I am amazed at the amount of great Musicans in sessions in Ireland that are not friendly to new comers and beginers,do these people realise the damage they are doing to peoples confidence(or do they care). I was at a session recently where a musician increased the pace of the playing just so a few other musicans could not keep up just to let them know who was boss.Of all the sessions ive been to the ceili allstars sessions in cork have to be the best for me ,some of the best musicians around friendly and encouraging to all. This lot made me proud to be irish again. I d love to hear from others.
Absolute nonsense.
The best session in the world is well known to be the Blythe Hill Tavern, but only on some nights. It's a fact. It's in the Guinness Book of Records. Look under "sessions" then look for "best". Page 213.
Liam o connor is also in the Guinness Book of records for being the fastest box player, id say hes not in the top ten. So the guinness book doesn 't wash with me.
That's because this site is in the Guinness Book of Records as being the trad music site with the greatest number of defunct sessions listed. Page 109.
The best session in the world happens to have already gone into the past - it happened in Cork City on Thursday 18th February of 1982 - so you can all go home and forget about trying to ever beat it.
PS It was raining. There were 6 musicians. Five drank Murphys, the other was on the waggon due to liver damage, but died 3 months later. It will never be repeated. It was not so commercial as to get into the Gui**ss Book.
Hi Saint,
No one seems to want to address this :
I've seen it happen several times in the States too, where the tune is taken away from the person who started it, by speeding it up to the point of no return. To me it seems quite rude. I'm glad that you've found some sessions where you can have a good time.
I'm sure there are quite a few musicians who do that deliberately, but my experience in general is that they are completely unaware that they have hijaked the tune. Inexperience always tends to force a speed rush...
The most great sessions all in one spot are in East Durham at Irish Arts Week. They start out really big and sometimes it's hard to hear yourself play, but hang in til the wee hours and it is amazing .... the best I have ever encountered.
Some people do hijack to show who is boss, others are unaware, and yet others, they see someone floundering on a tune and try to help them out with some loud support, out of a kind heart, (I know a few, really!).... but those don't usually speed things up.
why do beginners and the like expect musicians who may have been playing for 20 years or so to come down to their level? Would you expect a premiership footballer to have a kick about with some Sunday league players and think him arrogant if he didn't?
"why do beginners and the like expect musicians who may have been playing for 20 years or so to come down to their level?" -- Fiddlebabe
Because playing music is a social engagement and doing things explicitly to exclude other people is rude.
No one says that the experts have to play *everything* at the beginner's pace, but deliberately playing tunes you know the beginner doesn't know or playing tunes they know way faster than you know they can is just a way of saying, "You aren't welcome, here."
People generally have more fun when they get to participate.
"People generally have more fun when they get to participate."
Sigh... Here we go again.
Beginners might have more fun when they get to participate, but more experienced musicians tend to have more fun when the music better suits their tastes.
With some good manners, and consideration, compromises can usually be made--but let's not assume that someone who tries to change the flavor of a session is being intentionally rude (though it is sometimes the case). Nor should we assume that all sessions are best served by encouraging everybody to join in (though that can sometimes be the case too, I suppose).
I don't mean to be unecessarily waspish, but you might consider it from the advanced players' perspective, instead of assuming that the ability to play three or four tunes entitles an individual to inflict their poor musicianship upon other, more dedicated musicians. Making it clear that a particular musician doesn't meet the standard expected in a session by playing above the level of their ability is certainly a more polite way of making a point than simply saying, 'You're not welcome here'. Often, musicians who complain of the arrogance or exclusivity practised by accomplished players are possessed of the misguided notion that it's all about 'social engagement', rather than making beautiful sounds, albeit in a social context. Subordinating musicianship to social niceties makes for bad sessions. There is not one traditional musician who has attained perfection, and listening to better, more experienced musicians is both pleasurable and informative. When a musician's set is run into the ground by other players it is often because their ability lags behind their enthusiasm, and because, quite simply, they have no place starting sets in the company of musicians who are much more advanced than they are. Listening to, playing with, and learning from, more experienced musicians, are methods which have served generations of Irish traditional musicians very well.
On the flip-side of all that, if you are invited to start a set, and then your tunes are run down like a dog in the street, you have a duty to be obnoxious in return.
At some of the best sessions I ever attended, I put my instrument away and listened. Of course I like to play, but I also like to listen to great music, and sometimes if I am the aformentioned "least common denominator", listening is the way to go!
From my perspective, the best session in the world occurred sometime in 2001 or 2002 (I forget the exact date) in Wards Public House, Warwick RI. I was there with my guitar, Bruce had his bouzouki, Bob and Mike were on fiddle, and Skip and Mark were on flutes. A great, well balanced group, who all played together from time to time, but never before or since played with that particular lineup. I was definitely the least accomplished musician there, but somehow rose to the occasion. It was one of those evenings where all of us, even the folks around the bar, knew something special had happened.
Yes, but sometimes it's just because they are shy or lack social skills saint, or not used to strangers coming in . Try saying hello yourself before giving up on them
Saint's right. Sorry for not posting a serious comment earlier. Some sessions you go along to it's like looking into a goldfish bowl, all the big eyes staring at you, no-one saying a word. Not the first time I've looked down to check my flies wasn't undone.
then again. Others you go to people are really friendly, you just can't tell.
BUT. There I was last night playing a couple of hornpipes, The Chancellor/Paddy O'Sullivan's, with just the bodhran - normally yer man is a nice player - but because the way I learned these two the setting is like slowed down reels. So he (presumably)mistakes them for reels and starts to pick up the pace. I knew I wasn't going to hack those twiddly bits in the 2nd part of O'Sullivan's, so, after a few attempts at easing the pace back to no avail I had to stop and say to him.
So there you go, Saint, it isn't always the melody players who up the pace.
It's always the ones who don't have to struggle with twiddly bits who go speeding up a tune, usually with a malevolent glint in their eye and a boot up the jaxie from me
ive met some great musician who think they are god and ive met better musicians who are great people. its no surprise to me that the usual people who comment on this site are avoiding this post . ye know what ye are doing in sessions grow up and encourage people .
A helpful check list for people considering whether or not to join a session they're visiting.
1) Listen
2) Find out if they're playing tunes you know
3) Find out if they're playing at a comparable level to your own
4) If after listening you find out 2 & 3 are affirmative, wait for an opportunity to ask if you can join
~~~
Things to ask yourself after joining the session.
1) Is my presence altering the flow of the session from what it was when I was listening?
2) Am I able to play comfortably at their pace/tempo?
3) Am I letting them call the shots?
~~~
If you've made it this far you've successfully joined a session. If any parts of the checklist have been negative then there's probably another session going somewhere else more to your liking. Whatever you do, avoid being compelled to go on an Internet message board to complain about a session that wasn't right for you. Also, try to remember that encouraging people doesn’t mean it’s ok to disturb a session in progress. If the people having a session choose to alter their session to accommodate you, that’s a generous gesture -- but don’t expect it.
If you follow this check list you might experience the best session in the world, but more importantly – you won’t interfere with it either.
At the sessions I "organise", I can play with most of what is brought to the session every evening. Beginners have come in, had a go at a couple of tunes, and gone away stimulated and excited. A couple of miles down the road there's a session I go to once in a while, they play 85% tunes I don't know, and I can spend a lot of the evening listening and learning rather than playing. What a beginner would feel if they walked into that one I can't imagine - despondant, maybe.
10 out of 10, PB - could not agree more. Or maybe to put it another way: "Ask not what the session can do for you, ask what you can do for the session" [ with apologies to JFK ].
Jack, your guidelines probably work most of the time, but they don't leave any room for beginners at all. The only way to join a session in that scenario is if you know the tunes and you can play at the level of the other players there. What if you're not quite as skilled but you want to try a tune? You have to start somewhere, right?
I'm not talking about having beginners playing all night and dragging the music down. More like a couple of tunes where the more experienced players pause and make room for those who are learning.
It's important to me to know how people feel about this. I've been to several sessions where I live and the players there have told me to come when I'm ready and they'll help me join in. They're very nice people and I'm sure it will be fine, but from some of the comments here have me wondering whether I shouldn't just wait another year or two.
I figure if I can play a handful of tunes at 80% of session speed, good rhythm, good intonation, and no more than 1-2 mistakes per tune, that would be good enough to start. Does that sound reasonable?
someone was telling me about an "open" session in a pub in Ireland somewhere, good players, you could join so long as you knew the tunes. Apparently there were a few players who lived in the area who also happened to be very good. The open session never lays the same tune twice - ever, the sets are tight and the musicians are tighter.
I have played some wonderful inspiring sessions and some truely appalling ones, its what you make of it. But the good ones keep you coming back.
whoops lost the train of thought...the good players who arent part of the session arent made welcome either.
I guess the ettiquette is different here, an open session is an open session, there are no closed sessions, they are called bands or concerts. An open session means you turn up deoderised, sober and with your own instrument (unless you have forgot your own and someone loans you one). If the bar picks up the beer tab dont buy several premium beers at once and hoard them. It doesnt matter if you dont know all the tunes, just know the key. Its great if you know it but dont panic if you dont. If you like to play that B things please dont worm you way into the middle of the fiddlers, fluatists and whistle players, go stand over .........................................................there. If you cant hear the flute beside you then its a sure bet they cant hear themselves either.
Either way every session is the worlds best session and we as players play for fun and the sheer joy of music.
Kennedy, actually I did address the idea of sessions leaving room for beginners when I said, "If the people having a session choose to alter their session to accommodate you, that’s a generous gesture -- but don’t expect it." There are sessions that will accommodate beginners, but it's their choice – just don’t expect everyone to, and be prepared to accept it if they choose not to.
As Joze said, "we as players play for fun and the sheer joy of music." Sometimes the player's joy and fun doesn't include altering their session to accommodate beginners or anyone else. Sometimes their fun and enjoyment is in playing the music the way they like to play it. If they visit your session or one that has a different take on the music from their own, then they shouldn't change those sessions either. It's a 2-way street.
Maybe we are going a bit deep into this at the end of the day all it takes is manners from all sides and i say it again AWARENESS is the key...............
PB, I think there is a way to join a session if you are a beginner without disturbing it. My rules are:
Make sure you don't play slowlyer, faster or louder than the others
1. I agree, wait to be invited or find out if the session is really open
2. if you know only 5% of the tunes played in the session, don't take the place of somebody who plays all the time, stay a bit apart.
3. play only the tunes you know well, don't try to learn at the same time (listening is a way of learning, too). Make sure you don't play slowlier, faster or louder than the others to be in harmony with them.
4. Keep cheking if you are welcome in the session.
Anyway I do like this...
Saint, how are you? I'm very glad to go to Cork in two weeks and take part in the "best sessions in the world". ;)
Someone said earlier that the points made above leave no rule for beginners.
I disagree; by and large, it's a bad idea for Beginners to join in established sessions.
Obviously there are exceptions to this;
1) If the session members are friendly and laid back enough to invite the beginner to the session
2) If it's a beginner session in the first place
3) If the Beginner is a good friend of the other session members and they don't mind playing some basic sets.
"Beginners" can be a very vague term and might mean several things;
e.g
Complete beginner... Obviously, an established session is NOT the place for them, although they should be encouraged to go along and listen
Improving beginners and newcomers to Irish music who might already play their instrument. In this situation, they might join in but with the caveats mentioned by Jack and a few others.
Only knowing 5% of the tunes.... This can happen even to experienced players but, hopefully, they will have enough sense to take a back seat and make way for others, if necessary.
Re
"Is my presence altering the flow of the session from what it was when I was listening?"
Yes, good point. However, there might be occasions where this might be welcomed. If you invited Kevin Burke to join you for a tune, for instance?
That being said, good experienced players normally know better than to try and "take things over" although there are some exceptions.
A new session should be approached like a military maneuver. Never venture in until you have done recon and gathered intel, so you know what you are getting into (yes, I know the military doesn't always get this right, either). If you try to join in to a session that you haven't listened to a few times, unless you are an accomplished player, you are asking for problems. And unless you are fully prepared to deal with the consequences, don't go where you are not invited without asking nicely beforehand.
Most of the problems I have seen with newcomers in sessions are caused by ignorance, failure to ask permission before joining, and expecting the session to change to adapt to you (for other than a couple of sets, which most sessions would be glad to do for a polite, motivated beginner).
Saint, you are full of it boy!!! Personally speaking, I think that The Ceili Allstars are the laziest shower that I've ever come across, they play one set of tunes and then all disappear outside for a smoke, one more set, and the whole thing is repeated again! Then that hairy shagger sings some boring dirge about some oul' wan getting shot, give me a break! They were better before the guitar player went off on his travels, I prefer the early stuff anyway!!!
best session in the world
best session in the world
I am amazed at the amount of great Musicans in sessions in Ireland that are not friendly to new comers and beginers,do these people realise the damage they are doing to peoples confidence(or do they care). I was at a session recently where a musician increased the pace of the playing just so a few other musicans could not keep up just to let them know who was boss.Of all the sessions ive been to the ceili allstars sessions in cork have to be the best for me ,some of the best musicians around friendly and encouraging to all. This lot made me proud to be irish again. I d love to hear from others.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
Absolute nonsense.
The best session in the world is well known to be the Blythe Hill Tavern, but only on some nights. It's a fact. It's in the Guinness Book of Records. Look under "sessions" then look for "best". Page 213.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: best session in the world
Liam o connor is also in the Guinness Book of records for being the fastest box player, id say hes not in the top ten. So the guinness book doesn 't wash with me.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
is that not a record in itself? The only record in the book that has anything to do with guiness
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: best session in the world
In Cork we drink murphys and beamish not sub standard stout like guinness. stop changing the topic.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
The sessions on this site need to be updated most of them don t even exist anymore
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
That's because this site is in the Guinness Book of Records as being the trad music site with the greatest number of defunct sessions listed. Page 109.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: best session in the world
The best session in the world happens to have already gone into the past - it happened in Cork City on Thursday 18th February of 1982 - so you can all go home and forget about trying to ever beat it.
PS It was raining. There were 6 musicians. Five drank Murphys, the other was on the waggon due to liver damage, but died 3 months later. It will never be repeated. It was not so commercial as to get into the Gui**ss Book.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: best session in the world
Hi Saint,
No one seems to want to address this :
I've seen it happen several times in the States too, where the tune is taken away from the person who started it, by speeding it up to the point of no return. To me it seems quite rude. I'm glad that you've found some sessions where you can have a good time.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by morning star
Re: best session in the world
I'm sure there are quite a few musicians who do that deliberately, but my experience in general is that they are completely unaware that they have hijaked the tune. Inexperience always tends to force a speed rush...
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by nnicharra
Re: best session in the world
"O'Rourke's noble feast will ne'er be forgot,
By those who were there, and those who were not..."
- O'Carolan, translated I think by Swift.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: best session in the world
The most great sessions all in one spot are in East Durham at Irish Arts Week. They start out really big and sometimes it's hard to hear yourself play, but hang in til the wee hours and it is amazing .... the best I have ever encountered.
Some people do hijack to show who is boss, others are unaware, and yet others, they see someone floundering on a tune and try to help them out with some loud support, out of a kind heart, (I know a few, really!).... but those don't usually speed things up.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: best session in the world
Some people require less confidence, and more musicianship. Confidence should follow, not precede, the attainment of musical competence.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Robert Ryan
Re: best session in the world
why do beginners and the like expect musicians who may have been playing for 20 years or so to come down to their level? Would you expect a premiership footballer to have a kick about with some Sunday league players and think him arrogant if he didn't?
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Fiddlebabe
Re: best session in the world
"why do beginners and the like expect musicians who may have been playing for 20 years or so to come down to their level?" -- Fiddlebabe
Because playing music is a social engagement and doing things explicitly to exclude other people is rude.
No one says that the experts have to play *everything* at the beginner's pace, but deliberately playing tunes you know the beginner doesn't know or playing tunes they know way faster than you know they can is just a way of saying, "You aren't welcome, here."
People generally have more fun when they get to participate.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by KeepFiddlin'
Re: best session in the world
"People generally have more fun when they get to participate."
Sigh... Here we go again.
Beginners might have more fun when they get to participate, but more experienced musicians tend to have more fun when the music better suits their tastes.
With some good manners, and consideration, compromises can usually be made--but let's not assume that someone who tries to change the flavor of a session is being intentionally rude (though it is sometimes the case). Nor should we assume that all sessions are best served by encouraging everybody to join in (though that can sometimes be the case too, I suppose).
I, for one, really liked the footballer analogy.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Georgi
Re: best session in the world
I don't mean to be unecessarily waspish, but you might consider it from the advanced players' perspective, instead of assuming that the ability to play three or four tunes entitles an individual to inflict their poor musicianship upon other, more dedicated musicians. Making it clear that a particular musician doesn't meet the standard expected in a session by playing above the level of their ability is certainly a more polite way of making a point than simply saying, 'You're not welcome here'. Often, musicians who complain of the arrogance or exclusivity practised by accomplished players are possessed of the misguided notion that it's all about 'social engagement', rather than making beautiful sounds, albeit in a social context. Subordinating musicianship to social niceties makes for bad sessions. There is not one traditional musician who has attained perfection, and listening to better, more experienced musicians is both pleasurable and informative. When a musician's set is run into the ground by other players it is often because their ability lags behind their enthusiasm, and because, quite simply, they have no place starting sets in the company of musicians who are much more advanced than they are. Listening to, playing with, and learning from, more experienced musicians, are methods which have served generations of Irish traditional musicians very well.
On the flip-side of all that, if you are invited to start a set, and then your tunes are run down like a dog in the street, you have a duty to be obnoxious in return.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Robert Ryan
Re: best session in the world
"Subordinating musicianship to social niceties makes for bad sessions"
Sometimes Robert it must be a bitch to have to subordinate one'self to social niceties! God help us.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Backer
Re: best session in the world
Lowest common denominators are over-rated.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by oldstrings
Re: best session in the world
I don't know what you're implying, but I have huge respect for my elf, and I wouldn't subordinate him for anything.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Robert Ryan
Re: best session in the world
Does he sit or stand Robert? (your vertically challenged friend)
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Backer
Re: best session in the world
Well, it makes little difference, really. He's invariably the lowest common denominator, whatever position he adopts.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Robert Ryan
Re: best session in the world
At some of the best sessions I ever attended, I put my instrument away and listened. Of course I like to play, but I also like to listen to great music, and sometimes if I am the aformentioned "least common denominator", listening is the way to go!
From my perspective, the best session in the world occurred sometime in 2001 or 2002 (I forget the exact date) in Wards Public House, Warwick RI. I was there with my guitar, Bruce had his bouzouki, Bob and Mike were on fiddle, and Skip and Mark were on flutes. A great, well balanced group, who all played together from time to time, but never before or since played with that particular lineup. I was definitely the least accomplished musician there, but somehow rose to the occasion. It was one of those evenings where all of us, even the folks around the bar, knew something special had happened.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: best session in the world
Just because a fiddler can't play at breakneck speed doesn't mean that they're a "beginner".
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by morning star
Re: best session in the world
Playing at speed was just an example .Anyone been at a session and no one even said hello.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
Yes, but sometimes it's just because they are shy or lack social skills saint, or not used to strangers coming in . Try saying hello yourself before giving up on them
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Bren
Re: best session in the world
Saint's right. Sorry for not posting a serious comment earlier. Some sessions you go along to it's like looking into a goldfish bowl, all the big eyes staring at you, no-one saying a word. Not the first time I've looked down to check my flies wasn't undone.
then again. Others you go to people are really friendly, you just can't tell.
BUT. There I was last night playing a couple of hornpipes, The Chancellor/Paddy O'Sullivan's, with just the bodhran - normally yer man is a nice player - but because the way I learned these two the setting is like slowed down reels. So he (presumably)mistakes them for reels and starts to pick up the pace. I knew I wasn't going to hack those twiddly bits in the 2nd part of O'Sullivan's, so, after a few attempts at easing the pace back to no avail I had to stop and say to him.
So there you go, Saint, it isn't always the melody players who up the pace.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: best session in the world
Like the new moniker Danny.
It's always the ones who don't have to struggle with twiddly bits who go speeding up a tune, usually with a malevolent glint in their eye and a boot up the jaxie from me
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Bren
Re: best session in the world
ive met some great musician who think they are god and ive met better musicians who are great people. its no surprise to me that the usual people who comment on this site are avoiding this post . ye know what ye are doing in sessions grow up and encourage people .
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
Well said, saint.
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by morning star
Re: best session in the world
A helpful check list for people considering whether or not to join a session they're visiting.
1) Listen
2) Find out if they're playing tunes you know
3) Find out if they're playing at a comparable level to your own
4) If after listening you find out 2 & 3 are affirmative, wait for an opportunity to ask if you can join
~~~
Things to ask yourself after joining the session.
1) Is my presence altering the flow of the session from what it was when I was listening?
2) Am I able to play comfortably at their pace/tempo?
3) Am I letting them call the shots?
~~~
If you've made it this far you've successfully joined a session. If any parts of the checklist have been negative then there's probably another session going somewhere else more to your liking. Whatever you do, avoid being compelled to go on an Internet message board to complain about a session that wasn't right for you. Also, try to remember that encouraging people doesn’t mean it’s ok to disturb a session in progress. If the people having a session choose to alter their session to accommodate you, that’s a generous gesture -- but don’t expect it.
If you follow this check list you might experience the best session in the world, but more importantly – you won’t interfere with it either.
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: best session in the world
At the sessions I "organise", I can play with most of what is brought to the session every evening. Beginners have come in, had a go at a couple of tunes, and gone away stimulated and excited. A couple of miles down the road there's a session I go to once in a while, they play 85% tunes I don't know, and I can spend a lot of the evening listening and learning rather than playing. What a beginner would feel if they walked into that one I can't imagine - despondant, maybe.
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: best session in the world
10 out of 10, PB - could not agree more. Or maybe to put it another way: "Ask not what the session can do for you, ask what you can do for the session" [ with apologies to JFK ].
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Kenny
Re: best session in the world
Jack, your guidelines probably work most of the time, but they don't leave any room for beginners at all. The only way to join a session in that scenario is if you know the tunes and you can play at the level of the other players there. What if you're not quite as skilled but you want to try a tune? You have to start somewhere, right?
I'm not talking about having beginners playing all night and dragging the music down. More like a couple of tunes where the more experienced players pause and make room for those who are learning.
It's important to me to know how people feel about this. I've been to several sessions where I live and the players there have told me to come when I'm ready and they'll help me join in. They're very nice people and I'm sure it will be fine, but from some of the comments here have me wondering whether I shouldn't just wait another year or two.
I figure if I can play a handful of tunes at 80% of session speed, good rhythm, good intonation, and no more than 1-2 mistakes per tune, that would be good enough to start. Does that sound reasonable?
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by kennedy
Re: best session in the world
Kennedy go to the sessions all of them awareness is the key and you have it.
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
someone was telling me about an "open" session in a pub in Ireland somewhere, good players, you could join so long as you knew the tunes. Apparently there were a few players who lived in the area who also happened to be very good. The open session never lays the same tune twice - ever, the sets are tight and the musicians are tighter.
I have played some wonderful inspiring sessions and some truely appalling ones, its what you make of it. But the good ones keep you coming back.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by Joze
Re: best session in the world
whoops lost the train of thought...the good players who arent part of the session arent made welcome either.
I guess the ettiquette is different here, an open session is an open session, there are no closed sessions, they are called bands or concerts. An open session means you turn up deoderised, sober and with your own instrument (unless you have forgot your own and someone loans you one). If the bar picks up the beer tab dont buy several premium beers at once and hoard them. It doesnt matter if you dont know all the tunes, just know the key. Its great if you know it but dont panic if you dont. If you like to play that B things please dont worm you way into the middle of the fiddlers, fluatists and whistle players, go stand over .........................................................there. If you cant hear the flute beside you then its a sure bet they cant hear themselves either.
Either way every session is the worlds best session and we as players play for fun and the sheer joy of music.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by Joze
Re: best session in the world
Kennedy, actually I did address the idea of sessions leaving room for beginners when I said, "If the people having a session choose to alter their session to accommodate you, that’s a generous gesture -- but don’t expect it." There are sessions that will accommodate beginners, but it's their choice – just don’t expect everyone to, and be prepared to accept it if they choose not to.
As Joze said, "we as players play for fun and the sheer joy of music." Sometimes the player's joy and fun doesn't include altering their session to accommodate beginners or anyone else. Sometimes their fun and enjoyment is in playing the music the way they like to play it. If they visit your session or one that has a different take on the music from their own, then they shouldn't change those sessions either. It's a 2-way street.
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: best session in the world
Maybe we are going a bit deep into this at the end of the day all it takes is manners from all sides and i say it again AWARENESS is the key...............
# Posted on March 4th 2007 by Saint
Re: best session in the world
PB, I think there is a way to join a session if you are a beginner without disturbing it. My rules are:
Make sure you don't play slowlyer, faster or louder than the others
1. I agree, wait to be invited or find out if the session is really open
2. if you know only 5% of the tunes played in the session, don't take the place of somebody who plays all the time, stay a bit apart.
3. play only the tunes you know well, don't try to learn at the same time (listening is a way of learning, too). Make sure you don't play slowlier, faster or louder than the others to be in harmony with them.
4. Keep cheking if you are welcome in the session.
Anyway I do like this...
Saint, how are you? I'm very glad to go to Cork in two weeks and take part in the "best sessions in the world". ;)
# Posted on March 13th 2007 by zazie
Re: best session in the world
Someone said earlier that the points made above leave no rule for beginners.
I disagree; by and large, it's a bad idea for Beginners to join in established sessions.
Obviously there are exceptions to this;
1) If the session members are friendly and laid back enough to invite the beginner to the session
2) If it's a beginner session in the first place
3) If the Beginner is a good friend of the other session members and they don't mind playing some basic sets.
# Posted on March 13th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: best session in the world
Sorry, *leave no room* for beginners...
# Posted on March 13th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: best session in the world
"Beginners" can be a very vague term and might mean several things;
e.g
Complete beginner... Obviously, an established session is NOT the place for them, although they should be encouraged to go along and listen
Improving beginners and newcomers to Irish music who might already play their instrument. In this situation, they might join in but with the caveats mentioned by Jack and a few others.
Only knowing 5% of the tunes.... This can happen even to experienced players but, hopefully, they will have enough sense to take a back seat and make way for others, if necessary.
Re
"Is my presence altering the flow of the session from what it was when I was listening?"
Yes, good point. However, there might be occasions where this might be welcomed. If you invited Kevin Burke to join you for a tune, for instance?
That being said, good experienced players normally know better than to try and "take things over" although there are some exceptions.
# Posted on March 13th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: best session in the world
A new session should be approached like a military maneuver. Never venture in until you have done recon and gathered intel, so you know what you are getting into (yes, I know the military doesn't always get this right, either). If you try to join in to a session that you haven't listened to a few times, unless you are an accomplished player, you are asking for problems. And unless you are fully prepared to deal with the consequences, don't go where you are not invited without asking nicely beforehand.
Most of the problems I have seen with newcomers in sessions are caused by ignorance, failure to ask permission before joining, and expecting the session to change to adapt to you (for other than a couple of sets, which most sessions would be glad to do for a polite, motivated beginner).
# Posted on March 13th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: best session in the world
Saint, you are full of it boy!!! Personally speaking, I think that The Ceili Allstars are the laziest shower that I've ever come across, they play one set of tunes and then all disappear outside for a smoke, one more set, and the whole thing is repeated again! Then that hairy shagger sings some boring dirge about some oul' wan getting shot, give me a break! They were better before the guitar player went off on his travels, I prefer the early stuff anyway!!!
# Posted on July 27th 2007 by eoinbouzouki