Forgive me if this has already been explained or argued to death but I am trying to understand why ITM CDs cost so much in Ireland compared to the United States. For example, Compass Records is selling most of their Irish musician CDs for $10 or $12 (that's 7.5 or 9 Euros). I can buy Teada's latest for 9 Euros at Compass or 19.99 Euros at Claddagh Records. So even if I were living in Ireland it would be cheaper to buy CDs and have them shipped from the U.S.! Of course, many Irish CDs aren't available on US labels and aren't distributed here: Breda Keville, Siobhan Peoples, Zoe Conway, Malachy Bourke, Slide, etc. These CDs, however, will cost me about $30 each, what with the exchange rate and postage. But mostly it's just the much higher cost of CDs in Ireland. What's the story? Are CDs more expensive to produce in Ireland? Are the musicians seeing any of the profit from the distinct markup in the Irish market? OR?
The controversy was over Green Linnet. Definitely not Compass Records, which has a quite opposite reputation. Although Compass has acquired some of Green Linnet's catalog, the company is much more likely to continue to fairly treat their artists.
I fail to see why its due to the cost of VAT and the exchange rate .Can someone please explain this . The phisical cost of the Cds is not that large about one pound ,thats two dollars or one and a half euros. So either artists get less money for selling in the states or over in europe we are being ripped off.
I buy all mine on EBay etc, UK shops charge about £16 for a folk CD, they are a lot cheaper on the web even with postage costs.I've just bought Portland by Kevin Burke for about £7-60 new,It pays to shop around.
Ric
While this discussion seems to mainly be relating to the consumer end of things, if the musician is getting 30% of the final total - that does mean more to the musician in Ireland than the States.
Also, while the cost of the physical CD might only be a €/$ or 2, this does not take into account the cost of recording the album, and to recoup this would obviously be the goal. Its becoming far more common that the labels merely distribute, and musicians are ultimately the ones hoping to recoup some of the recording costs.
Keep in mind that the cost of living is higher in Ireland and the market for CDs is smaller, so everyone in the chain (recording studio, engineer, musicians, graphic artist, manufacturer, label, wholesaler, retailer, shipping company, etc.) has to realize a larger profit per unit. Then add VAT and exchange rate. Whether it all adds up to the actual difference in price, I don't know.
As Niamh above says, a CD does not end up costing $1.50 or two especially when recording cost and printing/design of the cover/booklet are included. And that's before we start talking about any cost for websites or advertising if you want to go that way.
Prices can be that low but you would have to print a number of copies no traditional album realistically can expect to sell.
Recouping cost of an independently produced CD you will have to deal with distributors that buy CDs off you at €7.50 for re-sale at €20. US distributors either drive a hard bargain at $9 per item in both cases the artist will bear the cost of getting the CDs to the distributor which basically means that a CD sent to a distributor in the States bring in under €6
Now, I do know of several artistes, myself included who specifically asked shops to sell their album at €18, invariably this request was ignored. Even in cases where price from artist to shop was based on that (lower) sales-price.
That all aside, everything is more expensive in Ireland.
I just bought a USB cable that would require special ordering and a price tag of €85 in Ireland, over E bay for £0.99 plus another £3 for postage from China. A Nikkor zoom lens I was looking for was €1800 in Ireland, €1100 on the continent and I can order it from Hongkong for €563. Go figure why the Celtic tiger roars.
" 30% of the final total - that does mean more to the musician in Ireland than the States"
Sorry all! I've just reread that and realised how badly phrased it was. For those of you who may have been confused or mis-directed, I meant that 30% of the Irish figure was worth more than of the US figure - as opposed to Irish musicians feeling more pain than US ones
Just to reply to the question on whether artists are getting ripped off due to the price difference. For those signed to a label they tend to get around %10-20 of the WHOLESALE price, i.e. the money the retailer pays the record company for the cds. This wholesale price is as someone pointed is roughly half the retail price, sometimes lower. So the reason you can see so many price differences for CD's have nothing to do with the artists or their record companies, it is all down to the retailers deciding what they need to charge to cover their costs and make a reasonable profit.
Still, adding everything up the price of CD's in Ireland is ridiculous, I don't think CD's should be any more than €15 but they average around €20 these days.
I tend to order from ebay or amazon.com which generally works out cheaper. It's quite ironic really that I can get a traditional Irish music cd through amazon.com in the US sent to me here in Ireland and it works out cheaper than me going to a record store in Galway and buying it
Having been in Ireland and US last year, I can offer some firsthand observation.
The CD's there are not terribly nore expensive than here. In the US ITM is not a high volume item, so supply is limited and costs are usually premium. At most outlets here prices run from $18 to $24. In Galway, Donegal, Enniskillin and Dublin, at I paid between 16 and 22 euro. At the $1.28 exhcange rate, that translates $20.48 to $28.16. A bit of a premium, but here it's hard choice is limited. On the web sites, you'll spend that much with shipping.
What was astounding though was the cost of whistles. Even though I play a Michael Burke custom made, the price of which begs the question as to why it is called a penny whistle, I always buy the cheapies wherever I go for the heck of it. In the one or two in ten, sometimes there is a real gem (even though the Generation I bought in Ireland are as bad as the ones they sell here). Even though they usually have pretty crummy high ends, they sometimes have beautiful mid ranges that for some tunes not requiring the high end, they are great.
I paid between 3 euro and 9 euro for a bunck of different whistles. That $3.84 to $11.52. Here cheapies start at $6.95 and go up. Again choice is extremely limited.
I picked up this great Feadog D in West Port. Over the high Holy day last weekend I played it at a big gig on a few things instead of the Burke. Beautiful tone and character, and high end.
But I won't get into car rental costs, fuel and housing. That was expensive in the Repbulic. But look at it this way. Herself saw this great deal at Belleek. She wanted to buy some wedding gifts. They would ship to the US for free for purchases over 450. Since that was sort of her budget, she said "great deal"....Until I told her to multiply that time 1.84 to get dollars. That's $828!
After that she wouldn't even buy a cup of tea until she got back to the Republic.
Whistles are a completely different kettle of fish. If you want a Quality instrument of any sort you expect to pay for it. I started off playing off the peg penny whistles then when I'd reached a good standard bought a Chris Abel custom made instrument having seen one at the Willy Clancy week. I now play a Bleazey blackwood whistle. Quality instruments have a better tone and response, you can certainly tell the difference
Holy f**k! Thanks zippy, made my day seeing Belleek get a mention, see you in The Fiddlestone sometime. Anyway, would anyone want to buy anything in a country that persecutes its musicians for un-american activities? Ask the ghosts of Woody Guthrie, Paul Robeson, Billy Holiday etc
I wish I had known about Fiddlestone. First time to Beleek. Next time. Maybe I bring my box if I don't have the twenty something daughter in tow. The thought of me playing either my PA or BB in her presence embarrasses her. Same with the son.
Poetic justice though. Son is seeing a girl. Visits the parents. Guess what? Her dad plays the accordion.
Even though I am not as prominent as the folks you mention the Current Occupant of our White house had me for a year or so had me on what they call the 'Selectee list'. Sort of payback for people they didn't like. I worked agin them on a few things and ended up getting strip searched every time I flew in the US.
And I am just an old fart who writes a little to much. But it is nice to know I am in good company even though I know I haven't done as much as they did.
Herself gets mad at me when I say I want to chuck it all in Chicago and find a quiet spot in Ireland. She got worried when I jokingly offered to a freind with a construction company to open his Dublin office when he was ready. He is a Walsh btw.
But for the exchange rate on the pound, Beleek is a wonderful part of the world.
ricthewhistle
I know. My Michael Burke is wonderful, but I paid for it. But there is a certain fun that you can pay 5 or 6 for a piece of metal and there is an off chance it will make great sound. And I can always tease Herself who constantly moans about 'those whistles all over the house'. It htey are cheap, I don't feel bad if at my age I forget about one for awhile.
Where did you get the blackwood? In the US, best place to shop is The Whistle Stop on the web. Only problem is you can't fool with them before you buy them and have to know what you are getting, or go through the hassle of returning them.
I bought it at Chippenham Folk Festival a couple of years ago. Bleazy always have a stand there and you can try them out before you buy them. I'll be buying a new one this year because the mouthpiece is getting worn down by my teeth.
CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Forgive me if this has already been explained or argued to death but I am trying to understand why ITM CDs cost so much in Ireland compared to the United States. For example, Compass Records is selling most of their Irish musician CDs for $10 or $12 (that's 7.5 or 9 Euros). I can buy Teada's latest for 9 Euros at Compass or 19.99 Euros at Claddagh Records. So even if I were living in Ireland it would be cheaper to buy CDs and have them shipped from the U.S.! Of course, many Irish CDs aren't available on US labels and aren't distributed here: Breda Keville, Siobhan Peoples, Zoe Conway, Malachy Bourke, Slide, etc. These CDs, however, will cost me about $30 each, what with the exchange rate and postage. But mostly it's just the much higher cost of CDs in Ireland. What's the story? Are CDs more expensive to produce in Ireland? Are the musicians seeing any of the profit from the distinct markup in the Irish market? OR?
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by snertzy
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Nearly everything is more expensive in Ireland.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Some of the difference is due to the exchange rate, and VAT.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by kkrell
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Wasn't there talk a while back of Green Linnet (Compass) essentially ripping off artists?
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by kjay_bc_box
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
The controversy was over Green Linnet. Definitely not Compass Records, which has a quite opposite reputation. Although Compass has acquired some of Green Linnet's catalog, the company is much more likely to continue to fairly treat their artists.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by kkrell
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
I fail to see why its due to the cost of VAT and the exchange rate .Can someone please explain this . The phisical cost of the Cds is not that large about one pound ,thats two dollars or one and a half euros. So either artists get less money for selling in the states or over in europe we are being ripped off.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by bazouki dave
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6471863.stm
This is a fix read the news
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by bazouki dave
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
I buy all mine on EBay etc, UK shops charge about £16 for a folk CD, they are a lot cheaper on the web even with postage costs.I've just bought Portland by Kevin Burke for about £7-60 new,It pays to shop around.
Ric
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by ricthewhistle
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
i buy a lot of cd's from cd baby in the u.s. and have it send to ireland, it still works out a lot cheaper.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by molloy
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
While this discussion seems to mainly be relating to the consumer end of things, if the musician is getting 30% of the final total - that does mean more to the musician in Ireland than the States.
Also, while the cost of the physical CD might only be a €/$ or 2, this does not take into account the cost of recording the album, and to recoup this would obviously be the goal. Its becoming far more common that the labels merely distribute, and musicians are ultimately the ones hoping to recoup some of the recording costs.
Just something to keep in mind.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by nnicharra
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Keep in mind that the cost of living is higher in Ireland and the market for CDs is smaller, so everyone in the chain (recording studio, engineer, musicians, graphic artist, manufacturer, label, wholesaler, retailer, shipping company, etc.) has to realize a larger profit per unit. Then add VAT and exchange rate. Whether it all adds up to the actual difference in price, I don't know.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by GaryAMartin
PS Minimum wage in Ireland is roughly double what it is in the U.S.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by GaryAMartin
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
As Niamh above says, a CD does not end up costing $1.50 or two especially when recording cost and printing/design of the cover/booklet are included. And that's before we start talking about any cost for websites or advertising if you want to go that way.
Prices can be that low but you would have to print a number of copies no traditional album realistically can expect to sell.
Recouping cost of an independently produced CD you will have to deal with distributors that buy CDs off you at €7.50 for re-sale at €20. US distributors either drive a hard bargain at $9 per item in both cases the artist will bear the cost of getting the CDs to the distributor which basically means that a CD sent to a distributor in the States bring in under €6
Now, I do know of several artistes, myself included who specifically asked shops to sell their album at €18, invariably this request was ignored. Even in cases where price from artist to shop was based on that (lower) sales-price.
That all aside, everything is more expensive in Ireland.
I just bought a USB cable that would require special ordering and a price tag of €85 in Ireland, over E bay for £0.99 plus another £3 for postage from China. A Nikkor zoom lens I was looking for was €1800 in Ireland, €1100 on the continent and I can order it from Hongkong for €563. Go figure why the Celtic tiger roars.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by kilfarboy
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
" 30% of the final total - that does mean more to the musician in Ireland than the States"
Sorry all! I've just reread that and realised how badly phrased it was. For those of you who may have been confused or mis-directed, I meant that 30% of the Irish figure was worth more than of the US figure - as opposed to Irish musicians feeling more pain than US ones
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by nnicharra
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Just to reply to the question on whether artists are getting ripped off due to the price difference. For those signed to a label they tend to get around %10-20 of the WHOLESALE price, i.e. the money the retailer pays the record company for the cds. This wholesale price is as someone pointed is roughly half the retail price, sometimes lower. So the reason you can see so many price differences for CD's have nothing to do with the artists or their record companies, it is all down to the retailers deciding what they need to charge to cover their costs and make a reasonable profit.
Still, adding everything up the price of CD's in Ireland is ridiculous, I don't think CD's should be any more than €15 but they average around €20 these days.
I tend to order from ebay or amazon.com which generally works out cheaper. It's quite ironic really that I can get a traditional Irish music cd through amazon.com in the US sent to me here in Ireland and it works out cheaper than me going to a record store in Galway and buying it
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by Bring back Tigh Hughes!
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Having been in Ireland and US last year, I can offer some firsthand observation.
The CD's there are not terribly nore expensive than here. In the US ITM is not a high volume item, so supply is limited and costs are usually premium. At most outlets here prices run from $18 to $24. In Galway, Donegal, Enniskillin and Dublin, at I paid between 16 and 22 euro. At the $1.28 exhcange rate, that translates $20.48 to $28.16. A bit of a premium, but here it's hard choice is limited. On the web sites, you'll spend that much with shipping.
What was astounding though was the cost of whistles. Even though I play a Michael Burke custom made, the price of which begs the question as to why it is called a penny whistle, I always buy the cheapies wherever I go for the heck of it. In the one or two in ten, sometimes there is a real gem (even though the Generation I bought in Ireland are as bad as the ones they sell here). Even though they usually have pretty crummy high ends, they sometimes have beautiful mid ranges that for some tunes not requiring the high end, they are great.
I paid between 3 euro and 9 euro for a bunck of different whistles. That $3.84 to $11.52. Here cheapies start at $6.95 and go up. Again choice is extremely limited.
I picked up this great Feadog D in West Port. Over the high Holy day last weekend I played it at a big gig on a few things instead of the Burke. Beautiful tone and character, and high end.
But I won't get into car rental costs, fuel and housing. That was expensive in the Repbulic. But look at it this way. Herself saw this great deal at Belleek. She wanted to buy some wedding gifts. They would ship to the US for free for purchases over 450. Since that was sort of her budget, she said "great deal"....Until I told her to multiply that time 1.84 to get dollars. That's $828!
After that she wouldn't even buy a cup of tea until she got back to the Republic.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by zippydw
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Whistles are a completely different kettle of fish. If you want a Quality instrument of any sort you expect to pay for it. I started off playing off the peg penny whistles then when I'd reached a good standard bought a Chris Abel custom made instrument having seen one at the Willy Clancy week. I now play a Bleazey blackwood whistle. Quality instruments have a better tone and response, you can certainly tell the difference
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by ricthewhistle
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
Holy f**k! Thanks zippy, made my day seeing Belleek get a mention, see you in The Fiddlestone sometime. Anyway, would anyone want to buy anything in a country that persecutes its musicians for un-american activities? Ask the ghosts of Woody Guthrie, Paul Robeson, Billy Holiday etc
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by strayaway
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
strayaway
I wish I had known about Fiddlestone. First time to Beleek. Next time. Maybe I bring my box if I don't have the twenty something daughter in tow. The thought of me playing either my PA or BB in her presence embarrasses her. Same with the son.
Poetic justice though. Son is seeing a girl. Visits the parents. Guess what? Her dad plays the accordion.
Even though I am not as prominent as the folks you mention the Current Occupant of our White house had me for a year or so had me on what they call the 'Selectee list'. Sort of payback for people they didn't like. I worked agin them on a few things and ended up getting strip searched every time I flew in the US.
And I am just an old fart who writes a little to much. But it is nice to know I am in good company even though I know I haven't done as much as they did.
Herself gets mad at me when I say I want to chuck it all in Chicago and find a quiet spot in Ireland. She got worried when I jokingly offered to a freind with a construction company to open his Dublin office when he was ready. He is a Walsh btw.
But for the exchange rate on the pound, Beleek is a wonderful part of the world.
ricthewhistle
I know. My Michael Burke is wonderful, but I paid for it. But there is a certain fun that you can pay 5 or 6 for a piece of metal and there is an off chance it will make great sound. And I can always tease Herself who constantly moans about 'those whistles all over the house'. It htey are cheap, I don't feel bad if at my age I forget about one for awhile.
Where did you get the blackwood? In the US, best place to shop is The Whistle Stop on the web. Only problem is you can't fool with them before you buy them and have to know what you are getting, or go through the hassle of returning them.
# Posted on March 21st 2007 by zippydw
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
I bought it at Chippenham Folk Festival a couple of years ago. Bleazy always have a stand there and you can try them out before you buy them. I'll be buying a new one this year because the mouthpiece is getting worn down by my teeth.
# Posted on March 22nd 2007 by ricthewhistle
Re: CD prices: Ireland and the U.S.
thanks
# Posted on March 22nd 2007 by zippydw