I've heard some of you talk about these things. I'd like to know what kind you have and if you like it. My session cassettes stink, and everyone says the clarity with these MD recorders is great, and that you can hook up to your computer to dump into CoolEdit and such. What say you about these MD critters?
Last Monday, Beth Leachman came over to our rehearsal and asked if we would record Cunla in a specific key and with certain breaks and repeats for her kids to dance and sing to at their next assembly. Deciding to see which we liked better, we set up a decent microphone on a boom mike and computer, and we also clipped Beth's mini-disc mike to the cord of the boomed mike. The sound on the mini-disc was superior to the computer.
One of these days I'm going to free up the cash to buy one of those things, it was awesome!
How many tapes of sessions do we record and study only never to listen to them again once the tune is learned? These MiniDisks are so good, you can burn CD's from them and people will think they were listening to "Session At Matt Malloy's". These recordings become your treasured audio jems. I'd highly recommend the stereo microphone! It really makes everything come alive.
"The sound on the mini-disc was superior to the computer"
That's because the A/D (analog-to-digital converter) in your average PC's sound card is krappy. The A/D in the minidisk recorder is much higher quality.
Of course, you can buy a professional quality A/D (the cheapest good ones are just under $500 these days) for the computer, and then it would beat the minidisk easily.
i bought a sharp mt877 minidisc recorder to use at the noel hill concertina school in 2001. since then, i've used to record sessions, the tunes i'm given to learn at my fiddle lesson, numerous performances at the celtic colours festival in cape breton ... the list could go on.
i use a single-point stereo mic and get sound quality that's usually quite good and always more than acceptable, often under difficult conditions. i worked in radio production for over 15 years, so i have a pretty critical ear.
i couldn't live without mine.
a good online source for mindisc products & info is minidisco.com. (i have no connection with them.)
Hi Katie.. Any of the SONY recorders are good. I have a 2 year old one now and it's the best musical tool I've ever had. I use a Sony MS 907 mic. and the sound quality is really good. The best thing about these recorders is that you can edit the disk content. Thus you can record a session and the delete the parts you don't want or chop the session up into multiple tracks and then reorder the tracks if you want. Track repeat is cool too for learning a tune. I highly recommend them.
Bob
I have a sony minidisc(don't ask what model). I find it's excellent for recording tunes etc. The sound is far better than a cassette, and i use it to record my tutor playing a tune which he then gets me to learn by ear. If you are having trouble with a certain part of a tune you can "mark" the section and every time you listen to it, it will automatically return to the start of that section.This makes it a lot less frustrating than having to constantly rewind a cassette, hopefully stopping at the point you want etc.
I have two minidiscs at the moment of tunes at different speeds which is a great help. I find having a tune recorded at slow, medium and normal session speed is a very handy.
I have also used it to record sessions and have used it to record Christy Moore live in concert. The playback quality is fantastic and thanks to it's editing function i have erased the parts i don't want like my girlfriend asking me "which one is Donal Lunny" etc.
I bought a tiny mic for it (130euro's) which is about the size of a plectrum and thus this makes concealing it so much easier.
Many of my friends have them, and between the various types the sony ones are by far the best. Also do not make the mistake i made, make sure and buy a long play (LP) one. This will give approx 300 minutes playback instead of the 74 mins on my one.
Help needed,
I'm not much of a computer buff so excuse my ignorance.i have tried to connect my mini disc to my PC's soundcard in order to burn CD's etc.. I have visited the local Sony centre to no avail. The Pc will not take anything from my minidisc. I plug it into the soundcard and it dos'nt register at all. The sony centre have said that due to copyright protection etc the sony equipment will not leave you burn a cd from a sony minidic player etc. I find this a pretty lame excuse but am none the wiser myself. Any suggestiopns?
I also have a Sony and swear by it. They're great because if you want to delete huge chunks of recording with just people talking and glasses clinking, you can wipe it in an instant. My particular model has several long play options (LP, LP2, LP4, Mono) in descending order of quality. LP4 just keeps going for ever. You can record a whole session if you make sure you've charged the batteries to full power beforehand. After you've edited the minidisc you can burn the whole lot onto a CD - maybe look up a few tune names on Henrik Norbeck's, and you've got a brand new CD to listen to!
I recently bought a minidisc recorder and it sounds like you have the same one or a similar one. (Mine is the SONY netMD N707.) I don't yet have a computer at home but I was wondering whether I would have a problem once I get one. (my next project up, after I finish learning how to use the minidisc recorder.)
I know you can't upload from the minidisc recorder to the PC quickly or digitally. However, it sounds like you can do this in real time, via analog transfer. Here's a bit of a discussion I found on the Mudcat site. This woman has the SONY N707. Initially she couldn't get anything on to the computer and was planning to return the recorder. However, after getting advice on this thread, she was apparently successful in transferring MD to PC. Here's her description of what she did, followed by a link to the entire thread if you want more details: (and I'd be curious myself to hear anyone else’s experience using this model to do MD to PC transfers.)
***************************************************************
I just succeeded in getting a minidisc recording into the computer! I attached one end of a male-to-male cable into the headphone jack of the mdr and the other end into the mic input of the computer. Then I started up Windows sound recorder on the pc, started playing the minidisc, and created a wav file on the pc, which I saved. Now it can be converted to mp3 or cda or whatever. With better sound recording software and editing software, this can do exactly what I was looking for.
I've connected the mini disc via the analogue output to the soundcard and via the headphone jack to the mic input in the soundcard. All to no avail. I go into the section for external device and select "record from external" device and nothing happens. I've used different leads etc so its not a problem with the lead etc. The mini disc will play into portable speakers so there is nothing wrong with the headphone jack.
God knows how to get this to work
A friend of mine records from an record player onto Cd's using this method all the time, and he's tried also to no avail.
That's what I do, but I use Cool Edit 2000, which allows you to mess about with the sound and accurately cut bits out to the nearest 0.001 second or something ridiculous. The people at my local Sony shop said that there are 2 basic kinds of recorder - ones that can download stuff from the net, and ones that don't. The ones that do are more expensive and newer. Mine doesn't. With mine I can only play stuff into the PC and then burn a CD of it, but then that's all I ever need to do anyway. My model is an MZ-R900 (320min), definitely not the latest coolest model, but it does everything I need it to do.
Do not buy a Sony. Buy a Sharp.
Why? Two very, very important reasons.
1) Because the motor noise on the Sonys is much louder than on the Sharps and is picked up very clearly by most microphones, especially if the mic is plugged right into the unit without a cable to distance it from the machine. I have the Sony MZ-909 unit, the highest end unit that could be bought before NetMD was released. Even with a microphone several feet away you can hear the whir and buzz of the motor, which is extremely obnoxious. Don't even try to plug a mic right into the side of the thing.
Sharp recorders, on the other hand are very, very quiet and a mic plugged right into the side of the unit will pick up almost no noise at all.
2) Recording volume control.
Sony units only let you use "automatic gain control" (or some similar name), which means that the recorder is supposed to automatically set the recording level to it's optimum setting, avoid clipping, etc. Unfortunately, this almost never works very well. In a session I ALWAYS get clipping, which is extremely obnoxious and has ruined many recordings.
Thankfully, the Sharp units have a manual recording volume feature, which lets you watch the meter and set it to the optimum position. This works much, much better for sessions and other high volume situations. My new recorder, the Sharp MD-DR7 from Minidisco.com works wonders when recording sessions and I recommend it highly.
Best,
Chris
Well, if I ever drop my Sony and it breaks, I'll know what to buy next time. I've always been annoyed by that bloody whirring sound and assumed it was "part of the parcel" of having a minidisc player.
chris' points about sharp vs sony are well-taken. i picked the sharp largely because it allows me to set my own record levels. and, as chris says, the motor noise is almost inaudible. i often record with my mike plugged directly into the unit, rather than into the cable, and have noticed little motor noise on the recordings. i recently forgot to recharge the battery for my md and had it stop working at a fiddle lesson. i borrowed my teacher's sony (using my mic) and recorded the tune ... the motor noise from the sony was *extremely* audible on the recording.
another difference between the two brands, as i understand, is that the sony mds use a proprietary encoding format for their recordings, that makes it difficult for sony mds to 'talk' to computers and other audio devices unless you also buy proprietary sony connectors etc. (if i'm mistaken about this, someone please correct me)
I've heard that there are now some MP3 recorders that allow recording straight from a microphone to a MP3. I don't know much about the sound quality you can get with that kind of device but that would be a great stuff to exchange session recordings with some others (as long as recordings are copyright free of course...).
Does anyone have more information about this ?
Rob, are you referring to those MP3 recorders that let you record and store 1000 tunes? I'd love putting session sets on one of those once I could play well enough to not need to go to certain points in a tune, etc. while learning them.
To anyone not familiar with Cool Edit. Get the demo to see if you like it, and choose the stretch and CD features (you have to choose 2 features to try each time you turn it on). You can take any tune and slow it to any speed while maintaining the pitch in order to hear the ornaments better and learn by ear. You can edit out things you don't want in there and add things you do. For instance, I like to add my voice stating the names of the tunes at the beginning of each in the slow speed version I make. Then on the fast version, I put all the names at the beginning of the set with my voice counting the tempo off. When learning, I loop the set so it repeats over and over. You can also record any tunes and put them together to make a custom set to play.
I recommend CoolEdit highly. I don't know if anything else compares or not because it's the first thing that was recommended to me.
Yes I was referring to MP3 recorders, some of them have hard disk that go up to 20Gb (you can store a lot of sessions on this...), but I heard there were some with a microphone input and a buffer memory which enable recording straight into a MP3 (Which is really cool for exchanging with some other fellow musicians). But I'm not sure about the recording rate (and therefore the quality) you get with this, especially compared to MD. If quality is comparable, then it means the death of MD...
Otherwise about Cool Edit, there is also a freeware called Pacemaker that is actually a plugin of Winamp (but does not work with the latest version, you have to pick the one before), which enables to listen to a CD or to a MP3 at low speed (goes down to 50%) without changing the pitch, or changing it if you want to (That's really convenient for a flute player when you only have a D flute...)
Read that article Caoi mghgin posted if you want to understand the problems Celtic1234 and Zhenya mentioned...and possibly find a way to deal with them. Written where anyone can understand.
I don't think Pacemaker let you chop and edit (at least in the version I have), it just slows the tempo of the CD or of the MP3 and the pitch. It's quite a small plugin actually, and I have to admit that the sound quality of the tune you get when you slow it down a lot is not good at all. But still it's very usefull, and free ! I found it really enjoyable when I used it at first, it's like speaking to Seamus Egan or Matt Molloy, Hey man ? Can't you stop playing that quick with your F sharp flute ? Is it because you don't want some others to steal your tune ? Bad boy ! first you take a D flute like anyone else, and second you sloooow down, OK, now we can play together !
Celtic 1234 - I asked about the model because I wanted to see if it was the same as mine (to see what problems I might encounter.) I looked quickly on the web for the MZ-R55 to see what the differences were. One person commented that the cable that came with it didn’t allow MD to CD recording, but he bought a better cable and got it to work. Perhaps this would work with your MD to PC problems? (just one guess.)
Caoimghgin - Thanks for the link to that article; I read it. At lease it does sound like (in theory!) you can record from the MD to the PC.
I've tried a mike plugged directly into the side of the SONY N707, and then the same mike on a cable several inches away. (the manual says it must be at least 6 inches away.) So far, I haven't noticed much difference between the two. I've been very happy with the sound quality, but of course I'm comparing this to my old cassette recorder. I'll have to hear the Sharp recorder and see if it's different.
For those of you interested in mp3 recorders rather than minidisc recorders, you might find this info helpful. I have also provided a link to a great article about why minidisc recorders still can't upload digital copies of live recorded music to the computer.
Make sure you do your homework before buying an mp3 recorder. Mp3 recorders have a lot of future promise, but the majority, if not all of the current crop are half-baked, so to speak. Believe me, I want a good mp3 recorder just as much if not more than you do. The idea of recording thousands of hours onto something the size of a deck of cards seems like heaven to me.
To do your research I recommend the following:
The D-Music MP3 gear forum: http://www.dmusic.com/forum/gearup/
Beware of the MP3.com editorial reviews - they give everything a good review. Don't buy anything until you've read at least a couple good reviews of the product, preferably from people on a forum rather than a paid reviewer. Also, make sure the mp3 recorder does EXACTLY what you want it to do, without the addition of other expensive and cumbersome doohickies. Creative Labs, for instance, just came out with a wired remote for their Nomad Jukebox, allowing direct to mp3 voice and music recording through the mic that is built into the remote... unfortunately it sucks big time: http://gear.ign.com/articles/383/383460p1.html
A lot of companies are going to be releasing hard-drive based mp3 players and recorders in the next month to six months, so if you don't mind waiting a bit you really might as well do so.
Also, if you're looking at minidisc, do keep in mind that minidisc recorders, even the new NetMD recorders, are extremely crippled in that you can not digitally transfer anything that you've recorded onto disc back onto computer, DAT, or anyother storage medium. The only way you can transfer your music to PC to burn it to CD (or whatever you plan to do with it) is through an analog cable, which is slow and results in loss of sound quality. I love my minidisc, but it has a long way to go and much to be desired (damn Sony and RIAA!!)
For a good article about why, after all this time, we still can't record a live concert or session with our minidisc recorder and then digitally transfer it to our PC, check out this very interesting WIRED article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/sony.html
This article sheds a lot of light on why we don't already have a plethora of hard-disk based mp3 players and why so few of them have a recording function, and why, worse yet, those recording functions are severely crippled, useful for low quality voice recording only.
I hope that helps you out.
Best,
Chris
This is no surprise. What would you expect, when the same company that sells you overpriced recordings is also the company you go to when you want to buy equipment that would allow you to make cheap high-quality recordings?
That's why as new media evolve, we're not necessarily left better off. Is MD better than CD? Yes, it's smaller, but is it better if you can't make copies of it? Is DVD better than VHS? Yes, it's better quality, but why can't i play the DVDs that my family sends me from Brazil? Just because the movie companies (there's Sony again, btw) don't want you to be able to buy a DVD from a different part of the world and see a movie before it gets released in theaters.
The one digital recording solution i know of is using a portable DAT recorder, and then doing a digital transfer to a CD burner. But now you're talking big bucks again. Maybe someone will make a decent A/D converter for one of the pocket or palm PCs available in the market.
ChrisLaughlin, I went to Circuit City & Best Buy today, & neither of them carry Sharp MD recorders, & minidisco.com is out of stock of the model you recommend. (It's my birthday, I'm gonna splurge!) Uh, anyway, how easy is it to convert MD to CD with Sharp? Still gotta go analog?
Thanks,
Emily
PS Checked out most of your links, totally fascinating, great resources!
Emily - You're most welcome. Yeah, Circuit City & Best Buy basically = lose. Also, Sharp has pretty much pulled out of the US market, so you're very unlikely to find a Sharp recorder in a brick and morter store here. Minidisco imports them from Japan to sell here.
As for converting MD to CD... yeah, unfortunately unless you want to buy a $1500, professional MD deck there is no way to go from MD to CD digitally.... you've just got to plug the analog cable into the MD and the computer, record with Soundforge or Cooledit or whatever you choose to use and hope it turns out okay. It's a real pain in the arse!
I provided some good links to mp3 information, but there are lots of good places to find out about minidisc as well. You might try http://www.minidisc.org
Also, call Minidisco back and ask them when they plan to have the DR7 back in stock... it might not be that long a wait and I'm sure they can reserve one for you. The other option is to order one from a business in Japan or Europe, but I'd avoid that if I had the choice.
Best,
Chris
My Sony MZ-R70 MiniDisk recorder is in need of repair, so I spent the better part of two hours being shuffled along from one department to the next. It seems like a simple fix. The battery lid isn't latching properly and requires a bit of tape to keep it sealed and working.
I'll spare you the gory details, but apparently most (if not all) of the local Sony service techs refuse to replace the lid claiming it has to be shipped to the factory and the factory charges $117.99 flat fee for any work that they do. Good deal if your $2,000 video camera needs some work, but a really bad deal for a $30 battery lid replacement!
Looks like I'm in the market for a new MiniDisk recorder and I'll be looking at Sharp!
I bought a Sony. The $200 one. With NetMD, Jukebox, car kit, etc etc, & a split stereo microphone. I forget the model # offhand.
Anyway, see, they have this 30 day money-back guarantee at Best Buy, & I wanted to record the contra dance Saturday night, so I figured what the heck, & busted it out. I'm sorry to report, the results were stunning. First an acoustic trial, just me on wooden flute & a guitar playing a couple sets, the mic way away from the recorder. Four tracks later, we plugged it directly into the sound system of the house, & it was like listening to a professional recording. It was really stunning, & no whirring or anything like that, & I strained considerably to detect anything. I haven't ventured into the manual recording level domain, b/c well frankly, I just walked in the door & haven't even looked at any of the software much less any of the bells & whistles this thing's got on it. I'm curious to know what you mean by clipping? I recorded a 10 musician ensemble, all of us miked, & wasn't sure where to place the bloody thing, so ended up placing it sort of in the midst of the proceedings, & it came out very well, for the fact that almost no effort or planning went into it, but would be interested to know if it's preferable to plug into a sound board or something for amplified performances? But back to clipping, yeah there was one tune that was sort of ruined by a skipping type thingy, but we attributed it to the general stomping (it was Homage de Edmund Parizeau & we were cooking) & the MD was perched on a music stand. But it could be this nefarious clipping you describe, which would suck.
Anyway, in the next week I'm gonna fool around with downloading analog, burning CDs, editing, blah blah blah, & I'll keep you posted, but for the moment, it looks like I'm keeping the Sony.
Also, I consulted several (what I consider to be) accomplished musicians/producers & they absolved me from the guilt of patronizing Sony. But we shall see.
Emily, here is an authentic definition of "clipping" that I've copied from CoolEdit's excellent help files - a gold mine of useful information if you have that application.
"Clipping is a phenomenon that occurs in digital audio when the amplitude value of a signal exceeds the maximum level that can be represented by the current bit resolution (i.e. 256 steps in 8-bit audio). This can happen when your source recording levels were simply too high. Clipping causes the signal to distort, and appears in the waveform display as a "chopping-off" of the top or bottom of the waveform. The audible result is a static-like distortion."
PS Further to the definition of "clipping", no-one in their right senses would use 8-bit audio (useful only for telephony and internet) - the results are dreadful. Stick with 16-bit (standard for almost all audio work), and use 32-bit if possible for editing purposes and convert back down to 16-bit when you're done editing. CoolEdit recommends 32-bit for editing purposes.
Hmmm maybe that was clipping! If so, that sucks. Yeah I really need to fool around with this thing b/c if a Sharp really fixes that automatically, it would be worth returning this one, b/c we were all disappointed when that song didn't take well, esp the fiddle players. :(
Thanks trevor for the info, most helpful, & yes Zina I will keep everyone posted.
I love CoolEdit. For the price, it's one of the best things ever. I've done a lot with it, from making mp3s to slowing stuff down to learn off of to doing design work for the Web. One of the best values for the money I ever bought and totally worth it.
MD Recorder, Mini Disks
MD Recorder, Mini Disks
I've heard some of you talk about these things. I'd like to know what kind you have and if you like it. My session cassettes stink, and everyone says the clarity with these MD recorders is great, and that you can hook up to your computer to dump into CoolEdit and such. What say you about these MD critters?
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Last Monday, Beth Leachman came over to our rehearsal and asked if we would record Cunla in a specific key and with certain breaks and repeats for her kids to dance and sing to at their next assembly. Deciding to see which we liked better, we set up a decent microphone on a boom mike and computer, and we also clipped Beth's mini-disc mike to the cord of the boomed mike. The sound on the mini-disc was superior to the computer.
One of these days I'm going to free up the cash to buy one of those things, it was awesome!
Zina
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
How many tapes of sessions do we record and study only never to listen to them again once the tune is learned? These MiniDisks are so good, you can burn CD's from them and people will think they were listening to "Session At Matt Malloy's". These recordings become your treasured audio jems. I'd highly recommend the stereo microphone! It really makes everything come alive.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Caoimghgin
"The sound on the mini-disc was superior to the computer"
That's because the A/D (analog-to-digital converter) in your average PC's sound card is krappy. The A/D in the minidisk recorder is much higher quality.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by glauber
Of course, you can buy a professional quality A/D (the cheapest good ones are just under $500 these days) for the computer, and then it would beat the minidisk easily.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by glauber
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
i bought a sharp mt877 minidisc recorder to use at the noel hill concertina school in 2001. since then, i've used to record sessions, the tunes i'm given to learn at my fiddle lesson, numerous performances at the celtic colours festival in cape breton ... the list could go on.
i use a single-point stereo mic and get sound quality that's usually quite good and always more than acceptable, often under difficult conditions. i worked in radio production for over 15 years, so i have a pretty critical ear.
i couldn't live without mine.
a good online source for mindisc products & info is minidisco.com. (i have no connection with them.)
sarah
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by eleyne
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Hi Katie.. Any of the SONY recorders are good. I have a 2 year old one now and it's the best musical tool I've ever had. I use a Sony MS 907 mic. and the sound quality is really good. The best thing about these recorders is that you can edit the disk content. Thus you can record a session and the delete the parts you don't want or chop the session up into multiple tracks and then reorder the tracks if you want. Track repeat is cool too for learning a tune. I highly recommend them.
Bob
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by bmcivor
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
I have a sony minidisc(don't ask what model). I find it's excellent for recording tunes etc. The sound is far better than a cassette, and i use it to record my tutor playing a tune which he then gets me to learn by ear. If you are having trouble with a certain part of a tune you can "mark" the section and every time you listen to it, it will automatically return to the start of that section.This makes it a lot less frustrating than having to constantly rewind a cassette, hopefully stopping at the point you want etc.
I have two minidiscs at the moment of tunes at different speeds which is a great help. I find having a tune recorded at slow, medium and normal session speed is a very handy.
I have also used it to record sessions and have used it to record Christy Moore live in concert. The playback quality is fantastic and thanks to it's editing function i have erased the parts i don't want like my girlfriend asking me "which one is Donal Lunny" etc.
I bought a tiny mic for it (130euro's) which is about the size of a plectrum and thus this makes concealing it so much easier.
Many of my friends have them, and between the various types the sony ones are by far the best. Also do not make the mistake i made, make sure and buy a long play (LP) one. This will give approx 300 minutes playback instead of the 74 mins on my one.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Help needed,
I'm not much of a computer buff so excuse my ignorance.i have tried to connect my mini disc to my PC's soundcard in order to burn CD's etc.. I have visited the local Sony centre to no avail. The Pc will not take anything from my minidisc. I plug it into the soundcard and it dos'nt register at all. The sony centre have said that due to copyright protection etc the sony equipment will not leave you burn a cd from a sony minidic player etc. I find this a pretty lame excuse but am none the wiser myself. Any suggestiopns?
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
I also have a Sony and swear by it. They're great because if you want to delete huge chunks of recording with just people talking and glasses clinking, you can wipe it in an instant. My particular model has several long play options (LP, LP2, LP4, Mono) in descending order of quality. LP4 just keeps going for ever. You can record a whole session if you make sure you've charged the batteries to full power beforehand. After you've edited the minidisc you can burn the whole lot onto a CD - maybe look up a few tune names on Henrik Norbeck's, and you've got a brand new CD to listen to!
You must go out and buy one immediately.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Dow
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Celtic 1234
I recently bought a minidisc recorder and it sounds like you have the same one or a similar one. (Mine is the SONY netMD N707.) I don't yet have a computer at home but I was wondering whether I would have a problem once I get one. (my next project up, after I finish learning how to use the minidisc recorder.)
I know you can't upload from the minidisc recorder to the PC quickly or digitally. However, it sounds like you can do this in real time, via analog transfer. Here's a bit of a discussion I found on the Mudcat site. This woman has the SONY N707. Initially she couldn't get anything on to the computer and was planning to return the recorder. However, after getting advice on this thread, she was apparently successful in transferring MD to PC. Here's her description of what she did, followed by a link to the entire thread if you want more details: (and I'd be curious myself to hear anyone else’s experience using this model to do MD to PC transfers.)
***************************************************************
I just succeeded in getting a minidisc recording into the computer! I attached one end of a male-to-male cable into the headphone jack of the mdr and the other end into the mic input of the computer. Then I started up Windows sound recorder on the pc, started playing the minidisc, and created a wav file on the pc, which I saved. Now it can be converted to mp3 or cda or whatever. With better sound recording software and editing software, this can do exactly what I was looking for.
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=53553#863833
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Zhenya
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
I've connected the mini disc via the analogue output to the soundcard and via the headphone jack to the mic input in the soundcard. All to no avail. I go into the section for external device and select "record from external" device and nothing happens. I've used different leads etc so its not a problem with the lead etc. The mini disc will play into portable speakers so there is nothing wrong with the headphone jack.
God knows how to get this to work
A friend of mine records from an record player onto Cd's using this method all the time, and he's tried also to no avail.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
That's what I do, but I use Cool Edit 2000, which allows you to mess about with the sound and accurately cut bits out to the nearest 0.001 second or something ridiculous. The people at my local Sony shop said that there are 2 basic kinds of recorder - ones that can download stuff from the net, and ones that don't. The ones that do are more expensive and newer. Mine doesn't. With mine I can only play stuff into the PC and then burn a CD of it, but then that's all I ever need to do anyway. My model is an MZ-R900 (320min), definitely not the latest coolest model, but it does everything I need it to do.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Dow
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Celtic 1234,
Which model minidisc recorder do you have?
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Zhenya
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Zhenya,
My minidisc model number is MZ-R55. I have it about three years so it's not the most modern, but surely that should'nt matter.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Do not buy a Sony. Buy a Sharp.
Why? Two very, very important reasons.
1) Because the motor noise on the Sonys is much louder than on the Sharps and is picked up very clearly by most microphones, especially if the mic is plugged right into the unit without a cable to distance it from the machine. I have the Sony MZ-909 unit, the highest end unit that could be bought before NetMD was released. Even with a microphone several feet away you can hear the whir and buzz of the motor, which is extremely obnoxious. Don't even try to plug a mic right into the side of the thing.
Sharp recorders, on the other hand are very, very quiet and a mic plugged right into the side of the unit will pick up almost no noise at all.
2) Recording volume control.
Sony units only let you use "automatic gain control" (or some similar name), which means that the recorder is supposed to automatically set the recording level to it's optimum setting, avoid clipping, etc. Unfortunately, this almost never works very well. In a session I ALWAYS get clipping, which is extremely obnoxious and has ruined many recordings.
Thankfully, the Sharp units have a manual recording volume feature, which lets you watch the meter and set it to the optimum position. This works much, much better for sessions and other high volume situations. My new recorder, the Sharp MD-DR7 from Minidisco.com works wonders when recording sessions and I recommend it highly.
Best,
Chris
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by ChrisLaughlin
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Well, if I ever drop my Sony and it breaks, I'll know what to buy next time. I've always been annoyed by that bloody whirring sound and assumed it was "part of the parcel" of having a minidisc player.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Dow
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
chris' points about sharp vs sony are well-taken. i picked the sharp largely because it allows me to set my own record levels. and, as chris says, the motor noise is almost inaudible. i often record with my mike plugged directly into the unit, rather than into the cable, and have noticed little motor noise on the recordings. i recently forgot to recharge the battery for my md and had it stop working at a fiddle lesson. i borrowed my teacher's sony (using my mic) and recorded the tune ... the motor noise from the sony was *extremely* audible on the recording.
another difference between the two brands, as i understand, is that the sony mds use a proprietary encoding format for their recordings, that makes it difficult for sony mds to 'talk' to computers and other audio devices unless you also buy proprietary sony connectors etc. (if i'm mistaken about this, someone please correct me)
sarah
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by eleyne
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks, & MP3 ?
Hello folks,
I've heard that there are now some MP3 recorders that allow recording straight from a microphone to a MP3. I don't know much about the sound quality you can get with that kind of device but that would be a great stuff to exchange session recordings with some others (as long as recordings are copyright free of course...).
Does anyone have more information about this ?
Rob
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by Robinson
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Rob, are you referring to those MP3 recorders that let you record and store 1000 tunes? I'd love putting session sets on one of those once I could play well enough to not need to go to certain points in a tune, etc. while learning them.
To anyone not familiar with Cool Edit. Get the demo to see if you like it, and choose the stretch and CD features (you have to choose 2 features to try each time you turn it on). You can take any tune and slow it to any speed while maintaining the pitch in order to hear the ornaments better and learn by ear. You can edit out things you don't want in there and add things you do. For instance, I like to add my voice stating the names of the tunes at the beginning of each in the slow speed version I make. Then on the fast version, I put all the names at the beginning of the set with my voice counting the tempo off. When learning, I loop the set so it repeats over and over. You can also record any tunes and put them together to make a custom set to play.
I recommend CoolEdit highly. I don't know if anything else compares or not because it's the first thing that was recommended to me.
# Posted on January 23rd 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Hi Katie,
Yes I was referring to MP3 recorders, some of them have hard disk that go up to 20Gb (you can store a lot of sessions on this...), but I heard there were some with a microphone input and a buffer memory which enable recording straight into a MP3 (Which is really cool for exchanging with some other fellow musicians). But I'm not sure about the recording rate (and therefore the quality) you get with this, especially compared to MD. If quality is comparable, then it means the death of MD...
Otherwise about Cool Edit, there is also a freeware called Pacemaker that is actually a plugin of Winamp (but does not work with the latest version, you have to pick the one before), which enables to listen to a CD or to a MP3 at low speed (goes down to 50%) without changing the pitch, or changing it if you want to (That's really convenient for a flute player when you only have a D flute...)
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Robinson
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Gonna go look at that Pacemaker. Thanks! Just read your bio, Robinson...Matt Molloy's??? I'm soooooooooooo jealous!
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Here is a very good article on MiniDisks. Good info!
http://www.suntimes.com/output/worktech/cst-fin-andy19.html
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Found the various Pacemaker downloads at:
http://www.sunpoint.net/~oparviai/pacemaker/
Shows a test version that goes with the newer Winamp v3.0
Does Pacemaker let you chop and edit or just slow temp, change pitch, change playback speed?
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Read that article Caoi mghgin posted if you want to understand the problems Celtic1234 and Zhenya mentioned...and possibly find a way to deal with them. Written where anyone can understand.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
I don't think Pacemaker let you chop and edit (at least in the version I have), it just slows the tempo of the CD or of the MP3 and the pitch. It's quite a small plugin actually, and I have to admit that the sound quality of the tune you get when you slow it down a lot is not good at all. But still it's very usefull, and free ! I found it really enjoyable when I used it at first, it's like speaking to Seamus Egan or Matt Molloy, Hey man ? Can't you stop playing that quick with your F sharp flute ? Is it because you don't want some others to steal your tune ? Bad boy ! first you take a D flute like anyone else, and second you sloooow down, OK, now we can play together !
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Robinson
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Celtic 1234 - I asked about the model because I wanted to see if it was the same as mine (to see what problems I might encounter.) I looked quickly on the web for the MZ-R55 to see what the differences were. One person commented that the cable that came with it didn’t allow MD to CD recording, but he bought a better cable and got it to work. Perhaps this would work with your MD to PC problems? (just one guess.)
Caoimghgin - Thanks for the link to that article; I read it. At lease it does sound like (in theory!) you can record from the MD to the PC.
I've tried a mike plugged directly into the side of the SONY N707, and then the same mike on a cable several inches away. (the manual says it must be at least 6 inches away.) So far, I haven't noticed much difference between the two. I've been very happy with the sound quality, but of course I'm comparing this to my old cassette recorder. I'll have to hear the Sharp recorder and see if it's different.
# Posted on January 24th 2003 by Zhenya
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
For those of you interested in mp3 recorders rather than minidisc recorders, you might find this info helpful. I have also provided a link to a great article about why minidisc recorders still can't upload digital copies of live recorded music to the computer.
Make sure you do your homework before buying an mp3 recorder. Mp3 recorders have a lot of future promise, but the majority, if not all of the current crop are half-baked, so to speak. Believe me, I want a good mp3 recorder just as much if not more than you do. The idea of recording thousands of hours onto something the size of a deck of cards seems like heaven to me.
To do your research I recommend the following:
The D-Music MP3 gear forum: http://www.dmusic.com/forum/gearup/
The MP3.com hardware forum:
http://msg.mp3.com/hardware/listnews/?cp=hw_main
Beware of the MP3.com editorial reviews - they give everything a good review. Don't buy anything until you've read at least a couple good reviews of the product, preferably from people on a forum rather than a paid reviewer. Also, make sure the mp3 recorder does EXACTLY what you want it to do, without the addition of other expensive and cumbersome doohickies. Creative Labs, for instance, just came out with a wired remote for their Nomad Jukebox, allowing direct to mp3 voice and music recording through the mic that is built into the remote... unfortunately it sucks big time: http://gear.ign.com/articles/383/383460p1.html
A lot of companies are going to be releasing hard-drive based mp3 players and recorders in the next month to six months, so if you don't mind waiting a bit you really might as well do so.
Also, if you're looking at minidisc, do keep in mind that minidisc recorders, even the new NetMD recorders, are extremely crippled in that you can not digitally transfer anything that you've recorded onto disc back onto computer, DAT, or anyother storage medium. The only way you can transfer your music to PC to burn it to CD (or whatever you plan to do with it) is through an analog cable, which is slow and results in loss of sound quality. I love my minidisc, but it has a long way to go and much to be desired (damn Sony and RIAA!!)
For a good article about why, after all this time, we still can't record a live concert or session with our minidisc recorder and then digitally transfer it to our PC, check out this very interesting WIRED article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/sony.html
This article sheds a lot of light on why we don't already have a plethora of hard-disk based mp3 players and why so few of them have a recording function, and why, worse yet, those recording functions are severely crippled, useful for low quality voice recording only.
I hope that helps you out.
Best,
Chris
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by ChrisLaughlin
Sony evil
This is no surprise. What would you expect, when the same company that sells you overpriced recordings is also the company you go to when you want to buy equipment that would allow you to make cheap high-quality recordings?
That's why as new media evolve, we're not necessarily left better off. Is MD better than CD? Yes, it's smaller, but is it better if you can't make copies of it? Is DVD better than VHS? Yes, it's better quality, but why can't i play the DVDs that my family sends me from Brazil? Just because the movie companies (there's Sony again, btw) don't want you to be able to buy a DVD from a different part of the world and see a movie before it gets released in theaters.
The one digital recording solution i know of is using a portable DAT recorder, and then doing a digital transfer to a CD burner. But now you're talking big bucks again. Maybe someone will make a decent A/D converter for one of the pocket or palm PCs available in the market.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by glauber
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
ChrisLaughlin, I went to Circuit City & Best Buy today, & neither of them carry Sharp MD recorders, & minidisco.com is out of stock of the model you recommend. (It's my birthday, I'm gonna splurge!) Uh, anyway, how easy is it to convert MD to CD with Sharp? Still gotta go analog?
Thanks,
Emily
PS Checked out most of your links, totally fascinating, great resources!
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Emily - You're most welcome. Yeah, Circuit City & Best Buy basically = lose. Also, Sharp has pretty much pulled out of the US market, so you're very unlikely to find a Sharp recorder in a brick and morter store here. Minidisco imports them from Japan to sell here.
As for converting MD to CD... yeah, unfortunately unless you want to buy a $1500, professional MD deck there is no way to go from MD to CD digitally.... you've just got to plug the analog cable into the MD and the computer, record with Soundforge or Cooledit or whatever you choose to use and hope it turns out okay. It's a real pain in the arse!
I provided some good links to mp3 information, but there are lots of good places to find out about minidisc as well. You might try http://www.minidisc.org
Also, call Minidisco back and ask them when they plan to have the DR7 back in stock... it might not be that long a wait and I'm sure they can reserve one for you. The other option is to order one from a business in Japan or Europe, but I'd avoid that if I had the choice.
Best,
Chris
# Posted on January 31st 2003 by ChrisLaughlin
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Additional note:
My Sony MZ-R70 MiniDisk recorder is in need of repair, so I spent the better part of two hours being shuffled along from one department to the next. It seems like a simple fix. The battery lid isn't latching properly and requires a bit of tape to keep it sealed and working.
I'll spare you the gory details, but apparently most (if not all) of the local Sony service techs refuse to replace the lid claiming it has to be shipped to the factory and the factory charges $117.99 flat fee for any work that they do. Good deal if your $2,000 video camera needs some work, but a really bad deal for a $30 battery lid replacement!
Looks like I'm in the market for a new MiniDisk recorder and I'll be looking at Sharp!
# Posted on February 1st 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
OK guilty confession.
I bought a Sony. The $200 one. With NetMD, Jukebox, car kit, etc etc, & a split stereo microphone. I forget the model # offhand.
Anyway, see, they have this 30 day money-back guarantee at Best Buy, & I wanted to record the contra dance Saturday night, so I figured what the heck, & busted it out. I'm sorry to report, the results were stunning. First an acoustic trial, just me on wooden flute & a guitar playing a couple sets, the mic way away from the recorder. Four tracks later, we plugged it directly into the sound system of the house, & it was like listening to a professional recording. It was really stunning, & no whirring or anything like that, & I strained considerably to detect anything. I haven't ventured into the manual recording level domain, b/c well frankly, I just walked in the door & haven't even looked at any of the software much less any of the bells & whistles this thing's got on it. I'm curious to know what you mean by clipping? I recorded a 10 musician ensemble, all of us miked, & wasn't sure where to place the bloody thing, so ended up placing it sort of in the midst of the proceedings, & it came out very well, for the fact that almost no effort or planning went into it, but would be interested to know if it's preferable to plug into a sound board or something for amplified performances? But back to clipping, yeah there was one tune that was sort of ruined by a skipping type thingy, but we attributed it to the general stomping (it was Homage de Edmund Parizeau & we were cooking) & the MD was perched on a music stand. But it could be this nefarious clipping you describe, which would suck.
Anyway, in the next week I'm gonna fool around with downloading analog, burning CDs, editing, blah blah blah, & I'll keep you posted, but for the moment, it looks like I'm keeping the Sony.
Also, I consulted several (what I consider to be) accomplished musicians/producers & they absolved me from the guilt of patronizing Sony. But we shall see.
# Posted on February 2nd 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Keep me posted, Emily -- I'm starting to save up now, and want to know how it goes for you with the Sony!
zls
# Posted on February 2nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Emily, here is an authentic definition of "clipping" that I've copied from CoolEdit's excellent help files - a gold mine of useful information if you have that application.
"Clipping is a phenomenon that occurs in digital audio when the amplitude value of a signal exceeds the maximum level that can be represented by the current bit resolution (i.e. 256 steps in 8-bit audio). This can happen when your source recording levels were simply too high. Clipping causes the signal to distort, and appears in the waveform display as a "chopping-off" of the top or bottom of the waveform. The audible result is a static-like distortion."
# Posted on February 2nd 2003 by lazyhound
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
PS Further to the definition of "clipping", no-one in their right senses would use 8-bit audio (useful only for telephony and internet) - the results are dreadful. Stick with 16-bit (standard for almost all audio work), and use 32-bit if possible for editing purposes and convert back down to 16-bit when you're done editing. CoolEdit recommends 32-bit for editing purposes.
# Posted on February 2nd 2003 by lazyhound
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
Hmmm maybe that was clipping! If so, that sucks. Yeah I really need to fool around with this thing b/c if a Sharp really fixes that automatically, it would be worth returning this one, b/c we were all disappointed when that song didn't take well, esp the fiddle players. :(
Thanks trevor for the info, most helpful, & yes Zina I will keep everyone posted.
# Posted on February 3rd 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: MD Recorder, Mini Disks
I love CoolEdit. For the price, it's one of the best things ever. I've done a lot with it, from making mp3s to slowing stuff down to learn off of to doing design work for the Web. One of the best values for the money I ever bought and totally worth it.
# Posted on February 3rd 2003 by Zina Lee