Everyone has a choice Harry, & if their own personal choice of career was connected to Irish Music, but it made them feel hopeless, dejected, discouraged etc., then surely they would simply change their career, wouldn't they?
If you are saying that your own personal daily work is connected to Irish Music & that it makes you personally feel hopeless, dejected & discouraged, then perhaps you need to change your career & go back to it just being a hobby for you.
However, I'm sure there are hundreds of people working within & around the Irish Music scene today who actually enjoy rich, fulfilling & very enjoyable careers.
I get where Harry is coming from, I don't think it was meant to knock working musicians ... but rather to play for the love of the music without any thoughts of anything BUT the music, just focused on it, not on the money or the pub owners, the audience, or the woes of touring or whatever.
That can be said about any traditional music or arts, but those who work in any of those fields, whether art, crafts or music, the only way you can make a decent (we hope) and consistent income, is to "work to order", give people what they want to hear or see, and sometimes it's not what you really want to be doing, so you do lose some enthusiasm and inspiration. Some opt to accept that because making a living at something they basically love, even if not all the time, may be preferable to taking a 9-5 job they really hate. To be "creative on demand" is a really hard thing, but may be better than doing something else.
Still, it takes out some of the enthusiasm. Anything can become a drag when you have to do it, maybe at times you don't feel the mood for it, or play tunes people want to hear instead of ones you love all night, but it's the trade off when you earn a living at it.
I work in visual arts, and it's amazing how many of my customers or former students think I have this amazing and fun job! It pays fairly well so I do it, but I do long for the day when I can afford to stop doing custom orders and just make what I want, when the mood strikes.... the work is always so much better.... and the music played for fun and the love of the music, with no other thought gives more enthusiasm and life to it.
Harry.... am I understanding this is what you meant?
Aye Nevins, but surely the whole of life is a "trade off", one way or another, isn't it?
I mean, the *Eutopia Session* just doesn't exist, does it?
Or is there perhaps a session somewhere, which only plays *your* favourite tunes & nobody else's, all night long.
Where the only instruments allowed to be played are the ones you like.
Where nobody is allowed to smoke, if you hate smoke.
or
Everybody must smoke, if you are a smoker .... etc etc
I don't imagine many people involved in the Irish Music scene think of their work in terms of doom & gloom.
Speaking of quotes, let's not forget - *The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence*?
Aye cos, but surely you can turn that round & say - Better a dedicated professional than a frustrated amateur ...
After all, we're only here once, so we should each use the little time we have in whichever way we feel most satisfying & productive. There are always going to those who follow their heads rather than their hearts but who's to say which is right or wrong for each of us?
Another quote - "Different Strokes for Different Folks"
Harry, This thread heading and opening statement is kind of cryptic. And unlike some (who will go unnamed), I don't want to put words in your mouth. What is it you are getting at here?
I mean just what I said. Its already generated some interesting comment. Maybe its justified its existence already. I would prattle on, but I don't want to.
OK Harry, but you can't deny that your term - "not a despondent career option" is a rather emotive one & also ambiguous too, not least in the sense that we don't know whether you are speaking of your own experiences or that just in general you have the perception that everyone's life in Irish Music is such?
Harry, I totally agree with you, I've experienced the same thing.
I had a weekly gig that sapped the joy completely from my music, so I stopped. Now I play in a fantastic session weekly at my local and there's a 2nd one monthly I love that’s a short drive away. I play the infrequent festival and fill in at gigs for friends if they request.
I'm lucky (or unlucky depending on your perspective) in that I have a career in Marketing that allows me to pursue my musical passion as an amateur and as a hobby. It works for me and makes me very happy. I'm incredibly musically fulfilled. When my sons are older and move out, and I no longer must be Mr. Professional-guy for the money, I plan on enjoying an early quasi-retirement as a semi-pro musician and full-time vagabond.
Now, my buddy and the leader of the weekly is with the pub's house band Sunday nights. They run through all the tired and hackneyed songs for the old Irish American folks of SWFL. Bless their souls, they love it, make money and have fun. It would drive me nuts, but to each their own. This band does Country Club gigs, Church gigs, gig gig gig, same 15 pub songs and a smattering of tunes to show off a bit.
Perhaps your own is more my style and less like my buddy's.
right Ptarm.... no utopia. I actually am very grateful for my work even if it means doing things I don't like a fair amount of the time.... still it is satisfying. I just meant I'd have more fun doing what I want when i feel like it.... but who wouldn't like that! I'd for sure feel more inspired that way.
It is what it is and that's different for people, some really get inspired to play better too i suppose if there is a big paycheck involved.... not so purist, but a reality.
I reckon that as long as the tunes keep popping into your head when you're not thinking about it, then it's a good thing. I suppose when that stops, it's time to move on .. change etc.
I used to agree with the quip that "an amateur is someone who keeps doing what they love even though the results are often disappointing."
Now I'm not so sure. I'm an amateur, a "hobbyist" at this music, but the results are thrilling, wonderful, an absolute kick in the pants.
And compared to playing music for a living (I did that at one point in my life), playing it just for fun and because *I* want to is nirvana. Give me a couple hours with my fiddle, some good friends, a pint or two, and a room with decent acoustics, and you can keep your gigs, paychecks, royalties, sound checks, etc.
Harry, do you teach much? (I know you do master classes etc. but have no idea how much or anything) Do you get a buzz from that?
Just curious, as I find when I'm imparting my knowledge base (albeit a different field) to others I get quite enthusiastic. If so, would it be worth focussing on that - or some other area of your professional field that grabs you - to get your enthusiasm levels back up?
SWFL Fiddler, it's interesting to hear you say that, as soon as you don't *have* to work your well paid 9 to 5 job, you will in fact choose to play much more music each week.
I'm sure most people here probably are tied into the norm, the modern rat race, what with the big mortgage, the 2.5 children to feed, cloth & put through Uni, keeping up with the neighbours etc etc. That's fine for them & I'm sure many love that whole lifestyle with their session thrown once a week & the odd festival each year.
However, that's not to say that the other side of the fence doesn't have it's good & bad points too. Sure, you are not always playing the tunes you want all the time, but who does? the money doesn't exactly roll in all the time, & sometimes you have to do the odd gig which doesn't exactly excite you, but how many of us have ended up in our weekly session when the music didn't quite go to script. There ain't no such thing as perfection, we all make our own choices.
Like you say Cheezy, we all have our own "take on things" - there ain't no absolute right & wrong in this game.
Now don't get me wrong Pt, I play plenty at home too, despite the complaints from my sons. I have to indoctrinate the next generation, of course.
The plan is to make enough dough so that I can retire into my own pub and have nothing but sessions all the time. Would it be too punny to call an ITM fantasy a 'pipe dream'? (insert groan here)
When the idea comes up of how something you love to do becomes a career option, and the question of how it might affect the thing you love to do, I'm reminded of my gardening experience. This experience had an effect on the way I look at my choices regarding Irish music playing as well as other things I love to do.
I was a somewhat talented gardener at one time, and my friends used to joke about how I must have a little old lady hidden somewhere who takes care of my garden. The truth was that I truly enjoyed gardening and my yard was a horticultural wonderland. When I went out to my mailbox neighbors would come up and ask about my yard and tell me how lovely it was.
Then I had an opportunity to take over a retiring gardener’s business and I thought it would be a good idea since I seemed to have a talent for it, and I loved doing it. So I would work all day making other people's yards beautiful, and I loved doing that, but when I got home gardening was the last thing I wanted to do. My own yard went to hell of course and my friends started asking if the old lady died. Neighbors thought I moved away, and my love for gardening was diminishing fast.
I'm guessing something along these lines might be Harry's concern.
"The plan is to make enough dough so that I can retire into my own pub ...." AH HA SWFL Fiddler - you confess! So you are planning to promote, on a professional level, the consumption of alcohol, eh? .... Oh dear! ..... & after all we've been through today, on that other thread!!
I know what you mean though about your sons. My son enjoyed my daily playing so much ........... he took up Jazz!
It's a funny old world, isn't it PB. Truth is, I had more or less the opposite gardening experience!
I worked as a professional gardener for a few years on estates on Speyside & Aberdeen & I loved every minute of it. I covered most aspects, greenhouse, vegetables, policies, hedges, lawns, herbaceous borders, annuals etc etc. As a full time gardener I worked a 5 day week, but of course certain little jobs had to be carried out over the weekend too, but I loved every minute of it.
Years later, I ended up in a regular 9 to 5 job, but I also had a third of an acre field beside my house which I turned into a garden. Now, that was just a hobby garden but I found that every waking minute I was drawn into that garden of mine, whether I wanted to or not, & I just could not satisfy my urge to whip this garden into shape & keep it that way.
As you know there is always something to do in a garden.
Anyway, the difference was that I found I could comfortably switch off when I was a professional gardener but not as a hobby gardener.
I know we're a' Jock Tamson's Bairns alright, but thank goodness we're a' different too!
Bliss, I'd be very surprised indeed if *anyone* was actually playing ITM full time .... for the money! Even for the high flyers I don't believe it's any kind of .. gravy train!
I did nt grow up with trad. so I was an outsider looking in for a long time and its different to what i thought it was going to be.It started as a hobby and has turned into a complete obsession its after taken over my life money or no money. The only thing that has turned me off it is the few big names who think they are to high and mighty to have manners.Alot of people look for and need aproval from these FEW and this makes thier heads even bigger.Music is a very personal part of life for me so it does nt matter if its pro. or just a hobby once im doing it for me.
P.S. I stress few because people like Colm Murphy ,Ringo and many more were a pleasure to meet
Some of the big names have probably had more than they can take of being described, analysed, spotted and mobbed by hordes of fans who think they're God!...
Eh, you can blame the recent explosion of Celtic Punk bands such as Dropkick Murphys, The Pogues, Flogging Molly and so on.
Riverdance is no exception as well. Even a few "traditional groups" such as the Dubliners and the Clancy Brothers created the image that tourists want to see.
I don't blame them. They make good money doing so and they helped to save Irish and Celtic traditionals; unfortunately, it bring in a lot of tourists that expect to see the stereotypical sessions -- in which are paid gigs, thus creating an image that Irish traditional should be close to professional.
It depends. You can make a reasonable/good living from Irish "Folk" music, a few tunes intermingled with songs but you would need to be on the road full time. Or perhaps in a holiday area, I remember being offered 8 months in Corfu, or in certain other areas.
But it would be work, so perhaps you would need another hobby, like the internet.
Harry, we had cross posted, and if I had seen your explaination of the O'Neill book title (which I hadn't been aware of) I would have understood better what your point was.
I had a friend who was a professional trumpet player in a military band who couldn't wait to retire and get a job programming computers. He felt that only then, in a situation where he would play for fun and not profit, could he begin to enjoy the trumpet again.
I myself dabble in earning money from music, and I can easily see how too many gigs could make it a real grind. So I remain a mostly amateur musician who almost earns enough to support the music 'habit,' which requires frequent expenses for new instruments, strings, disks, etc.
I once dreamed of becoming a full-time professional musician in part because I'm mostly self-taught, and nobody could deny that I was a "real musician" if somebody paid me to do it.
Then I met a few of the many many non-pro players of Irish music who simply leave a lot of pro rock/whatever players in the dust.
I also recently the headaches of dealing with copyright issues (to drag in something from a nearby thread), which definitely put a pall on the whole "pro" business. Nothing like the prospect of possibly getting sued to take the fun out of something. There's no law saying you can't play a tune, any tune, for your own enjoyment. (In the non-Taliban world, anyway.) And that's the main point, isn't it, to play good tunes?
So at this point, I would say that "going pro" is overrated. But maybe I will change my mind when the money, drugs, groupies, etc. really start flowing. (smirk)
p.s. I should add that I'm defining "pro" as "getting paid" rather than actually making a living at it. I'm *nowhere near* making a living at it, so I can't speak for the full-time experience.
Maybe, going pro means playing in a band with top-notch players, that really would be having your cake and eating it too.
"Irish Folk Music: A...."
"Irish Folk Music: A...."
I think I preferred Irish music when it was a 'fascinating hobby', not a despondent career option.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
...a misnomer - on this site anyway.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Everyone has a choice Harry, & if their own personal choice of career was connected to Irish Music, but it made them feel hopeless, dejected, discouraged etc., then surely they would simply change their career, wouldn't they?
If you are saying that your own personal daily work is connected to Irish Music & that it makes you personally feel hopeless, dejected & discouraged, then perhaps you need to change your career & go back to it just being a hobby for you.
However, I'm sure there are hundreds of people working within & around the Irish Music scene today who actually enjoy rich, fulfilling & very enjoyable careers.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
well ... from the perspective of being sat at work with Bob Marley of shuffle, and looking forward to going out for a tune tonight ...
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
"Irish Folk Music: A hole in your pocket if you're average, a hole in someone else's if you're good..."
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by nicholas
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
The cry of every angler who thought they could 'live the dream' by running their own tackle shop ....
(is this relevant? Ed.)
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ottery
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Great quote nicholas.
I get where Harry is coming from, I don't think it was meant to knock working musicians ... but rather to play for the love of the music without any thoughts of anything BUT the music, just focused on it, not on the money or the pub owners, the audience, or the woes of touring or whatever.
That can be said about any traditional music or arts, but those who work in any of those fields, whether art, crafts or music, the only way you can make a decent (we hope) and consistent income, is to "work to order", give people what they want to hear or see, and sometimes it's not what you really want to be doing, so you do lose some enthusiasm and inspiration. Some opt to accept that because making a living at something they basically love, even if not all the time, may be preferable to taking a 9-5 job they really hate. To be "creative on demand" is a really hard thing, but may be better than doing something else.
Still, it takes out some of the enthusiasm. Anything can become a drag when you have to do it, maybe at times you don't feel the mood for it, or play tunes people want to hear instead of ones you love all night, but it's the trade off when you earn a living at it.
I work in visual arts, and it's amazing how many of my customers or former students think I have this amazing and fun job! It pays fairly well so I do it, but I do long for the day when I can afford to stop doing custom orders and just make what I want, when the mood strikes.... the work is always so much better.... and the music played for fun and the love of the music, with no other thought gives more enthusiasm and life to it.
Harry.... am I understanding this is what you meant?
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Aye Nevins, but surely the whole of life is a "trade off", one way or another, isn't it?
I mean, the *Eutopia Session* just doesn't exist, does it?
Or is there perhaps a session somewhere, which only plays *your* favourite tunes & nobody else's, all night long.
Where the only instruments allowed to be played are the ones you like.
Where nobody is allowed to smoke, if you hate smoke.
or
Everybody must smoke, if you are a smoker .... etc etc
I don't imagine many people involved in the Irish Music scene think of their work in terms of doom & gloom.
Speaking of quotes, let's not forget - *The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence*?
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Better a dedicated amateur than a cynical professional....
Dont give up your day job!
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by cos
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Jaysus, Dick.
You really are full of it.
Regards,
H.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Cos,
Yes, that's the gist put another way I suppose.
I have played/ toured with several celebrated professional troupes, but what would I know, right?
Regards,
H.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Aye cos, but surely you can turn that round & say - Better a dedicated professional than a frustrated amateur ...
After all, we're only here once, so we should each use the little time we have in whichever way we feel most satisfying & productive. There are always going to those who follow their heads rather than their hearts but who's to say which is right or wrong for each of us?
Another quote - "Different Strokes for Different Folks"
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Have you been watching Dr. Phil?
Who's saying what is right or wrong for each of us? Little voices in the head again?
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Just trying to gently unravel the *threads* of yet another ambiguous thread heading, Harry!
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
If we retain an open mind ambiguity won't present any problem. The world is actually quite an ambiguous place underneath it all.
Anyway, the title and content of this thread clearly references the title of O'Niell's famous book "Irish Folk Music - A Fascinating Hobby".
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Harry, This thread heading and opening statement is kind of cryptic. And unlike some (who will go unnamed), I don't want to put words in your mouth. What is it you are getting at here?
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Al,
I mean just what I said. Its already generated some interesting comment. Maybe its justified its existence already. I would prattle on, but I don't want to.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
OK Harry, but you can't deny that your term - "not a despondent career option" is a rather emotive one & also ambiguous too, not least in the sense that we don't know whether you are speaking of your own experiences or that just in general you have the perception that everyone's life in Irish Music is such?
See what I mean?
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
"I would prattle on, but I don't want to." ...... Aye it's easy to spot those who are *sneaking* on here, while at work!
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Maybe you missed the start of that very unambiguous sentence where I stated "I think...".
Regards,
H.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
"This thread heading and opening statement is kind of cryptic." - Hmmmm thanks Al. Good to know I'm not the only one .........
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Sounds like one too many Guiness and easy access to the internet. A troubling combination.
Music as a profession whether ITM or other falls into the 'to thine own self be true" category. If you love it, do it. Otherwise find a day job.
But if you aren't willing to put up with it, don't kvetch at the world because you're depressed. They make meds to fix that.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by zippydw
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
What a knob.
Regards,
H.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Harry, I totally agree with you, I've experienced the same thing.
I had a weekly gig that sapped the joy completely from my music, so I stopped. Now I play in a fantastic session weekly at my local and there's a 2nd one monthly I love that’s a short drive away. I play the infrequent festival and fill in at gigs for friends if they request.
I'm lucky (or unlucky depending on your perspective) in that I have a career in Marketing that allows me to pursue my musical passion as an amateur and as a hobby. It works for me and makes me very happy. I'm incredibly musically fulfilled. When my sons are older and move out, and I no longer must be Mr. Professional-guy for the money, I plan on enjoying an early quasi-retirement as a semi-pro musician and full-time vagabond.
Now, my buddy and the leader of the weekly is with the pub's house band Sunday nights. They run through all the tired and hackneyed songs for the old Irish American folks of SWFL. Bless their souls, they love it, make money and have fun. It would drive me nuts, but to each their own. This band does Country Club gigs, Church gigs, gig gig gig, same 15 pub songs and a smattering of tunes to show off a bit.
Perhaps your own is more my style and less like my buddy's.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
right Ptarm.... no utopia. I actually am very grateful for my work even if it means doing things I don't like a fair amount of the time.... still it is satisfying. I just meant I'd have more fun doing what I want when i feel like it.... but who wouldn't like that! I'd for sure feel more inspired that way.
It is what it is and that's different for people, some really get inspired to play better too i suppose if there is a big paycheck involved.... not so purist, but a reality.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Yes, some people are able to keep interest levels up no matter how much they play. I play less now and enjoy it more.
Is that clear enough for the droolers? :-p
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
...And then there are people who play a lot professionally and who completely burn their interest levels out. Their choice and all that...
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Harry B
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
I reckon that as long as the tunes keep popping into your head when you're not thinking about it, then it's a good thing. I suppose when that stops, it's time to move on .. change etc.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
I used to agree with the quip that "an amateur is someone who keeps doing what they love even though the results are often disappointing."
Now I'm not so sure. I'm an amateur, a "hobbyist" at this music, but the results are thrilling, wonderful, an absolute kick in the pants.
And compared to playing music for a living (I did that at one point in my life), playing it just for fun and because *I* want to is nirvana. Give me a couple hours with my fiddle, some good friends, a pint or two, and a room with decent acoustics, and you can keep your gigs, paychecks, royalties, sound checks, etc.
But that's just my take on things.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Will CPT
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Harry, do you teach much? (I know you do master classes etc. but have no idea how much or anything) Do you get a buzz from that?
Just curious, as I find when I'm imparting my knowledge base (albeit a different field) to others I get quite enthusiastic. If so, would it be worth focussing on that - or some other area of your professional field that grabs you - to get your enthusiasm levels back up?
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
SWFL Fiddler, it's interesting to hear you say that, as soon as you don't *have* to work your well paid 9 to 5 job, you will in fact choose to play much more music each week.
I'm sure most people here probably are tied into the norm, the modern rat race, what with the big mortgage, the 2.5 children to feed, cloth & put through Uni, keeping up with the neighbours etc etc. That's fine for them & I'm sure many love that whole lifestyle with their session thrown once a week & the odd festival each year.
However, that's not to say that the other side of the fence doesn't have it's good & bad points too. Sure, you are not always playing the tunes you want all the time, but who does? the money doesn't exactly roll in all the time, & sometimes you have to do the odd gig which doesn't exactly excite you, but how many of us have ended up in our weekly session when the music didn't quite go to script. There ain't no such thing as perfection, we all make our own choices.
Like you say Cheezy, we all have our own "take on things" - there ain't no absolute right & wrong in this game.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Now don't get me wrong Pt, I play plenty at home too, despite the complaints from my sons. I have to indoctrinate the next generation, of course.
The plan is to make enough dough so that I can retire into my own pub and have nothing but sessions all the time. Would it be too punny to call an ITM fantasy a 'pipe dream'? (insert groan here)
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
When the idea comes up of how something you love to do becomes a career option, and the question of how it might affect the thing you love to do, I'm reminded of my gardening experience. This experience had an effect on the way I look at my choices regarding Irish music playing as well as other things I love to do.
I was a somewhat talented gardener at one time, and my friends used to joke about how I must have a little old lady hidden somewhere who takes care of my garden. The truth was that I truly enjoyed gardening and my yard was a horticultural wonderland. When I went out to my mailbox neighbors would come up and ask about my yard and tell me how lovely it was.
Then I had an opportunity to take over a retiring gardener’s business and I thought it would be a good idea since I seemed to have a talent for it, and I loved doing it. So I would work all day making other people's yards beautiful, and I loved doing that, but when I got home gardening was the last thing I wanted to do. My own yard went to hell of course and my friends started asking if the old lady died. Neighbors thought I moved away, and my love for gardening was diminishing fast.
I'm guessing something along these lines might be Harry's concern.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
It all boils down to whether or not you enjoy performing.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Dow
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
"The plan is to make enough dough so that I can retire into my own pub ...." AH HA SWFL Fiddler - you confess! So you are planning to promote, on a professional level, the consumption of alcohol, eh? .... Oh dear! ..... & after all we've been through today, on that other thread!!
I know what you mean though about your sons. My son enjoyed my daily playing so much ........... he took up Jazz!
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
It's a funny old world, isn't it PB. Truth is, I had more or less the opposite gardening experience!
I worked as a professional gardener for a few years on estates on Speyside & Aberdeen & I loved every minute of it. I covered most aspects, greenhouse, vegetables, policies, hedges, lawns, herbaceous borders, annuals etc etc. As a full time gardener I worked a 5 day week, but of course certain little jobs had to be carried out over the weekend too, but I loved every minute of it.
Years later, I ended up in a regular 9 to 5 job, but I also had a third of an acre field beside my house which I turned into a garden. Now, that was just a hobby garden but I found that every waking minute I was drawn into that garden of mine, whether I wanted to or not, & I just could not satisfy my urge to whip this garden into shape & keep it that way.
As you know there is always something to do in a garden.
Anyway, the difference was that I found I could comfortably switch off when I was a professional gardener but not as a hobby gardener.
I know we're a' Jock Tamson's Bairns alright, but thank goodness we're a' different too!
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
If it gets to the stage where it is "just a job", well the money may be good but the enjoyment stops. Finding a balance may be difficult.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Bliss, I'd be very surprised indeed if *anyone* was actually playing ITM full time .... for the money! Even for the high flyers I don't believe it's any kind of .. gravy train!
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
I did nt grow up with trad. so I was an outsider looking in for a long time and its different to what i thought it was going to be.It started as a hobby and has turned into a complete obsession its after taken over my life money or no money. The only thing that has turned me off it is the few big names who think they are to high and mighty to have manners.Alot of people look for and need aproval from these FEW and this makes thier heads even bigger.Music is a very personal part of life for me so it does nt matter if its pro. or just a hobby once im doing it for me.
P.S. I stress few because people like Colm Murphy ,Ringo and many more were a pleasure to meet
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Some of the big names have probably had more than they can take of being described, analysed, spotted and mobbed by hordes of fans who think they're God!...
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by nicholas
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Eh, you can blame the recent explosion of Celtic Punk bands such as Dropkick Murphys, The Pogues, Flogging Molly and so on.
Riverdance is no exception as well. Even a few "traditional groups" such as the Dubliners and the Clancy Brothers created the image that tourists want to see.
I don't blame them. They make good money doing so and they helped to save Irish and Celtic traditionals; unfortunately, it bring in a lot of tourists that expect to see the stereotypical sessions -- in which are paid gigs, thus creating an image that Irish traditional should be close to professional.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by TheBloodyIrish
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
The money must be in CD sales and videos is all I can say.
It sure isn't in performing.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by zippydw
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
It depends. You can make a reasonable/good living from Irish "Folk" music, a few tunes intermingled with songs but you would need to be on the road full time. Or perhaps in a holiday area, I remember being offered 8 months in Corfu, or in certain other areas.
But it would be work, so perhaps you would need another hobby, like the internet.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
Harry, we had cross posted, and if I had seen your explaination of the O'Neill book title (which I hadn't been aware of) I would have understood better what your point was.
I had a friend who was a professional trumpet player in a military band who couldn't wait to retire and get a job programming computers. He felt that only then, in a situation where he would play for fun and not profit, could he begin to enjoy the trumpet again.
I myself dabble in earning money from music, and I can easily see how too many gigs could make it a real grind. So I remain a mostly amateur musician who almost earns enough to support the music 'habit,' which requires frequent expenses for new instruments, strings, disks, etc.
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
I once dreamed of becoming a full-time professional musician in part because I'm mostly self-taught, and nobody could deny that I was a "real musician" if somebody paid me to do it.
Then I met a few of the many many non-pro players of Irish music who simply leave a lot of pro rock/whatever players in the dust.
I also recently the headaches of dealing with copyright issues (to drag in something from a nearby thread), which definitely put a pall on the whole "pro" business. Nothing like the prospect of possibly getting sued to take the fun out of something. There's no law saying you can't play a tune, any tune, for your own enjoyment. (In the non-Taliban world, anyway.) And that's the main point, isn't it, to play good tunes?
So at this point, I would say that "going pro" is overrated. But maybe I will change my mind when the money, drugs, groupies, etc. really start flowing. (smirk)
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by mickray
Re: "Irish Folk Music: A...."
p.s. I should add that I'm defining "pro" as "getting paid" rather than actually making a living at it. I'm *nowhere near* making a living at it, so I can't speak for the full-time experience.
Maybe, going pro means playing in a band with top-notch players, that really would be having your cake and eating it too.
They say it's good to have a dream..... ;>}
# Posted on April 3rd 2007 by mickray