"The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
"The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I inherited a banjo from an old Friend about 10 yr ago
and am only now trying to learn to play
I wanted to learn Irish mode and really didn't know
anything, really anything, about the instrument
My instructor has asked me to change strings so that I
can get the GDAE tuning, but when I took it to the
local string shop in Columbus, Ohio, we discovered
that the tail piece won't accommodate the last string,
040W. The fella there said I could let him file the
groove to accommodate, but I have some concerns about
altering the instrument.
Have never explored the instrument's history and
decided I'd better do that before I proceed.(The
instrument has sentimental value, although I've been
told it has "worldly value" as well.)
It is /has:
-
-the name "The Gibson" in script pearl inlay at the
top with a pearl inlay fleur-de-lis below the 4
"tuners"
-15 frets
-pearl inlay dot at the 5th,7th, and 10th spaces; 2
dots at 12th
-11 " diameter head that is hollow with 30
brackets/lugs
-looks like ivory "stripe" surrounding the top edge of
the bridge, the lower edge of the rim and the inner
edge of the rim of the head; ivory/nickle tuners that
look like they have kind of a "worm screw/geared"
appearance(i know not of what I speak, but think this
describes it...
-Oval gold sticker on the inside wall of the head
structure "this Gibson banjo guaranteed"
-the number 523 on the wooden diameter "stick"
-tailpiece is nickle and about 3/4" wide with 4 slots
thanks for reviewing if you've gotten this far
I'm concerned about altering this tailpiece by filing
it to accommodate the 040w string that is recommended. Would this damage the integrity of the tailpiece? the worldly value of the instrument? (should I care about this?)
any suggestions? different guage string for same
effect? different tailpiece? dangers in using different-than-intended strings with this shorter bridge?
I've read some other discussions at this site here re differences in guages but didn't know enough to ask the fella I took it to about alternative strings...and also discovered that he had never strung a banjo before, so may look for someone else.....
I am at the "Mary had a little lamb" stage of playing, and want to learn things right from the start
thanks
Susan Goellner
"The error of communication is assuming it has occurred." GB Shaw
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
The answer's simple: get another tailpiece that suits the instrument (a Kerschner or a clamshell?) as installing it won't affect the instrument in any way. Put the old one away and keep it so it can be put back on later. Sounds like a nice banjo - why not put some pictures on a picture-sharing site so we can admire it. I decided to go for slightly lighter strings on my old Bacon banjo as the neck hasn't got a truss-rod in it. If I were you I'd do the same.
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Just checked and the ones I put on mine are the D'Addario Irish banjo set -J631 - they're 12, 16, 24, 36 gauge - perhaps they might fit better. You might need the grooves in the nut widened slightly. I've got a Kirschner type tailpiece and the heavier strings don't fit through the groove but you just feed the string through the hole instead (bend the end of the string so it doesn't damage the head when poking it through). I'm sure everyone will admire the Gibson - sounds like an absolute gem!
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I play an old Gibson, and use the Tom Cusson gauge strings, using a .036W for G. (.0115, .017, .026, .036 ) seems to work fine. There should however be no problem about widening the slot for a .040W, as replacements are easy enough to get. But maybe for the sake of authenticity, go with RichardB's suggestion. Try http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Banjo_tailpieces.html for a new one, you should find a near match.
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I have a suspicion that a "certain someone" is trying to set this item up as a 5 ( G ) string. If not why the need for an extra string " catch " on the T. P. Fitting the 010, 012, 013, is what is said to give so many so much di satisfaction with their t. banjo's sound. It appears that a good few people do not want to face the fact that Irish tuning is not the " standard " & so the string gauges can't be the same. Either Tom C. in Galway or G.M.W / Boorinwood can set you up for a small " donation "
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
What's the scale length, ie from the nut to the 12th fret times 2 ? Is it for 4 strings or 8 ?
And, yes, please, give us some pictures, this does sound like an interesting instrument, and I for one would like to know more. If that's a serial number inside you might have quite an early one.
Has your instructor said anything about it ?
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Thanks everyone for your responses. This will give me enough material to ask some better questions when I take it to check out restinging.
As with the banjo, I am equally inexperienced in posting photos, but will get the help of my computer geek offspring and try to put some pix in a future reply this week.
Using GP's formua for measuring, the "scale length" is 21" and it is a 4 string. Compared to many banjos that I've seen on various sites, this little banjo/banjolin is pretty plain-jane in appearance, but will do my best to "show and tell."
I am wondering now if what I thought was "ivory" around the rim, could be that material they used for making women's brush and mirror dresser sets in the 1920's???
My next lesson is thursday...will bring all your thoughts to my instructor and see what he says
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
To clarify, the "standard" tenor banjo is 19 frets and a ~23" scale, there are shorter ones made for people who aren't comfortable with the longer reach needed to play irish music on the 19-fret version. It sounds like you have one of those shorter ones.
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Just a thought - does the tailpiece have pins that stick out and have slots in them? The slots may well be too narrow to take the strings if you're fitting ball-ended ones, but they should be fine with loop-ended strings (I think the slots were for tying gut strings). I had a search for anything about 15 fret Gibson tenor banjos and couldn't find anything. Sounds like it could be a piccolo banjo or a banjeaurine (tuned a 4th higher than a standard banjo). Does it look a bit like this (though this isn't a Gibson?) http://www.bernunzio.com/item.php?sku=059455
If it's really rare you might have something quite valuable.
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Gee, this just sounds like a short-scale tenor banjo to me. There were variations in neck length, probably as special orders. Also, sometimes necks have been removed and shortened a bit., either as a part of doing a repair or for other reasons. The scale length is independent of the number of frets. One could shorten the neck and set the bridge in a new location (farther back), preserving the scale length (required by the spacing between frets) despite the shorter neck -- kind of like mandolins with more or fewer frets clear of the body but the same scale length. The shorter scale length (and 17-fret configuration) is actually is the older tenor banjo style. tTe longer length was an adaptation that came along later when the instrument became used more fro playing chord progressions in an orchestral context, if I'm not mistaken. But then, everyone may laaeady know that and withak may just have been having a bit of fun.
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I'm having it restrung with a local instrument maker, who assures me that while interesting that this is nothing extraordinary....that there was somewhat of an experimental period in banjo making as the world transitioned into guitars...mabe not exactly the way he put it , but my interpretation ....I will be putting pix up as soon as my son the guru tells me how.
I love this instrument becasue of whose hands held it...and in whose hands music was made....why it's taken me so long to pursue it is a combination of .....inertia...and that inner voice that says i might make a fool of moi...too old now to let that sway intent....
I apprecaite all the repsonses...Typos...no problema
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
<<The shorter scale length (and 17-fret configuration) is actually is the older tenor banjo style. tTe longer length was an adaptation that came along later when the instrument became used more fro playing chord progressions in an orchestral context, if I'm not mistaken. But then, everyone may laaeady know that and withak may just have been having a bit of fun.>>
I didn't know that. I always thought it was the other way around, that the 17-fret was shortened from the 19-fret to make it easier to play melody like a mandolin.
this is the site my computer guru son put together with the banjo pix. As I said, it's somewhat "plain jane" compared to others I see out there on the web. I think I wrote earlier that the drum was 11"; It is 12" which is why maybe it looks somewhat disproportionate?
I was able to get this restrung and am now happily making one mistake after another
"The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
"The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I inherited a banjo from an old Friend about 10 yr ago
and am only now trying to learn to play
I wanted to learn Irish mode and really didn't know
anything, really anything, about the instrument
My instructor has asked me to change strings so that I
can get the GDAE tuning, but when I took it to the
local string shop in Columbus, Ohio, we discovered
that the tail piece won't accommodate the last string,
040W. The fella there said I could let him file the
groove to accommodate, but I have some concerns about
altering the instrument.
Have never explored the instrument's history and
decided I'd better do that before I proceed.(The
instrument has sentimental value, although I've been
told it has "worldly value" as well.)
It is /has:
-
-the name "The Gibson" in script pearl inlay at the
top with a pearl inlay fleur-de-lis below the 4
"tuners"
-15 frets
-pearl inlay dot at the 5th,7th, and 10th spaces; 2
dots at 12th
-11 " diameter head that is hollow with 30
brackets/lugs
-looks like ivory "stripe" surrounding the top edge of
the bridge, the lower edge of the rim and the inner
edge of the rim of the head; ivory/nickle tuners that
look like they have kind of a "worm screw/geared"
appearance(i know not of what I speak, but think this
describes it...
-Oval gold sticker on the inside wall of the head
structure "this Gibson banjo guaranteed"
-the number 523 on the wooden diameter "stick"
-tailpiece is nickle and about 3/4" wide with 4 slots
thanks for reviewing if you've gotten this far
I'm concerned about altering this tailpiece by filing
it to accommodate the 040w string that is recommended. Would this damage the integrity of the tailpiece? the worldly value of the instrument? (should I care about this?)
any suggestions? different guage string for same
effect? different tailpiece? dangers in using different-than-intended strings with this shorter bridge?
I've read some other discussions at this site here re differences in guages but didn't know enough to ask the fella I took it to about alternative strings...and also discovered that he had never strung a banjo before, so may look for someone else.....
I am at the "Mary had a little lamb" stage of playing, and want to learn things right from the start
thanks
Susan Goellner
"The error of communication is assuming it has occurred." GB Shaw
__________________________________________________
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by mitwif
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
The answer's simple: get another tailpiece that suits the instrument (a Kerschner or a clamshell?) as installing it won't affect the instrument in any way. Put the old one away and keep it so it can be put back on later. Sounds like a nice banjo - why not put some pictures on a picture-sharing site so we can admire it. I decided to go for slightly lighter strings on my old Bacon banjo as the neck hasn't got a truss-rod in it. If I were you I'd do the same.
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by RichardB
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Just checked and the ones I put on mine are the D'Addario Irish banjo set -J631 - they're 12, 16, 24, 36 gauge - perhaps they might fit better. You might need the grooves in the nut widened slightly. I've got a Kirschner type tailpiece and the heavier strings don't fit through the groove but you just feed the string through the hole instead (bend the end of the string so it doesn't damage the head when poking it through). I'm sure everyone will admire the Gibson - sounds like an absolute gem!
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by RichardB
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I play an old Gibson, and use the Tom Cusson gauge strings, using a .036W for G. (.0115, .017, .026, .036 ) seems to work fine. There should however be no problem about widening the slot for a .040W, as replacements are easy enough to get. But maybe for the sake of authenticity, go with RichardB's suggestion. Try http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Banjo_tailpieces.html for a new one, you should find a near match.
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by Backer
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Hi Sue
You've described a banjolin, not a banjo. Its standard tuning is like the mandolin, gdae.
http://www.banjolin.co.uk/banjolin/banjolinpage.htm
http://www.banjolin.co.uk/banjolin/tuning.htm
Mandolin strings may work on it. Try using a lighter gauge.
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by joesmith
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I have a suspicion that a "certain someone" is trying to set this item up as a 5 ( G ) string. If not why the need for an extra string " catch " on the T. P. Fitting the 010, 012, 013, is what is said to give so many so much di satisfaction with their t. banjo's sound. It appears that a good few people do not want to face the fact that Irish tuning is not the " standard " & so the string gauges can't be the same. Either Tom C. in Galway or G.M.W / Boorinwood can set you up for a small " donation "
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by lenamore Man
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
What's the scale length, ie from the nut to the 12th fret times 2 ? Is it for 4 strings or 8 ?
And, yes, please, give us some pictures, this does sound like an interesting instrument, and I for one would like to know more. If that's a serial number inside you might have quite an early one.
Has your instructor said anything about it ?
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Thanks everyone for your responses. This will give me enough material to ask some better questions when I take it to check out restinging.
As with the banjo, I am equally inexperienced in posting photos, but will get the help of my computer geek offspring and try to put some pix in a future reply this week.
Using GP's formua for measuring, the "scale length" is 21" and it is a 4 string. Compared to many banjos that I've seen on various sites, this little banjo/banjolin is pretty plain-jane in appearance, but will do my best to "show and tell."
I am wondering now if what I thought was "ivory" around the rim, could be that material they used for making women's brush and mirror dresser sets in the 1920's???
My next lesson is thursday...will bring all your thoughts to my instructor and see what he says
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by mitwif
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Are you sure it doesn't have 17 frets? A 21" scale length is about right for a short-scale tenor.
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by withak
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
To clarify, the "standard" tenor banjo is 19 frets and a ~23" scale, there are shorter ones made for people who aren't comfortable with the longer reach needed to play irish music on the 19-fret version. It sounds like you have one of those shorter ones.
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by withak
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
To triple-post, I would think that the tailpiece on one of those should easily be able to handle a 40w string. Maybe it's not the original tailpiece?
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by withak
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
yup...15 frets(the wire inlays on the fingerboard)...i just recounted them from the nut to the rim of the drum
i did take some pix and will figure out how to post them this week
and yes, i wondered if the tailpiece could be something other than the original...it doesn't look anything like the ones i've seen on the net
if the case has anything to do with a banjo, the banjo fits perfectly in it, making me think that at least the main parts are original
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by mitwif
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Just a thought - does the tailpiece have pins that stick out and have slots in them? The slots may well be too narrow to take the strings if you're fitting ball-ended ones, but they should be fine with loop-ended strings (I think the slots were for tying gut strings). I had a search for anything about 15 fret Gibson tenor banjos and couldn't find anything. Sounds like it could be a piccolo banjo or a banjeaurine (tuned a 4th higher than a standard banjo). Does it look a bit like this (though this isn't a Gibson?) http://www.bernunzio.com/item.php?sku=059455
If it's really rare you might have something quite valuable.
# Posted on April 24th 2007 by RichardB
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Gee, this just sounds like a short-scale tenor banjo to me. There were variations in neck length, probably as special orders. Also, sometimes necks have been removed and shortened a bit., either as a part of doing a repair or for other reasons. The scale length is independent of the number of frets. One could shorten the neck and set the bridge in a new location (farther back), preserving the scale length (required by the spacing between frets) despite the shorter neck -- kind of like mandolins with more or fewer frets clear of the body but the same scale length. The shorter scale length (and 17-fret configuration) is actually is the older tenor banjo style. tTe longer length was an adaptation that came along later when the instrument became used more fro playing chord progressions in an orchestral context, if I'm not mistaken. But then, everyone may laaeady know that and withak may just have been having a bit of fun.
# Posted on April 25th 2007 by devellis
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
Apologies for typos in preceding post.
# Posted on April 25th 2007 by devellis
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
I'm having it restrung with a local instrument maker, who assures me that while interesting that this is nothing extraordinary....that there was somewhat of an experimental period in banjo making as the world transitioned into guitars...mabe not exactly the way he put it , but my interpretation ....I will be putting pix up as soon as my son the guru tells me how.
I love this instrument becasue of whose hands held it...and in whose hands music was made....why it's taken me so long to pursue it is a combination of .....inertia...and that inner voice that says i might make a fool of moi...too old now to let that sway intent....
I apprecaite all the repsonses...Typos...no problema
# Posted on April 26th 2007 by mitwif
Re: "The Gibson" ...can it be made "Irish"? (restringing)
<<The shorter scale length (and 17-fret configuration) is actually is the older tenor banjo style. tTe longer length was an adaptation that came along later when the instrument became used more fro playing chord progressions in an orchestral context, if I'm not mistaken. But then, everyone may laaeady know that and withak may just have been having a bit of fun.>>
I didn't know that.
I always thought it was the other way around, that the 17-fret was shortened from the 19-fret to make it easier to play melody like a mandolin.
# Posted on April 26th 2007 by withak
Pictures of "the gibson" thread from"can it be made Irish?"
http://www.chen-becker.org/banjo/
this is the site my computer guru son put together with the banjo pix. As I said, it's somewhat "plain jane" compared to others I see out there on the web. I think I wrote earlier that the drum was 11"; It is 12" which is why maybe it looks somewhat disproportionate?
I was able to get this restrung and am now happily making one mistake after another
thanks for all past comments
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by mitwif