Except it doesn't really help 'cause it doesn't tell you exactly where to put the roll or whether it's a short roll or a long roll etc. Most importantly, it doesn't give you any indication of what a roll is. Of course, if you do know what rolls are and where they go, a piece of written music with indications of rolls could be useful to you. But beware, if you are in the least bit unsure of rolls, please please do not think you can learn anything from this symbol. Please please use your ears instead.
Not sure if "That means a lot" is sarcastic. Just in case: a roll is usually a musical ornament/embellishment where you hit a note, and then, very quickly, hit below it, the note again, the note above it, and back to the note again. Very quickly. llig is quite correct. You must listen to the music to understand what this is. A roll is one of the "hiccups" you hear in this music -- one of the twiddly bits.
Do a search on this site, there's tons of discussion on this very subject.
Ilig, I think this symbol does help, just as a hornpipe written straight still helps. Since written music is only a secondary medium (especially in our case) and so much extra knowledge is required to turn written notes into a played tune, then it doesn't make sense for written music to be descriptive. It need only be simple enough to get the tune across, since all the other work (syncopation, intonation, ornamentation) has to be developed by one's self anyway.
I agree, of course, but the warning is for those very many individuals who come new to this music having already learned how to read the dots. Unfortunatly it's very common to hear people playing this music wrong, only for them to say "it can't be wrong, I'm playing it exactly as written".
And while it may be technically correct to say a roll is "where you hit a note, and then, very quickly, hit below it, the note again, the note above it, and back to the note again", such a description is of no help whatsoever unless you hear it.
Without wishing to be pendantic, I always thought that ~ meant to ornament the note as you choose and according to the limitations of the instrument you're playing. i.e. ~D on a whistle might be played as a triplet DED as you can't roll the bottom note or as one of them funny things the pipers play - can't remember the name! Likewise on a B/C tuned box an ~F is hard to play convincingly. So listen Jocke and do what your fancy takes you.
yeah, fair play. Though I'd say judgement and knowledge. Yes, do what your fancy takes you, but choose from the predetermined list that is in the tradition. Don't just go making your own twiddly bits up. Least not until you've mastered the others first.
What does ~ mean?
What does ~ mean?
What does ~ mean in notation?
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by Jocke
Re: What does ~ mean?
In Irish music, usually a roll.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by kris
Re: What does ~ mean?
Thank you! That means a lot.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by Jocke
Re: What does ~ mean?
Except it doesn't really help 'cause it doesn't tell you exactly where to put the roll or whether it's a short roll or a long roll etc. Most importantly, it doesn't give you any indication of what a roll is. Of course, if you do know what rolls are and where they go, a piece of written music with indications of rolls could be useful to you. But beware, if you are in the least bit unsure of rolls, please please do not think you can learn anything from this symbol. Please please use your ears instead.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by ...
Re: What does ~ mean?
Not sure if "That means a lot" is sarcastic. Just in case: a roll is usually a musical ornament/embellishment where you hit a note, and then, very quickly, hit below it, the note again, the note above it, and back to the note again. Very quickly. llig is quite correct. You must listen to the music to understand what this is. A roll is one of the "hiccups" you hear in this music -- one of the twiddly bits.
Do a search on this site, there's tons of discussion on this very subject.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by fidkid
Re: What does ~ mean?
Of course, then you can always trill the roll, too...
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by Ben314
Re: What does ~ mean?
Ilig, I think this symbol does help, just as a hornpipe written straight still helps. Since written music is only a secondary medium (especially in our case) and so much extra knowledge is required to turn written notes into a played tune, then it doesn't make sense for written music to be descriptive. It need only be simple enough to get the tune across, since all the other work (syncopation, intonation, ornamentation) has to be developed by one's self anyway.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by kjay_bc_box
Re: What does ~ mean?
I agree, of course, but the warning is for those very many individuals who come new to this music having already learned how to read the dots. Unfortunatly it's very common to hear people playing this music wrong, only for them to say "it can't be wrong, I'm playing it exactly as written".
And while it may be technically correct to say a roll is "where you hit a note, and then, very quickly, hit below it, the note again, the note above it, and back to the note again", such a description is of no help whatsoever unless you hear it.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by ...
Re: What does ~ mean?
Fid
I thought a roll was usually played as
note
note above
note
note below
note
(unless it's an 'open string roll') but anyway I agree that you need to hear it played, as it's not the same as the 'turn' in classical music
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by domhnall.
Re: What does ~ mean?
Aaarg. Whale oil beef hooked.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by fidkid
Re: What does ~ mean?
Jocke -
domnull's correct about a roll. I'm a twit.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by fidkid
Re: What does ~ mean?
I didn't even read it, just copy pasted.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by ...
Re: What does ~ mean?
Without wishing to be pendantic, I always thought that ~ meant to ornament the note as you choose and according to the limitations of the instrument you're playing. i.e. ~D on a whistle might be played as a triplet DED as you can't roll the bottom note or as one of them funny things the pipers play - can't remember the name! Likewise on a B/C tuned box an ~F is hard to play convincingly. So listen Jocke and do what your fancy takes you.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: What does ~ mean?
I tend to agree with hussar, there are options in how to respond to that symbol, and judgement is required.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: What does ~ mean?
yeah, fair play. Though I'd say judgement and knowledge. Yes, do what your fancy takes you, but choose from the predetermined list that is in the tradition. Don't just go making your own twiddly bits up. Least not until you've mastered the others first.
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by ...
Re: What does ~ mean?
"That means a lot" isn't sarcastic.
Thank you for all the answers.
# Posted on March 6th 2007 by Jocke