hi. simple question for ye all... what tunes in itm do ye love to hate!? and also what styles of playing do NOT tickle your fancy.. and most importantly, if you have any reason, WHY???? and well, even if you can't think of a reason.. sure blab it out anyhow!! mostly concerned with tunes but also style, do people who play too fast get on your nerves because you can't hear all the notes or something.. or when people play slow does in annoy you because it's dead...
now, with out any diversions to the subject, the floor is yours!!!!
Persionally, I HATE When Irish Eyes are Smiling and the Irish Washer Woman. Which is usualy what I get when I ask any one if they know itm tunes. And Danny Boy. They are so cliche!!! And are usualy done very badly.
Tunes I love to hate? Definitely any tune that is played way too fast and NOT very well either. If it's played well and at a nice clip then woohoo, but.. Yeeeeeeah.. Many nights have been ruined for me 'cause of it. It makes me sad =[
Red Crow, if I was responding as myself a year ago, I'd have to agree, but... Err.. actually... Yeah, maybe I do agree. It just depends who you play it with, really. =P
Several people round our way seem to have taken a severe dislike to St Anne's Reel. Don't know why - I love it
And I've just got the lyrics for Danny Boy since we keep getting requests for it (at our beginners' session, for some reason...). I've no objection to playing the old chestnuts if that's what people want to hear - even if we're not actually performing - in fact we're practicing and it amazes me that people sit around and listen - and sometimes applaud? :-o
Perhaps it should concern me that we seem to get more applause at the practice session than we do at the paid session....
well, i can't help but wonder if this is some wag's attempt to revive the furor of recent threads but, hey, i'll bite. i don't care for hyper-speed, though i have started to push myself to practice faster at home than i care to play in order to improve my chops and to be able to play for dancers, who do all seem to want super-fast dance tempos these days.
and, ahem, not to beat a dead horse or anything.....!!!***THOUGH THE PLAYERS ARE ALL FANTASTIC MUSICIANS OF GREAT VIRTUOSITY***!!!.....i do not care for ornamental styles with a high ornament to-melody quotient. on free reed instruments, i also find the current vogue for hyper-staccatissmo beebee-pellet barrages to be tiresome in the extreme and can't wait for it to go out of style, which it most certainly will.....i'm actually not into staccato ornamentation, period, though i listen all the time to concertina players who like staccato, such as tim collins, gearoid, & noel.....
the tunes i love to hate are the ones most likely to be massacred by players whose chops don't match their penchant for speed demonry. some of these are great tunes. i just have a skinnerian aversion to them due to negative conditioning. "gravel walks." "farewell to erin." "red crow." etc. there's something about A-major arpeggios that seems to bring out the worst in people....
having avoided altan for years due to the bad associations i have about them thanks to a contingent of horrifying altan-killers in my area, i was dumbfounded a week or two ago to watch their stuff on youtube and see what thoughtful and sensitive players they were, and how reasonable their tempos were!
Might not go as far as hate, but I've found recently that I will go through stages during which a particular tune will bore me to death. Some like that at the moment: Sally Gardens, St Anne's (it's all the straight runs up and down I think, bc_box_player) and George Whites Favourite. I really don't know why it's these particular tunes, but one remedy I've found is to find a new key to play a boring tune in. Doesn't help much for session playing though.
To my profound embarassment as a backer, I started to develop a deep love for rather slow, swingy and certainly tacky tunes (my flute player relates to them as "the crap tunes", which breaks my heart). So I started to love most hornpipes, with the Flowers of Edinburgh occupying the top of the list, as well as more cheesy highlands, flings and germans.
How are the things with you, Martin? Haven't heard from you lately.
We've had this discussion before under several different guises.
Usually, every popular tune in the wider repertoire gets a mention and then someone will argue that there's no such thing as a bad tune only the player. After which, MG will say "There are several bad tunes. In fact, there are too many tunes anyway"
Anyway, I generally love to hate tunes which fall into The Glasgow Reel/Tam Linn, Tongadale reel, or The Anvil family. These are dreadfully irritating as they encourage "show off" performances by fairly mediocre musicians where they start off slowly and deliberately speed up each time round.
Actually, the tunes aren't too bad when played at the regular pace..you get used to them, at least.
Perhaps, it is the player, not the tune!!!
I don't like that Found Harmonium thingy, so can't be bothered to learn it. But my hate in the ITM repertoire is definitely The King Of The Fairies, which in most sessions I go to tends to become a dreary, sagging dirge. I can't imagine it as anything other than a depressant. Maybe some ancient harpist composed and named it for someone he didn't like.
But it's not the worst.
The worst (to me, that is) is a mediaeval French tune called The Horses' Branle ("Brawl").
It goes something like this:
Rhythm - 2/4
Key - G Major
Note Length - 1/8
Tempo - Ponderous
||: G>A BB|cB Ac|BA GF|E2 D2|....
(I realise it's THAT one, and look for an exit. But it is blocked by seventeen people playing hurdy-gurdies and huge extinct Mediaeval bagpipes.)
...|G>A BB|cB Ac|BG AF|G4 :||...
(What must it have been like to die of a surfeit of lampreys to this tune?)
||:d c/B/ AB|c B/A/ GB|AG FG|A2 A2|.....
(If I sham death, will someone carry me out?)
...|d c/B/ AB|c B/A/ GB|AG GF|G4 :||....
(I am looking up the skirts of Mediaeval culture, and seeing things I would much rather not.)
||: _B A/G/ _B A/G/ | FG A2|D>E FG|A_B AG|....
(This bit where it modulates is particularly gruesome. I am now at a Mediaeval banquet on a spit, with an apple in my mouth.)
...|_B A/G/ _B A/G/| FG A2|DE FG|GF G2:||
(This is only the end of the beginning.
But the tune has one surprising, but logical, virtue:
Anything sounds good after it.)
Can't stand players that insist on playing everything in 'wierd' keys thereby ruling out half the players in the session (by virtue of the instruments they play, not their chops).. Every now and then it's nice, especially when its an old favourite that's given a new life in a different key, but that's not what I'm talking about. It's 'session' players that want to shake off the rest of the musicians.
I tend to relate tunes to those who play them, which is unfortunate (ie, to personalise an abstract series of sound waves.)
If I don't like the player, I probably won't like such and such a tune. Brings back too many bad memories. Conversely a blighted tune may be rescued by a good person playing it. This is bad, I know, but there's no accounting for personal likes or dislikes.
So, in general, dreary rainy Galway reels and jaggy yet monotonous-sounding Donegal fiddle reels are a turn off for me due to the playing of certain personnae. Bright, sunny, happy Kerry polkas and slides get me going. Curiously, Donegal tunes have been redeemed since I played along some with a proper Donegal fiddle player. No name drops this time.
Yes, it's often difficult to tease out what are good tunes from mediocre players. I was listening to a tune being played the other night and thinking it was pretty dire. Then someone came back from the bar and joined in and I completely changed my mind. However, this does not negate the simple truth that some tunes are indeed just s h i t.
Currently I hate all tunes that are too fast, I can't figure out, and can't predict, and therefore can't play. Sheer envy.
One day I hope to hate all the tunes I currently play because they are too easy,.....but at the moment that feels 422.75 years away, and my 32nd great grandchildren will have to hate them for me!
I also have a special place in my heart for Tune for Found Harmonium (can we make it a consensus of three?) I hate 'Tá an coilleach ag fógairt an lá'. Don't like Bunker Hill or The Oak Tree. Don't like the boys of blue hill.
Groundhog Day! No I shouldn't really say that as new members join the Yellow Board all the time and are equally entitled to their contribution - it's like someone cringing when Miss McCleod is started up without realising that there's a first time for everyone to hear and play it! I would have probably resisted joining in but I have to second John J's comments 100% and I'd also like to add the Mason's Apron as another of those annoying tunes. I must disagree though with the apparent consensus on St Anne's particularly when played after the Teetotaller where I think it makes a great combination - also I still say the Kesh is one of the best jigs of all time and I never tire of playing it!
I like St. Anne's Reel! I like just about every tune. Except the Irish Washerwoman. Yeah, I guess the Found Harmonium thingie, but that's not really an Irish tune anyway.
Instead of saying what I don't like (even though that's the premise of the thread), I'll say what I DO like, what I look for in any session I go to----musicianship! People who play the tunes like they mean it, who try to give it some creativity, who vary the ornaments, who play the tunes slow enough to be ornamented and to have a little lift in them. It doesn't matter what style. People who play with feeling, with sensitivity---how can anyone not love that. I hope I get there one day!!
What's wrong with saying what you don't like? So you hate it when there's no musicianship? You hate it when people don't play the tunes like they mean it? When it's not creative? When there's no variation in the ornaments? When it's too fast to ornamented?When there's no lift?
Except I don't actually hate it. I honestly don't associate this music I love with hate. It's more a feeling of disappointment when I don't find it. And boredom---I swear it's just boring to listen to fast reels all night. Know what I mean?
I like them all, some more than others. If I don't know 'em, or don't feel I will add to the proceedings, I sit out--go to the head, or the bar. If I know one of the old favorite songs a person requests, I will sing it for them. It is all good to me. Music is a blessing.
I don't like D, G and related tunes that sport F naturals just for the sake of it. I don't mean splendid tunes like Give Me Your Hand, The Hag's Purse and The Yellow Tinker (if I've got the last two names right), I mean less than splendid new ones that set out to be wacky.
You had me worried there Nicholas until you gave some examples. Others include The Cook in the Kitchen, The Duke of Leinster's Wife, The Hunt set dance - it's amazing how one note can give such character to a tune!
I don't know if I hate any of The Tunes. I was already sick of The Irish Washerwoman forty years ago, but just last year I heard it played gracefully and without irony or farce and it was quite nice. I think what happens is that we really do come to *love* to hate some tunes. It becomes a reflexive response - a sort of self-justifying thing. Am I making any sense? At some level, it's like I'm *supposed* to hate this tune, so I do. I'm not refering to social pressure, but emotional habit. Or summat.
For no good reason I hate playing Si Beg Si Mor, which, since I play the harp, is oft requested of me. Don't really enjoy playing Flowers of Edinburgh, Miss McLeod's or St Anne's, but I'll play along anyway.
Fortunately I haven't encountered the Horses' Branle in a US session, and it isn't that monotonous when played for the renaissance dance it goes with. Well, yes it is, but at least there's a point to it.
I never refuse a request to play Danny Boy because I never know but what the requester may have a loved one deployed to a dangerous place, or if they're my parents' age, is a WWII veteran, or my age a Vietnam vet. If this song brings them comfort, so be it.
I don't get tired of playing Si Bheag Si Mhor, but I get tired of being *asked* to play it when I'd rather spend my little time slice on something else. I actually enjoy playing it, even when I'm home alone, just because it's a challenge to make something of such a simple little tune without making too much of it.
I'm still very much a beginner, and certainly guilty of every playing-related offence listed in the preceding 42 comments - and then some - so I'll hold off on the stone-throwing until I'm out of this glass house. Which should happen in, what, twenty years or so?
Tunewise, there's not much in this genre I hate. That said, for some reason I've yet to hear an A major tune I really love. I've got thirty-odd tunes in my repertoire, and my two least favourite are the two in A major. I don't think it's the key so much as the fact that these two tunes (Miss McClouds and Ger the Rigger - both of which, to be fair, are growing on me) live entirely on the A and E strings, and my tastes tend to run a bit darker. (I prefer the viola to the fiddle as an instrument, and would have taken up the former if anything worthwhile had been written for it.) Mind you, I play some tunes in Amix that hit the G on the D string only once or twice before going back up high, and I like those ones a lot, so.
When the damaged tunes that have been beat to death for years come up I try to imagine what they would sound like if I were hearing them for the first time. If you can successfully do this you will rescue most of the tunes mentioned on this thread. Just about any of the cool new tunes we learn today could potentially suffer the same fate if played for decades by every beginner whistle player and then pummeled to death by speed demons at every session. It reminds me of the scene in 'A Clockwork Orange' where the main character was conditioned through torture to feel sick whenever he saw what he craved for.
Oh, and the much-maligned Tamlin? Love it, love it, love it. Love hearing it, love playing it, love playing it too damned fast for my own good or anyone else's, and I freely admit that my rendition of it is positively wretched. Which is why I tend not to play it in public.
I don't have many tunes, but I get awfully sick of The Gravel Walk and a few other show-offy tunes.
If I find someone doing that too often it's time to whip out a piping specialty like Colonel Fraser or The College Groves... and play it like 5 times. Teaches 'em a lesson without saying a word. Or maybe like a six part version of the Derry Hornpipe with all the variations.
I'm not too fond of those low, curdling, chromaticy fiddle reels that sound like something devised by a centenarian after contemplating a peculiarly twisted tree-root in the marshes of East Galway after reading a little too much Seamus Heaney. I can't name any but you'll know the sort of thing I mean. Not being able to play them may, of course, be an unworthy factor in my attitude to these, by some accounts, loved and respected jewels of the repertoire...
That's a translation of the first line of that Gaelic song I was so enchanted by the other night, sung by that colleen from Dervish / Altan / Danu / Clannad - I just knew it!!
I love the Gravel Walk. I can't understand the rest of your rant. I anm surprised that there is any ITM with some of the attitudes on this site. Why does a tune have to be a "show off" tune, or does that mean a tune some people can't play?
We used to play with a father and son, and the father hated a particular tune, so we would ask the son to play "The Tune your da Hates". That is the only name I know it by. I suspect many tunes got their name in a similar fashion, especially when you find a tune which has about 12 names.
ha! nicholas, the east galway composers such as paddy fahy, paddy kelly, sean ryan and vincent broderick (plus cavan/philadelphia man ed reavy who i believe you would include in your list of doom) are "it" for me---and i think your post is hilarious!
Some people effect to "hate" tunes just because they're popular with lots of people, and to say you "hate" them sort of sets you aside from the "riff-raff" who play them. So you think! But how wrong you are! So shame on you if you've nominated St Anne's, Harvest Home, Boys of Bluehill, Tamlin, Flowers, Danny Boy or She Begs For More. Knobheads!!! Why do you think they're so popular? Because they're great tunes, that's why! Just because Classic FM play Mozart's Clarinet Concerto every two minutes doesn't mean it's bad music. Show a little taste and (like all tunes), just don't overdo 'em. Snobs!! You'll be telling me next that the better the tune the less applause it gets!
I don't much care for Drowsy Maggie, partly because I think the B music is a real poor do and partly because the tune appears to engender over-fast and over-sloppy playing in fiddle players. Local experience only and an opinion well worth taking no notice of.
Okey, Danny Boy is not so bad Steve, but in my eyes Irish Washerwoman is terrible. It is BORING! and I have only heard it played a couple of times. I like to be separated from the "riff-raff", but not enought to make me dis-like tunes that are great; I love the Flowers of Edinbugh and the Boys of Blue Hill.
I think that tunes like "When Irish Eyes are Smilig" are only puplar because people like Frank Sinatra sang them so folks know them.
On the aside, I think that some people don't like those song, not because they are "popular" with the "riff-raff" but because they are played so many any time and revied so often that they have become dull and over worked. No longer aluring with the promise of something new and beautiful.
(sorry, gotta have one corny poetic moment a day ;) )
It's the way you play them!! I always hated the Irish Washerwoman until I heard the late Gerdie Commane from Kilnamona play it. The lift and rhythm he gave it made it sound like a great jig. Mind you having said all that, I've yet to hear anybody play Tamlin and make it sound like a good reel!
for the love of tunes sake!
for the love of tunes sake!
hi. simple question for ye all... what tunes in itm do ye love to hate!? and also what styles of playing do NOT tickle your fancy.. and most importantly, if you have any reason, WHY???? and well, even if you can't think of a reason.. sure blab it out anyhow!! mostly concerned with tunes but also style, do people who play too fast get on your nerves because you can't hear all the notes or something.. or when people play slow does in annoy you because it's dead...
now, with out any diversions to the subject, the floor is yours!!!!
all the best, and thanks.
a very curios martin t!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by martin t
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I passionately HATE Bill Sullivan's Polka. I refuse to play it, and sometimes, when it is played, I leave the room.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Red Crow
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
How could anyone possibly answer this? Do you not know that no-one listens to ITM, they just play it,. The gospel according to Llig.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
teh, I Listen to it! While I am doing school.
Persionally, I HATE When Irish Eyes are Smiling and the Irish Washer Woman. Which is usualy what I get when I ask any one if they know itm tunes. And Danny Boy. They are so cliche!!! And are usualy done very badly.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Eleiel
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Tunes I love to hate? Definitely any tune that is played way too fast and NOT very well either. If it's played well and at a nice clip then woohoo, but.. Yeeeeeeah.. Many nights have been ruined for me 'cause of it. It makes me sad =[
Red Crow, if I was responding as myself a year ago, I'd have to agree, but... Err.. actually... Yeah, maybe I do agree. It just depends who you play it with, really. =P
Cheers,
Armand
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't "hate" any tune. However, I sometimes have a violent dislike for sessions that play reels 95 % of the night.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Several people round our way seem to have taken a severe dislike to St Anne's Reel. Don't know why - I love it
And I've just got the lyrics for Danny Boy since we keep getting requests for it (at our beginners' session, for some reason...). I've no objection to playing the old chestnuts if that's what people want to hear - even if we're not actually performing - in fact we're practicing and it amazes me that people sit around and listen - and sometimes applaud? :-o
Perhaps it should concern me that we seem to get more applause at the practice session than we do at the paid session....
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Eleiel, here's some lyrics that many people can relate to. It's a great song by Robbie O'Connell called "You're Not Irish".
http://www.robbieoconnell.com/songbook/youre_not_Irish.html
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by MartySmith
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
well, i can't help but wonder if this is some wag's attempt to revive the furor of recent threads but, hey, i'll bite. i don't care for hyper-speed, though i have started to push myself to practice faster at home than i care to play in order to improve my chops and to be able to play for dancers, who do all seem to want super-fast dance tempos these days.
and, ahem, not to beat a dead horse or anything.....!!!***THOUGH THE PLAYERS ARE ALL FANTASTIC MUSICIANS OF GREAT VIRTUOSITY***!!!.....i do not care for ornamental styles with a high ornament to-melody quotient. on free reed instruments, i also find the current vogue for hyper-staccatissmo beebee-pellet barrages to be tiresome in the extreme and can't wait for it to go out of style, which it most certainly will.....i'm actually not into staccato ornamentation, period, though i listen all the time to concertina players who like staccato, such as tim collins, gearoid, & noel.....
the tunes i love to hate are the ones most likely to be massacred by players whose chops don't match their penchant for speed demonry. some of these are great tunes. i just have a skinnerian aversion to them due to negative conditioning. "gravel walks." "farewell to erin." "red crow." etc. there's something about A-major arpeggios that seems to bring out the worst in people....
having avoided altan for years due to the bad associations i have about them thanks to a contingent of horrifying altan-killers in my area, i was dumbfounded a week or two ago to watch their stuff on youtube and see what thoughtful and sensitive players they were, and how reasonable their tempos were!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by ceemonster
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
It has to be Saint Anne's. It always seems to make me feel vaguely car sick.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by sergeant fox
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Might not go as far as hate, but I've found recently that I will go through stages during which a particular tune will bore me to death. Some like that at the moment: Sally Gardens, St Anne's (it's all the straight runs up and down I think, bc_box_player) and George Whites Favourite. I really don't know why it's these particular tunes, but one remedy I've found is to find a new key to play a boring tune in. Doesn't help much for session playing though.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by kjay_bc_box
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
To my profound embarassment as a backer, I started to develop a deep love for rather slow, swingy and certainly tacky tunes (my flute player relates to them as "the crap tunes", which breaks my heart). So I started to love most hornpipes, with the Flowers of Edinburgh occupying the top of the list, as well as more cheesy highlands, flings and germans.
How are the things with you, Martin? Haven't heard from you lately.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by EastPole
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Excellent! A consensus of three against St. Anne!
This must make her eligible for martyrdom.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by oldstrings
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Seems like I've misread the original question... Damn... Back to the specsavers for me...
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by EastPole
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Even so, Janek, Flowers of Edinburgh is a hornpipe?
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by oldstrings
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Now don't you ruin it for me...
Jeez, I think it's not my day today... Shouldn't post before breakfast...
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by EastPole
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
We've had this discussion before under several different guises.
Usually, every popular tune in the wider repertoire gets a mention and then someone will argue that there's no such thing as a bad tune only the player. After which, MG will say "There are several bad tunes. In fact, there are too many tunes anyway"
Anyway, I generally love to hate tunes which fall into The Glasgow Reel/Tam Linn, Tongadale reel, or The Anvil family. These are dreadfully irritating as they encourage "show off" performances by fairly mediocre musicians where they start off slowly and deliberately speed up each time round.
Actually, the tunes aren't too bad when played at the regular pace..you get used to them, at least.
Perhaps, it is the player, not the tune!!!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Back for a while
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't like that Found Harmonium thingy, so can't be bothered to learn it. But my hate in the ITM repertoire is definitely The King Of The Fairies, which in most sessions I go to tends to become a dreary, sagging dirge. I can't imagine it as anything other than a depressant. Maybe some ancient harpist composed and named it for someone he didn't like.
But it's not the worst.
The worst (to me, that is) is a mediaeval French tune called The Horses' Branle ("Brawl").
It goes something like this:
Rhythm - 2/4
Key - G Major
Note Length - 1/8
Tempo - Ponderous
||: G>A BB|cB Ac|BA GF|E2 D2|....
(I realise it's THAT one, and look for an exit. But it is blocked by seventeen people playing hurdy-gurdies and huge extinct Mediaeval bagpipes.)
...|G>A BB|cB Ac|BG AF|G4 :||...
(What must it have been like to die of a surfeit of lampreys to this tune?)
||:d c/B/ AB|c B/A/ GB|AG FG|A2 A2|.....
(If I sham death, will someone carry me out?)
...|d c/B/ AB|c B/A/ GB|AG GF|G4 :||....
(I am looking up the skirts of Mediaeval culture, and seeing things I would much rather not.)
||: _B A/G/ _B A/G/ | FG A2|D>E FG|A_B AG|....
(This bit where it modulates is particularly gruesome. I am now at a Mediaeval banquet on a spit, with an apple in my mouth.)
...|_B A/G/ _B A/G/| FG A2|DE FG|GF G2:||
(This is only the end of the beginning.
But the tune has one surprising, but logical, virtue:
Anything sounds good after it.)
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nicholas
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Nicholas, are you, um, using what Coleridge was using when he wrote 'Kublai Khan'?
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by oldstrings
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
No, a couple of cups of cheap coffee sufficed. Perhaps it was laced with some dubious processing chemical.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nicholas
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
OK I'll bite....
Can't stand players that insist on playing everything in 'wierd' keys thereby ruling out half the players in the session (by virtue of the instruments they play, not their chops).. Every now and then it's nice, especially when its an old favourite that's given a new life in a different key, but that's not what I'm talking about. It's 'session' players that want to shake off the rest of the musicians.
Oh dear... I can feel the blood boil already
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nnicharra
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Tunes that are very similar in shape and phrasing to much better tunes.
Anyone who plays the same tempo and swing all night (fast, medium or slow - very swung or dead straight).
Anyone who plays too loud (especially strummers).
Bodhrans.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I tend to relate tunes to those who play them, which is unfortunate (ie, to personalise an abstract series of sound waves.)
If I don't like the player, I probably won't like such and such a tune. Brings back too many bad memories. Conversely a blighted tune may be rescued by a good person playing it. This is bad, I know, but there's no accounting for personal likes or dislikes.
So, in general, dreary rainy Galway reels and jaggy yet monotonous-sounding Donegal fiddle reels are a turn off for me due to the playing of certain personnae. Bright, sunny, happy Kerry polkas and slides get me going. Curiously, Donegal tunes have been redeemed since I played along some with a proper Donegal fiddle player. No name drops this time.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Yes, it's often difficult to tease out what are good tunes from mediocre players. I was listening to a tune being played the other night and thinking it was pretty dire. Then someone came back from the bar and joined in and I completely changed my mind. However, this does not negate the simple truth that some tunes are indeed just s h i t.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Ooohhh I love the way you got around the censorship there IIig
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nnicharra
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Currently I hate all tunes that are too fast, I can't figure out, and can't predict, and therefore can't play. Sheer envy.
One day I hope to hate all the tunes I currently play because they are too easy,.....but at the moment that feels 422.75 years away, and my 32nd great grandchildren will have to hate them for me!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I also have a special place in my heart for Tune for Found Harmonium (can we make it a consensus of three?) I hate 'Tá an coilleach ag fógairt an lá'. Don't like Bunker Hill or The Oak Tree. Don't like the boys of blue hill.
Thats me happy now, with my daily rant over.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Sinocal
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I'll put in a seconder for that Tongadale thing - it's a fiddler's show off piece isn't it?
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Dare I say Slides played as jigs?
I can hear the can of worms opening!!!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nnicharra
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Yep, that's a good one, slides as jigs. Ooh that makes me cringe
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Groundhog Day! No I shouldn't really say that as new members join the Yellow Board all the time and are equally entitled to their contribution - it's like someone cringing when Miss McCleod is started up without realising that there's a first time for everyone to hear and play it! I would have probably resisted joining in but I have to second John J's comments 100% and I'd also like to add the Mason's Apron as another of those annoying tunes. I must disagree though with the apparent consensus on St Anne's particularly when played after the Teetotaller where I think it makes a great combination - also I still say the Kesh is one of the best jigs of all time and I never tire of playing it!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Bannerman
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
One - Brenda Stubbert's
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by lazyhound
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I like St. Anne's; it's just a mite fussy to play and has that G# at the top - that's the prob., spot of difficulty can threaten self-esteem!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nicholas
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I like St. Anne's Reel! I like just about every tune. Except the Irish Washerwoman. Yeah, I guess the Found Harmonium thingie, but that's not really an Irish tune anyway.
Instead of saying what I don't like (even though that's the premise of the thread), I'll say what I DO like, what I look for in any session I go to----musicianship! People who play the tunes like they mean it, who try to give it some creativity, who vary the ornaments, who play the tunes slow enough to be ornamented and to have a little lift in them. It doesn't matter what style. People who play with feeling, with sensitivity---how can anyone not love that. I hope I get there one day!!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by kennedy
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
What's wrong with saying what you don't like? So you hate it when there's no musicianship? You hate it when people don't play the tunes like they mean it? When it's not creative? When there's no variation in the ornaments? When it's too fast to ornamented?When there's no lift?
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Yup, Michael, that's it, I hate it all!
Except I don't actually hate it. I honestly don't associate this music I love with hate. It's more a feeling of disappointment when I don't find it. And boredom---I swear it's just boring to listen to fast reels all night. Know what I mean?
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by kennedy
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
There is music I hate, though. Thrash metal. Britney Spears. Elevator music. Gangsta rap. That stuff makes me want to puncture my eardrums.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by kennedy
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I like them all, some more than others. If I don't know 'em, or don't feel I will add to the proceedings, I sit out--go to the head, or the bar. If I know one of the old favorite songs a person requests, I will sing it for them. It is all good to me. Music is a blessing.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by AlBrown
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't like D, G and related tunes that sport F naturals just for the sake of it. I don't mean splendid tunes like Give Me Your Hand, The Hag's Purse and The Yellow Tinker (if I've got the last two names right), I mean less than splendid new ones that set out to be wacky.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nicholas
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
isn't sake an alcoholic drink from Japan?
I'm therefore presuming that 'tunes Sake' is a brand of Sake.
And it must be nice if you love it.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by session savage
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
You had me worried there Nicholas until you gave some examples. Others include The Cook in the Kitchen, The Duke of Leinster's Wife, The Hunt set dance - it's amazing how one note can give such character to a tune!
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Bannerman
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't know if I hate any of The Tunes. I was already sick of The Irish Washerwoman forty years ago, but just last year I heard it played gracefully and without irony or farce and it was quite nice. I think what happens is that we really do come to *love* to hate some tunes. It becomes a reflexive response - a sort of self-justifying thing. Am I making any sense? At some level, it's like I'm *supposed* to hate this tune, so I do. I'm not refering to social pressure, but emotional habit. Or summat.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Bob himself
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
For no good reason I hate playing Si Beg Si Mor, which, since I play the harp, is oft requested of me. Don't really enjoy playing Flowers of Edinburgh, Miss McLeod's or St Anne's, but I'll play along anyway.
Fortunately I haven't encountered the Horses' Branle in a US session, and it isn't that monotonous when played for the renaissance dance it goes with. Well, yes it is, but at least there's a point to it.
I never refuse a request to play Danny Boy because I never know but what the requester may have a loved one deployed to a dangerous place, or if they're my parents' age, is a WWII veteran, or my age a Vietnam vet. If this song brings them comfort, so be it.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Tracie
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't get tired of playing Si Bheag Si Mhor, but I get tired of being *asked* to play it when I'd rather spend my little time slice on something else. I actually enjoy playing it, even when I'm home alone, just because it's a challenge to make something of such a simple little tune without making too much of it.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Bob himself
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I'm still very much a beginner, and certainly guilty of every playing-related offence listed in the preceding 42 comments - and then some - so I'll hold off on the stone-throwing until I'm out of this glass house. Which should happen in, what, twenty years or so?
Tunewise, there's not much in this genre I hate. That said, for some reason I've yet to hear an A major tune I really love. I've got thirty-odd tunes in my repertoire, and my two least favourite are the two in A major. I don't think it's the key so much as the fact that these two tunes (Miss McClouds and Ger the Rigger - both of which, to be fair, are growing on me) live entirely on the A and E strings, and my tastes tend to run a bit darker. (I prefer the viola to the fiddle as an instrument, and would have taken up the former if anything worthwhile had been written for it.) Mind you, I play some tunes in Amix that hit the G on the D string only once or twice before going back up high, and I like those ones a lot, so.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
As for tunes, i don't dislike too many, but I do hate an over-ornamented Banjo style, especially one that is reliant on bluegrass-type ornamentation.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Backer
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Bluegrass ornamentation... I'm trying to imagine what that means, Backer.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Bob himself
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Time to head for the toilet when The Pinch of Snuff is started. But it goes on for ever, and is usually still in full flow when I return.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by disillusioned
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
When the damaged tunes that have been beat to death for years come up I try to imagine what they would sound like if I were hearing them for the first time. If you can successfully do this you will rescue most of the tunes mentioned on this thread. Just about any of the cool new tunes we learn today could potentially suffer the same fate if played for decades by every beginner whistle player and then pummeled to death by speed demons at every session. It reminds me of the scene in 'A Clockwork Orange' where the main character was conditioned through torture to feel sick whenever he saw what he craved for.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Oh, and the much-maligned Tamlin? Love it, love it, love it. Love hearing it, love playing it, love playing it too damned fast for my own good or anyone else's, and I freely admit that my rendition of it is positively wretched. Which is why I tend not to play it in public.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't have many tunes, but I get awfully sick of The Gravel Walk and a few other show-offy tunes.
If I find someone doing that too often it's time to whip out a piping specialty like Colonel Fraser or The College Groves... and play it like 5 times. Teaches 'em a lesson without saying a word. Or maybe like a six part version of the Derry Hornpipe with all the variations.
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by Hanley
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I'm not too fond of those low, curdling, chromaticy fiddle reels that sound like something devised by a centenarian after contemplating a peculiarly twisted tree-root in the marshes of East Galway after reading a little too much Seamus Heaney. I can't name any but you'll know the sort of thing I mean. Not being able to play them may, of course, be an unworthy factor in my attitude to these, by some accounts, loved and respected jewels of the repertoire...
# Posted on March 1st 2007 by nicholas
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
My dear boy, hasn't anybody told you not to eat the little brown mushrooms?
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by Robert Ryan
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
That's a translation of the first line of that Gaelic song I was so enchanted by the other night, sung by that colleen from Dervish / Altan / Danu / Clannad - I just knew it!!
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I love the Gravel Walk. I can't understand the rest of your rant. I anm surprised that there is any ITM with some of the attitudes on this site. Why does a tune have to be a "show off" tune, or does that mean a tune some people can't play?
We used to play with a father and son, and the father hated a particular tune, so we would ask the son to play "The Tune your da Hates". That is the only name I know it by. I suspect many tunes got their name in a similar fashion, especially when you find a tune which has about 12 names.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
ha! nicholas, the east galway composers such as paddy fahy, paddy kelly, sean ryan and vincent broderick (plus cavan/philadelphia man ed reavy who i believe you would include in your list of doom) are "it" for me---and i think your post is hilarious!
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by ceemonster
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Like that one Bliss - "The Tune your da Hates". Once you say you don't like this or that, everyone will pick on it for divilment.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
It's very simple: The Harvest Home is the biggest holy disaster of a tune in the canon.
# Posted on March 2nd 2007 by darinkelly
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Some people effect to "hate" tunes just because they're popular with lots of people, and to say you "hate" them sort of sets you aside from the "riff-raff" who play them. So you think! But how wrong you are! So shame on you if you've nominated St Anne's, Harvest Home, Boys of Bluehill, Tamlin, Flowers, Danny Boy or She Begs For More. Knobheads!!! Why do you think they're so popular? Because they're great tunes, that's why! Just because Classic FM play Mozart's Clarinet Concerto every two minutes doesn't mean it's bad music. Show a little taste and (like all tunes), just don't overdo 'em. Snobs!! You'll be telling me next that the better the tune the less applause it gets!
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
I don't much care for Drowsy Maggie, partly because I think the B music is a real poor do and partly because the tune appears to engender over-fast and over-sloppy playing in fiddle players. Local experience only and an opinion well worth taking no notice of.
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
And I should have said "affect." Just the one brain cell remaining.
# Posted on March 3rd 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Okey, Danny Boy is not so bad Steve, but in my eyes Irish Washerwoman is terrible. It is BORING! and I have only heard it played a couple of times. I like to be separated from the "riff-raff", but not enought to make me dis-like tunes that are great; I love the Flowers of Edinbugh and the Boys of Blue Hill.
I think that tunes like "When Irish Eyes are Smilig" are only puplar because people like Frank Sinatra sang them so folks know them.
On the aside, I think that some people don't like those song, not because they are "popular" with the "riff-raff" but because they are played so many any time and revied so often that they have become dull and over worked. No longer aluring with the promise of something new and beautiful.
(sorry, gotta have one corny poetic moment a day ;) )
# Posted on March 5th 2007 by Eleiel
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
It's the way you play them!! I always hated the Irish Washerwoman until I heard the late Gerdie Commane from Kilnamona play it. The lift and rhythm he gave it made it sound like a great jig. Mind you having said all that, I've yet to hear anybody play Tamlin and make it sound like a good reel!
# Posted on March 6th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Bannerman - Donnell Leahy plays Tamlin four times, beautifully, in the second half of the tune _B Minor_ from Leahy's first album. Here he is playing an abridged version, two minutes into this video: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1160980671942335614&hl=en-GB
If that fails to move you, then you have no soul.
# Posted on March 10th 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Glad to meet someone with a sense of humour T, D & M!!!
# Posted on March 10th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: for the love of tunes sake!
Oh, but I'm deadly serious about this. ;)
# Posted on March 10th 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious