I recently read an old interview with Sean McGuire where he said that the sessions when he was a kid were all house sessions, but that later sessions moved to the pubs. Assuming this is accurate, does anyone have any insight into why sesions moved into the pubs?
In Irish life, the pub is the center of all activity. Christenings, marriages, funerals. etc. The Irish economy has also slowly gotten better since the declaration of a republic so Irishmen had more money to spend on a pint out. Conversely, as the price of a night out is skyrocketing in Ireland, a quiet pint at home is becoming more common. Maybe house sessions will make a comeback too. They have in the SF bay area.
I believ the argument is that repressive legislation in Eire in the 30s' discouraged most forms of live music ( to prevent fornication, I ask you ! ), hence driving people into house sessions; whereas in Britain and the US, etc, the pub or bar became a home from home, a place where you could meet others from your country, encouraging the playing of music as part of the ambiance.
Also many Irish immigrants did not have homes conducive to holding music sessions when they first arrived in the country.
Well I personally prefer house sessions to pub sessions. More young people (under 18 and even less than teenage years) are playing Irish music and the pub will not always let them in. House sessions seem more relaxed and close and, if you live there, you can drink all you want without needing to worry about driving home. When a family becomes involved, I know house sessions might be a pain in the arse but certainly, I know a bunch of 18-30 year olds who have regular house sessions in the Dublin area.
They're different - that's for sure. I really love them both. We have a monthly house session here now (on the night when the pub has its singing session). We do have the occassional under-ager, and having the house session helps. But mainly it's great because we can have some grub too, and there's less urgency too cut talk short, and play. But the nice thing about pub sessions, aside from having a bar right there, is that it's something you're doing in the public realm. It's like reading in a cafe, rather than your living room. Even though "it's not a performance," it's changed by that - in a positive and interesting way.
I prefer the house sessions but they are a lot of work, cleanup before and after, if your own house, and you can't usually hold as many people so you invite your best pals and then when others hear they are offended. Parking can be an issue in most places, what if you are tired and want to go to sleep.
My ideal is a house session with about five player at most, where you swap tunes a lot. A pub though... you don't clean up, you can go home when tired or had enough. Someone makes you dinner and gives you what you want to drink (even though you pay it's a nice change). At your house you can play with whomever you want though. I'd love to have them more but it's easier to go to a pub.
Ah yes but in those good old days the woman knew her place and would have been at home all the time keeping it clean and tidy ready for the husband to come home from his hard days work and bring his friends over to play some tunes, and she would have been there to serve them drinks and home baked biscuits and cakes and to tidy up and wash glasses as they played. But nowadays these women want to work and play the music too. It's a disgrace!
I read somewhere - possibly Peter Woods' book - that pub sessions started as a necessity in London, because at the time - late 40's early 50's of the last century - most Irish emigrees lived in digs in the London tenements of Kilburn, Cricklewood and Camden etc. So any players wouldn't have been allowed to play - on their own, never mind a few players - in their bedsits.
And in any case, if your digs are a bedsit, you wouldn't want to spend any more time there than you have to apart from sleeping there, so where would thirsty young working men congregate? Yep, that's right the pub. And how would they bring a bit of home to the pub? Yep, playing or listening to the music. So if you look at it like that, there was almost no alternative to pub sessions arising, and no way they couldn't have arisen in those circumstances.
There's a certain animosity towards pubs which I think is unfair. The "den of vice" thing that prudes find inescapable. But a pub is only the people in it. You don't have to drink booze, in fact, any landlord would rather you drank soft drinks, bigger mark up and he doesn't have to deal with p*ssed people. Me and my mates treat our pub as a home from home and that's how it should be. The Landlord is a respected institution, who's not there very often anyway. The head barman is a mate. And you can go in any time of day (when it's open) and be virtually guaranteed of meeting someone you know. And there's music every night and through the day at weekends (often good music, often awful, but music anyway). And yeah, we watch football on the bit telly sometimes too. And go outside to smoke. Home from home.
Lucky you, you don't have to inhale other peoples' smoke. Down here we'll have to wait till July 1st for that. The rest of what you said is spot on, though.
There was a time when I worked on building site and lived in bedsits in London. In quite a lot of these pubs up the Harrow Road you could buy a bloody good evening dinner very cheaply. Mince and spuds and peas and so on. Some lads didn't even bother getting changed out of their building site clothes. I was posh because I'd go home for a shower first and get changed into "civvies", then go drinking. The Guinness was just diesel as you'd burn it off the next day, digging or shuttering or whatever.
That is a very interesting link ceolachan. A sad story. You'd expect this kind of lunacy before 1921, but for the Irish to inflict this on themselves is ... well just sad.
It wasn't the 'Irish', it was DeValera, who was by all accounts full of himself. But there is more context to it all than merely the 'Act'. He was worried about the IRA, who weren't exactly full of joy about the 'new government'...
I am only speaking in pieces here as my knowledge is such, but I keep an open mind and am always eager to learn more, to understand. I must admit biases are sometimes hard to soften and I have no love for that particular asshole of history... He was a hypocrit and more damage was done to the language and the tradition after they got in power than the English had done, or at least as much... He couldn't see the truth before him and so manufactured his own fantasies as to what it was all about. But we are all to some degree guilty of such delusions, one way or the t'other... DeValera though had 'power' and 'attitude' and was part of the early establishment of a corrupt and deluded government in dear Eire.
That asside, there is much for Eire to be proud of, and as a leader on some fronts in Europe and the world. I have faith in people, that we at least strive for a fairer and kinder world, if not always achieving that wish... So much damage has been done with 'best intentions', a word, the writing on a piece of paper...
Not 'the people' ~ despite the assumption that polititicians 'represent' 'us', 'the people' ~ it is more often not the truth... Those who wield power in our names are often the pupets of others, those with vested interest, or worse, they are tyrants...
Into the Pubs
Into the Pubs
I recently read an old interview with Sean McGuire where he said that the sessions when he was a kid were all house sessions, but that later sessions moved to the pubs. Assuming this is accurate, does anyone have any insight into why sesions moved into the pubs?
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Strummer007
Re: Into the Pubs
To grab a pint.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by sergeant fox
Re: Into the Pubs
Popular demand. The public craves for what we do.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by feardearg
Re: Into the Pubs
I like your thinking Sergeant Fox, but I'm guessing those house sessions were well lubricated with stout and whiskey.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Strummer007
Re: Into the Pubs
Neighbours from hell . . bang bang bang (on the wall) "STOP THAT DIDDLY DEE RACKET OR I'LL PUT YOUR WINDOWS THROUGH " !
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Justintime
Re: Into the Pubs
Punters. They give such wonderful input.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by feardearg
Re: Into the Pubs
You try living next door to my punters !
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Justintime
Re: Into the Pubs
In Irish life, the pub is the center of all activity. Christenings, marriages, funerals. etc. The Irish economy has also slowly gotten better since the declaration of a republic so Irishmen had more money to spend on a pint out. Conversely, as the price of a night out is skyrocketing in Ireland, a quiet pint at home is becoming more common. Maybe house sessions will make a comeback too. They have in the SF bay area.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Farr
Re: Into the Pubs
I believ the argument is that repressive legislation in Eire in the 30s' discouraged most forms of live music ( to prevent fornication, I ask you ! ), hence driving people into house sessions; whereas in Britain and the US, etc, the pub or bar became a home from home, a place where you could meet others from your country, encouraging the playing of music as part of the ambiance.
Also many Irish immigrants did not have homes conducive to holding music sessions when they first arrived in the country.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Into the Pubs
"Maybe house sessions will make a comeback too"
Well I personally prefer house sessions to pub sessions. More young people (under 18 and even less than teenage years) are playing Irish music and the pub will not always let them in. House sessions seem more relaxed and close and, if you live there, you can drink all you want without needing to worry about driving home. When a family becomes involved, I know house sessions might be a pain in the arse but certainly, I know a bunch of 18-30 year olds who have regular house sessions in the Dublin area.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by 52Paddy
Re: Into the Pubs
They're different - that's for sure. I really love them both. We have a monthly house session here now (on the night when the pub has its singing session). We do have the occassional under-ager, and having the house session helps. But mainly it's great because we can have some grub too, and there's less urgency too cut talk short, and play. But the nice thing about pub sessions, aside from having a bar right there, is that it's something you're doing in the public realm. It's like reading in a cafe, rather than your living room. Even though "it's not a performance," it's changed by that - in a positive and interesting way.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Into the Pubs
I prefer the house sessions but they are a lot of work, cleanup before and after, if your own house, and you can't usually hold as many people so you invite your best pals and then when others hear they are offended. Parking can be an issue in most places, what if you are tired and want to go to sleep.
My ideal is a house session with about five player at most, where you swap tunes a lot. A pub though... you don't clean up, you can go home when tired or had enough. Someone makes you dinner and gives you what you want to drink (even though you pay it's a nice change). At your house you can play with whomever you want though. I'd love to have them more but it's easier to go to a pub.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Into the Pubs
Ah yes but in those good old days the woman knew her place and would have been at home all the time keeping it clean and tidy ready for the husband to come home from his hard days work and bring his friends over to play some tunes, and she would have been there to serve them drinks and home baked biscuits and cakes and to tidy up and wash glasses as they played. But nowadays these women want to work and play the music too. It's a disgrace!
# Posted on April 12th 2007 by bowburner
Re: Into the Pubs
I read somewhere - possibly Peter Woods' book - that pub sessions started as a necessity in London, because at the time - late 40's early 50's of the last century - most Irish emigrees lived in digs in the London tenements of Kilburn, Cricklewood and Camden etc. So any players wouldn't have been allowed to play - on their own, never mind a few players - in their bedsits.
And in any case, if your digs are a bedsit, you wouldn't want to spend any more time there than you have to apart from sleeping there, so where would thirsty young working men congregate? Yep, that's right the pub. And how would they bring a bit of home to the pub? Yep, playing or listening to the music. So if you look at it like that, there was almost no alternative to pub sessions arising, and no way they couldn't have arisen in those circumstances.
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Into the Pubs
Yes, I like the inevitability of it.
There's a certain animosity towards pubs which I think is unfair. The "den of vice" thing that prudes find inescapable. But a pub is only the people in it. You don't have to drink booze, in fact, any landlord would rather you drank soft drinks, bigger mark up and he doesn't have to deal with p*ssed people. Me and my mates treat our pub as a home from home and that's how it should be. The Landlord is a respected institution, who's not there very often anyway. The head barman is a mate. And you can go in any time of day (when it's open) and be virtually guaranteed of meeting someone you know. And there's music every night and through the day at weekends (often good music, often awful, but music anyway). And yeah, we watch football on the bit telly sometimes too. And go outside to smoke. Home from home.
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by ...
Re: Into the Pubs
Lucky you, you don't have to inhale other peoples' smoke. Down here we'll have to wait till July 1st for that. The rest of what you said is spot on, though.
There was a time when I worked on building site and lived in bedsits in London. In quite a lot of these pubs up the Harrow Road you could buy a bloody good evening dinner very cheaply. Mince and spuds and peas and so on. Some lads didn't even bother getting changed out of their building site clothes. I was posh because I'd go home for a shower first and get changed into "civvies", then go drinking. The Guinness was just diesel as you'd burn it off the next day, digging or shuttering or whatever.
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Into the Pubs
Changing into "civvies" doesn't go with your working class hero image does it, Danny?
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Into the Pubs
"working class hero image"
you said it not me
# Posted on April 16th 2007 by Rudall the time
"The Public Dance Halls Act 1935"
http://www.setdance.com/pdha/pdha.html
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Into the Pubs
That is a very interesting link ceolachan. A sad story. You'd expect this kind of lunacy before 1921, but for the Irish to inflict this on themselves is ... well just sad.
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by Strummer007
Re: Into the Pubs
It wasn't the 'Irish', it was DeValera, who was by all accounts full of himself. But there is more context to it all than merely the 'Act'. He was worried about the IRA, who weren't exactly full of joy about the 'new government'...
I am only speaking in pieces here as my knowledge is such, but I keep an open mind and am always eager to learn more, to understand. I must admit biases are sometimes hard to soften and I have no love for that particular asshole of history... He was a hypocrit and more damage was done to the language and the tradition after they got in power than the English had done, or at least as much... He couldn't see the truth before him and so manufactured his own fantasies as to what it was all about. But we are all to some degree guilty of such delusions, one way or the t'other... DeValera though had 'power' and 'attitude' and was part of the early establishment of a corrupt and deluded government in dear Eire.
That asside, there is much for Eire to be proud of, and as a leader on some fronts in Europe and the world. I have faith in people, that we at least strive for a fairer and kinder world, if not always achieving that wish... So much damage has been done with 'best intentions', a word, the writing on a piece of paper...
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by ceolachan
Not 'the people' ~ despite the assumption that polititicians 'represent' 'us', 'the people' ~ it is more often not the truth... Those who wield power in our names are often the pupets of others, those with vested interest, or worse, they are tyrants...
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by ceolachan
Though sometimes we make them like Frankenstein, only in committees and with the power of vote and collective greed and self-interest...
Damn, I must be in one of those moods (socialist that I am) ~
# Posted on April 18th 2007 by ceolachan