any time I raise my head out of lurkdom here, quietly, and as an aside to you over a pint at the bar, you are ruining the only session I have with your own petty carry ons.
So guys and gals, what I am trying to say is cool down, don't spoil thesession.org with your cliquey bikering, and don't ruin the only ITM session that I have got. You are all bigfish in my eyes and I love youse dearly
(again, in case you missed it the first time).
Cheers
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Flippin' Nora, bb. Now listen here. I know that you yourself are a superlative player of ITM. I am in awe. You say that Dow is one of the best. I believe you. Why wouldn't I? If I could play like you I'd want people to trust my judgement and I trust yours. One day I'd love to show the bugger that a harmonica need pay no deference to a concertina. What I do know about the feller is that he's more than capable of dishing it out AND speaking up for himself, sarky bugger though he may be. Teks one to know one, eh, Dow mate! So bb, would you please desist from lashing out every time someone has a little pop at him. He sets himself up a bit at times but he lives and breathes and squeezes another day. It's the tunes what counts. It's an internet list, not gladiators in the Colosseum. And you refer to port being my best friend or whatever you said. I should like to politely inform you that I don't even know whether portnapucai is a boy or a girl.
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Sorry Steve, youre right. I shouldnt have lashed out at you... I think Pochahontis is a girl. Just the impression I'm getting
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Well, you can't spell his/her moniker. I can't tell you how long it took me to sort out the spelling of Colosseum.
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Anyway, Dow has all those spiffin' Northumbrian chunes, many of which I play meself. Lovely stuff. I'm aiming to be the next Will Atkinson. Well, he lived till he was 93 and he was playing his mouth-organ to the last so I have a few years to get to his level. Don't tell my wife I'm planning to live beyond 93. I hate to think how she'll react when she finds out all the policies are useless.
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining anything if that's their intention?
I know I'm being repetitive, but, 'it' has always been and will remain with me ~ all about people, that is the first 'count', it's the people that count first. So, small fish agreeing with bigfish, maybe we need to crack a nice bottle of brew and share out the burn, and for the pioneers amongst us a good cuppa, tea in the Irish fashion, or weaker if needs be... Sometimes that pause is all it takes to bring us around to some semblance of sanity?
Nice goal Steve, Will Atkinson is a favourite, lovely stuff... Good luck with it... 'Clear Drops', there will always be a place and a welcome for you somewhere... Be patient where others lack it, there's no way any of us can know the full history and motivations behind another... We all have our limits and our madness...
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by ceolachan
NOTE: ~ despite any other faults, I've never belonged to a clique or cult, and no one could ever accuse me of being 'exclusive', an integral part of the definition of 'clique'... If anything, I often end up being devil's advocate, something I need to be warry of, as I will usually take sides with the minority, whether that is measured in numbers or ego-quotient...
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Maybe that's for others to decide.
# Posted on April 29th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
i, too, think that the individual in question female.
# Posted on April 30th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
sorry, IS female.
# Posted on April 30th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: How do you politely stop someone ruining a session?
Getting back to the topic, every session usually has a singer or two. Have them learn "the Spoons Murder" by Con Fada O'Driscol.
It tells the tale of an unwelcome spoons player who imposes himself on a session and ruins the session with his "ugly mechanical noise". It then goes humourously on at some length to describe a lethal assault on the spoons player with a bicycle.
Its quite funny and if the cap fits the imposing player might take the hint.
# Posted on April 30th 2007 by southpaw