I like Frank's reel as long as it isn't over-played. Because of the syncopated bit in the second part people tend to play it a lot -- to be different and cool. But it ends up sounding dumb and repetitive if that happens. I like to follow it with Susan Cooper's since they both have that Arkansas Traveler-ish A part. But not too often.
Well, that's another good tune that looks like it's poised to be unfashionable, just as I was getting comfy with it. I can smell it in the breeze. Maybe I should get out more, and lower my threshold of boredom. Strangely enough we were playing it with Susan Cooper and Mickie Ainsworth just the other night. The tunes , not the people.
What's the cause of this thing now where some "Irish" fiddlers start Frank's with the B part first? Instant gratification or what?
Haha just read the comments page for the tune. Interesting to see how my opinion has chnaged on it. Before I was like, A-part's ok, don't like the B-part, and now I just allow myself to dislike it. There are so many great tunes out there to spend quality time on. If you want an Amaj tune, play McFadden's Handsome Daughter, or Laurel's, or Kit O'Connor's, or one of those singles they play in Donegal like Leslie's. All better tunes than Frank's imo.
Well, for what it's worth, you could try:
|A D|A A/c#|D A/c#|Bm7 E|A D|A A/c#|D A|E A|
|A|A|D A/c#|Bm7 E|A|A|D A|E A|
and then branch out from there.
It's funny how some tunes can drive people nuts. Me? I'm either interested in a tune or disinterested. But I don't have a hate diary to record my most loathsome tunes, like some of the others on this site obviously have.
And what's "gimmicky" about syncopation? Is that like doing rolls and glissandi are "gimmicky"? Is ragtime music "gimmicky" because it uses a lot of syncopation?
And, anyway, Frank's Reel as written isn't syncopated. It's the players that make it so. I suppose the same applies to Gordon Duncan's Pressed For Time - gimmicky syncopated rubbish!
Ah, but I don't see it written 123 123 12. I see it written as 1234 1234. So the syncopation is being introduced by the player. But you don't have to play it such that you put the emphasis on the 1st, 4th and 7th eighth notes. You can play it straight, putting the emphasis on the 1st and 5th eighth notes, as written: aAAg AAfA (and not aAA gAA fA).
And, anyway, I still don't see what's gimmicky about it. Is it because it was composed by someone with an extremely dodgy haircut? Mind, I wish I had hair that I could do something dodgy with.
I'm not overly fond of the guitarist playing on the track, although I think from the way Natalie MacMaster plays the tune a particular rhythm get pushed into the guitar part.
An option for you with less chords in might be:
A Part: |:A D|A|Bm|Esus|A Bm|A/C#|Bm|Esus A:|
B Part: |A Bm A/C#|F#m|Esus|A Bm A/C#|F#m A/C#|Bm|Esus|
|A Bm A/C#|F#m|Esus|A Bm|A/C#|Bm|Esus A|
From here you could add more into it, for example expanding the A part to something more akin to:
A Part: |:A D|A A/C#|Bm D|Bm Esus|A Bm|A/C# F#m|Bm D|Esus A|
DonaldK the syncopation is there in the tune because the high notes leap out at you, and they're arranged in a syncopated way. Funny you should mention Pressed For Time because I can't stand that tune either...
"And what's "gimmicky" about syncopation? Is that like doing rolls and glissandi are "gimmicky"? Is ragtime music "gimmicky" because it uses a lot of syncopation?"
Can't even believe I'm bothering to reply to this because the answer's so obvious. Rolls aren't gimmicky because they are part of what makes Irish music Irish. Syncopation isn't part of what makes Irish tunes Irish. Ragtime music is not gimmicky for using syncopation because syncopation is part of what makes ragtime music what it is.
both tunes (frank's and pressed for time) are certainly overplayed, but that doesn't make them bad tunes.
i d give anything to write just one tune so popular, even though i d only play frank's if i had a blank and couldn't think of anything else. i d only play pressed for time if i could
oh, and they re not irish tunes, both from scottish composers.
Interesting one for me this. I absolutely *hated* Frank's until I heard a great PA player (yes, there are some) at my session play it ... and he really brought it to life. To the extent that I just *had* the tune after a time or so through. And now I can't stop playing it.
It would be one of the world's great challenges though for me to hear ANYONE playing Tam Lin and it have any effect on me other than nausea.
Oh, and Dow's got it spot on - the non-gimmicky things in ITM are the Irish things; the gimmicky things are the non-Irish ones that are put in for the sake of ... well, gimmick ... (still like Frank's now though)
And, pray, who was it took these Scottish tunes to Ireland? Might it, in fact, have been the Irish?
Syncopation may be "gimmicky" in ITM (gosh, this music police line is reminding me of "box and fiddle" regulations) but these tunes are not ITM. So presumably when played in Scotland they're not gimmicky (syncopation certainly being accepted in the modern bagpipe scene) but when played in an ITM context they are. Now I get it!
Why not try taking the syncopation out of Frank's Reel and see what happens? I'm not particularly enamoured of that tune in particular, but another of 'those syncopated A tunes' that I do like is The Easy Club http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/955 , which, in the setting posted here, has no syncopation, although the way it was played by The Easy Club themselves (including its composer, Jim Sutherland), had syncopation in both the A and B parts. The unsyncopated version may sound more 'Irish', but I still think it's a good tune even with the syncopation. There are strong tunes and weak tunes and tunes that should never have been written - and there are tunes that fit into one idiom and tunes that fit into another, and tunes that don't fit into any, and tunes that try to fit in but fail. The strongest tunes can stand up to all kinds of abuse, improvement, modification, stylisation, evolution, deterioration and still sound good.
Who was it that described Donegal music as "Scottish music with the kinks ironed out"? There as been a lot of ironing out of kinks during the transference of tunes from Scotland to Ireland in general, over many centuries. Syncopation is just one more kind of 'kink' that the tune immigaration department's laundry has to contend with. It's up to the visionary types to see past the kinks and recognise which tunes will stand up to the iron and which will crack and crumble.
What are the chords to...
What are the chords to...
Frank's Reel??
Here is a sample that has a fine rendition thanks to you know who...
http://files.calabashmusic.com/samples/33122/natalie_macmaster__gramma_maudabawn_chapelfranks_reel.sample.mp3
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by achisholm
Re: What are the chords to...
A and D
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: What are the chords to...
that tune makes me cringe
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by ecidralla
Re: What are the chords to...
... and E
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What are the chords to...
I like Frank's reel as long as it isn't over-played. Because of the syncopated bit in the second part people tend to play it a lot -- to be different and cool. But it ends up sounding dumb and repetitive if that happens. I like to follow it with Susan Cooper's since they both have that Arkansas Traveler-ish A part. But not too often.
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: What are the chords to...
Well, that's another good tune that looks like it's poised to be unfashionable, just as I was getting comfy with it. I can smell it in the breeze. Maybe I should get out more, and lower my threshold of boredom. Strangely enough we were playing it with Susan Cooper and Mickie Ainsworth just the other night. The tunes , not the people.
What's the cause of this thing now where some "Irish" fiddlers start Frank's with the B part first? Instant gratification or what?
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Bren
Re: What are the chords to...
One of those gimmicky syncopated tunes. Loathe it. That 2nd part is just horrid.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
Haha just read the comments page for the tune. Interesting to see how my opinion has chnaged on it. Before I was like, A-part's ok, don't like the B-part, and now I just allow myself to dislike it. There are so many great tunes out there to spend quality time on. If you want an Amaj tune, play McFadden's Handsome Daughter, or Laurel's, or Kit O'Connor's, or one of those singles they play in Donegal like Leslie's. All better tunes than Frank's imo.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
"Before I was like"???????
Has that travesty of the language infected even Mighty Oz, and a man of your stature?
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: What are the chords to...
Well, for what it's worth, you could try:
|A D|A A/c#|D A/c#|Bm7 E|A D|A A/c#|D A|E A|
|A|A|D A/c#|Bm7 E|A|A|D A|E A|
and then branch out from there.
It's funny how some tunes can drive people nuts. Me? I'm either interested in a tune or disinterested. But I don't have a hate diary to record my most loathsome tunes, like some of the others on this site obviously have.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by DonaldK
Re: What are the chords to...
you dont have to pick on dow's language just because he wrecked you cos you like a bad tune 'oldstrings'.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by jack.willo
Re: What are the chords to...
And what's "gimmicky" about syncopation? Is that like doing rolls and glissandi are "gimmicky"? Is ragtime music "gimmicky" because it uses a lot of syncopation?
And, anyway, Frank's Reel as written isn't syncopated. It's the players that make it so. I suppose the same applies to Gordon Duncan's Pressed For Time - gimmicky syncopated rubbish!
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by DonaldK
Re: What are the chords to...
The specific syncopation refered to with this tune is: 1234 1234 - 123 123 12
Thats the tune. It's syncopated
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: What are the chords to...
Ah, but I don't see it written 123 123 12. I see it written as 1234 1234. So the syncopation is being introduced by the player. But you don't have to play it such that you put the emphasis on the 1st, 4th and 7th eighth notes. You can play it straight, putting the emphasis on the 1st and 5th eighth notes, as written: aAAg AAfA (and not aAA gAA fA).
And, anyway, I still don't see what's gimmicky about it. Is it because it was composed by someone with an extremely dodgy haircut? Mind, I wish I had hair that I could do something dodgy with.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by DonaldK
Re: What are the chords to...
I'm not overly fond of the guitarist playing on the track, although I think from the way Natalie MacMaster plays the tune a particular rhythm get pushed into the guitar part.
An option for you with less chords in might be:
A Part: |:A D|A|Bm|Esus|A Bm|A/C#|Bm|Esus A:|
B Part: |A Bm A/C#|F#m|Esus|A Bm A/C#|F#m A/C#|Bm|Esus|
|A Bm A/C#|F#m|Esus|A Bm|A/C#|Bm|Esus A|
From here you could add more into it, for example expanding the A part to something more akin to:
A Part: |:A D|A A/C#|Bm D|Bm Esus|A Bm|A/C# F#m|Bm D|Esus A|
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Andy V
Re: What are the chords to...
DonaldK the syncopation is there in the tune because the high notes leap out at you, and they're arranged in a syncopated way. Funny you should mention Pressed For Time because I can't stand that tune either...
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
"And what's "gimmicky" about syncopation? Is that like doing rolls and glissandi are "gimmicky"? Is ragtime music "gimmicky" because it uses a lot of syncopation?"
Can't even believe I'm bothering to reply to this because the answer's so obvious. Rolls aren't gimmicky because they are part of what makes Irish music Irish. Syncopation isn't part of what makes Irish tunes Irish. Ragtime music is not gimmicky for using syncopation because syncopation is part of what makes ragtime music what it is.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
both tunes (frank's and pressed for time) are certainly overplayed, but that doesn't make them bad tunes.
i d give anything to write just one tune so popular, even though i d only play frank's if i had a blank and couldn't think of anything else. i d only play pressed for time if i could
oh, and they re not irish tunes, both from scottish composers.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by saltybrian
Re: What are the chords to...
They're not overplayed in sessions I go to, thank goodness.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
For the first part, I would just play normal chords for any tune in A. The second part, for the syncopated bit, I usually play A G# F# E or A B C#
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Rosh
Re: What are the chords to...
Interesting one for me this. I absolutely *hated* Frank's until I heard a great PA player (yes, there are some) at my session play it ... and he really brought it to life. To the extent that I just *had* the tune after a time or so through. And now I can't stop playing it.
It would be one of the world's great challenges though for me to hear ANYONE playing Tam Lin and it have any effect on me other than nausea.
Oh, and Dow's got it spot on - the non-gimmicky things in ITM are the Irish things; the gimmicky things are the non-Irish ones that are put in for the sake of ... well, gimmick ... (still like Frank's now though)
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What are the chords to...
"oh, and they re not irish tunes, both from scottish composers."
Exactly, Brian. Although some of this crowd here would argue that if they are in the Irish session repertoire they became Irish tunes.
# Posted on April 19th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: What are the chords to...
Or they're tunes which should have stayed in Scotland
# Posted on April 20th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
And, pray, who was it took these Scottish tunes to Ireland? Might it, in fact, have been the Irish?
Syncopation may be "gimmicky" in ITM (gosh, this music police line is reminding me of "box and fiddle" regulations) but these tunes are not ITM. So presumably when played in Scotland they're not gimmicky (syncopation certainly being accepted in the modern bagpipe scene) but when played in an ITM context they are. Now I get it!
# Posted on April 20th 2007 by DonaldK
Re: What are the chords to...
Don't care who took them to Ireland, they should have had more sense.
# Posted on April 20th 2007 by Dow
Re: What are the chords to...
Why not try taking the syncopation out of Frank's Reel and see what happens? I'm not particularly enamoured of that tune in particular, but another of 'those syncopated A tunes' that I do like is The Easy Club http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/955 , which, in the setting posted here, has no syncopation, although the way it was played by The Easy Club themselves (including its composer, Jim Sutherland), had syncopation in both the A and B parts. The unsyncopated version may sound more 'Irish', but I still think it's a good tune even with the syncopation. There are strong tunes and weak tunes and tunes that should never have been written - and there are tunes that fit into one idiom and tunes that fit into another, and tunes that don't fit into any, and tunes that try to fit in but fail. The strongest tunes can stand up to all kinds of abuse, improvement, modification, stylisation, evolution, deterioration and still sound good.
Who was it that described Donegal music as "Scottish music with the kinks ironed out"? There as been a lot of ironing out of kinks during the transference of tunes from Scotland to Ireland in general, over many centuries. Syncopation is just one more kind of 'kink' that the tune immigaration department's laundry has to contend with. It's up to the visionary types to see past the kinks and recognise which tunes will stand up to the iron and which will crack and crumble.
# Posted on April 22nd 2007 by ragaman