Dow made an analogy on a neighbouring thread, and suddenly reminded me of something I've been meaning to post for ages.
This is what he said:
"Learning this music is like learning a language."
and
"You can learn a language out of a book, but it's going to sound awfully odd to a native speaker. You won't be fluent enough to play about with the language unless you immerse yourself in it aurally until you can produce the same yourself. You'll probably not be able to pronounce the words very well and native speakers will be able to tell you haven't spent any time amongst native speakers."
So, just like I have (if you listen hard enough) a vaguely West-country stroke Welsh accent with elements of Buxton, having a Cornish mother, a father from Buxton and having spent most of my life until fairly recently in Wales ...
Do I - and everyone else - similarly have a musical 'accent' (no pun intended, which is why I used 'dialect' for the subject)?
Can a 'native' speaker of ITM, or anyone else for that matter, tell where folks are from by their playing?
Before dismissing this notion as just plain daft, I would ask people to think of the regional styles within Ireland itself - might there be 'regional styles' that extend a lot further afield and place us by our origin?
See, I think there's something more basic at work. I think it *is* more akin to language than you imply. Just as I don't think the Liverpool accent - or Manchester, or Devon or whatever - came about because of influential speakers and people imitating them.
Also, what about the differences in dance styles? To what extent did that influence the music from place to place?
(I mean, were reels for example danced much differently from one part of Ireland to another, or were they fairly standardised? Looking at regional differences in folk dancing here in the United States, I would expect they might vary greatly.)
I have no difficulty believing that there would be regional accents to a person's playing. Especially given the strong aural tradition. I also have little difficulty beliving that a person that learned ITM primarily from dots might have an accent. Unforutnately I have neither the experience nor the field research to back it up.
At least, that's the dialect that I aspire to speak when i grow up!
But, Mark's point is well taken. You're too familiar with your own dialect. People from Alabama, for instance, don't hear their own accent - it sounds normal to them, but they notice other peoples' accents.
Add to that the rather global society we live in, where I can listen to numerous different dialects of ITM in one sitting (via recording, or even live sometimes), I think the dialects are bound to blur quite a bit.
The "regional styles" exist solely because that's what people listen to, so that's how they play. I don't think anyone ever sat down and said "Hmmm, let's develop a new style of playing this music specifically for Donegal, you know, to set us apart from those Sligo freaks, whom we all hate..."
So the fact that people world-wide (and in Ireland) can readily access recordings of the different styles will certainly contribute to the blending the styles a lot more.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I guess it depends on your perspective. It's a living tradition, it is bound to change over time, as it always has.
I agree that, with recording and broadcasting technology etc etc, styles would seem likely to blur.
I also agree that we probably aren't aware of our own 'accent'. But I reckon others may be aware of it, even if we ourselves aren't.
Interesting thing about 'blurring' of styles/accents, though, it doesn't seem to be happening to the linguistic version of this, so maybe musical 'accents' will carry on regardless?
And I wasn't just thinking about the regional musical 'accents' *within* Ireland. What about an American 'accent' for instance? Now, I reckon I've come across that one ...
With the rise of "received pronunciation" in our broadcasts in the UK in the 1930s and onward, there was a feeling that it would be the death of regional accents. It didn't have that effect then - so on that basis despite our more global culture, regional accents will continue to thrive.
Interesting thought, Reverend - although they might blur together and mix and evolve, I think accents might be an unconscious way of saying we belong to a certain group - that we play this tune this way rather than the other. If there's anyone on this list who's studied this, it would be interesting to hear what theories there are about this, and whether it translates to music...
"Interesting thing about 'blurring' of styles/accents, though, it doesn't seem to be happening to the linguistic version of this, so maybe musical 'accents' will carry on regardless?"
I think the difference is that we don't tend to listen to as many recordings of people talking with different accents (other than maybe the odd Monty Python album)
But there are a lot of people in other parts of the world that are learning their Irish style from recordings, simply because they don't have enough good players around them to listen to...
And I would certainly say that there is an American "accent" in Irish music. Because there are a lot of American players that record and are popular (i.e. Liz Carrol. And while Liz is awesome, she doesn't sound particularly Irish to me - she sounds like Liz).
"I think accents might be an unconscious way of saying we belong to a certain group"
Right... like for instance, me saying "I aspire to play in a Clare style". There are certainly people that consciously try to carry on particular "dialects" within the music.
But just the very fact that you're playing it will have some effect on it. I don't think it's possible (or necessary) to "perfectly preserve" a style of playing. The regional styles themselves may be able to stay different from each other, but they're going to evolve on their own as well. Which is good! Because if we were successful in preserving it exactly how it is right now, then it would be a dead tradition.
My musical accent is probably 80s arena-rock. ;-( but perhaps a core of American old-timey and folk from my Dad. Since I’ve hooked up with this ITM crowd I think it’s more Clare/Galway due to some of the key players in my area coming from there. At least as far as repertoire and style the pantheon of gods for the players I’m learning from is Paddy Canny, Junior Crehan, PJ and Martin, Patrick Ourceau.
FWIW – I have no idea if this is a sign of growing diddly fluency, it’s just kinda interesting to me: a couple years ago I liked harmonizing with the third when I’d do double stops, like ending on a G, I’d add a bottom B. I don’t seem to do that any more. Don’t care for the sound. I still like the octave unison, though.
What do you mean you never notice your own accent, whether linguistically or musically? Once you spend any appreciable time in an environment where your accent is not the commonly spoken/played accent, you'll become much more aware of how idiosyncratic your own accent really is. You don't necessarily lose your contact through contact with others, but you certainly notice it a lot more.
I find that when stay away from home for a while, such as when we're on a tour in the company of others who I can freely talk to, I notice all our accents changing a bit - not just in a "taking the p*ss" kind of way, but containing some of the figures of speech as well as the actual pronunciation, of the place where we're staying.
But I agree that it's only when you get out of your own milieu that you get to recognise your own dialect - almost, actually, when you get back, rather than when you're still away from "home".
When I was 8 I spent a few years in an American school near Washington DC. My accent apparently changed between school and my (English) home. However, I just adapted, and I only had it drawn to my attention when I got to do a bit of public speaking on stage at a school event there, and my parents said they were shocked to hear how differently I spoke. It never occurred to me that I had a different speech-style for school and for home. I guess at that age, it was all about fitting in.
I and others have been drawing an analogy between the way spoken dialects might be attached to people and places, but I wonder also if there's a correlation between the music and the speech dialect? Does a hard accent also have a hard playing style? Is there a correlation between the "lilt" of speech and music in a geographical area? Between Northern and Southern styles of speaking and playing?
Mark, I had a similar situation. I lived in Australia for a year as a child. When I got there, my new friends hassled me for talking "flat", and when I returned to the US, my friends here hassled me for talking with an accent!
Still, with the music, I find it somewhat difficult to identify what is different about my playing than certain regional styles. Having just gotten back from two weeks playing in Ireland, I found it very "comfortable" to be coming back to my home sessions. And while playing in Ireland was somewhat uncomfortable at times, I wasn't able to pinpoint what the differences actually were. The candidates might be differences in speed, swing, lift, or ornamentation. But when I concentrated on any one of those while playing in Ireland, it didn't seem like it was really different than how we play here in most cases.
So in that regard, I still find it difficult to "notice my own accent". (However, I do admit that two weeks might not count as "appreciable time", smw)
I've been told that my linguistic accent is mostly North Somerset, with touch of Welsh which apparently becomes more pronounced when I'm in Wales, just as my wife's normally inconspicuous Cork accent when in Bristol blossoms when she visits her relatives in Cork. Although what the Cork accent is going to be like in a generation's time is difficult to imagine - there are about 20,000 Polish immigrants now living in Cork,and many thousand more immigrants from other parts of Eastern Europe, plus others from other parts of the World.
My Irish musical accent/dialect? I haven't the faintest idea, except that it must be influenced by all the Bristol sessions I've been going to for the last six years, and the mixture of styles I hear regularly from a number of fine players. I do far more playing live with others than listening to recordings, so I don't think I'm influenced much, if at all, by CDs.
Don't think I have a musical accent on flute. I have been trying to achieve a Cork/Kerry "twist" for playing the very limited number of polkas and slides I have on the box. I believe that's the only way to play them to bring them to life.
But so far this is proving to be an arduous intractable process.
This topic reminds me of a radio program on bird dialects i heard at night on my way home from session. Arriving home I sat in the car for another half-hour to listen to the fascinating story on how a researcher had studied a specific bird species, their dialects, and the impact on "social life" among birds.
This particular bird species develops a very specific and distinct dialect of singing which can be related to a rather narrow local area that they live in. Any bird wanting to fit in has to adapt to the regional style of singing and develop a melody in line with the regional style.
Another aspect of the story is why the birds sing: It turns out it is only the male birds that sing, and they do it to get dates... If they don't sing in tune and with the local dialect, they won't get any chicks.......
.
I have only ever heard ITM played in South London. (I don’t listen to recordings of ITM- they didn’t in the olden times! - I’m trying to learn just by listening and playing at sessions)
I hear lots of musicians playing many, many tunes and they are all apparently played with the same “accent”. The difference between the styles of the Irish counties et cetera is rather lost when one hears this “cosmopolitan” bunch playing. The anoraks sometimes say, “That’s a Clare” tune, but I can’t hear the difference. The tunes as played where I hear them, I suppose, all now have a South London accent.
Before recordings/ global communication, one assumes the players of “ITM” would have only heard local musicians and so a local style/ dialect/ accent would have developed. It happens in all musical genres doesn’t it? But we live in a world now where we aren’t isolated and we pick up stuff from all over.
And anyway, even the accent of a particular place evolves and changes generationally n’est que pas? My father (born 1915, Elephant & Castle) had an accent that was old skool “Owl, gorl blimey, ‘ello guvnor” type of thing, I have a London/ Grammar School/ Keith Richards way of talking (“Like is that cat gonna play the facking tune or what, Man?”) and my son speaks in the way that all people under thirty do now with more than a hint of Patois/ Hip Hop/ Indian Sub-continent influence “Lie down gyall let me push it oop, y’know wodeye meen? Wotteffah! Let’s eet som swveeties”. And who knows how London was spoken in the time Pepys or Chaucer for instance.
So what you’re seeing in ITM is the inevitable change bought on by time and the influence of the media. I suppose one day ITM will have one global accent, as will all other types of music (and everything else! - language, food, fashion, et cetera, et cetera…). So the museum curators who want to preserve every tune in its original form, setting and accent are rather on a loser unless they go and live in a remote village with no ‘phone, TV, radio, internet, written music and only ever play with the same six or seven players for ever! (but then, of course, their sons and daughters will take and change it !!)
I doubt that the analogy between music and language is infalliable. You acquire languages without any conscious effort when you are a kid. But do you learn to play a certain type of music without consicous effort? A language is certainly regionalluy divided into accents, but is traditional Irish music clearly divided into so-called "regional styles"?
As many has pointed out, there has been a lot of variety even in a "regional style". Oft-quoted examples are Sligo fiddle masters Coleman, Morrison, and Killoran, and East Galway fluters Paddy Carty and Mike Rafferty. I'd say there's no musical "accent" as such. The playing style of this music is much more individualistic.
I have a NE US accent. Little bit of swing to some phrases, little more backbeat, little less ornamentation, hints of old time and music hall. Here, there are many folks with styles brought across from Ireland, a goodly number out of the Sligo-influenced NY crowd, but also Scot and Nova Scotia fiddlers, and quite a few with Quebequois influence. So even though we play Irish music, there are definite accents from other sources mixed in.
I have been noticing that there are definitely styles here in America. When people come up from Chicago they have a 'Chicago Style'. There is a 'Twin Cities' style and a 'Milwaukee' and a 'Winnipeg' style. You can hear it when they play their party piece but then, just like when you blend in with the lingual accent, people will blend in with the musical accent. This isn’t surprising when you think that these people are training themselves to play what they hear. An accent is influenced by the tunes, instrumentation, where the core members are from, many things. But when people play together a lot they develop a style or ‘accent’. My daughter just moved to Oklahoma last week and when I spoke to her yesterday she already had the Okie drawl. If you have developed your melodic memory, chorusing, and blending skills, as you do in music, this will happen.
Well I'm from Donegal, and obviously Donegal, being the home of some of the greatest Irish musicians around, has it's own style of music, especially the Donegal fiddle.
What's your diddley dialect?
What's your diddley dialect?
Dow made an analogy on a neighbouring thread, and suddenly reminded me of something I've been meaning to post for ages.
This is what he said:
"Learning this music is like learning a language."
and
"You can learn a language out of a book, but it's going to sound awfully odd to a native speaker. You won't be fluent enough to play about with the language unless you immerse yourself in it aurally until you can produce the same yourself. You'll probably not be able to pronounce the words very well and native speakers will be able to tell you haven't spent any time amongst native speakers."
So, just like I have (if you listen hard enough) a vaguely West-country stroke Welsh accent with elements of Buxton, having a Cornish mother, a father from Buxton and having spent most of my life until fairly recently in Wales ...
Do I - and everyone else - similarly have a musical 'accent' (no pun intended, which is why I used 'dialect' for the subject)?
Can a 'native' speaker of ITM, or anyone else for that matter, tell where folks are from by their playing?
Before dismissing this notion as just plain daft, I would ask people to think of the regional styles within Ireland itself - might there be 'regional styles' that extend a lot further afield and place us by our origin?
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I think that strong regional styles only come about because of influential players and people trying to imitate them.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Dow
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
See, I think there's something more basic at work. I think it *is* more akin to language than you imply. Just as I don't think the Liverpool accent - or Manchester, or Devon or whatever - came about because of influential speakers and people imitating them.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
Is it possible to know what your own dialect / accent is? Surely it's too familiar to you.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
Also, what about the differences in dance styles? To what extent did that influence the music from place to place?
(I mean, were reels for example danced much differently from one part of Ireland to another, or were they fairly standardised? Looking at regional differences in folk dancing here in the United States, I would expect they might vary greatly.)
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Rook
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I have no difficulty believing that there would be regional accents to a person's playing. Especially given the strong aural tradition. I also have little difficulty beliving that a person that learned ITM primarily from dots might have an accent. Unforutnately I have neither the experience nor the field research to back it up.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by matan_fiddler
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I speak Clare, at about a 3rd grade level...
At least, that's the dialect that I aspire to speak when i grow up!
But, Mark's point is well taken. You're too familiar with your own dialect. People from Alabama, for instance, don't hear their own accent - it sounds normal to them, but they notice other peoples' accents.
Add to that the rather global society we live in, where I can listen to numerous different dialects of ITM in one sitting (via recording, or even live sometimes), I think the dialects are bound to blur quite a bit.
The "regional styles" exist solely because that's what people listen to, so that's how they play. I don't think anyone ever sat down and said "Hmmm, let's develop a new style of playing this music specifically for Donegal, you know, to set us apart from those Sligo freaks, whom we all hate..."
So the fact that people world-wide (and in Ireland) can readily access recordings of the different styles will certainly contribute to the blending the styles a lot more.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I guess it depends on your perspective. It's a living tradition, it is bound to change over time, as it always has.
Pete
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Reverend
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I agree that, with recording and broadcasting technology etc etc, styles would seem likely to blur.
I also agree that we probably aren't aware of our own 'accent'. But I reckon others may be aware of it, even if we ourselves aren't.
Interesting thing about 'blurring' of styles/accents, though, it doesn't seem to be happening to the linguistic version of this, so maybe musical 'accents' will carry on regardless?
And I wasn't just thinking about the regional musical 'accents' *within* Ireland. What about an American 'accent' for instance? Now, I reckon I've come across that one ...
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
With the rise of "received pronunciation" in our broadcasts in the UK in the 1930s and onward, there was a feeling that it would be the death of regional accents. It didn't have that effect then - so on that basis despite our more global culture, regional accents will continue to thrive.
Interesting thought, Reverend - although they might blur together and mix and evolve, I think accents might be an unconscious way of saying we belong to a certain group - that we play this tune this way rather than the other. If there's anyone on this list who's studied this, it would be interesting to hear what theories there are about this, and whether it translates to music...
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
"Interesting thing about 'blurring' of styles/accents, though, it doesn't seem to be happening to the linguistic version of this, so maybe musical 'accents' will carry on regardless?"
I think the difference is that we don't tend to listen to as many recordings of people talking with different accents (other than maybe the odd Monty Python album)
But there are a lot of people in other parts of the world that are learning their Irish style from recordings, simply because they don't have enough good players around them to listen to...
And I would certainly say that there is an American "accent" in Irish music. Because there are a lot of American players that record and are popular (i.e. Liz Carrol. And while Liz is awesome, she doesn't sound particularly Irish to me - she sounds like Liz).
Pete
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Reverend
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
"I think accents might be an unconscious way of saying we belong to a certain group"
Right... like for instance, me saying "I aspire to play in a Clare style". There are certainly people that consciously try to carry on particular "dialects" within the music.
But just the very fact that you're playing it will have some effect on it. I don't think it's possible (or necessary) to "perfectly preserve" a style of playing. The regional styles themselves may be able to stay different from each other, but they're going to evolve on their own as well. Which is good! Because if we were successful in preserving it exactly how it is right now, then it would be a dead tradition.
Pete
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Reverend
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
My musical accent is probably 80s arena-rock. ;-( but perhaps a core of American old-timey and folk from my Dad. Since I’ve hooked up with this ITM crowd I think it’s more Clare/Galway due to some of the key players in my area coming from there. At least as far as repertoire and style the pantheon of gods for the players I’m learning from is Paddy Canny, Junior Crehan, PJ and Martin, Patrick Ourceau.
FWIW – I have no idea if this is a sign of growing diddly fluency, it’s just kinda interesting to me: a couple years ago I liked harmonizing with the third when I’d do double stops, like ending on a G, I’d add a bottom B. I don’t seem to do that any more. Don’t care for the sound. I still like the octave unison, though.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by fidkid
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
What do you mean you never notice your own accent, whether linguistically or musically? Once you spend any appreciable time in an environment where your accent is not the commonly spoken/played accent, you'll become much more aware of how idiosyncratic your own accent really is. You don't necessarily lose your contact through contact with others, but you certainly notice it a lot more.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by smw
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I find that when stay away from home for a while, such as when we're on a tour in the company of others who I can freely talk to, I notice all our accents changing a bit - not just in a "taking the p*ss" kind of way, but containing some of the figures of speech as well as the actual pronunciation, of the place where we're staying.
But I agree that it's only when you get out of your own milieu that you get to recognise your own dialect - almost, actually, when you get back, rather than when you're still away from "home".
When I was 8 I spent a few years in an American school near Washington DC. My accent apparently changed between school and my (English) home. However, I just adapted, and I only had it drawn to my attention when I got to do a bit of public speaking on stage at a school event there, and my parents said they were shocked to hear how differently I spoke. It never occurred to me that I had a different speech-style for school and for home. I guess at that age, it was all about fitting in.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
And...
I and others have been drawing an analogy between the way spoken dialects might be attached to people and places, but I wonder also if there's a correlation between the music and the speech dialect? Does a hard accent also have a hard playing style? Is there a correlation between the "lilt" of speech and music in a geographical area? Between Northern and Southern styles of speaking and playing?
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
Mark, I had a similar situation. I lived in Australia for a year as a child. When I got there, my new friends hassled me for talking "flat", and when I returned to the US, my friends here hassled me for talking with an accent!
Still, with the music, I find it somewhat difficult to identify what is different about my playing than certain regional styles. Having just gotten back from two weeks playing in Ireland, I found it very "comfortable" to be coming back to my home sessions. And while playing in Ireland was somewhat uncomfortable at times, I wasn't able to pinpoint what the differences actually were. The candidates might be differences in speed, swing, lift, or ornamentation. But when I concentrated on any one of those while playing in Ireland, it didn't seem like it was really different than how we play here in most cases.
So in that regard, I still find it difficult to "notice my own accent". (However, I do admit that two weeks might not count as "appreciable time", smw)
Pete
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Reverend
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I've been told that my linguistic accent is mostly North Somerset, with touch of Welsh which apparently becomes more pronounced when I'm in Wales, just as my wife's normally inconspicuous Cork accent when in Bristol blossoms when she visits her relatives in Cork. Although what the Cork accent is going to be like in a generation's time is difficult to imagine - there are about 20,000 Polish immigrants now living in Cork,and many thousand more immigrants from other parts of Eastern Europe, plus others from other parts of the World.
My Irish musical accent/dialect? I haven't the faintest idea, except that it must be influenced by all the Bristol sessions I've been going to for the last six years, and the mixture of styles I hear regularly from a number of fine players. I do far more playing live with others than listening to recordings, so I don't think I'm influenced much, if at all, by CDs.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I am a Dalek.
Or was.
On here.
Till recently.
Don't think I have a musical accent on flute. I have been trying to achieve a Cork/Kerry "twist" for playing the very limited number of polkas and slides I have on the box. I believe that's the only way to play them to bring them to life.
But so far this is proving to be an arduous intractable process.
# Posted on March 26th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
This topic reminds me of a radio program on bird dialects i heard at night on my way home from session. Arriving home I sat in the car for another half-hour to listen to the fascinating story on how a researcher had studied a specific bird species, their dialects, and the impact on "social life" among birds.
This particular bird species develops a very specific and distinct dialect of singing which can be related to a rather narrow local area that they live in. Any bird wanting to fit in has to adapt to the regional style of singing and develop a melody in line with the regional style.
Another aspect of the story is why the birds sing: It turns out it is only the male birds that sing, and they do it to get dates... If they don't sing in tune and with the local dialect, they won't get any chicks.......
.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by MrGanAinm
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I have only ever heard ITM played in South London. (I don’t listen to recordings of ITM- they didn’t in the olden times! - I’m trying to learn just by listening and playing at sessions)
I hear lots of musicians playing many, many tunes and they are all apparently played with the same “accent”. The difference between the styles of the Irish counties et cetera is rather lost when one hears this “cosmopolitan” bunch playing. The anoraks sometimes say, “That’s a Clare” tune, but I can’t hear the difference. The tunes as played where I hear them, I suppose, all now have a South London accent.
Before recordings/ global communication, one assumes the players of “ITM” would have only heard local musicians and so a local style/ dialect/ accent would have developed. It happens in all musical genres doesn’t it? But we live in a world now where we aren’t isolated and we pick up stuff from all over.
And anyway, even the accent of a particular place evolves and changes generationally n’est que pas? My father (born 1915, Elephant & Castle) had an accent that was old skool “Owl, gorl blimey, ‘ello guvnor” type of thing, I have a London/ Grammar School/ Keith Richards way of talking (“Like is that cat gonna play the facking tune or what, Man?”) and my son speaks in the way that all people under thirty do now with more than a hint of Patois/ Hip Hop/ Indian Sub-continent influence “Lie down gyall let me push it oop, y’know wodeye meen? Wotteffah! Let’s eet som swveeties”. And who knows how London was spoken in the time Pepys or Chaucer for instance.
So what you’re seeing in ITM is the inevitable change bought on by time and the influence of the media. I suppose one day ITM will have one global accent, as will all other types of music (and everything else! - language, food, fashion, et cetera, et cetera…). So the museum curators who want to preserve every tune in its original form, setting and accent are rather on a loser unless they go and live in a remote village with no ‘phone, TV, radio, internet, written music and only ever play with the same six or seven players for ever! (but then, of course, their sons and daughters will take and change it !!)
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I doubt that the analogy between music and language is infalliable. You acquire languages without any conscious effort when you are a kid. But do you learn to play a certain type of music without consicous effort? A language is certainly regionalluy divided into accents, but is traditional Irish music clearly divided into so-called "regional styles"?
As many has pointed out, there has been a lot of variety even in a "regional style". Oft-quoted examples are Sligo fiddle masters Coleman, Morrison, and Killoran, and East Galway fluters Paddy Carty and Mike Rafferty. I'd say there's no musical "accent" as such. The playing style of this music is much more individualistic.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by slainte
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I have a NE US accent. Little bit of swing to some phrases, little more backbeat, little less ornamentation, hints of old time and music hall. Here, there are many folks with styles brought across from Ireland, a goodly number out of the Sligo-influenced NY crowd, but also Scot and Nova Scotia fiddlers, and quite a few with Quebequois influence. So even though we play Irish music, there are definite accents from other sources mixed in.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
AlBrown, it’s nice to hear what I was trying to say articulated more clearly.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by fidkid
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
I have been noticing that there are definitely styles here in America. When people come up from Chicago they have a 'Chicago Style'. There is a 'Twin Cities' style and a 'Milwaukee' and a 'Winnipeg' style. You can hear it when they play their party piece but then, just like when you blend in with the lingual accent, people will blend in with the musical accent. This isn’t surprising when you think that these people are training themselves to play what they hear. An accent is influenced by the tunes, instrumentation, where the core members are from, many things. But when people play together a lot they develop a style or ‘accent’. My daughter just moved to Oklahoma last week and when I spoke to her yesterday she already had the Okie drawl. If you have developed your melodic memory, chorusing, and blending skills, as you do in music, this will happen.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by baglady
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
Gibberish.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by drone
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
Wibble?
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
What was gibberish, Drone? I want to know whether I agree with you or not.
# Posted on March 27th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
My diddley dialect is gibberish, with so many influences that I might be mistaken for somebody from nowhere.
# Posted on March 28th 2007 by drone
Re: What's your diddley dialect?
Well I'm from Donegal, and obviously Donegal, being the home of some of the greatest Irish musicians around, has it's own style of music, especially the Donegal fiddle.
# Posted on March 30th 2007 by Stíofán