Hi,
has anyone acquired madfortrad tutorials and what do you think of them? are they worth getting ( I personally have second thoughts because of the price)
Thanx for your help,
H.
I have copies of both the flute tutorial (with Seamus Egan) and the whistle tutorial (with Brian Finnegan). I think that the tutorials themselves are fairly well done, and it was fun to be able to see them both demonstrate tunes--and nice to be able to play along with the audio track playing in the background with the tune notation on the screen. That said, I really never ended up using them very much. They seem to be pitched mostly towards beginners, so if you have much experience at all, they aren't overwhelmingly useful.
Hi there!
Where I live is some musical stuff is somewhat hard (if not impossible to find).
When I bought my MFT flute tutorial I didn't expect a miracle from it (don't believe in miracles a lot lately). I think it would have come more in handy when I started.
The CD is OK, very well done, professional look and plenty of contents. Apart form a long interview with Seamus Egan with interesting points of view regarding music and flute playing. You can learn about ornamentation, style, breathing an such things. You can also learn a good bunch of commonly played at sessions tunes. I still think that the price might be a bit high, but I forget that when I watch Egan's performance at the end of the CD.
Not very helpful I'm afraid, just mixed feelings.
Rafa
Ok Rafa & aconnel...would you consider downloading the free tutorial from scoiltrad, looking it over and telling us how it compares to your madfortrad tutorial?
I'm a bit surprised to hear people complain about the price of the MFT tutorials....IMHO, $40-$45 USD is not expensive for the amount of instruction on those cds. At least not when the going rate for a face to face lesson with a teacher is at least $20 for 30 to 45 minutes. A lot of work goes into preparing lesson material--that alone justifies the cost, in my mind. But I'm biased, because I've taught music. It can be discouraging when someone acts desperate to learn, but balks at paying much for the hard-won knowledge and insights of a good musician and teacher.
A friend of mine has the MFT banjo tutorial--he's very happy with it because it helps so much to see what's happening while you're listening. The only downside was the videos came through on Realplayer, so the picture size wasn't full-screen. Otherwise, I learned a fair amount just from skimming through a couple of the videos. So I'm ordering the flute tutorial--it's well worth the money, just for Seamus demonstrating the tunes, let along talking about technique.
The madfortrad and Scoiltrad lessons have different applications. Madfortrad has no live interaction but I hear there's a wider, more general, breadth of information. Scoiltrad's lessons are focused on a specific tune (and usually two to three specific techniques) and you have personal interaction with the tutor. They are also arranged by level. So the two tutorials will help with different things and suit just about anybody. You're not really comparing apples and apples there. Both are excellent and I hear that people are very pleased with both.
I didn't say the price was unfair or not a good value given what is offered...I just don't have $45 to rush out and spend. That's why I was pricing around.
Scoiltrad's costs much less, but I suspect it's because the lessons are offered in pieces: one tune at a certain level of playing per lesson? I'm wondering if you'd spend as much on individual Scoiltrads to get to the same instruction level as is offered on the one madfortrad CD.
What is taught madfortrad vs. Scoiltrad? Understandably, the approach is different, with Scoiltrad letting you send in recordings of yourself to the teacher.
So, could you tell us how much instruction is on the madfortrad CD lesson. How in debt is it...how much is aimed at someone who's just picking up the instrument for the first time, versus someone who already plays and reads music, etc.?
I'm wondering which is a better fit for a real beginner or for someone who already knows how to play the instrument and read music, etc. but is learning the irish style of playing.
I have the Anthony Warde "How to Play Irish Mandolin" video. I think it is worth the price. He walks you through how to play a reel ("Mountain Road") and a jig ("Wexford Jig"). He'll play a tune through a few times on just the mandolin, then play it with a "band" including an accordian, guitar and penny whistle. In addition, he plays several other tunes to demonstrate various techniques or keys. Lots of suggestions on how to do various techniques. All in all, I would recommend it.
RE: Scoiltrad lessons...think of them as private lessons where the teacher gives you a tape of the tune to learn, and then you get together to go over how you've done. I've really liked my Scoiltrad lessons. Kevin's a very funny man and a wonderful teacher and fiddler, of course, and it's incredible how much he pegged of my playing needs off the mpg's I sent him, right down to little niggling bowing details. Did you take a look at the free lesson download at Scoiltrad to see if you like the format? Perhaps Glauber can give you the lowdown on what it's like to take lessons from Conal, as that's who your main tutor would be.
Thanks Katie, but all of the mandolin videos I have found online (except for Chris Thile's) are in VHS format. I would love to locate DVD and/or CD-ROM based Irish/Celtic tutorials for their ease of use in looping sections, pausing, rewinding, skipping back, etc. Any suggestions?
I downloaded the Scoiltrad demos for flute N whistle. They look great, and I'd pretty much settled on getting one. Then this discussion on madtrad...and I wondered about the madtrad ones since there's no demo or sample to give a good idea of what they offer.
Now, I've gotten some emails from Justin Murphy. I'll have to drive to the French Quarter, but he's teaching private lessons in a music room at O'Flaherty's! Can you hear me from where you are? "GOODY, GOODY, GOODY, GOODY!!!"
That said...I still think I could benefit from exposure to other players' styles and such. So I'm still looking at Stoiltrad & madtrad.
of course relatively speaking the tutorials are not expensive. I'm sure there's alot tolearn from them. But 44 euros relative to my wallet is definitly something.
in addition It's truly a pity indeed ythat there's no mandolin tutorial. wouldn't it be cooll if someone like Declan Corey released one of them;
Sorry...didn't find DVD, but quite a few have CDs with them. Here are some...some prob appear in the list I posted before.
Fiddle Tunes & Irish Music for Mandolin Book/CD set by Gelo--"A fun-to-play collection of 62 favorite fiddle and Irish tunes arranged in notation and tablature for mandolin solo. Ideal music for intermediate level technical study in sight reading. The CD is in split-track format, thus allowing the mandolin student to play along with the mandolin solo, lively guitar accompaniment, or both. Due to time constraints, the CD contains only 18 songs from the book. "
5 Star Rating--A Complete Guide to Learning the Irish Mandolin (CD Edition) by Padraig Carroll: "The mandolin is an integral part of the Irish music scene. This book and CD package is a comprehensive introduction to this exciting instrument. Learn the basics of playing, music reading and a variety of jigs, reels, polkas and more."
5 Star rating: Learn to Play Irish Fiddle Tunes For Mandolin CD (Intermediate Level) by Mark Bickford http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y1315228Y3901180/104-1320005-5227138
I think the madfortrad flute tutorial is good value for money. Seamus plays the tunes without ornamentation and then ornamented intoducing different techniques as he goes. It's all done at a relatively easypace and of course its easy to "loop" the tunes until they sink in. It would probably be better for beginner to intermediate rather than intermediate to advanced. I think it helped take me to a higher level although i've nothing to compare it with apart from the scoiltrad demo flute lesson.
I've had the MadforTrad concertina tutor for several months (I'm supposed to post a review on www.concertina.net and can't get the last details done, mea culpa). It is a solid and well-thought out approach, and not narrow either. On C/G concertina there are many possible fingerings (key of D, for example). Most teachers start you one way, but Niall Valelly on this CD-ROM uses more than one system without overloading you, or even telling you he is doing it. I think it would be a solid way to start Irish-style concertina. The CD is pretty well organized and set up; I would only change a few details.
I have both the Simon Mayer CD/Book and Padraig Carroll CD/Book, both of which I have found to be very useful. Padraig's book is more fundamental than Simon's. Padraig's book finishes with some exercises on ornamation and Simon's basically starts with ornamation, with some brief commentary on fundamentals. Simon has an companion VHS, which is very good. I have studied from both and find myself often coming back to each of them for different reasons.
Mr. Glauber nailed the basic difference between zouks and mandos. If a zouk is tuned in GDAE, as a mando, then the similarities are very close. If the zouk is tuned in GDAD or ADAD, then there's a longer learning process involved. Donal Lunny (Planxty and Bothy Band), Andy Irvine (Planxty), Alec Finn (De Dannan) and Kevin Macleod (Springwell album) are the mando/zouk gurus of ITM. These experts focus on one or two tunings, but play the instrument with a tuning that provides their favorite interpretation of a tune. Bloody geniuses!
Then there's the issue of learning to fret with fat fingers on a mando, or chord on a zouk with small hands!
I have found that, in general (yes, there are exceptions!), mandolins play melody (I use a hard pick so I can be heard), and zouks provide rhythm.
I have the Madfortrad concertina tutorial by Nial Vallely.
I think it is well done, the beginner section introduces one to the instrument and music. The advanced section includes lots of advanced techniques. I also don't like the fact that the videos show in real player but they are helpful and it is very nice to see the tunes and ornamentations played.
I don't use it extensively, but am glad I have it for occasional reference.
I've also got the Concertina tutorial, though my videos play in Windows media player. It appears that any files with the extension MPG are being picked up by your computer's default video viewer which must be Real Player.
To change this go into My Computer, select View -> Folder Options and the File Types tab.
Concerning the Madfortrad tutorials - I think they're as close as you can get to having a professional tutor sitting next to you.
The presentation is excellent and clearly a lot of effort has gone into making them, Considering that they will only sell to a (relatively) small market, the price is excellent value.
For other concertina players out there, Niall Vallely also plays all the tunes on the Gerry McKee bouzouki tutorial - I think these are a better selection as they generally are more upbeat - Bird in the Bush in the performance section sounds fantastic.
Katiebythegate, I think there is another important answer to your question. The main difference between a mandolin tutorial and a bouzouki tutorial is that while the former will concentrate on melody playing, the latter will focus largely or solely on accompaniment.
The physical differences between the instruments is not always clear cut (although the term 'mandolin' is generally reserved for smaller instruments, round-backed or flat-backed, tuned to the same pitch as the fiddle) - terms such as bouzouki, Irish bouzouki, short-scale bouzouki, octave mandolin, mandola, long-necked mandolin, cittern and 'Blarge' represent a continuous spectrum of plucked, double-coursed (i.e. strings in pairs) instruments, rather than definitive instruments. Irish 'bouzouki' players who use the true Greek bouzouki, which Glauber describes, are relatively few.
I have been a straight melody player for years and the MFT bouzouki tutorial helped me considerably in understanding the process behind all the seemingly elaborate backup stuff I hear on so many recordings. The format is excellent and the MFT folks are very helpful. I initially had trouble getting the CD-ROM to play, but they helped me through the setup (mine did not play when with Quicktime. When I switched over to Windows Media Player it worked like a charm). Highly recommended.
I would say only 2 from 8 of the 'Advanced' Topics listed on the box were actually covered on the CD (Bouzouki Tutor). I think the Guitar tutor is far better (i.e closer to what is advertised!).
I have the anglo MFT - apart from the fact it was filmed outside without enough lighting - sometimes you cannot see what his fingers are doing, I found it excellent value.
My son got the banjo MFT which he thinks is good - I also worked through the banjo one, on concertina so there is always scope for swapping instruments.
Maybe if more time was spent playing music and less time on the internet, people would'nt be complaining so much about their tutorials, In fairness tutorials can only guide us down the right path we must do the work ourselves, if one learns a few tunes the pleasure got , is well worth €40. Keep up the good work MFT.
??? I just re-read this entire thread trying to figure out where you got the idea anyone was complaining about their tutorials, MFT. Still can't figure it out.
Yikes, Northcregg...some might take offense at that statement if it weren't a bit...misguided?
If what you are saying is that learning a few tunes with the tutorials is worth the money you spend...that's some of what we're trying to find out. Thanks for that input. I gather your experience is with MFT and that you like it very much. Could you be more specific about which tutorial you used and what you liked about it?
Who's complaining? I'm thrilled to discover that these tutorials exist. In case you didn't catch it, this was a thread to find out more about the MFT tutorials and what they are all about. I'm glad this thread was begun because I was looking into tutorials when I saw it, and I was only aware of the Scoiltrads.
Yes, I agree. Tutorials are like exercise videos, Northcregg... sitting on the couch watching the video (or on the net reading about it) isn't getting the exercises done. However, the time spent researching is far from wasted if you put what you learn from it to work. I understood that as what you meant?
As for spending less time on the net and more playing music...the net has been how I tracked down everything I've needed for ITM, and I couldn't have done it any other way given the lack of similar information & resources in places I've lived. Now I CAN play (and improve), thanks to the time that I've put in researching on the net. I bow before the throne of Jeremy and say sincerely, "Thanks for being here."
Zina, I re-read as well...and noticed a Freudian slip I made..."in debt" rather than "in depth". lol
My only complaint is financial...who wouldn't love having more to spend on CD's, another instrument, a week at an ITM music camp, etc.--and yes, tutorials. The comments on cost aren't a reflection on whether the price is justified...only a reflection on my ability to acquire what I want or need--which leads to comparisons between tutorials to seek out the most content for my buckaroos.
I asked about the tutorials because I don't have many opportunities where I live to experience ITM being played live. Since the posts, however, I've found a teacher...through a grrrrrrrrrrreat deal of searching on the net, I might add. As I've said before, the tutorials would still seem to be helpful to someone like me, teacher or no, because it's always beneficial to study the different styles and techniques of various players.
Stacey, the lads at MadforTrad would throttle me for suggesting this, but you could probably sell the tutorial after you got everything out of it you could, recouping some of your cash. Though I'm guessing it will be the kind of thing you want to hang onto and return to for fresh insights. Another option is to find someone else who plays the same instrument, split the cost, and then share the disk back and forth.
Quote: "Maybe if more time was spent playing music and less time on the internet, people would'nt be complaining so much about their tutorials..."
No offense was taken here, but were it not for spending time on the internet, I wouldn't have even known that MFT or their tutorials exist. Perhaps like many other in this on-line community, my time on the internet only distracts me away from my job, and not from more important things like practicing.
Will! You BAD boy...BAD...! NO biscuit! Go lie down! *grin* Personally, I regularly drop $40 (er, or a lot more) on a dinner easily, so I can't go complaining when I have no cash for a lesson or CD, but I have a personal aversion to stiffing somebody on a tutorial CD -- I feel the same way about books. Same goes for people who buy Scoiltrad lessons and pass 'em around the Net. Shame shame shame -- shouldn't go doing your fellow players out of hard-earned cash, right? Just remember, Karma bites back. ;)
Now, having said that, one of our local sessions uses their tips to purchase CDs and videos, both instructional and not, and they now have a tidy little lending library for all of their session members. How cool is that? I sort of see that as serving the same function of a public library. They also use their funds to help subsidize workshops for session members when players come into town.
Well, i don't know anything about MadForTrad, but the best part of the Scoiltrad lesson is when, after waiting nervously for a month or so , you finally get the homework review from the teacher. That's what's so good about it (at least Scoiltrad), and you wouldn't get it if you just bought the lesson from Will on eBay.
Food glorious food, and, oh yeah, the subject is tutorials...
So I have expensive taste. Sue me. *snort* One of my favorite meatloaf dinners is at Bloom, which serves "New American Cuisine" (whatever the heck that is), and it costs something like USD$9.00. It sounds totally off, I mean, c'mon, it's meatloaf, right?, but you haven't tried this meatloaf, which bears no resemblance at all to the hockey pucks my mom popped out of the oven.
And if you like burgers, you have to come back here and we'll go to the Cherry Cricket in Cherry Creek, which is a old-style neighborhood bar that watched the neighborhood it is in turn into the chi-chi part of town. Best burgers in the city. $6.00 a pop. (And then of course you want cheese, and maybe a side of white chili, and well, duh, beer.)
Anyway, yes, the advantage of Scoiltrad is that you get personal attention and a personalized critique with advice and suggestions from some of the best. Mad for Trad doesn't have that personal interaction, but does cover a wider breadth of information in general. So you have to pick which one works best for you at this point in your playing career!
Mind you, *I* would never resell my copy of a tutorial...just searching for options for Stacey. But now look what you've done--a lifetime of paper training and I've piddled out of fear on the carpet
I like the idea of the lending library bought with money from the tip jar. Something to institute here at home, methinks.
I'm banging my head on the key board trying to erase the mental image of Zina the Dominatrix & Will piddling...BAD mental image...bad bad Baaaaaad...why, oh, why did I ever come in here tonight???
*grin* Ah, Stacey, you couldn't even come close! Someday, when I'm old and won't feel nearly so embarassed about it, I'll send you a pic of me in one of my PVC Goth Chick outfits...(Goth Spice, that was me...)
And somewhere I have a photo of my in my Snoopy-as-WWI-flying-ace Halloween costume than won me first prize in the neighborhood contest. We painted a cardboard box to look like Snoopy's doghouse, complete with bullet holes from the Red Baron, and I wore an aviator's leather cap and goggles, and a white scarf. The coup de grace was the Clorox bleach bottle we converted into the beagle's nose.
Well, it was *empty,* Zina, and the bottom was cut out, so the rounded snout end looked just like Snoopy's (strikes me now that they designed bleach bottles differently back then). And I was 11 years old--clueless enough to do whatever I was told. Could explain why I never worried much about acne as a teenager though....
It's great being able to play along with the CD and have the sheet music - the videos really are too dark to be much help (black concertina played by a guy wearing a black shirt, with a black background).
I like the fact that there are two different versions of the tunes - a beginners version and an advanced with ordamentations (spelling?). However I do find it very frustrating that with the beginners versions, if the tune has two parts (ie. A and B) you have two mp3 files two play, so you can't play the whole thing through with both parts, without a break into the middle to run the second mp3 file.
As an Aussie, the price was very high once you figure in the exchange rate and postage etc. However I found the staff at MFT very helpful with email enquiries.
I also have the John Williams Concertina video, and find that the two work well together.
madfortrad tutorial
madfortrad tutorial
Hi,
has anyone acquired madfortrad tutorials and what do you think of them? are they worth getting ( I personally have second thoughts because of the price)
Thanx for your help,
H.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by hhold
Re: madfortrad tutorial
For those interested...the madfortrad tutorials are at:
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_MadforTrad.html
The flute says it's by Seamus Egan...I'd be interested in what anyone has to say about these. You're right...they're pricey.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I'd be interested in a comparison to Scoiltrad's online tutorials.
Scoiltrad Online Lessons
http://www.scoiltrad.com/
Free Demo--flute lesson
http://www.scoiltrad.com/demo/flute_demo.html
Free Demo--tin whistle
http://www.scoiltrad.com/demo/whistle_demo.html
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Well...this is the home site:
http://madfortrad.com/
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Cheaper price at the home site. Was $45 at the first one I found...$39 at the home site.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I have copies of both the flute tutorial (with Seamus Egan) and the whistle tutorial (with Brian Finnegan). I think that the tutorials themselves are fairly well done, and it was fun to be able to see them both demonstrate tunes--and nice to be able to play along with the audio track playing in the background with the tune notation on the screen. That said, I really never ended up using them very much. They seem to be pitched mostly towards beginners, so if you have much experience at all, they aren't overwhelmingly useful.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by aconnel
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Hi there!
Where I live is some musical stuff is somewhat hard (if not impossible to find).
When I bought my MFT flute tutorial I didn't expect a miracle from it (don't believe in miracles a lot lately). I think it would have come more in handy when I started.
The CD is OK, very well done, professional look and plenty of contents. Apart form a long interview with Seamus Egan with interesting points of view regarding music and flute playing. You can learn about ornamentation, style, breathing an such things. You can also learn a good bunch of commonly played at sessions tunes. I still think that the price might be a bit high, but I forget that when I watch Egan's performance at the end of the CD.
Not very helpful I'm afraid, just mixed feelings.
Rafa
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Rmcordoba
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Ok Rafa & aconnel...would you consider downloading the free tutorial from scoiltrad, looking it over and telling us how it compares to your madfortrad tutorial?
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I'm a bit surprised to hear people complain about the price of the MFT tutorials....IMHO, $40-$45 USD is not expensive for the amount of instruction on those cds. At least not when the going rate for a face to face lesson with a teacher is at least $20 for 30 to 45 minutes. A lot of work goes into preparing lesson material--that alone justifies the cost, in my mind. But I'm biased, because I've taught music. It can be discouraging when someone acts desperate to learn, but balks at paying much for the hard-won knowledge and insights of a good musician and teacher.
A friend of mine has the MFT banjo tutorial--he's very happy with it because it helps so much to see what's happening while you're listening. The only downside was the videos came through on Realplayer, so the picture size wasn't full-screen. Otherwise, I learned a fair amount just from skimming through a couple of the videos. So I'm ordering the flute tutorial--it's well worth the money, just for Seamus demonstrating the tunes, let along talking about technique.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: madfortrad tutorial
The madfortrad and Scoiltrad lessons have different applications. Madfortrad has no live interaction but I hear there's a wider, more general, breadth of information. Scoiltrad's lessons are focused on a specific tune (and usually two to three specific techniques) and you have personal interaction with the tutor. They are also arranged by level. So the two tutorials will help with different things and suit just about anybody. You're not really comparing apples and apples there. Both are excellent and I hear that people are very pleased with both.
http://www.celticcafe.com/music/scoiltrad/index.html
I'm off to Lincoln NE to give workshops. Talk to you guys later!
Zina
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Alas, neither madfortrad nor scoiltrad offer mandolin tutorials. Do any of you know of any Irish or "Celtic" CD-ROM or DVD based mandolin tutorials?
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by mad dawg
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I didn't say the price was unfair or not a good value given what is offered...I just don't have $45 to rush out and spend. That's why I was pricing around.
Scoiltrad's costs much less, but I suspect it's because the lessons are offered in pieces: one tune at a certain level of playing per lesson? I'm wondering if you'd spend as much on individual Scoiltrads to get to the same instruction level as is offered on the one madfortrad CD.
What is taught madfortrad vs. Scoiltrad? Understandably, the approach is different, with Scoiltrad letting you send in recordings of yourself to the teacher.
So, could you tell us how much instruction is on the madfortrad CD lesson. How in debt is it...how much is aimed at someone who's just picking up the instrument for the first time, versus someone who already plays and reads music, etc.?
I'm wondering which is a better fit for a real beginner or for someone who already knows how to play the instrument and read music, etc. but is learning the irish style of playing.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Mad Dawg...lots out there. Here're a few I found easily:
Learn to Play the Irish Mandolin Video Tutor
http://www.irishharps.net/video.htm
Celtic Mandolin & Irish Mandolin Books, Videos & CDs
http://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/local/m31.htm
Has better descriptions of the sets:
http://www.celt.com.au/guitar.html
Var. Mandolin resources
http://www.mandozine.com/resources/resourceGd/book.html
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I have the Anthony Warde "How to Play Irish Mandolin" video. I think it is worth the price. He walks you through how to play a reel ("Mountain Road") and a jig ("Wexford Jig"). He'll play a tune through a few times on just the mandolin, then play it with a "band" including an accordian, guitar and penny whistle. In addition, he plays several other tunes to demonstrate various techniques or keys. Lots of suggestions on how to do various techniques. All in all, I would recommend it.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Jiml
Re: madfortrad tutorial
RE: Scoiltrad lessons...think of them as private lessons where the teacher gives you a tape of the tune to learn, and then you get together to go over how you've done. I've really liked my Scoiltrad lessons. Kevin's a very funny man and a wonderful teacher and fiddler, of course, and it's incredible how much he pegged of my playing needs off the mpg's I sent him, right down to little niggling bowing details. Did you take a look at the free lesson download at Scoiltrad to see if you like the format? Perhaps Glauber can give you the lowdown on what it's like to take lessons from Conal, as that's who your main tutor would be.
zls
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Thanks Katie, but all of the mandolin videos I have found online (except for Chris Thile's) are in VHS format. I would love to locate DVD and/or CD-ROM based Irish/Celtic tutorials for their ease of use in looping sections, pausing, rewinding, skipping back, etc. Any suggestions?
(aside from buying the tapes and a DVD burner
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by mad dawg
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I'll dig around and get back with ya on that.
I downloaded the Scoiltrad demos for flute N whistle. They look great, and I'd pretty much settled on getting one. Then this discussion on madtrad...and I wondered about the madtrad ones since there's no demo or sample to give a good idea of what they offer.
Now, I've gotten some emails from Justin Murphy. I'll have to drive to the French Quarter, but he's teaching private lessons in a music room at O'Flaherty's! Can you hear me from where you are? "GOODY, GOODY, GOODY, GOODY!!!"
That said...I still think I could benefit from exposure to other players' styles and such. So I'm still looking at Stoiltrad & madtrad.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
of course relatively speaking the tutorials are not expensive. I'm sure there's alot tolearn from them. But 44 euros relative to my wallet is definitly something.
in addition It's truly a pity indeed ythat there's no mandolin tutorial. wouldn't it be cooll if someone like Declan Corey released one of them;
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by hhold
Re: madfortrad tutorial--mandolin tutors (CD)
Sorry...didn't find DVD, but quite a few have CDs with them. Here are some...some prob appear in the list I posted before.
Fiddle Tunes & Irish Music for Mandolin Book/CD set by Gelo--"A fun-to-play collection of 62 favorite fiddle and Irish tunes arranged in notation and tablature for mandolin solo. Ideal music for intermediate level technical study in sight reading. The CD is in split-track format, thus allowing the mandolin student to play along with the mandolin solo, lively guitar accompaniment, or both. Due to time constraints, the CD contains only 18 songs from the book. "
5 Star Rating--A Complete Guide to Learning the Irish Mandolin (CD Edition) by Padraig Carroll: "The mandolin is an integral part of the Irish music scene. This book and CD package is a comprehensive introduction to this exciting instrument. Learn the basics of playing, music reading and a variety of jigs, reels, polkas and more."
5 Star rating: Learn to Play Irish Fiddle Tunes For Mandolin CD (Intermediate Level) by Mark Bickford http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y1315228Y3901180/104-1320005-5227138
Some misc. ones: New Celtic Mandolin Book & New Celtic Mandolin CD by Simon Mayor, The Irish Mandolin & The Irish Mandolin CD by Carroll (Price around and pull them up elsewhere for more info. This site didn't give a lot of info.)
http://www.simplyirish.com/product.asp?SID=03012413434DA86F033E&Cat=0&Page=1&ID=317
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Thanks for doing this research for me Katie! (now if I can only get someone to practice for me...)
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by mad dawg
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I think the madfortrad flute tutorial is good value for money. Seamus plays the tunes without ornamentation and then ornamented intoducing different techniques as he goes. It's all done at a relatively easypace and of course its easy to "loop" the tunes until they sink in. It would probably be better for beginner to intermediate rather than intermediate to advanced. I think it helped take me to a higher level although i've nothing to compare it with apart from the scoiltrad demo flute lesson.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by domino
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I've had the MadforTrad concertina tutor for several months (I'm supposed to post a review on www.concertina.net and can't get the last details done, mea culpa). It is a solid and well-thought out approach, and not narrow either. On C/G concertina there are many possible fingerings (key of D, for example). Most teachers start you one way, but Niall Valelly on this CD-ROM uses more than one system without overloading you, or even telling you he is doing it. I think it would be a solid way to start Irish-style concertina. The CD is pretty well organized and set up; I would only change a few details.
Ken
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by KenC
Re: madfortrad tutorial
What's the difference between a mandlolin and a bouzouki? I see that there are tutorials for bouzouki.
and no...it's not the opening to a joke!
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Buzuki is a Greek instrument, like a big mandolin, an octave lower, more or less. Mandolin has straight back, 'zouki has round back. It can be tuned GDAE (ocatave lower than the mandolin), but often it's tuned GDAD or ADAD.
http://www.ceolas.org/instruments/cittern.html
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/bouzouki/
Donal Lunny is probably the most well known Irish musik bousoukist.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by glauber
Re: madfortrad tutorial
MadDog,
I have both the Simon Mayer CD/Book and Padraig Carroll CD/Book, both of which I have found to be very useful. Padraig's book is more fundamental than Simon's. Padraig's book finishes with some exercises on ornamation and Simon's basically starts with ornamation, with some brief commentary on fundamentals. Simon has an companion VHS, which is very good. I have studied from both and find myself often coming back to each of them for different reasons.
Mr. Glauber nailed the basic difference between zouks and mandos. If a zouk is tuned in GDAE, as a mando, then the similarities are very close. If the zouk is tuned in GDAD or ADAD, then there's a longer learning process involved. Donal Lunny (Planxty and Bothy Band), Andy Irvine (Planxty), Alec Finn (De Dannan) and Kevin Macleod (Springwell album) are the mando/zouk gurus of ITM. These experts focus on one or two tunings, but play the instrument with a tuning that provides their favorite interpretation of a tune. Bloody geniuses!
Then there's the issue of learning to fret with fat fingers on a mando, or chord on a zouk with small hands!
I have found that, in general (yes, there are exceptions!), mandolins play melody (I use a hard pick so I can be heard), and zouks provide rhythm.
Cheers,
Marty
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Marty
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I have the Madfortrad concertina tutorial by Nial Vallely.
I think it is well done, the beginner section introduces one to the instrument and music. The advanced section includes lots of advanced techniques. I also don't like the fact that the videos show in real player but they are helpful and it is very nice to see the tunes and ornamentations played.
I don't use it extensively, but am glad I have it for occasional reference.
Dan
# Posted on January 25th 2003 by DanielB
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Dan,
I've also got the Concertina tutorial, though my videos play in Windows media player. It appears that any files with the extension MPG are being picked up by your computer's default video viewer which must be Real Player.
To change this go into My Computer, select View -> Folder Options and the File Types tab.
Concerning the Madfortrad tutorials - I think they're as close as you can get to having a professional tutor sitting next to you.
The presentation is excellent and clearly a lot of effort has gone into making them, Considering that they will only sell to a (relatively) small market, the price is excellent value.
For other concertina players out there, Niall Vallely also plays all the tunes on the Gerry McKee bouzouki tutorial - I think these are a better selection as they generally are more upbeat - Bird in the Bush in the performance section sounds fantastic.
# Posted on January 25th 2003 by Concertina Player
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Katiebythegate, I think there is another important answer to your question. The main difference between a mandolin tutorial and a bouzouki tutorial is that while the former will concentrate on melody playing, the latter will focus largely or solely on accompaniment.
The physical differences between the instruments is not always clear cut (although the term 'mandolin' is generally reserved for smaller instruments, round-backed or flat-backed, tuned to the same pitch as the fiddle) - terms such as bouzouki, Irish bouzouki, short-scale bouzouki, octave mandolin, mandola, long-necked mandolin, cittern and 'Blarge' represent a continuous spectrum of plucked, double-coursed (i.e. strings in pairs) instruments, rather than definitive instruments. Irish 'bouzouki' players who use the true Greek bouzouki, which Glauber describes, are relatively few.
# Posted on January 25th 2003 by ragaman
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I have been a straight melody player for years and the MFT bouzouki tutorial helped me considerably in understanding the process behind all the seemingly elaborate backup stuff I hear on so many recordings. The format is excellent and the MFT folks are very helpful. I initially had trouble getting the CD-ROM to play, but they helped me through the setup (mine did not play when with Quicktime. When I switched over to Windows Media Player it worked like a charm). Highly recommended.
# Posted on January 25th 2003 by IanBCelt
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Hi IanBCelt,
I would say only 2 from 8 of the 'Advanced' Topics listed on the box were actually covered on the CD (Bouzouki Tutor). I think the Guitar tutor is far better (i.e closer to what is advertised!).
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by bouzyboy
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I have the anglo MFT - apart from the fact it was filmed outside without enough lighting - sometimes you cannot see what his fingers are doing, I found it excellent value.
My son got the banjo MFT which he thinks is good - I also worked through the banjo one, on concertina so there is always scope for swapping instruments.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Maybe if more time was spent playing music and less time on the internet, people would'nt be complaining so much about their tutorials, In fairness tutorials can only guide us down the right path we must do the work ourselves, if one learns a few tunes the pleasure got , is well worth €40. Keep up the good work MFT.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Northcregg
Re: madfortrad tutorial
??? I just re-read this entire thread trying to figure out where you got the idea anyone was complaining about their tutorials, MFT. Still can't figure it out.
Zina
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Yikes, Northcregg...some might take offense at that statement if it weren't a bit...misguided?
If what you are saying is that learning a few tunes with the tutorials is worth the money you spend...that's some of what we're trying to find out. Thanks for that input. I gather your experience is with MFT and that you like it very much. Could you be more specific about which tutorial you used and what you liked about it?
Who's complaining? I'm thrilled to discover that these tutorials exist. In case you didn't catch it, this was a thread to find out more about the MFT tutorials and what they are all about. I'm glad this thread was begun because I was looking into tutorials when I saw it, and I was only aware of the Scoiltrads.
Yes, I agree. Tutorials are like exercise videos, Northcregg... sitting on the couch watching the video (or on the net reading about it) isn't getting the exercises done. However, the time spent researching is far from wasted if you put what you learn from it to work. I understood that as what you meant?
As for spending less time on the net and more playing music...the net has been how I tracked down everything I've needed for ITM, and I couldn't have done it any other way given the lack of similar information & resources in places I've lived. Now I CAN play (and improve), thanks to the time that I've put in researching on the net. I bow before the throne of Jeremy and say sincerely, "Thanks for being here."
Zina, I re-read as well...and noticed a Freudian slip I made..."in debt" rather than "in depth". lol
My only complaint is financial...who wouldn't love having more to spend on CD's, another instrument, a week at an ITM music camp, etc.--and yes, tutorials. The comments on cost aren't a reflection on whether the price is justified...only a reflection on my ability to acquire what I want or need--which leads to comparisons between tutorials to seek out the most content for my buckaroos.
I asked about the tutorials because I don't have many opportunities where I live to experience ITM being played live. Since the posts, however, I've found a teacher...through a grrrrrrrrrrreat deal of searching on the net, I might add. As I've said before, the tutorials would still seem to be helpful to someone like me, teacher or no, because it's always beneficial to study the different styles and techniques of various players.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Stacey, the lads at MadforTrad would throttle me for suggesting this, but you could probably sell the tutorial after you got everything out of it you could, recouping some of your cash. Though I'm guessing it will be the kind of thing you want to hang onto and return to for fresh insights. Another option is to find someone else who plays the same instrument, split the cost, and then share the disk back and forth.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Quote: "Maybe if more time was spent playing music and less time on the internet, people would'nt be complaining so much about their tutorials..."
No offense was taken here, but were it not for spending time on the internet, I wouldn't have even known that MFT or their tutorials exist. Perhaps like many other in this on-line community, my time on the internet only distracts me away from my job, and not from more important things like practicing.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by mad dawg
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Ah, mad dawg, us hardcore sessioners.org think of it as the job occasionally distracting us from the internet....
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Will! You BAD boy...BAD...! NO biscuit! Go lie down! *grin* Personally, I regularly drop $40 (er, or a lot more) on a dinner easily, so I can't go complaining when I have no cash for a lesson or CD, but I have a personal aversion to stiffing somebody on a tutorial CD -- I feel the same way about books.
Same goes for people who buy Scoiltrad lessons and pass 'em around the Net. Shame shame shame -- shouldn't go doing your fellow players out of hard-earned cash, right? Just remember, Karma bites back. ;)
Now, having said that, one of our local sessions uses their tips to purchase CDs and videos, both instructional and not, and they now have a tidy little lending library for all of their session members. How cool is that? I sort of see that as serving the same function of a public library. They also use their funds to help subsidize workshops for session members when players come into town.
I think that's a stellar idea, too...
zls
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Zina, what, don't they have burgers in Denver?
Well, i don't know anything about MadForTrad, but the best part of the Scoiltrad lesson is when, after waiting nervously for a month or so
, you finally get the homework review from the teacher. That's what's so good about it (at least Scoiltrad), and you wouldn't get it if you just bought the lesson from Will on eBay. 
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by glauber
Food glorious food, and, oh yeah, the subject is tutorials...
So I have expensive taste. Sue me. *snort* One of my favorite meatloaf dinners is at Bloom, which serves "New American Cuisine" (whatever the heck that is), and it costs something like USD$9.00. It sounds totally off, I mean, c'mon, it's meatloaf, right?, but you haven't tried this meatloaf, which bears no resemblance at all to the hockey pucks my mom popped out of the oven.
And if you like burgers, you have to come back here and we'll go to the Cherry Cricket in Cherry Creek, which is a old-style neighborhood bar that watched the neighborhood it is in turn into the chi-chi part of town. Best burgers in the city. $6.00 a pop. (And then of course you want cheese, and maybe a side of white chili, and well, duh, beer.)
Anyway, yes, the advantage of Scoiltrad is that you get personal attention and a personalized critique with advice and suggestions from some of the best. Mad for Trad doesn't have that personal interaction, but does cover a wider breadth of information in general. So you have to pick which one works best for you at this point in your playing career!
zls
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Mind you, *I* would never resell my copy of a tutorial...just searching for options for Stacey. But now look what you've done--a lifetime of paper training and I've piddled out of fear on the carpet
I like the idea of the lending library bought with money from the tip jar. Something to institute here at home, methinks.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Ha. A whack on the snoot with a rolled-up newspaper was nearly yours, Harmon.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
I'm banging my head on the key board trying to erase the mental image of Zina the Dominatrix & Will piddling...BAD mental image...bad bad Baaaaaad...why, oh, why did I ever come in here tonight???
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Quote: "Ah, mad dawg, us hardcore sessioners.org think of it as the job occasionally distracting us from the internet...."
LOL!
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by mad dawg
Re: madfortrad tutorial
*grin* Ah, Stacey, you couldn't even come close! Someday, when I'm old and won't feel nearly so embarassed about it, I'll send you a pic of me in one of my PVC Goth Chick outfits...(Goth Spice, that was me...)
zls
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
And somewhere I have a photo of my in my Snoopy-as-WWI-flying-ace Halloween costume than won me first prize in the neighborhood contest. We painted a cardboard box to look like Snoopy's doghouse, complete with bullet holes from the Red Baron, and I wore an aviator's leather cap and goggles, and a white scarf. The coup de grace was the Clorox bleach bottle we converted into the beagle's nose.
So I have some history of being a bad dog....
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: madfortrad tutorial
You wore a bleach bottle over your face?!
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: madfortrad tutorial
Well, it was *empty,* Zina, and the bottom was cut out, so the rounded snout end looked just like Snoopy's (strikes me now that they designed bleach bottles differently back then). And I was 11 years old--clueless enough to do whatever I was told. Could explain why I never worried much about acne as a teenager though....
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: madfortrad tutorial - Review of Concertina
I have the MFT Concertina Tutorial.
It's great being able to play along with the CD and have the sheet music - the videos really are too dark to be much help (black concertina played by a guy wearing a black shirt, with a black background).
I like the fact that there are two different versions of the tunes - a beginners version and an advanced with ordamentations (spelling?). However I do find it very frustrating that with the beginners versions, if the tune has two parts (ie. A and B) you have two mp3 files two play, so you can't play the whole thing through with both parts, without a break into the middle to run the second mp3 file.
As an Aussie, the price was very high once you figure in the exchange rate and postage etc. However I found the staff at MFT very helpful with email enquiries.
I also have the John Williams Concertina video, and find that the two work well together.
Just my two cents worth.
Regards
Morgana (Down Under
# Posted on February 8th 2003 by Ptollemy