I just picked up an old fiddle (german; ~100-150 years old). It has some oddities which I won't trouble you all with, but through it all, it has an absolutely amazing voice! Unfortunately, I think someone tried to turn it into an ornament at some point and shellacked (shellack, may be a tad strong) but heavily varnished over the entire thing (fingerboard included)- must have done it on a windy day too, looking at the amount of dust trapped in the finish. They either regretted it or someone else came along and tried to see how easily the gunk would come off, removed (not so cleanly) the varnish over the right half of the table, and took a swipe (only one swipe) of varnish off the one piece back.
I’m wondering if anyone has actually shelled out for a total refinish and whether or not you were happy with it. I’m also wondering if I leave it as is, ~2/3 finished, am I exposing it to more danger than just humiliation- it actually doesn’t look too bad now that the luthier has cleaned it up. It just looks what it is- well aged.
What sometimes happens with old fiddles is a build-up of rosin on the belly. When my old fiddle (200-years old) came down to me through the family some years ago the region between the fingerboard and bridge was black with oxidised rosin embedded in the varnish. The instrument needed some important things done to it anyway (like repairing a few cracks, providing a new soundpost, bridge, and pegs, and reshooting the fingerboard), so the luthier suggested he'd clean up the rosin-varnish mess while he was about it.
He had to remove the varnish down to the wood, and then re-varnish. He did it well enough so that it's very difficult to see the join of the old and new.
I play a violin that was once my wif'e's grandfather. When she was a kid, she thought it would look better and proceeded to shellack the hole thing. After talking to several people, I took on the job myself. Using steel wool and a LOT of careful rubbing, I got it off. I spent almost an entire weekend doing it. Then I cleaned it and polished it with products from Shar's Music, and it turned out really nice. It's now may main fiddle.
Would a luthier scoff at my work? Maybe, but I didn't have the money and was quoted several hundred dollars to do the job. If anyone's coming to the Tionol in St Louis this weekend, I'll show it to you.
If it were a $2-300 US fiddle, I'd say definately just touch it up yourself, with a lot of patience, and care. But, if it has a voice that you'd pay a lot more to have, I'd say shell out the money and get a reputable refinish. I bought a basket case guitar once, hoping to get around to putting it back together. After seven years, it had increased in value six fold, so I had no choice but to treat it to a professional restoration. Darn glad I never got around to it. Its still worth lots more than I have in it. And I have the satisfaction of saving an important instrument for generations to come.
Before I heard what it sounded like, I had been toying with doing the refinishing myself. I'd actually bought it as a "project". Now that I've heard it, I'm thinking I don't want to mess with it myself. It needs work in few other areas that I think have to be priority over refinishing. The fingerboard's got to go anyway- one of the oddities is that its a strange sandwich composition with ebony(?) on top of something else, and there is a two inch chip in the top layer right underneath the e string. Hairline needs addressing too.
We'd thrown on the most "minimal" of set-ups just to see if it was worth doing anything with. "Minimal" was what was laying around (bare strings, closest bridge to fit etc). What came out of it was jaw-dropping (I'd been close to making it an ornament myself, so that was a very nice surprise!). As long as its not going to lead to more trouble down the road, I think I'm willing to skip the re-finishing, or at least leave it until later. Truthfully, I think I'm just far too impatient, and want to get a decent set-up on it so I can play it now!
Two fiddles, two stories: I bought an early 20th century JTL Geronimo Barnabetti violin online for $300, which came with new, dark (possibly acrylic) finish. When stripped and re-varnished by a pro, the voice came out in spades. So did the pegbox crack, which meant: pegbox completely lined, rebushed, and feathered to graft properly onto the neck. After I added the new ebony tailpiece and pegs, and bridge, overall repair cost ca. $700.00 (a bargain). The result: violin is beautiful to behold, and, more importantly, sounds beautiful (sweet and balanced, unlike myself). In fact, when searching online, I found a Barnabetti with virtually the same shadowing in the grain of the ribs and on the back, which (I'm supposing) means the same wood lot from their workshop. Worth it.
I also have an old Amati copy that somebody sat upon before my time, which was repaired skilfully, and looks like hell, but sounds brilliant - big voice and balanced. Wouldn't change a thing.
If it's structurally sound and sounds really great, I, personally, would mostly leave it alone. Maybe have the fingerboard replaced, if it's in bad shape. You have no way of knowing how much of what you like in the voice is due to the current finish situation.
Having some long-time luthier friends, I've witnessed lots of "befores" and "afters," and sometimes it was surprising (to me, anyway) to hear what the reduction or increase of finish did to the sound.
Just wanted to thank you all (and nofrets' grandfiddle-in-law ) for your advice. Been playing it for a few days and i think I'll leave well enough alone for now. Still feeling a little guilty about leaving it in its sad condition considering the ridiculous price I paid for it but not guilty enough to not be grateful for the bundle of money saved
Diamond in the rough
Diamond in the rough
I just picked up an old fiddle (german; ~100-150 years old). It has some oddities which I won't trouble you all with, but through it all, it has an absolutely amazing voice! Unfortunately, I think someone tried to turn it into an ornament at some point and shellacked (shellack, may be a tad strong) but heavily varnished over the entire thing (fingerboard included)- must have done it on a windy day too, looking at the amount of dust trapped in the finish. They either regretted it or someone else came along and tried to see how easily the gunk would come off, removed (not so cleanly) the varnish over the right half of the table, and took a swipe (only one swipe) of varnish off the one piece back.
I’m wondering if anyone has actually shelled out for a total refinish and whether or not you were happy with it. I’m also wondering if I leave it as is, ~2/3 finished, am I exposing it to more danger than just humiliation- it actually doesn’t look too bad now that the luthier has cleaned it up. It just looks what it is- well aged.
Thanks, any advice will be very much appreciated.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Cailin Rua
Re: Diamond in the rough
What sometimes happens with old fiddles is a build-up of rosin on the belly. When my old fiddle (200-years old) came down to me through the family some years ago the region between the fingerboard and bridge was black with oxidised rosin embedded in the varnish. The instrument needed some important things done to it anyway (like repairing a few cracks, providing a new soundpost, bridge, and pegs, and reshooting the fingerboard), so the luthier suggested he'd clean up the rosin-varnish mess while he was about it.
He had to remove the varnish down to the wood, and then re-varnish. He did it well enough so that it's very difficult to see the join of the old and new.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Diamond in the rough
Don't know anything about the finish but just wanted to say congratulations on an exciting find.
Best of luck with it.
Mary
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Antikhntr
Re: Diamond in the rough
I play a violin that was once my wif'e's grandfather. When she was a kid, she thought it would look better and proceeded to shellack the hole thing. After talking to several people, I took on the job myself. Using steel wool and a LOT of careful rubbing, I got it off. I spent almost an entire weekend doing it. Then I cleaned it and polished it with products from Shar's Music, and it turned out really nice. It's now may main fiddle.
Would a luthier scoff at my work? Maybe, but I didn't have the money and was quoted several hundred dollars to do the job. If anyone's coming to the Tionol in St Louis this weekend, I'll show it to you.
Good luck!
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by nofrets
Re: Diamond in the rough
Your wife's grandfather was a violin???!?
Wow! Now THAT'S heritage for you!
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Diamond in the rough
If it were a $2-300 US fiddle, I'd say definately just touch it up yourself, with a lot of patience, and care. But, if it has a voice that you'd pay a lot more to have, I'd say shell out the money and get a reputable refinish. I bought a basket case guitar once, hoping to get around to putting it back together. After seven years, it had increased in value six fold, so I had no choice but to treat it to a professional restoration. Darn glad I never got around to it. Its still worth lots more than I have in it. And I have the satisfaction of saving an important instrument for generations to come.
Jim
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by jhol111964
Re: Diamond in the rough
If it sounds great and it plays well .... LEAVE IT ALONE !! maybe consider changing the fingerboard if that was palnted or just have it scooped a bit
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Red Robin
Re: Diamond in the rough
Before I heard what it sounded like, I had been toying with doing the refinishing myself. I'd actually bought it as a "project". Now that I've heard it, I'm thinking I don't want to mess with it myself. It needs work in few other areas that I think have to be priority over refinishing. The fingerboard's got to go anyway- one of the oddities is that its a strange sandwich composition with ebony(?) on top of something else, and there is a two inch chip in the top layer right underneath the e string. Hairline needs addressing too.
We'd thrown on the most "minimal" of set-ups just to see if it was worth doing anything with. "Minimal" was what was laying around (bare strings, closest bridge to fit etc). What came out of it was jaw-dropping (I'd been close to making it an ornament myself, so that was a very nice surprise!). As long as its not going to lead to more trouble down the road, I think I'm willing to skip the re-finishing, or at least leave it until later. Truthfully, I think I'm just far too impatient, and want to get a decent set-up on it so I can play it now!
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Cailin Rua
Re: Diamond in the rough
Two fiddles, two stories: I bought an early 20th century JTL Geronimo Barnabetti violin online for $300, which came with new, dark (possibly acrylic) finish. When stripped and re-varnished by a pro, the voice came out in spades. So did the pegbox crack, which meant: pegbox completely lined, rebushed, and feathered to graft properly onto the neck. After I added the new ebony tailpiece and pegs, and bridge, overall repair cost ca. $700.00 (a bargain). The result: violin is beautiful to behold, and, more importantly, sounds beautiful (sweet and balanced, unlike myself). In fact, when searching online, I found a Barnabetti with virtually the same shadowing in the grain of the ribs and on the back, which (I'm supposing) means the same wood lot from their workshop. Worth it.
I also have an old Amati copy that somebody sat upon before my time, which was repaired skilfully, and looks like hell, but sounds brilliant - big voice and balanced. Wouldn't change a thing.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by drone
Re: Diamond in the rough
If it's structurally sound and sounds really great, I, personally, would mostly leave it alone. Maybe have the fingerboard replaced, if it's in bad shape. You have no way of knowing how much of what you like in the voice is due to the current finish situation.
Having some long-time luthier friends, I've witnessed lots of "befores" and "afters," and sometimes it was surprising (to me, anyway) to hear what the reduction or increase of finish did to the sound.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Diamond in the rough
You got me, benhall.1!
Forgive the omission of the 's. They do tell me he was high strung.
# Posted on April 20th 2007 by nofrets
Re: Diamond in the rough
tee hee
# Posted on April 21st 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Diamond in the rough
Just wanted to thank you all (and nofrets' grandfiddle-in-law
) for your advice. Been playing it for a few days and i think I'll leave well enough alone for now. Still feeling a little guilty about leaving it in its sad condition considering the ridiculous price I paid for it but not guilty enough to not be grateful for the bundle of money saved 
# Posted on April 21st 2007 by Cailin Rua