I was at a session the other night and a question was raised...does anyone ever play "The Irish Washerwoman" and/or "The Rakes of Mallow" at a session? Most of the response was that they are pretty good pieces of music, but have been so overplayed that they are very stale. They also are stereotypical settings in Hollywood, and thus have lost their meaningfulness in ITM. Does anyone, or any session you have been to, play either of these? Lowhistle
We played both of these tunes last night at our local contra dance. Despite their reputations as chestnuts, they have great
energy for the dancers, are known by players of many levels of ability, and have the added bonus of being recognizable by non specialist ears. I am as big a tunemonger as anybody and love to learn and play new and wonderful obscure tunes, but I feel there is definitely a place for these and other "fossils". To my mind playing with others is about inclusion.Playing these tunes opens up the session to those with less extensive repertoires.
These tunes are also *so* familiar that good musicians can play them on the fly, which is how our local session happens to do Rakes of Mallow or Irish Washerwoman once in a blue moon. Someone starts either of them up, and the rest of us join in even though we've never actually learned the tunes. But their melodies are instantly in our heads, and not hard to play, so out they come.
A few players will roll their eyes at such tunes, so observant newcomers usually don't start them up more than once.
It's not that i'm contra your kind of dances, but...
These are probably ok for contra dances, but i don't think many Irish music sessions play the Washerwoman regularly. It's got too much of a bad reputation; you'd think cute little leprechaums would start popping out of the shadows.
And here we go again about contra dances, etc. I don't know much about contra dances. I'm sure it's a lot of fun, but i'm an Irish session player.
What I find fun to do with these overdone tunes, and others like them is to start em out straight then morph into demented minor key versions, still recognizable but weird. Doesn't work at a session, but catches attention at dances and performances.
I prefer "The Irish Waterman" - it's a much more interesting tune. And anyone who thinks "The Rakes Of Mallow" is boring, well you just obviously haven't met a tune called "Shepherd's Hey" yet. And no it's okay I'm not going to post it
The Irish Washerwoman is a nippy little number - and there's lots of potential for messing around with it.
The Kesh/Kincora Jig is the excruciatingly boring one - all 12 notes of it.
There are some tunes which are overplayed because they're catchy (eg washerwoman - which, for some reason, known only to Hollywood, sounds quintessentially Irish - thank God they didn't get their hands Eddie Kelly's Reel, or the Contradiction!), and others (eg kesh) are just simple, mundane common currency. I have actually fallen asleep whilst playing the Kesh, and kept playing, till someone woke me up from the nightmare.
In fact, I have taught it to my Psychiatrist to play to me, on the triangle, usually on a daily basis, after I've smashed up all the padding in my cell, as it's the only thing that gets me to sleep these days.....
Also, I heard (but keep it really quiet... shh....) through the Aiytee Emm Grapevine that George Blair and Tony Bush are about to order the sending to the Gulf, of Missiles containing CD's of The Kesh played over and over and over to stupify The Enemy. But don't tell anybody...
I don't like the Kesh very much (except, of course, when the Bothy band did it in their first album, that was awesome). It does get played a lot here in the US, though, but i never heard the Washerwoman or Irish Waterman played in a session.
Both these were played at our session last night started by a demented banjo player. They are not quite so overplayed at this session as it is mainly scottish.
Now now Dow, Shepherds Hay isn't boring it's hypnotic. We play it in our Ceilidh Band backed by increasingly Minor chord sequences, and do the penultimate time singing the words
I can sing
I can play
I can dance the Shepherds hey
x4
Try Rakes of Mallow with a flattened seventh (as played on the GHB) works a treat.
I
Yes, they are out-played but I find both tunes useful, the first to open a slow set for the learners to play, the second to end a set of jigs if too many off-beat players have joined in. If the Washerwoman is played fast enough, it sorts the sheep out from the goats as the sheep can't play it fast.
The goats, being "devilish", have no problems.
I regularly have fun in the B part of Rakes of Mallow - try playing it a minim behind everyone else - makes a nice second part.
This also works in the C part of Dingle Regatta.
My favorite old fiddle guy who runs the session I attend off and on plays both R.of Mallow and the Waherwoman frequently. I guess the tune fashion police haven't caught up with him yet. Or he doesn't care.
Thanks for all the feedback. I do like both tunes, but have been reluctant to play in any session I have been to. I also have never heard them played either at a session, so I had to ask. Thanks again. Lowhistle
Lowhistle, if you want to play them, when someone asks you to start a set of tunes, then just try saying what about Rakes of Mallow? and watch to see what the reaction is from the leaders/most experienced players of the session. You'll know soon enough if they'll be open to it.
Also, if you can find yourself a good setting of Washerwoman, you can also start off by saying that you've found a nice setting of Washerwoman that has really made you rethink the poor overworked tune, and THEN play it to see if they agree. I really like Gerdie Commane's setting, you can hear it on the Two Gentlemen of Clare CD.
I agree with dow - I much prefer the Irish waterman. But if you were to play the tunes in the session I go to you'd probably get away with it, tho that would hopefully be on the day that I wasnt there
There are always new twists to put on overplayed tunes to freshen them up a bit - try both tunes in a minor key or slow Mallow down and play as a hornpipe.
I don't believe that switching keys to minor are going to inspire folks at an advanced session to play along. Perhaps the minor key would make the tune interesting for an audience but I'm betting that most of the advanced sessioneers are going to tolerate it one time and then move on. You don't have to please sessioneers at your own performance. If the music works - do it for the audience. Consider the sessioneers a different audience altogether.
Quite right Mark. There are times when one needs to think about ones own musical progression vis a vis getting bored knocking out a pile of old standards. Sessions set their own balance between boring stuff to get everyone in, and more interesting arcane numbers.
If a player feels that the session is passing them by, by being either too easy or too difficult, then they're at the wrong session. That's probably easy for me to say, living in London where there's plenty of choice.
Maybe if there's opportunity to mix the standard so everyone gets a couple of tunes in...but, as I said, it's all about the right balance.
Too Familiar?
Too Familiar?
I was at a session the other night and a question was raised...does anyone ever play "The Irish Washerwoman" and/or "The Rakes of Mallow" at a session? Most of the response was that they are pretty good pieces of music, but have been so overplayed that they are very stale. They also are stereotypical settings in Hollywood, and thus have lost their meaningfulness in ITM. Does anyone, or any session you have been to, play either of these? Lowhistle
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by LoWhistle
Re: Too Familiar?
We played both of these tunes last night at our local contra dance. Despite their reputations as chestnuts, they have great
energy for the dancers, are known by players of many levels of ability, and have the added bonus of being recognizable by non specialist ears. I am as big a tunemonger as anybody and love to learn and play new and wonderful obscure tunes, but I feel there is definitely a place for these and other "fossils". To my mind playing with others is about inclusion.Playing these tunes opens up the session to those with less extensive repertoires.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by IanBCelt
Re: Too Familiar?
These tunes are also *so* familiar that good musicians can play them on the fly, which is how our local session happens to do Rakes of Mallow or Irish Washerwoman once in a blue moon. Someone starts either of them up, and the rest of us join in even though we've never actually learned the tunes. But their melodies are instantly in our heads, and not hard to play, so out they come.
A few players will roll their eyes at such tunes, so observant newcomers usually don't start them up more than once.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Will Harmon
It's not that i'm contra your kind of dances, but...
These are probably ok for contra dances, but i don't think many Irish music sessions play the Washerwoman regularly. It's got too much of a bad reputation; you'd think cute little leprechaums would start popping out of the shadows.
And here we go again about contra dances, etc. I don't know much about contra dances. I'm sure it's a lot of fun, but i'm an Irish session player.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by glauber
Re: Too Familiar?
What I find fun to do with these overdone tunes, and others like them is to start em out straight then morph into demented minor key versions, still recognizable but weird. Doesn't work at a session, but catches attention at dances and performances.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by ScottC
Re: Too Familiar?
I prefer "The Irish Waterman" - it's a much more interesting tune. And anyone who thinks "The Rakes Of Mallow" is boring, well you just obviously haven't met a tune called "Shepherd's Hey" yet. And no it's okay I'm not going to post it
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Too Familiar?
The Irish Washerwoman is a nippy little number - and there's lots of potential for messing around with it.
The Kesh/Kincora Jig is the excruciatingly boring one - all 12 notes of it.
There are some tunes which are overplayed because they're catchy (eg washerwoman - which, for some reason, known only to Hollywood, sounds quintessentially Irish - thank God they didn't get their hands Eddie Kelly's Reel, or the Contradiction!), and others (eg kesh) are just simple, mundane common currency. I have actually fallen asleep whilst playing the Kesh, and kept playing, till someone woke me up from the nightmare.
In fact, I have taught it to my Psychiatrist to play to me, on the triangle, usually on a daily basis, after I've smashed up all the padding in my cell, as it's the only thing that gets me to sleep these days.....
Also, I heard (but keep it really quiet... shh....) through the Aiytee Emm Grapevine that George Blair and Tony Bush are about to order the sending to the Gulf, of Missiles containing CD's of The Kesh played over and over and over to stupify The Enemy. But don't tell anybody...
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Rudall the time
Kesh
I don't like the Kesh very much (except, of course, when the Bothy band did it in their first album, that was awesome). It does get played a lot here in the US, though, but i never heard the Washerwoman or Irish Waterman played in a session.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by glauber
Re: Too Familiar?
Both these were played at our session last night started by a demented banjo player. They are not quite so overplayed at this session as it is mainly scottish.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Davetnova
Re: Too Familiar?
Now now Dow, Shepherds Hay isn't boring it's hypnotic. We play it in our Ceilidh Band backed by increasingly Minor chord sequences, and do the penultimate time singing the words
I can sing
I can play
I can dance the Shepherds hey
x4
Try Rakes of Mallow with a flattened seventh (as played on the GHB) works a treat.
I
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: Too Familiar?
Yes, they are out-played but I find both tunes useful, the first to open a slow set for the learners to play, the second to end a set of jigs if too many off-beat players have joined in. If the Washerwoman is played fast enough, it sorts the sheep out from the goats as the sheep can't play it fast.
The goats, being "devilish", have no problems.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by geoffwright
Rakes of Mallow
I regularly have fun in the B part of Rakes of Mallow - try playing it a minim behind everyone else - makes a nice second part.
This also works in the C part of Dingle Regatta.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: Too Familiar?
Hi Geoff.
That sounds interesting I'll give it a go.
All the best PP
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: Too Familiar?
My favorite old fiddle guy who runs the session I attend off and on plays both R.of Mallow and the Waherwoman frequently. I guess the tune fashion police haven't caught up with him yet. Or he doesn't care.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Andee
Re: Too Familiar?
Thanks for all the feedback. I do like both tunes, but have been reluctant to play in any session I have been to. I also have never heard them played either at a session, so I had to ask. Thanks again. Lowhistle
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by LoWhistle
Re: Too Familiar?
Lowhistle, if you want to play them, when someone asks you to start a set of tunes, then just try saying what about Rakes of Mallow? and watch to see what the reaction is from the leaders/most experienced players of the session. You'll know soon enough if they'll be open to it.
Also, if you can find yourself a good setting of Washerwoman, you can also start off by saying that you've found a nice setting of Washerwoman that has really made you rethink the poor overworked tune, and THEN play it to see if they agree. I really like Gerdie Commane's setting, you can hear it on the Two Gentlemen of Clare CD.
Zina
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Too Familiar?
I agree with dow - I much prefer the Irish waterman. But if you were to play the tunes in the session I go to you'd probably get away with it, tho that would hopefully be on the day that I wasnt there
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by bb
Re: Too Familiar?
There are always new twists to put on overplayed tunes to freshen them up a bit - try both tunes in a minor key or slow Mallow down and play as a hornpipe.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: Too Familiar?
I don't believe that switching keys to minor are going to inspire folks at an advanced session to play along. Perhaps the minor key would make the tune interesting for an audience but I'm betting that most of the advanced sessioneers are going to tolerate it one time and then move on. You don't have to please sessioneers at your own performance. If the music works - do it for the audience. Consider the sessioneers a different audience altogether.
Mark
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Mark Cordova
Re: Too Familiar?
Quite right Mark. There are times when one needs to think about ones own musical progression vis a vis getting bored knocking out a pile of old standards. Sessions set their own balance between boring stuff to get everyone in, and more interesting arcane numbers.
If a player feels that the session is passing them by, by being either too easy or too difficult, then they're at the wrong session. That's probably easy for me to say, living in London where there's plenty of choice.
Maybe if there's opportunity to mix the standard so everyone gets a couple of tunes in...but, as I said, it's all about the right balance.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Rudall the time