Argh...I'm a bit frustrated. I'm in charge of teaching several flute and whistle players (mostly younger than me, ages nine or ten to fifteen or sixteen) and I don't really feel I know what I'm doing. In fact, I don't know what to compare my teaching to as there aren't many Irish whistle/flute players around. I review and introduce technique and teach tunes, but I don't feel like we're getting much of anywhere. Maybe I'm just impatient because they are improving gradually, but there aren't really any breakthroughs style- or skill-wise in a year or two and I really want them to know, corniness aside, how amazing the music is and can be.
What should I expect and how can I help more? I give some of them private lessons but either way, I don't know how to instill a love for the music in them, especially when they express disinterest, except by having them listen to good Irish music and flute and whistle players. Now, I know you can't make anybody love anything, but how do I encourage? Argh, again. Well, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks thanks many thanks ~ Sarah
(Ha, is it just me or do I sould like a Dear Abby submission...::smirk:
Why are they taking lessons if they're not interested in the music? Are their parents pushing them? I've taught kids before, but only if *they* want to learn...it's not up to the parents. Case in point is my own son. He took piano for a while but it didn't inspire him. Since he switched to guitar, though, I've never once had to remind him to practice...he just comes home from school and plays, every day, for the love of it. He's on the instrument *he* wants to play, playing the kind of music that boils his oatmeal.
The fact that they keep coming back shows some degree of interest surely? Perhaps they should be encouraged to practice more.. little and often rather than trying to cram the day before the class pays off best.
Sarah, Have you thought about introducing them to the social dimension? Maybe there are sessions somewhere in the area where other young people play that they might be able to join. If not then it might be possible to run one of your own say once a month. Also you might recommend that they attend festival events such as fleadh cheoils, etc. where again they would get to meet other musicians of their own age. From my own limited experience trying to teach children, the class is only a means to an end as it's the other activities that allow them to develop their musical skills and provide the motivation that is so necessary to succeed.
Hi Sarah,
When teaching my own kids Irish music, I began by talking to them about whether they really wanted to learn and play Irish music. One of them really loves it, and the other clearly would rather play classical, and is only marginally interested. Once you get that out on the table, the rest is easier. Neither of them were practicing enough. However, the younger one had repeatedly stated that he truly was interested in playing Irish. Once I knew that, I could tell him the price for his interest. I told him he needed to practice daily, and that he needed to spend time doing careful listening to the music, and that he really needed to slow down and play with the metronome. I told him that if he didn't do his homework, that I would stop teaching him. At that point, he showed me he was really interested, and he made a lot of progress on his own. Teaching him has gotten easier. On the other hand, I'm not pushing the older one, because he is interested in other things.
The other aspect to teaching the kids is giving them something that is interesting for them, and is at their level of playing, and encouraging them to play at a nice slow pace at first. Patience is vital.
I've known a young man who needed little more than a few Irish CDs, a quite room and four months of practise and he blew the socks off everybody at our session. He just took to it like a duck to water. He's now playing New York sessions (yes, they give him a mic!) and he's only getting better.
But that seems to be an exception rather than the rule.
I like Bannerman's post a lot. Social dimension! I wonder if perhaps you could present a challange for your students as well. Something like learning a set of reels to be played at (insert high BPM here) at your local session. I recommend a higher speed because speed does lend itself to a sense of excitement and the kids tend to love it! Furthermore, your students will play that set at your local session in six weeks time.
The challange could have the effect of giving the kids a sense of purpose to the classes and the practise and the work. Plus, the encouragement and attention from the adults at session could open up new doors for them.
I agree with Bannerman, but as Will says, the first thing is to find out whether they're truly interested, Sarah. If they're there because their parents want them there, they're not going to learn anything fun at all -- it's just drudgery, and what good's that?
Have a talk with each kid privately, just a short one, and ask them point blank if they want to be there. They'll generally tell you. If they don't want to be there, take the parent aside at the end of class or call during the week, and tell them that their kid doesn't want to be there and isn't having fun and isn't learning anything.
Now, if they DO want to be there and still aren't making progress, definitely take Bannerman's advice into consideration. Something I've found to help is to get experienced musicians into the act. Bring in three players and have them play some tunes as a group for the kids. Afterwards, have them play WITH the kids on the tunes the kids know. Or take them to a slow session somewhere, even a manufactured one, especially one out in public somewhere.
If the players are kind to them, if they hold the tempo to one the kids can reach, and if the kids feel that they acquitted themselves well, then I almost guarantee that you're going to find more interest in the future, especially if they liked the players you brought in or took them to.
We have kids come into our slow session all the time. We generally ask them what tunes they know throughout the session and play them at their speed. We are as encouraging as we know how to be the whole time. Sometimes we teach them a simple tune. We laugh and talk a lot between tunes to emphasize the social aspect. Parents usually report that the kids are all charged up afterwards.
Hi,
At the moment I teach a 5yr old the fiddle, (Thanks all you guys who gave me advice) And I've introduced her to the scocial side to music even though she's nowhere near good enough to play at a session, she has learnt that "fiddle lessons with uncle dafydd" are a fun thing to do (or at least she appears to at least) I'd try to create a scocial bond with your students, it might pay off....
S-
I am a member of SLIA. Formerly part of the adult dance class. Took whistle from Linda for a couple of years.
I have been teaching piano lessons since I was sixteen!! . I am now......let's say that my son must turned 30....ok, I'm old.
I understand your frustration. Please email me from your personal email, and I will give you my tele. no. I would love to talk to you about this. I live in the Krkwd-WG area (Glendale). I also teach at Parkway...7th graders...and I believe thatI could teach anyone after years of 7th grade!!
My youngest student began when he was in Kindergarten, and my oldest was 71!!!
I study Irish piano in West Virginia during Irish Week each year. I think that I am the only Irish pianist in St. Louis. Irish ceolis and set dances, also solo tunes.
We do this in Augusta (Ir. wk.) and it is great! I have been taught by Donna Long (Cherish the Ladies) Brendan Dolan (son of Phelix who has a cd with Joe Burke.) and Bob McQuillen. Last year I was on independent study, and we had to write and perform accompaniments while Brenda played flute!! in front of the entier school and teachers!!
Anyway, give me an email-yell, and I willl give you my no. I would love to play at a weekendsessiun....if there is such is thing.
Mary Kathryn
Teaching
Teaching
Argh...I'm a bit frustrated. I'm in charge of teaching several flute and whistle players (mostly younger than me, ages nine or ten to fifteen or sixteen) and I don't really feel I know what I'm doing. In fact, I don't know what to compare my teaching to as there aren't many Irish whistle/flute players around. I review and introduce technique and teach tunes, but I don't feel like we're getting much of anywhere. Maybe I'm just impatient because they are improving gradually, but there aren't really any breakthroughs style- or skill-wise in a year or two and I really want them to know, corniness aside, how amazing the music is and can be.
What should I expect and how can I help more? I give some of them private lessons but either way, I don't know how to instill a love for the music in them, especially when they express disinterest, except by having them listen to good Irish music and flute and whistle players. Now, I know you can't make anybody love anything, but how do I encourage? Argh, again. Well, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks thanks many thanks ~ Sarah
(Ha, is it just me or do I sould like a Dear Abby submission...::smirk:
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by Sa'rah
Re: Teaching
Why are they taking lessons if they're not interested in the music? Are their parents pushing them? I've taught kids before, but only if *they* want to learn...it's not up to the parents. Case in point is my own son. He took piano for a while but it didn't inspire him. Since he switched to guitar, though, I've never once had to remind him to practice...he just comes home from school and plays, every day, for the love of it. He's on the instrument *he* wants to play, playing the kind of music that boils his oatmeal.
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Teaching
The fact that they keep coming back shows some degree of interest surely? Perhaps they should be encouraged to practice more.. little and often rather than trying to cram the day before the class pays off best.
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Teaching
Sarah, Have you thought about introducing them to the social dimension? Maybe there are sessions somewhere in the area where other young people play that they might be able to join. If not then it might be possible to run one of your own say once a month. Also you might recommend that they attend festival events such as fleadh cheoils, etc. where again they would get to meet other musicians of their own age. From my own limited experience trying to teach children, the class is only a means to an end as it's the other activities that allow them to develop their musical skills and provide the motivation that is so necessary to succeed.
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by Bannerman
Re: Teaching
Excellent idea, Bannerman!
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Teaching
Hi Sarah,
When teaching my own kids Irish music, I began by talking to them about whether they really wanted to learn and play Irish music. One of them really loves it, and the other clearly would rather play classical, and is only marginally interested. Once you get that out on the table, the rest is easier. Neither of them were practicing enough. However, the younger one had repeatedly stated that he truly was interested in playing Irish. Once I knew that, I could tell him the price for his interest. I told him he needed to practice daily, and that he needed to spend time doing careful listening to the music, and that he really needed to slow down and play with the metronome. I told him that if he didn't do his homework, that I would stop teaching him. At that point, he showed me he was really interested, and he made a lot of progress on his own. Teaching him has gotten easier. On the other hand, I'm not pushing the older one, because he is interested in other things.
The other aspect to teaching the kids is giving them something that is interesting for them, and is at their level of playing, and encouraging them to play at a nice slow pace at first. Patience is vital.
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by dirk
Re: Teaching
I've known a young man who needed little more than a few Irish CDs, a quite room and four months of practise and he blew the socks off everybody at our session. He just took to it like a duck to water. He's now playing New York sessions (yes, they give him a mic!) and he's only getting better.
But that seems to be an exception rather than the rule.
I like Bannerman's post a lot. Social dimension! I wonder if perhaps you could present a challange for your students as well. Something like learning a set of reels to be played at (insert high BPM here) at your local session. I recommend a higher speed because speed does lend itself to a sense of excitement and the kids tend to love it! Furthermore, your students will play that set at your local session in six weeks time.
The challange could have the effect of giving the kids a sense of purpose to the classes and the practise and the work. Plus, the encouragement and attention from the adults at session could open up new doors for them.
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by Caoimghgin
OK! Forget about the fast tempo. I take it back!
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Teaching
I agree with Bannerman, but as Will says, the first thing is to find out whether they're truly interested, Sarah. If they're there because their parents want them there, they're not going to learn anything fun at all -- it's just drudgery, and what good's that?
Have a talk with each kid privately, just a short one, and ask them point blank if they want to be there. They'll generally tell you. If they don't want to be there, take the parent aside at the end of class or call during the week, and tell them that their kid doesn't want to be there and isn't having fun and isn't learning anything.
Now, if they DO want to be there and still aren't making progress, definitely take Bannerman's advice into consideration. Something I've found to help is to get experienced musicians into the act. Bring in three players and have them play some tunes as a group for the kids. Afterwards, have them play WITH the kids on the tunes the kids know. Or take them to a slow session somewhere, even a manufactured one, especially one out in public somewhere.
If the players are kind to them, if they hold the tempo to one the kids can reach, and if the kids feel that they acquitted themselves well, then I almost guarantee that you're going to find more interest in the future, especially if they liked the players you brought in or took them to.
We have kids come into our slow session all the time. We generally ask them what tunes they know throughout the session and play them at their speed. We are as encouraging as we know how to be the whole time. Sometimes we teach them a simple tune. We laugh and talk a lot between tunes to emphasize the social aspect. Parents usually report that the kids are all charged up afterwards.
Hope something in here helps!
Zina
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Teaching
Hi,
At the moment I teach a 5yr old the fiddle, (Thanks all you guys who gave me advice) And I've introduced her to the scocial side to music even though she's nowhere near good enough to play at a session, she has learnt that "fiddle lessons with uncle dafydd" are a fun thing to do (or at least she appears to at least) I'd try to create a scocial bond with your students, it might pay off....
# Posted on January 18th 2003 by Dafydd Monks
Re: Teaching
S-
I am a member of SLIA. Formerly part of the adult dance class. Took whistle from Linda for a couple of years.
I have been teaching piano lessons since I was sixteen!! . I am now......let's say that my son must turned 30....ok, I'm old.
I understand your frustration. Please email me from your personal email, and I will give you my tele. no. I would love to talk to you about this. I live in the Krkwd-WG area (Glendale). I also teach at Parkway...7th graders...and I believe thatI could teach anyone after years of 7th grade!!
My youngest student began when he was in Kindergarten, and my oldest was 71!!!
I study Irish piano in West Virginia during Irish Week each year. I think that I am the only Irish pianist in St. Louis. Irish ceolis and set dances, also solo tunes.
We do this in Augusta (Ir. wk.) and it is great! I have been taught by Donna Long (Cherish the Ladies) Brendan Dolan (son of Phelix who has a cd with Joe Burke.) and Bob McQuillen. Last year I was on independent study, and we had to write and perform accompaniments while Brenda played flute!! in front of the entier school and teachers!!
Anyway, give me an email-yell, and I willl give you my no. I would love to play at a weekendsessiun....if there is such is thing.
Mary Kathryn
# Posted on January 3rd 2004 by mkvictor