I just began playing the button accordion a few days ago, and am enjoying it immensely. I've already logged several hours on it, and the only instruction I've had so far is watching dozens of youtube videos in order to see how other players old their boxes, and finding tunes by ear.
However my arm about 3 inches up from my wrist is getting quite sore from playing. I wouldn't worry about it, but after an hour or so, I can actually feel my circulation being cut off from a lot of playing. The box has a very sharp edge, I'm a small guy, and I'm seated, holding the treble side quite low near the bend of my left hip and angled a bit forward, as I've seen most single strap players do.
Has anyone else had this problem? Is this something I'll toughen up to? Is it because of the shape of the box (as I've seen many other styles that seem to be rounded more) or the way I'm holding it?
Hohner have started fixing a thin strip of wood (about one inch wide by a quarter inch thick) down the back edge of the left hand side end plate on the pokerwork model, probably to avoid the problem you describe. The rounded edge of the strip overlaps the sharp corner of the back panel which is the source of discomfort. It's a simple effective way of dealing with it - perhaps you could copy it to suit your own box.
Be careful it doesn't develop into carpal tunnel problems. If you get any sign of numbness, tingling and pain, especially at night, see a Dr. immediately. Whatever you do, don't let it go, it can get very painful, and is easy to heal in early stages. Later you might need surgery which doesn't always work.
I play guitar and am battling the problem, successfully, since it was caught very early. Guitars can give players an underarm pinch on the picking arm, that apparently can trigger carpal tunnel problems because it is a pressure point and refers pain to the wrist somehow along nerve channels. I have wrist splints and wear them day and night unless I need my hands for playing or washing dishes etc.. You can do most daily activities with them on. They help a lot, you can get them at most big drugstores. They may help if after you play you wear them. You do get used to them. They also have less restrictive ones that are padded which may work for when you play the box.
I have an ergonomic guitar with a sloped rounded edge, very comfy instead of a sharp pinching edge. Maybe padding, as people are recommending will help. If that doesn't help it could be the angle you hold your hands at or something. or RSI, repetitive stress injury.
Don't let the pain go too long or try to be stoic, you can do things that keep it from progressing and can heal the wrists. Surgery, if it goes too far, means no playing for a few months, and then physical therapy for a while.
A lot of musicians, fiddlers too, are prone to this repetitive stress injury type of thing. I know some that run warm water on their hands periodically, and always before playing. That does help a lot in relaxing muscles. Baby your hands the rest of the time. I gave up using my chainsaw to chop wood... much as I enjoyed it (yes really!) I think it is what originally led to the carpal tunnel problems, then playing became difficult, but the main pain and tingling, for some reason happens when you sleep.
If you develop CT, a few weeks of anti-inflamatories and splints can get rid of it before there is real nerve damage, which can be permenant.
Could it also be that if you are a new player there are certain little hand/wrist muscles that are not built up yet? Maybe hand exercises can help? I never played box, but for guitar it takes a good while to develop the strength in the hands to the point where you are a relaxed and loose player, paradoxical as that sounds it is true. Maybe it's the same? Maybe your box is particularly stiff? Maybe a more experienced player can asses that. Sometimes someone has trouble on a guitar and I play it and say... no wonder! Needs some adjustments.
Hi ! I've benne playing button accordion for years : what you describe is a problem that occurs on some boxes that have sharp edges, but it also comes from the postion you take while playing. I had a bad position (back too arched backwards, shoulder blades squeezed) when I started, and I even ended up with a big lump purple looking on the wrist, and 2 weeks without playing to allow the wrist to mend. You have different solutions : put a leather pad on the box where the wrist touches, or cut the edge of the box a bit (can be done without damage to the instrument itself), but i'd recommend you try to find a different body position when you play : round your back slightly, play "forward" : I tell my pupils accordion is an instrument you "embrace" : you can't do this if your back is arched. As you're a beginner, try to get the quickest possible a comfortable position. Once you've got used to a bad position, it's very difficult to change.
hope that's any help. and what irisnevins says is very important
When I attended college studying TCM and massage therapy, there was a book my professor recomended to the students. It was apparently written by a bodyworker who nearly destroyed her own hands and wrists, then decided the business needed a good book on preventative medicine and exercises.
"Save Your Hands, Injury Prevention for Massage Therapists."
Might be worth checking out.
Also, when your body gives you pain, it is a warning. Drugs that relieve symptoms without reversing the causes are only enabling you to continue with the behaviour which caused the condition in the first place. Ie, if you have a headache from accidently whacking yourself in the head, aspirin is not the answer. You stop whacking yourself in the head first.
Sounds like a great book, I will get it. I am told though, that while aspirin or similar is not the cure of the cause, getting the inflamation down initially while working on the cause is very helpful. You don't want to keep doing what gave the pain though, that's the most important thing.
I looked at hand position and how I sit and thought about it as a PA player. I have not had the symptom you have learning button box. Look at how you position your left hand and how you are moving the bellows.
The only part of the left hand I have on the box is the fleshy part below the thumb and use side of the the thumb for the air button. The bottom part of the hand is up slightly from the face of the box. Wrist is slightly arched up.
So, very little pressure is caused on the wrist by the edge.
All good points so far, but I think something that might not have been mentioned is the fact you've gone from zero to hours and hours of playing without building up slowly.
If I had to go and dig a garden for hours now I would ache all over because of muscles I'm not used to using, being unfit etc.
As well as adjusting your instrument and using the correct posture, take lots of breaks, stretch a lot and be relaxed while playing. Also, breathe properly. I know you're not playing an instrument you have to breathe into but make sure you're not holding your breathe or have any tension in your body. Practise little and often not for hours at a time.
Fiddlebabe has an important point with button boxes : breathing : take care you don't breathe with the bellows : I had a pupil who was hyperventilating (I hope that's how you say it in english) because he was breathing with the pushing and pulling. I had to devise exercises for him : playing push-pull scales whilst breathing in long breaths, i.e. The proper breathing makes you relax, and helps finding the right position.
So many things to think about when playing...
I'd still have someone check out if your box is an easy player and you just have to get used to it, or if it needs some setup work as they say for stringed instruments, I don't know what the box term would be, but maybe it can be lossened up somehow for lack of a better word, so you don't work as hard?
I see new guitarists and true for other musicians, just working too hard. Sometimes it is very much due to the set up of the instrument. You almost always need to tailor the set up to the individual, rarely is it just right off the store shelves.
So take that into account too and all the above great pointers people have given and life may just get easier on your wrists.
Wrist Discomfort
Wrist Discomfort
I just began playing the button accordion a few days ago, and am enjoying it immensely. I've already logged several hours on it, and the only instruction I've had so far is watching dozens of youtube videos in order to see how other players old their boxes, and finding tunes by ear.
However my arm about 3 inches up from my wrist is getting quite sore from playing. I wouldn't worry about it, but after an hour or so, I can actually feel my circulation being cut off from a lot of playing. The box has a very sharp edge, I'm a small guy, and I'm seated, holding the treble side quite low near the bend of my left hip and angled a bit forward, as I've seen most single strap players do.
Has anyone else had this problem? Is this something I'll toughen up to? Is it because of the shape of the box (as I've seen many other styles that seem to be rounded more) or the way I'm holding it?
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by devinomatic
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Oh, to clarify, this is on the left (bass) hand, and it's the rear bass edge that's just pressing up against it.
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by devinomatic
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Hohner have started fixing a thin strip of wood (about one inch wide by a quarter inch thick) down the back edge of the left hand side end plate on the pokerwork model, probably to avoid the problem you describe. The rounded edge of the strip overlaps the sharp corner of the back panel which is the source of discomfort. It's a simple effective way of dealing with it - perhaps you could copy it to suit your own box.
MYBC
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Another remedy is to wear the type of wristband that some sporty types wear to stop the sweat dribbling down the arm.
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Theo Gibb
Re: Wrist Discomfort
From what I understand, it's an occupational hazard of button box playing :D
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Tirno
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Sharon Shannon always seems to use a great lump of padding on that side of the box, see image here http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/womad2004/media/wmdsharonshanon.jpg
If it's ok with Ms. Shannon.........................................
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Backer
Re: Wrist Discomfort
I think that's also cos she's allergic to the varnish
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by sneetch
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Be careful it doesn't develop into carpal tunnel problems. If you get any sign of numbness, tingling and pain, especially at night, see a Dr. immediately. Whatever you do, don't let it go, it can get very painful, and is easy to heal in early stages. Later you might need surgery which doesn't always work.
I play guitar and am battling the problem, successfully, since it was caught very early. Guitars can give players an underarm pinch on the picking arm, that apparently can trigger carpal tunnel problems because it is a pressure point and refers pain to the wrist somehow along nerve channels. I have wrist splints and wear them day and night unless I need my hands for playing or washing dishes etc.. You can do most daily activities with them on. They help a lot, you can get them at most big drugstores. They may help if after you play you wear them. You do get used to them. They also have less restrictive ones that are padded which may work for when you play the box.
I have an ergonomic guitar with a sloped rounded edge, very comfy instead of a sharp pinching edge. Maybe padding, as people are recommending will help. If that doesn't help it could be the angle you hold your hands at or something. or RSI, repetitive stress injury.
Don't let the pain go too long or try to be stoic, you can do things that keep it from progressing and can heal the wrists. Surgery, if it goes too far, means no playing for a few months, and then physical therapy for a while.
A lot of musicians, fiddlers too, are prone to this repetitive stress injury type of thing. I know some that run warm water on their hands periodically, and always before playing. That does help a lot in relaxing muscles. Baby your hands the rest of the time. I gave up using my chainsaw to chop wood... much as I enjoyed it (yes really!) I think it is what originally led to the carpal tunnel problems, then playing became difficult, but the main pain and tingling, for some reason happens when you sleep.
If you develop CT, a few weeks of anti-inflamatories and splints can get rid of it before there is real nerve damage, which can be permenant.
Could it also be that if you are a new player there are certain little hand/wrist muscles that are not built up yet? Maybe hand exercises can help? I never played box, but for guitar it takes a good while to develop the strength in the hands to the point where you are a relaxed and loose player, paradoxical as that sounds it is true. Maybe it's the same? Maybe your box is particularly stiff? Maybe a more experienced player can asses that. Sometimes someone has trouble on a guitar and I play it and say... no wonder! Needs some adjustments.
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Hi ! I've benne playing button accordion for years : what you describe is a problem that occurs on some boxes that have sharp edges, but it also comes from the postion you take while playing. I had a bad position (back too arched backwards, shoulder blades squeezed) when I started, and I even ended up with a big lump purple looking on the wrist, and 2 weeks without playing to allow the wrist to mend. You have different solutions : put a leather pad on the box where the wrist touches, or cut the edge of the box a bit (can be done without damage to the instrument itself), but i'd recommend you try to find a different body position when you play : round your back slightly, play "forward" : I tell my pupils accordion is an instrument you "embrace" : you can't do this if your back is arched. As you're a beginner, try to get the quickest possible a comfortable position. Once you've got used to a bad position, it's very difficult to change.
hope that's any help. and what irisnevins says is very important
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Wrist Discomfort
When I attended college studying TCM and massage therapy, there was a book my professor recomended to the students. It was apparently written by a bodyworker who nearly destroyed her own hands and wrists, then decided the business needed a good book on preventative medicine and exercises.
"Save Your Hands, Injury Prevention for Massage Therapists."
Might be worth checking out.
Also, when your body gives you pain, it is a warning. Drugs that relieve symptoms without reversing the causes are only enabling you to continue with the behaviour which caused the condition in the first place. Ie, if you have a headache from accidently whacking yourself in the head, aspirin is not the answer. You stop whacking yourself in the head first.
Good luck.
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by Rook
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Sounds like a great book, I will get it. I am told though, that while aspirin or similar is not the cure of the cause, getting the inflamation down initially while working on the cause is very helpful. You don't want to keep doing what gave the pain though, that's the most important thing.
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Nikita beat me to the punch.
I looked at hand position and how I sit and thought about it as a PA player. I have not had the symptom you have learning button box. Look at how you position your left hand and how you are moving the bellows.
The only part of the left hand I have on the box is the fleshy part below the thumb and use side of the the thumb for the air button. The bottom part of the hand is up slightly from the face of the box. Wrist is slightly arched up.
So, very little pressure is caused on the wrist by the edge.
For what its worth, hope it helps
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Wrist Discomfort
So, Iris, you include both musicians *and* fiddlers...
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Oh...don't take it that way Bob!! Just words, of course they are musicians, thou toyest with my wording!!
Point is... never take the hands for granted. They can suddenly start hurting when they never did before. Not good.
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Wrist Discomfort
All good points so far, but I think something that might not have been mentioned is the fact you've gone from zero to hours and hours of playing without building up slowly.
If I had to go and dig a garden for hours now I would ache all over because of muscles I'm not used to using, being unfit etc.
As well as adjusting your instrument and using the correct posture, take lots of breaks, stretch a lot and be relaxed while playing. Also, breathe properly. I know you're not playing an instrument you have to breathe into but make sure you're not holding your breathe or have any tension in your body. Practise little and often not for hours at a time.
Take it easy.
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by Fiddlebabe
Re: Wrist Discomfort
Fiddlebabe has an important point with button boxes : breathing : take care you don't breathe with the bellows : I had a pupil who was hyperventilating (I hope that's how you say it in english) because he was breathing with the pushing and pulling. I had to devise exercises for him : playing push-pull scales whilst breathing in long breaths, i.e. The proper breathing makes you relax, and helps finding the right position.
So many things to think about when playing...
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Wrist Discomfort
I'd still have someone check out if your box is an easy player and you just have to get used to it, or if it needs some setup work as they say for stringed instruments, I don't know what the box term would be, but maybe it can be lossened up somehow for lack of a better word, so you don't work as hard?
I see new guitarists and true for other musicians, just working too hard. Sometimes it is very much due to the set up of the instrument. You almost always need to tailor the set up to the individual, rarely is it just right off the store shelves.
So take that into account too and all the above great pointers people have given and life may just get easier on your wrists.
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by irisnevins