One cannot help but notice the proliferation of Irish music sites . . . discussions, archives, streaming radio . . . I love Irish music & wish them all success. Has anyone ever considered going the route of Larry Sanger? http://www.citizendium.org/about.html
Or is there not an authorized version of Irish Session Music?
nicholas the CCE is to ITM what water is to fire.
Like art by committee, they love it so much they have to own it, and anybody who they THINK knows more than they imagine they do.
I don't speak for Dr. Sanger. But knowing Larry as I do, and his deep respect for the tradition, I suspect there are few things he might approve of less than an "authorized version of Irish session music", whatever that might be.
If you're suggesting instead (I hope) that accurate, scholarly information *about* Irish music traditions is a good thing, online or otherwise, well sure. Then Citizendium could be one source among many, and I'm sure they'd welcome submissions from qualified contributors.
Otherwise the question as it stands is ethnomusicologically naive. There have been many attempts over the years by official institutions to codify, authorize, usurp and dictate folk traditions, and the history is not always a pretty one. Sometimes useless at best and detrimental at worst, and always complicated. Folk traditions have a way of not behaving the way self-appointed authorities want them to. Imagine that.
I just got back on line. I hope you checked out the link About Citizendium. It says something about "authoritative" information. Ironically I am mainly concerned about the accuracy of postings. Sorry about using 'authorised' (sic).
I take heart in the warning about the danger of art by committee.
My main concern is sometimes I have to wade through the bullsh*t. I do not want to create more rules for ITM. The discussion I am interested in is about the 'online medium'. Try this example. Sometimes an Abc tune is posted & the comments list it as public domain. A following comment will then offer up the name of a composer. This is the way information becomes useful.
Seeing as ITM is an oral tradition, I think that wading through bullsh*t is a part of that tradition. Also, seeing as you're on a discussion board that lets anyone who has an account with The Session post, you are automatically taking the chance of receiving false info. I'm not saying that the people who post don't know what they're talking about, mind you. I'm just saying that you shouldn't get angry if you're given wrong info.
Ah, but it was "Tonya" who complained that:
> During our gigs the accordian player
> will add tunes which are not on the set list.
> Sometimes he plays a different version of
> music from the one he hands out.
Something of a pattern here?
I just noticed my name taken in vain here, and I had to reply.
Yep, I have thought of how to improve on the likes of The Session by making it more like Wikipedia and more like the Citizendium, both.
Of course, there's no such thing as an authorized version of an Irish tune, and anyone who claims to be an expert in identifying such thereby proves himself not to be expert about Irish traditional music.
That said, in my time I have carefully transcribed many "quality settings" of tunes, and so have many others, and there is no reason some editors, who knew more than the average bear about Irish music, couldn't get together and select the best several of these, and drop the substandard transcriptions (i.e., transcriptions of people not worth transcribing, or poor jobs of transcription).
There are other things that could be usefully done collaboratively or aggregatively. For example, people could contribute their performances of tunes, and these could be ranked by the community, with special weight being given to the ratings of the aforementioned editors. (Surely a humbling experience...I would recommend that the performancers not be identified by name unless they want to be.)
There are a lot of resources out there that are being compiled by very hard-working people, and it just baffles me why they aren't (1) working together and (2) inviting a lot of other people to help them more directly. I am referring particularly to the Fiddler's Companion and to Alan Ng's tuneography or whatever it's called, which is very cool. Also, JC's tunefinder. And why not The Session, too? The value of these resources increases with their size.
But I would recommend that this sort of merging be done, as I say, under the direction of expert editors, within the framework of sane policies that don't create bottlenecks or replicate slow old (failed?) academic review processes.
The Future ITM
The Future ITM
One cannot help but notice the proliferation of Irish music sites . . . discussions, archives, streaming radio . . . I love Irish music & wish them all success. Has anyone ever considered going the route of Larry Sanger? http://www.citizendium.org/about.html
Or is there not an authorized version of Irish Session Music?
# Posted on April 8th 2007 by Tonya
Re: The Future ITM
"authorized version of Irish Session Music"? Huh?
# Posted on April 8th 2007 by Splendid Isolation
Re: The Future ITM
Also "...wish them all success". Who? The players of Irish music?
# Posted on April 8th 2007 by Björn
Re: The Future ITM
Nothing could kill the music faster than "an authorized version of Irish Session Music." I smell Spam cooking.
# Posted on April 8th 2007 by Marklar
Re: The Future ITM
If there is an archive of "authorised" Irish tunes and settings, I imagine Comhaltas have got it.
# Posted on April 8th 2007 by nicholas
Re: The Future ITM
Would there be a future to ITM if there were authorised versions?
# Posted on April 9th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: The Future ITM
nicholas the CCE is to ITM what water is to fire.
Like art by committee, they love it so much they have to own it, and anybody who they THINK knows more than they imagine they do.
# Posted on April 9th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: The Future ITM
I don't speak for Dr. Sanger. But knowing Larry as I do, and his deep respect for the tradition, I suspect there are few things he might approve of less than an "authorized version of Irish session music", whatever that might be.
If you're suggesting instead (I hope) that accurate, scholarly information *about* Irish music traditions is a good thing, online or otherwise, well sure. Then Citizendium could be one source among many, and I'm sure they'd welcome submissions from qualified contributors.
Otherwise the question as it stands is ethnomusicologically naive. There have been many attempts over the years by official institutions to codify, authorize, usurp and dictate folk traditions, and the history is not always a pretty one. Sometimes useless at best and detrimental at worst, and always complicated. Folk traditions have a way of not behaving the way self-appointed authorities want them to. Imagine that.
# Posted on April 9th 2007 by MTGuru
Re: The Future ITM
I just got back on line. I hope you checked out the link About Citizendium. It says something about "authoritative" information. Ironically I am mainly concerned about the accuracy of postings. Sorry about using 'authorised' (sic).
I take heart in the warning about the danger of art by committee.
My main concern is sometimes I have to wade through the bullsh*t. I do not want to create more rules for ITM. The discussion I am interested in is about the 'online medium'. Try this example. Sometimes an Abc tune is posted & the comments list it as public domain. A following comment will then offer up the name of a composer. This is the way information becomes useful.
# Posted on April 9th 2007 by Tonya
Re: The Future ITM
Seeing as ITM is an oral tradition, I think that wading through bullsh*t is a part of that tradition. Also, seeing as you're on a discussion board that lets anyone who has an account with The Session post, you are automatically taking the chance of receiving false info. I'm not saying that the people who post don't know what they're talking about, mind you. I'm just saying that you shouldn't get angry if you're given wrong info.
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: The Future ITM
Ah, but it was "Tonya" who complained that:
> During our gigs the accordian player
> will add tunes which are not on the set list.
> Sometimes he plays a different version of
> music from the one he hands out.
Something of a pattern here?
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: The Future ITM
Ah ha! Caught red handed!
# Posted on April 10th 2007 by Splendid Isolation
Re: The Future ITM
I just noticed my name taken in vain here, and I had to reply.
Yep, I have thought of how to improve on the likes of The Session by making it more like Wikipedia and more like the Citizendium, both.
Of course, there's no such thing as an authorized version of an Irish tune, and anyone who claims to be an expert in identifying such thereby proves himself not to be expert about Irish traditional music.
That said, in my time I have carefully transcribed many "quality settings" of tunes, and so have many others, and there is no reason some editors, who knew more than the average bear about Irish music, couldn't get together and select the best several of these, and drop the substandard transcriptions (i.e., transcriptions of people not worth transcribing, or poor jobs of transcription).
There are other things that could be usefully done collaboratively or aggregatively. For example, people could contribute their performances of tunes, and these could be ranked by the community, with special weight being given to the ratings of the aforementioned editors. (Surely a humbling experience...I would recommend that the performancers not be identified by name unless they want to be.)
There are a lot of resources out there that are being compiled by very hard-working people, and it just baffles me why they aren't (1) working together and (2) inviting a lot of other people to help them more directly. I am referring particularly to the Fiddler's Companion and to Alan Ng's tuneography or whatever it's called, which is very cool. Also, JC's tunefinder. And why not The Session, too? The value of these resources increases with their size.
But I would recommend that this sort of merging be done, as I say, under the direction of expert editors, within the framework of sane policies that don't create bottlenecks or replicate slow old (failed?) academic review processes.
# Posted on August 13th 2007 by lsanger