I think I'm going to have to put my foot down about all these links to YouTube looking for tune titles. They aren't really discussions, are they? And seeing as YouTube provides its own comment mechanism, I really don't think that the discussions area of The Session is the best place for these questions.
Can't help you with the tune, but to Jermey, I know you are the webmaster here so I hope you don't stop links like this, becasuse.
1) There are a lot more knowledge of irish tunes here than on youtube, and I've sometimes waited months for a reply on the comments function at youtube, but got my answers in one day at this forum.
2) Many of the links I've never find myself at youtube and it's of great interest for me and I belive other ITM fans
3) Can't see why discussions like these should a annoy anybody.
I'm inclined to agree with TradLad about the lack of knowledge on YouTube, and the links you wouldn't otherwise find.
On the other hand, someone started a discussion about this very vid clip only last month http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13106. Finding another "discussion" about the same tune is rather tedious, so I see Jeremy's point too.
Just kinda highlights the difficulty as it is of finding (a) notes for a tune (b) a tune name(s) on this site or anywhere for that matter. Of course, if you just learn by ear and are not bothered about tune names or anecdotes then there's no problem at all.
Given that there are many possible way of noting a tune in ABC and given the variety of names, the only solution really is to play the tune or roughly notate it and hope someone more knowledgeable can spot it, kinda needs human intervention.
So, I can see Jeremy's point - the place can just get blocked up with people looking for notes/ tune names.
I don't what the solution is but the Mission statement here refers to the sharing of tunes etc. and that's a 2 way process ... those who know a tune and submit it and those that don't and who are looking for it. The first is well looked after, it's the other side that's the 'problem', I would think in my very humble opinion!
The only thing I would say, as a plea to Jeremy is - I've learnt a huge amount from people's links to YouTube. And, frankly, I'd never get there on my own, and that means I'd stop learning ... and that's what I really value about this site - the fact I learn so much whilst visiting it.
My .02 worth---I like the YouTube links just because I've been able to learn about new artists and new tunes that way---session.orgers share my taste in music (hallelujah!) and I almost always like the videos they find.
Considering that 5 of the last 50 threads have been "help me figure out what tune this is" threads (most of them pointing to YouTube), maybe something that is generating 10% of the threads should have its own section of the site?
For myself, when I come across a tune that I don't know what it is, I learn bits of it and do some text searches through the tune archive. I've found that Google works a bit better than the Advanced Search function because it is better about ignoring punctuation, and such. And there is a bit of an art to doing text searches, since people will sometimes put ornamentation into their ABC transcriptions, so it's important to select just 4-6 notes that you're confident are a key phrase in the tune, search on that, and dig through the sometimes large amount of results you might get. But it rarely fails me.
BTW, to use google to search the site, in a google search box, use their 'site' modifier, for instance:
where the day's accumulation of offal, jeers and rotten produce have me foreswearing EVER doing THIS again, my only defence is that you (yes, YOU) fellow sessioneers are my LAST point of reference, after exhausting all other avenues including friends, teachers, multiple search engines, divinations, and cranial wrenching. But no more. I shall live in darkness. Humming some nameless ditty.
Jeremy, my 2 cents as a relative newcomer contributor to the site ... It seems to me that these requests for ID, however brief, are far more relevant to the stated mission of the site -- "passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes" -- than many of the discussions here. Not to mention the unstated mission of simply helping out fellow music enthusiasts. And if repetitiveness and relevance were criteria for limiting discussions, then I imagine your foot should be sore from coming down.
Personally, these tune ID requests invariably send me to look. Often I'll learn something excellent -- a new tune, a new setting, a new musician. I've transcribed a few of these new finds and added them to the tune database. Isn't that consonant with the core mission?
If repeated tune ID requests are the problem, then a separate section is a fine idea, regardless of the source. But YouTube isn't going away as a stimulant of ITM interest and learning no less than other online resources or thesession.org itself. I would hate to see these requests singled out, particularly compared to some of the (to me) less edifying discussions which *are* apparently tolerated here in the spirit of broad interest.
Pete, they're all dressed alike because it was a memorial concert/fundraiser for (if I remember right, which I rarely do these days) Dave Williams and family.
One possible solution to Jeremy's concerns is to simply email the link to another member or two here and ask them to id the tune for you. I get these sorts of requests fairly often, and I'm guessing tune gurus like Dow and Kenny get them all the time. Doesn't take long to answer 99% of them. And the other 1% are almost always interesting.
Well Jeremy it is your site so I know that what you say goes, but I have also found the links to youtube a great way of discovering new tunes and musicians.
The clip posted above led me to The Herschel Arms site and from that I downloaded The Virginia set. I know two of the tunes already and have now started to pick up the third, The Virginia reel. Is this such a bad thing? Surely this kind of moving around the net is what a site like this is all about.
At my local sessions people often ask the name of a tune they don't know why should it be any different at this 'session'?
Only Jeremy can be the final arbriter on the make up of this site as he knows the problems in keeping the structure together and giving us trad musicians a first-class resource. It's also a great facility for social interaction which bridges nations and continents. However, having said this I find the links to Youtube of great value in finding interesting trad clips - an example being Fred Finn & Peter Horan some weeks ago; also if you're looking for a tune name, it's easier to provide the link than attempting to write down a couple of bars of the ABCs.
I'd be interested to know more about what your objections are to this kind of thread. I'm not a constant user of this site and this is the first thread like it I have come across, but I found the the trip to YouTube was a pleasurable addition to the The Session experience.
I agree with most of the postings here that the YOUTUBE music links are useful and generally interesting. I have found a number of the videos really great fun and educational. To hear the music is in my opinion far more valuable than trying to get my head around an abc file, although they of course have their place too.
I should know this tune, but...
I should know this tune, but...
I don't. Hopefully you do, and can tell me the name, for which you earn: 1/ recognition kudos 2/ an ITM knowledge base gold star 3/ my humble thanks . Cheers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_nc4-xxdMA&mode=related&search=
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by drone
Re: I should know this tune, but...
I think I'm going to have to put my foot down about all these links to YouTube looking for tune titles. They aren't really discussions, are they? And seeing as YouTube provides its own comment mechanism, I really don't think that the discussions area of The Session is the best place for these questions.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by Jeremy
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Can't help you with the tune, but to Jermey, I know you are the webmaster here so I hope you don't stop links like this, becasuse.
1) There are a lot more knowledge of irish tunes here than on youtube, and I've sometimes waited months for a reply on the comments function at youtube, but got my answers in one day at this forum.
2) Many of the links I've never find myself at youtube and it's of great interest for me and I belive other ITM fans
3) Can't see why discussions like these should a annoy anybody.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by TradLad
Re: I should know this tune, but...
I'm inclined to agree with TradLad about the lack of knowledge on YouTube, and the links you wouldn't otherwise find.
On the other hand, someone started a discussion about this very vid clip only last month http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13106. Finding another "discussion" about the same tune is rather tedious, so I see Jeremy's point too.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by Dow
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Just kinda highlights the difficulty as it is of finding (a) notes for a tune (b) a tune name(s) on this site or anywhere for that matter. Of course, if you just learn by ear and are not bothered about tune names or anecdotes then there's no problem at all.
Given that there are many possible way of noting a tune in ABC and given the variety of names, the only solution really is to play the tune or roughly notate it and hope someone more knowledgeable can spot it, kinda needs human intervention.
So, I can see Jeremy's point - the place can just get blocked up with people looking for notes/ tune names.
I don't what the solution is but the Mission statement here refers to the sharing of tunes etc. and that's a 2 way process ... those who know a tune and submit it and those that don't and who are looking for it. The first is well looked after, it's the other side that's the 'problem', I would think in my very humble opinion!
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by the wounded hussar
I should have known better.
Jeremy's right, Jeremy's site.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by drone
Re: I should know this tune, but...
The only thing I would say, as a plea to Jeremy is - I've learnt a huge amount from people's links to YouTube. And, frankly, I'd never get there on my own, and that means I'd stop learning ... and that's what I really value about this site - the fact I learn so much whilst visiting it.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: I should know this tune, but...
The Mystery Reel! The music is already posted!
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by Bacon and Cabbage
Re: I should know this tune, but...
My .02 worth---I like the YouTube links just because I've been able to learn about new artists and new tunes that way---session.orgers share my taste in music (hallelujah!) and I almost always like the videos they find.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by kennedy
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Considering that 5 of the last 50 threads have been "help me figure out what tune this is" threads (most of them pointing to YouTube), maybe something that is generating 10% of the threads should have its own section of the site?
For myself, when I come across a tune that I don't know what it is, I learn bits of it and do some text searches through the tune archive. I've found that Google works a bit better than the Advanced Search function because it is better about ignoring punctuation, and such. And there is a bit of an art to doing text searches, since people will sometimes put ornamentation into their ABC transcriptions, so it's important to select just 4-6 notes that you're confident are a key phrase in the tune, search on that, and dig through the sometimes large amount of results you might get. But it rarely fails me.
BTW, to use google to search the site, in a google search box, use their 'site' modifier, for instance:
site:thesession.org "fad g2d"
It works pretty well!
Pete
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by Reverend
And from the pillory...
where the day's accumulation of offal, jeers and rotten produce have me foreswearing EVER doing THIS again, my only defence is that you (yes, YOU) fellow sessioneers are my LAST point of reference, after exhausting all other avenues including friends, teachers, multiple search engines, divinations, and cranial wrenching. But no more. I shall live in darkness. Humming some nameless ditty.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by drone
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Jeremy, my 2 cents as a relative newcomer contributor to the site ... It seems to me that these requests for ID, however brief, are far more relevant to the stated mission of the site -- "passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes" -- than many of the discussions here. Not to mention the unstated mission of simply helping out fellow music enthusiasts. And if repetitiveness and relevance were criteria for limiting discussions, then I imagine your foot should be sore from coming down.
Personally, these tune ID requests invariably send me to look. Often I'll learn something excellent -- a new tune, a new setting, a new musician. I've transcribed a few of these new finds and added them to the tune database. Isn't that consonant with the core mission?
If repeated tune ID requests are the problem, then a separate section is a fine idea, regardless of the source. But YouTube isn't going away as a stimulant of ITM interest and learning no less than other online resources or thesession.org itself. I would hate to see these requests singled out, particularly compared to some of the (to me) less edifying discussions which *are* apparently tolerated here in the spirit of broad interest.
But your site, your rules, obviously ... Cheers!
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by MTGuru
Re: I should know this tune, but...
What's the guy in the back eating?
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Hmm, looks like breakfast cereal. Maybe it was a morning session. Wait! There's empty pints on the table - it MUST be a breakfast session!
What I want to know is why they're all dressed alike...
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Reverend
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Pete, they're all dressed alike because it was a memorial concert/fundraiser for (if I remember right, which I rarely do these days) Dave Williams and family.
One possible solution to Jeremy's concerns is to simply email the link to another member or two here and ask them to id the tune for you. I get these sorts of requests fairly often, and I'm guessing tune gurus like Dow and Kenny get them all the time. Doesn't take long to answer 99% of them. And the other 1% are almost always interesting.
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Heck, Will, emailing you is probably a lot easier than learning snippets and doing my own searches!
Get ready for the barrage of emails
Pete
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Reverend
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Well Jeremy it is your site so I know that what you say goes, but I have also found the links to youtube a great way of discovering new tunes and musicians.
The clip posted above led me to The Herschel Arms site and from that I downloaded The Virginia set. I know two of the tunes already and have now started to pick up the third, The Virginia reel. Is this such a bad thing? Surely this kind of moving around the net is what a site like this is all about.
At my local sessions people often ask the name of a tune they don't know why should it be any different at this 'session'?
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by flossie
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Only Jeremy can be the final arbriter on the make up of this site as he knows the problems in keeping the structure together and giving us trad musicians a first-class resource. It's also a great facility for social interaction which bridges nations and continents. However, having said this I find the links to Youtube of great value in finding interesting trad clips - an example being Fred Finn & Peter Horan some weeks ago; also if you're looking for a tune name, it's easier to provide the link than attempting to write down a couple of bars of the ABCs.
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: I should know this tune, but...
Hi Jeremy,
I'd be interested to know more about what your objections are to this kind of thread. I'm not a constant user of this site and this is the first thread like it I have come across, but I found the the trip to YouTube was a pleasurable addition to the The Session experience.
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Bernie 29
Re: I should know this tune, but...
I agree with most of the postings here that the YOUTUBE music links are useful and generally interesting. I have found a number of the videos really great fun and educational. To hear the music is in my opinion far more valuable than trying to get my head around an abc file, although they of course have their place too.
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by Jon_bailey