Hi all I just discovered this wonderful website (lots of helpful hints and tips laying around!), and thought I would pose this question to y'all, as it's been bugging me for a while. I just started playing the fiddle over Christmas break, and had time to get a few lessons in before coming back to school, but now I'm back to learning on my own. I've heard a lot about "playing by ear' and 'learning tunes by ear', but I don't really get how to do it. Theoretically it's a wonderful idea, because I have lots of fiddle music that I listen to practically every day, but how in the world am I supposed to get what's in my head to come out of the instrument?? I've tried picking some basic songs out on it, and it just doesn't come out well at all.....any ideas?? Thanks!!
Here's something you can try... make a recording with just one tune that you want to learn on it played over and over. Listen to this recording as you're doing things unrelated to playing i.e. driving to work or school, house cleaning, walking, cooking etc. And after a while you'll hear it in your head the same way you have things like Christmas carols and such in there. When it's in your head like that, get your fiddle out and play along just long enough to make sure you start in the right key i.e. D, G, A, etc. Then stop the recording and try to pick out the tune from memory. If you forget a bit, switch on the recording to remind yourself how it went, and then switch it back off and pick it up from there. When you've figured out where the notes are basically and can play through the basic tune, try playing along with the recording to see how close you got. You'll be able to pick up more subtle things at that point.
The short answer is practice. But if you have the music in you, your body will find a way. Playing by ear is an art and dont give up... even if someone tells you that what your doing is wrong. Decide that YOU are in control of what is right and wrong. Because if what you say is true... that the music is in your head then it will come out...and you are farther along than alot of people.
I dont mean to use your post as a venting opportunity, but as a traditional player I am about sick of hearing the music school version, classically trained version of fiddling or fluting or whatever! This has been bugging me lately and so Im letting it out. There are SOME classically trained, Berkley types who get it BUT just go and listen to John Doherty or Tommy Peoples and the fire is in it! Traditional music is so much deeper than music on a page...and I like it with a little dirt on it. I started when I was 12 and Im 36 now and I am just beginning to get it... Matt Molloy was talking in an interview and he said hes just getting it... Ive reached a point where I am putting my 36 years of life next to what I want to accomplish with trad music and Im wishing the average lifespan was much longer. Ok Im finished.
NO IM NOT! I am disgusted when I go to a session and 2-3 classically trained fiddlers are reading notes from a page and their bow strokes are in perfect unison. I am pleased when one of them looks at me and my bow is going the opposite direction of theirs.. AND I pat myself on the back when they cringe at my technique.
You are certainly on the right track by listening to the music everyday. I believe that if you listen constantly, the general feel of the music will start to imbed itself in your mind and the note progression and rhythms will become logical and predictable. PB's method of getting a tune into your brain so that you can hum it or diddle it before you attempt to play it is the tried and true way. Recent technological developments have made it much easier to learn tunes by allowing you to reduce the speed of recordings without altering the pitch. These are available as computer software or digital recorders. ITM tunes usually consist of phrases, and I usually find myself learning tunes by getting the first phrase and then building on that with the next one. If a tune has two parts (A & B) the A part will usually have two phrases which are basically the same, but end slightly differently. The B part follows the same pattern. Learn the first phrase of the A part, and get it down right. Then the second phrase of the A part will be easy with only a different ending. If you are passionate about the music, and you learn tunes by ear, you will develop tricks of your own, and will be amazed by how much easier it gets after about a year. Keep at it. The rewards are very gratifying.
Hi FiddleLassie, congratulations on your new project! I'm a beginning fiddler myself (8 months), and I must say, I doubt your problem is that you can't pick out tunes by ear---I think it's that you don't know how to play the instrument yet. I can learn tunes just fine, could from the very beginning, but there's a big difference between that and knowing enough technique to make them sound like what you hear in your head. Fiddle has a very steep learning curve and it takes years to get it right.
If you can't get more lessons (which are the best way to learn), try to meet other fiddlers who might be willing to show you a few things, watch how you play, and guide you a little. Failing that, I would try to look for some teaching videos---search this website for suggestions, some are more for advanced players than beginners. I've heard Matt Cranitch has a good book and cd combo out. Oh, and Violin Masterclass is excellent for learning technique, even if it is classical:
The only other thing that I can think of is planning to attend a fiddle workshop or festival somewhere---you can bring a digital recorder with you and get enough material to last you weeks or months.
When I first started learning by ear I remeber playing a really common tune like 42 pound float or something and it took me days and days of listening and rewinding and listening and rewinding (before such magical inventions of computer software and cds and ipods etc. Now if it takes more than say 5 or 10 mins then its a tough tune. Its just pracise and more practise - PB is spot on with the listening until you get a tune into your head and can hum it - thats what I do and it works really well for me.
To Hell: People turn up to your session and read the dots off the page? Really? I feel sorry for you -that'd really annoy me too -it just isnt done here and its just accepted that noone turns up with dots on a page....
I understand your problem and it will take some time.
I'm 37 and recently took up tenor Banjo. Many songs I am trying to learn are Newfoundland tunes that I've heard on a weekly ( almost daily) basis since I was born. So I know the songs. But trying to put the songs to the mind then each hand is very difficult. For me, my right hand is good, my left is progressing, but I can't put what I'm hearing into my fingers. I practice 3-4 hours per day (parental leave) and it's getting easier every time but I would think it'll be a few years before I'll play in public.
I can play a few tunes with the sheet music in front of me but if it's taken away you might as well take away my instrument as well. All my playing friends keep telling me to just play. Put on the CD and play along. As the old saying goes. Play till your fingers bleed.
I used to think that learning tunes by ear was some magical skill that only prodigies possessed, and that there was no way that mere mortals such as myself would ever learn how to do it. I had this notion that it consisted of musical geniuses with perfect pitch listening to a tune once, and then being able to play it.
Apparently there are some people who CAN do that, but I'm certainly not one of them, but I've still managed to pick up a number of tunes in the five months since I've started going to sessions.
This is how I pick up tunes at sessions (picking them up from recordings is different, and easier, and others have covered that quite well already):
First, I have never at the session actually *chosen* which tunes I'm going to learn by ear; they've chosen me. The ones I've learned by ear aren't even necessarily tunes that I particularly love; rather, what they have in common is that they're are the ones that are slow enough that I can hum them (or I can mentally slow them down enough to hum them!), or they're particularly repetitive, or that for whatever reason they (or bits of them) stick in my head for days on end. And as others have said, you have to know the tune before you can play it.
Once a tune has chosen me, I listen to it while it's being played in the session and hold my fiddle in my lap and pluck strings, trying to match notes. This is quiet enough as to be unobtrusive during the session - much quieter than bowing. But I don't just pluck strings willy-nilly. How much music theory do you know? Do you know about key signatures? As Dan says, you should learn where the notes are on your fiddle, as this will help you figure out keys. I first try to first pick out the notes that are at the ends of the parts of the tune; this helps me get key signatures. A tune that ends on a D is almost always in D major, though on occasion it's in D mixolydian, and less often in D minor...but I digress. i go from there, trying to find another handful of notes here and there - if I'm finding C#'s instead of C's, I've almost certainly got a tune in D major. (You might be able to distinguish, say, between a major and a minor key tune already; if not, this may eventually come naturally as well.) Anyway, this restricts me to a smaller number of notes, so if I hear, say, a bunch of notes in a D major tune that run up a scale starting on G, it's a reasonably safe bet that I can skip the B flats and the C naturals. This speeds things up, which is useful when it comes to figuring out tunes in real time at the session, when they're being played pretty fast.
I keep doing this until the musicians have moved on to another tune. By this point, I know the key of the tune; I know a few bars; and I have the overall feel of the tune. The problem I often run into is, I often don't know which parts of the tune I know for sure, and which parts I just kind of know, and which parts I've just made up completely (or assimilated from other similar-sounding tunes that are kicking about in my head). What I do, is I go home and I practice the tune that's in my head, which tends to be a relative of the one I've heard at the session. (Sometimes it's a sibling; other times it's a third cousin twice removed.) the next time I'm at the session, I again pluck strings when the tune comes up; since I already know part of it already, I can focus on the parts I don't know yet and learn them. When I know for sure which parts of the tune I actually know, I play along with those parts and sit out (or pluck strings) for the rest. This allows me to "fill in the blanks" of the tune. Sometimes I'll end up with simplified version of the tune - maybe 80-90% of the notes - with some of the really fast or difficult bits compressed or skipped entirely. This gives me a functional version of the tune that meshes decently with what the more experienced musicians can play, and since I'm still a beginner, I'll occasionally stick with the simpler version.
I'll repeat this process with my chosen tune(s) for a few weeks. Usually it takes three or four times before I learn the tune completely. Incidentally, aside from at my lessons, I NEVER learn tunes by ear beginning to end; I learn outlines of them first and then fill in the missing bits later.
Good luck! One thing I've found about learning by ear: I learn and retain music so much better that way. I used to play piano, and before that, recorder; I was taught with sheet music with both of those instruments, and in retrospect I realize that I was really dependent on it. Take away my sheet music, and my repertoire collapsed to nothing. Also, learning by ear has trained me to listen to music much more attentively than I ever did in my piano or recorder days; I'm forced to find patterns in the music I listen to, and this allows me to anticipate phrases even in new tunes, which in turn helps me learn faster.
But I saw a documentary on the way the brain works that explained to me why it is so hard at first. Ear learning and note reading use different parts of the brain. If you are a good site reader, then you've got not just a road, but a multi lane highway of neurological pathways from your eyes to where ever you process playing.......but when you switch to learning by ear, you need to access the other hemisphere of your brain....and so the messages take existing paths that meander for a bit....and actually to get from one side to the other, the brain has to do some fast rewiring....and that new re-wiring takes a lot of energy and makes you feel tired quite quickly.
The thing is, that if you do it often enough (the new activity) the brain eventually builds a new multilane highway that will function quickly.
Of course, there is an age thing, multilane highways between hemispheres that are laid down when you are young are super fast direct and efficient, and the ones that come about when you are older have to be built across some existing infrastructure.....so it's sort of like having a few fly-over's and traffic lights that slow you down a bit compared to kids.
Anyway - the explanation works for me. Every time I feel exhausted by the ear learning thing....I thank my brain rerouting road crew for the hard work.....and trust that eventually I'll get there!
Someone, (a neurologist,) explained it to me a little differently. They said your brain is like the outdoors where it's always snowing. If you go from point A to point B you can find your way back easily if you don't wait too long. If you go from point A to point B all the time you'll wear a groove on the path that you can still find after many days of snow. But if you wait too long even the old paths begin to get confused with one another. It's all about repetition.
I’m starting to think my brain has a global warming problem of some sort.
a year or two back i was in a daylong workshop with gearoid o'hallmhorhain and before teaching a tune by ear, he jovially remarked that he hoped no one would be traumatized, and that at a workshop in the past one time a woman had left the room in tears because she couldn't learn the tune by hearing it. i wasn't that person, but five years ago, i could have been.
the experience of learning how to learn music by ear was actually a character-improving, maturity-enhancing one for me. i had been only a music reader when i began playing irish music. i too was learning an unfamiliar instrument. and i simply could not get tunes by ear. i believed i "couldn't" learn by ear and was kind of hysterical over this. long story short, something gave somewhere and i grew up a little about it. i took three semesters of ear training at night at local colleges (they forced you to take a semester of theory simultaneously with each ear course, so ironically i ended up learning music theory up through classical fugue just to get the ear courses). in these classes, they drill you on solfege [recognizing scale notes by do-re-mi] and note intervals in ear class and in lab time with earphones. you had to write notes while listening to a melody, and conversely, you had to sing from sight.
that was, like, four years ago. i then used the practice i got in the classes with my itm tune-learning work, and today i can learn tunes by ear, recognize keys, nab that odd flat note, etc, just like a real traditional player. i learn tunes off of cds constantly [though like pb describes, i "tenderize" by listening a lot first]. these days i almost never use written music and can even get a totally unfamiliar tune fed to me line by line at a workshop or whatever, though to retain something completely unfamiliar, i would need to reinforce with lots of listening. but hey, even my own teacher, a master musician from an itm family in county clare who has been at it all his life, does the same---when learning tunes to perform or whatever, he pops a recording into his car tape player and drives around with it for a couple of weeks before he begins "learning by ear." i guess what i'm trying to say is that this is not some mystical gift that you either have or don't. it's a skill set, and you can get it with practice....
I was a music major and did the same ear training you describe. The thing about it is that you're learning to make something tangible out of the intangible. I felt as though I was developing a muscle in my ear during that training. It has been extremely beneficial with the ITM I have to say. But it was that experience that led me to conduct the experiment that I talked about in my first post.
Many of my tunes are learned by hearing them in sessions over and over year after year, and others are learned off of CDs. I usually have 6 CDs in my changer and I leave them in there to hear them repetitively and become familiar with the tunes before I sit down to learn any. I usually don’t do that until I start hearing the tune without the CD player on. The first tunes I hear in my head are usually the ones that surface as my favorites. Other than that, the other tunes I learn are on account of my friends playing them. The circumstance for getting them from my friends varies quite a bit, but they often get them from recordings I can track down as well. If I do that, then I approach learning them the same way by listening a lot first.
Of course… if I had perfect pitch things would be a lot easier I suppose.
My advice would be, especially in the early stages of learning, stay away from the dots altogether. I'm not saying that written music doesn't have its uses but there's far too much temptation to use it as a crutch in the early days (because at first it's easier to read than to remember and play by ear). But stick with it and you'll be glad in then end.
What hasn't been mentioned above is that keeping regular time is kinda necessary to make the tune come out right. When you're in the listening phase of learning a tune, tap your foot, shake your head or whatever in time with the music. When you play along with the tune ala PB above, tap your foot in time. This gives you a framework of time within to the fit the notes, guides you as to which notes to lift a little etc. .. makes the music come out right in short. Trust this helps.
True WH... in fact... some people who find it difficult to tap their foot whilst playing might benefit from deliberately tapping their foot whilst listening.
I could add that I had an interesting little 'revelation' this week. I picked up an accordion after not playing one for well over a year. Started playing several tunes that I had learnt in the interim period of the whistle/ flute on which I would learn mostly by ear. Found that I could play them fairly well after a few runs through just by ear. The curious thing is that at the time I stopped playing the box, I found it a great struggle to play by ear. Anyway this was most enjoyable and an insight..
I choose the next tune I want to learn from here, play the midi file on repeat on windows media to get the tune in my head while I'm in my office, try to play it later at home, then write a run-on sentence describing the whole thing.
Start out by playing the most simplest of tunes.
Start on any note you want, but an open string is easier.
Try "Frère Jacques"?
Try "ba ba black sheep"?
You may surprise your self that you can do it already.
A dictaphone can be a great tool for learning tunes, most of the cheap tape ones have a dual speed function and the 1/2 speed setting will lower the pitch exactly an octave, which is handy when you're starting out. But its deadly for recording off the radio, sessions or even get people you know to play tunes into it so you can learn them in your own time
I've also found that trying to learn simple tunes by ear first is the way to go. I hesitate to say it (I'm afraid I'll be decapitated for suggesting so), but it is also a good idea to learn songs like Whiskey In The Jar and Fields Of Athenry. I think songs are easier to learn because you can go back to singing the words to help remind you.
Wow, thanks for such quick replies!! I've gotten some really good ideas that I'll have to work on. I do have software that'll slow the songs down, so with that I ought to be able to manage something. Thanks so much!
I'm just going to reiterate llig and rob and others: start with childhood tunes that you know and can hum. Kids are often started this way and it works. I started with Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, Freres Jacques, etc. Then move on to simpler tunes -- most polkas (like Martin O'Connors) -- and tunes that fall easily within the rhythm (like the Kesh jig). But, be sure that you can hum/sing/lilt it first. And don't be afraid to use a slow downer program like Windows Media Player or the Amazing Slow Downer.
I have sort of the opposite experience. I've always learned music by ear, starting with guitar 20 years ago, moving into flute for the last five. It always seemed so natural.
As much as you think it's magic to learn by ear, I feel the same when I see someone looking at a piece of paper playing a tune they've never heard.
I'm now learning to read music. It feels impossible.
Learning by ear is yer only man - Fiddle Lassie! Just remember the words of Willie Clancy:
"I heard a man say something one time, and I think it was very wise: he says that jazz was the folk music of the Negro before it became "tin pan alleyed". That is what is happening to our Irish music today - that's a very sad case. You have men taking up their fiddles and just because they got a classical knowledge of the fiddle, they try to apply that classical knowledge to folk music which is a sacrilege. They can play Italian* music too, but they try to put Italian touches into the traditional Irish fiddle, and it's a catastrophe, in my opinion!"
Why not learn to read music and play by ear? Both are useful! I started out learning to read from sheetmusic (7yr olds have little choice in the way they learn an instrument and there aren't many traditional fiddlers or musicians in this area to learn from) and later on learned to play without. It was hard, but with practice the skill came. One way to pick up a tune is just to pick out either the higher notes or the notes that occur on the beat. When you have got those you can fill in the other notes round them. This also leaves you more room to do your own thing with the tune. You just have to choose the method that best suits the way you learn.
No. If the method that best suits the way you learn is from the dots, you will never be any good at this music. By all means learn to read music and play by ear, but always remember that if you can only play by ear, there is nothing barring you from becoming top notch. But if you only play by reading, there is no hope for you.
Llig I was trying to make the point that there are different ways of learning to play by ear and that Fiddlelassie should find the way of doing this that best suits her. Learning to read the dots is a useful technique but should not be relied upon as the sole means of learning this type of music.
Sorry, I was reacting to your last sentence "You just have to choose the method that best suits the way you learn." I'm sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick
That's ok. I'll forgive you...this time I suppose one thing that would really have helped me would be having some good trad players to learn from. I only know one who is self taught. He has been to many workshops and I try to learn from him whatever I can when he gets back. I wish I could go to the workshops but kids etc. make it impossible at the moment. Perhaps when I qualify for the oldies discussion I will be able to go.
Kheelch writes: "I choose the next tune I want to learn from here, play the midi file on repeat on windows media to get the tune in my head while I'm in my office, try to play it later at home, then write a run-on sentence describing the whole thing."
Careful, Kheelch, not everyone will recognize this as a p*ss take and might take you seriously. hahahaha
As a newcomer to this site I can add one thing, htese abc files are magic, just choose a tune you want to learn and set it to play on loop. If it going too fast for you then slow it down, underneath the
T: (name of tune)
M: (time signature)
R: (Type of tune)
and before
K: (key tune is played in)
you may find something like
Q: (a number which determines speed)
If there is then just change it to a lower number,
if there is not a "Q" setting then just add one and play around until you have got it at a speed that is comfortable to play along with.
Now comes the important part, as soon as you have got good enough to play along do not speed it up, do that later, first of all start changing the tune, make it your own, add a twiddle, put in a double stop, and try to play it slightly differently every time. The magic lies in changing the tune while keeping it the same, if it still sounds like the same tune you computer is playing, even though all the notes are different then you are there.
That is a long post, and most of it self evident, so I will shut up now, I am sure other people can fill in the rest .
i had a bit of a shock when i started on the fiddle a few months ago. I'd played guitar for years, using dots or playing by ear depending on whether it was classical or trad. i was playing. I was used to being able to pick up tunes relatively easily, however, the fiddle is completely different from the guitar, note wise and i was stumped for quite a while. I couldn't just plonk my finger down at a fret knowing that there would be the sound i was looking for. I was all over the place for quite a few weeks. So i would say that knowing where all the notes are on your fiddle, you don't nessecarily need to know their names to learn by ear, would help immensely with learning tunes.
And playing simple tunes, nursery rymes etc. is great advice. After all, if you can play them then you can play by ear
If you want to transcribe/learn tunes from recording I would suggest that you locate the A-B repeat loop on your CD player. Or get a portable with one (for example Panasonic).
Steps to Start: .1 Choose a slow & simple air (one that you have the dots to),
.2 Do a phrase landscape (ABBA etc), note the repeats and time segments
.3 Break the AB repeat to time slices you feel comfortable transcribing
(5//10/20//40 secs)
.4 Play the AB repeat loop and whistle it
.5 Play along with the segment – while whistling it at the same time
.6 ignore hammer-ons, cross picking, etc, note where they occur
.7 transcribe the notes onto a sheet with the AB time slice marked
.8 Compare the transcription with the dots, note where the errors are
.9 Then focus on the ornamentation and advanced phrases (5/10 sec)
(this will advance your playing to the next phase)
Be patient, it takes time.
For training your ear to hear chord progressions – ‘Harmonic Ear Training’ with Roberta Radley of Berklee [Hal Leonard] 0876390270 ASIN: B00029RRHS
Also- ‘One Note Complete’ by Bruce Arnold 1890944475
The bible for your music career (a 5* reference) ‘Hearing and Writing Music’ by Ron Gorow [Garow] 0962949671
I decided to take up the fiddle two years ago. This was after a long 25 year absence from any kind of formal musical training (I had a short two year stint as a trumpet player in grade school). I'm still baffled by keys, names of notes and other such nonsense that gets in the way of playing the music. However, in order to juggle all the stuff going on with learning new tunes and a new instrument, my first songs were taught by repetion but recorded in tablature. Once I got some of the songs under my belt, I used that knowledge to re-learn how to read music. Reading music is very important to be able to learn or communicate, and it gives you a common reference to start from. However, there is no way I can play a fiddle tune at regular speed and site read at the same time. I just goes too fast. So all my tunes are memorized, which amazes me that my head can hold so much (see the brain analogies above).
What I am finding now that I've got two years under my belt is that it is getting easier for me to sound out a tune than to learn it by reading the music. If I am stuck on a particular part, if I just play with it a little, I'll get it.
One key to this is that I am a good whistler, and I've finally been able to connect certain whistle notes with certain fiddle fingerings. It only works if I really know the tune first.
I still don't think I'm "playing by ear" yet, but I'm getting closer.
learning tunes by ear
learning tunes by ear
Hi all
I just discovered this wonderful website (lots of helpful hints and tips laying around!), and thought I would pose this question to y'all, as it's been bugging me for a while. I just started playing the fiddle over Christmas break, and had time to get a few lessons in before coming back to school, but now I'm back to learning on my own. I've heard a lot about "playing by ear' and 'learning tunes by ear', but I don't really get how to do it. Theoretically it's a wonderful idea, because I have lots of fiddle music that I listen to practically every day, but how in the world am I supposed to get what's in my head to come out of the instrument?? I've tried picking some basic songs out on it, and it just doesn't come out well at all.....any ideas?? Thanks!!
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by FiddleLassie
Re: learning tunes by ear
Here's something you can try... make a recording with just one tune that you want to learn on it played over and over. Listen to this recording as you're doing things unrelated to playing i.e. driving to work or school, house cleaning, walking, cooking etc. And after a while you'll hear it in your head the same way you have things like Christmas carols and such in there. When it's in your head like that, get your fiddle out and play along just long enough to make sure you start in the right key i.e. D, G, A, etc. Then stop the recording and try to pick out the tune from memory. If you forget a bit, switch on the recording to remind yourself how it went, and then switch it back off and pick it up from there. When you've figured out where the notes are basically and can play through the basic tune, try playing along with the recording to see how close you got. You'll be able to pick up more subtle things at that point.
G'luck
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: learning tunes by ear
The short answer is practice. But if you have the music in you, your body will find a way. Playing by ear is an art and dont give up... even if someone tells you that what your doing is wrong. Decide that YOU are in control of what is right and wrong. Because if what you say is true... that the music is in your head then it will come out...and you are farther along than alot of people.
I dont mean to use your post as a venting opportunity, but as a traditional player I am about sick of hearing the music school version, classically trained version of fiddling or fluting or whatever! This has been bugging me lately and so Im letting it out. There are SOME classically trained, Berkley types who get it BUT just go and listen to John Doherty or Tommy Peoples and the fire is in it! Traditional music is so much deeper than music on a page...and I like it with a little dirt on it. I started when I was 12 and Im 36 now and I am just beginning to get it... Matt Molloy was talking in an interview and he said hes just getting it... Ive reached a point where I am putting my 36 years of life next to what I want to accomplish with trad music and Im wishing the average lifespan was much longer. Ok Im finished.
NO IM NOT! I am disgusted when I go to a session and 2-3 classically trained fiddlers are reading notes from a page and their bow strokes are in perfect unison. I am pleased when one of them looks at me and my bow is going the opposite direction of theirs.. AND I pat myself on the back when they cringe at my technique.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by The Merry Highlander
Re: learning tunes by ear
You are certainly on the right track by listening to the music everyday. I believe that if you listen constantly, the general feel of the music will start to imbed itself in your mind and the note progression and rhythms will become logical and predictable. PB's method of getting a tune into your brain so that you can hum it or diddle it before you attempt to play it is the tried and true way. Recent technological developments have made it much easier to learn tunes by allowing you to reduce the speed of recordings without altering the pitch. These are available as computer software or digital recorders. ITM tunes usually consist of phrases, and I usually find myself learning tunes by getting the first phrase and then building on that with the next one. If a tune has two parts (A & B) the A part will usually have two phrases which are basically the same, but end slightly differently. The B part follows the same pattern. Learn the first phrase of the A part, and get it down right. Then the second phrase of the A part will be easy with only a different ending. If you are passionate about the music, and you learn tunes by ear, you will develop tricks of your own, and will be amazed by how much easier it gets after about a year. Keep at it. The rewards are very gratifying.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by jtrout
Re: learning tunes by ear
Hi FiddleLassie, congratulations on your new project! I'm a beginning fiddler myself (8 months), and I must say, I doubt your problem is that you can't pick out tunes by ear---I think it's that you don't know how to play the instrument yet. I can learn tunes just fine, could from the very beginning, but there's a big difference between that and knowing enough technique to make them sound like what you hear in your head. Fiddle has a very steep learning curve and it takes years to get it right.
If you can't get more lessons (which are the best way to learn), try to meet other fiddlers who might be willing to show you a few things, watch how you play, and guide you a little. Failing that, I would try to look for some teaching videos---search this website for suggestions, some are more for advanced players than beginners. I've heard Matt Cranitch has a good book and cd combo out. Oh, and Violin Masterclass is excellent for learning technique, even if it is classical:
http://violinmasterclass.com/mc_menu.php?PHPSESSID=f97fe87a56bda9bc27def7a29662ff4e
The only other thing that I can think of is planning to attend a fiddle workshop or festival somewhere---you can bring a digital recorder with you and get enough material to last you weeks or months.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by kennedy
Re: learning tunes by ear
When I first started learning by ear I remeber playing a really common tune like 42 pound float or something and it took me days and days of listening and rewinding and listening and rewinding (before such magical inventions of computer software and cds and ipods etc. Now if it takes more than say 5 or 10 mins then its a tough tune. Its just pracise and more practise - PB is spot on with the listening until you get a tune into your head and can hum it - thats what I do and it works really well for me.
To Hell: People turn up to your session and read the dots off the page? Really? I feel sorry for you -that'd really annoy me too -it just isnt done here and its just accepted that noone turns up with dots on a page....
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by bb
Re: learning tunes by ear
I understand your problem and it will take some time.
I'm 37 and recently took up tenor Banjo. Many songs I am trying to learn are Newfoundland tunes that I've heard on a weekly ( almost daily) basis since I was born. So I know the songs. But trying to put the songs to the mind then each hand is very difficult. For me, my right hand is good, my left is progressing, but I can't put what I'm hearing into my fingers. I practice 3-4 hours per day (parental leave) and it's getting easier every time but I would think it'll be a few years before I'll play in public.
I can play a few tunes with the sheet music in front of me but if it's taken away you might as well take away my instrument as well. All my playing friends keep telling me to just play. Put on the CD and play along. As the old saying goes. Play till your fingers bleed.
Good luck
I'm with ya.
Ken
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by salmoncove
Re: learning tunes by ear
Listen a whole bunch. You need to have a tune memorized, I tell you, before you can learn it - at least know what direction it goes in.
Play scales. Know what notes are where on the instrument. IMPORTANT.
Loosen up your bow hand. You need to focus on the fingering before the bowing, so let yourself play without obstruction.
Ornament as you go. I find it helps you signpost the tune and cement it in your head with little landmarkers of sorts.
...That's about all I've got. Oh, and have fun too!
--DtM
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: learning tunes by ear
Good for you, thwtmlslacoas. (may I call you thwt for short?) Spit it all out.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: learning tunes by ear
Hi, FiddleLassie,
I used to think that learning tunes by ear was some magical skill that only prodigies possessed, and that there was no way that mere mortals such as myself would ever learn how to do it. I had this notion that it consisted of musical geniuses with perfect pitch listening to a tune once, and then being able to play it.
Apparently there are some people who CAN do that, but I'm certainly not one of them, but I've still managed to pick up a number of tunes in the five months since I've started going to sessions.
This is how I pick up tunes at sessions (picking them up from recordings is different, and easier, and others have covered that quite well already):
First, I have never at the session actually *chosen* which tunes I'm going to learn by ear; they've chosen me. The ones I've learned by ear aren't even necessarily tunes that I particularly love; rather, what they have in common is that they're are the ones that are slow enough that I can hum them (or I can mentally slow them down enough to hum them!), or they're particularly repetitive, or that for whatever reason they (or bits of them) stick in my head for days on end. And as others have said, you have to know the tune before you can play it.
Once a tune has chosen me, I listen to it while it's being played in the session and hold my fiddle in my lap and pluck strings, trying to match notes. This is quiet enough as to be unobtrusive during the session - much quieter than bowing. But I don't just pluck strings willy-nilly. How much music theory do you know? Do you know about key signatures? As Dan says, you should learn where the notes are on your fiddle, as this will help you figure out keys. I first try to first pick out the notes that are at the ends of the parts of the tune; this helps me get key signatures. A tune that ends on a D is almost always in D major, though on occasion it's in D mixolydian, and less often in D minor...but I digress. i go from there, trying to find another handful of notes here and there - if I'm finding C#'s instead of C's, I've almost certainly got a tune in D major. (You might be able to distinguish, say, between a major and a minor key tune already; if not, this may eventually come naturally as well.) Anyway, this restricts me to a smaller number of notes, so if I hear, say, a bunch of notes in a D major tune that run up a scale starting on G, it's a reasonably safe bet that I can skip the B flats and the C naturals. This speeds things up, which is useful when it comes to figuring out tunes in real time at the session, when they're being played pretty fast.
I keep doing this until the musicians have moved on to another tune. By this point, I know the key of the tune; I know a few bars; and I have the overall feel of the tune. The problem I often run into is, I often don't know which parts of the tune I know for sure, and which parts I just kind of know, and which parts I've just made up completely (or assimilated from other similar-sounding tunes that are kicking about in my head). What I do, is I go home and I practice the tune that's in my head, which tends to be a relative of the one I've heard at the session. (Sometimes it's a sibling; other times it's a third cousin twice removed.) the next time I'm at the session, I again pluck strings when the tune comes up; since I already know part of it already, I can focus on the parts I don't know yet and learn them. When I know for sure which parts of the tune I actually know, I play along with those parts and sit out (or pluck strings) for the rest. This allows me to "fill in the blanks" of the tune. Sometimes I'll end up with simplified version of the tune - maybe 80-90% of the notes - with some of the really fast or difficult bits compressed or skipped entirely. This gives me a functional version of the tune that meshes decently with what the more experienced musicians can play, and since I'm still a beginner, I'll occasionally stick with the simpler version.
I'll repeat this process with my chosen tune(s) for a few weeks. Usually it takes three or four times before I learn the tune completely. Incidentally, aside from at my lessons, I NEVER learn tunes by ear beginning to end; I learn outlines of them first and then fill in the missing bits later.
Good luck! One thing I've found about learning by ear: I learn and retain music so much better that way. I used to play piano, and before that, recorder; I was taught with sheet music with both of those instruments, and in retrospect I realize that I was really dependent on it. Take away my sheet music, and my repertoire collapsed to nothing. Also, learning by ear has trained me to listen to music much more attentively than I ever did in my piano or recorder days; I'm forced to find patterns in the music I listen to, and this allows me to anticipate phrases even in new tunes, which in turn helps me learn faster.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: learning tunes by ear
Don't know if somebody has posted it already,
but ther new Window's media player has a function to slow down the tunes while keeping the pitch.
You can download it for free
S
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: learning tunes by ear
I'm still a beginner at the learning by ear.
But I saw a documentary on the way the brain works that explained to me why it is so hard at first. Ear learning and note reading use different parts of the brain. If you are a good site reader, then you've got not just a road, but a multi lane highway of neurological pathways from your eyes to where ever you process playing.......but when you switch to learning by ear, you need to access the other hemisphere of your brain....and so the messages take existing paths that meander for a bit....and actually to get from one side to the other, the brain has to do some fast rewiring....and that new re-wiring takes a lot of energy and makes you feel tired quite quickly.
The thing is, that if you do it often enough (the new activity) the brain eventually builds a new multilane highway that will function quickly.
Of course, there is an age thing, multilane highways between hemispheres that are laid down when you are young are super fast direct and efficient, and the ones that come about when you are older have to be built across some existing infrastructure.....so it's sort of like having a few fly-over's and traffic lights that slow you down a bit compared to kids.
Anyway - the explanation works for me. Every time I feel exhausted by the ear learning thing....I thank my brain rerouting road crew for the hard work.....and trust that eventually I'll get there!
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Oh...that would be 'sight' not 'site'. Brain road crew taking a break!
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: learning tunes by ear
Someone, (a neurologist,) explained it to me a little differently. They said your brain is like the outdoors where it's always snowing. If you go from point A to point B you can find your way back easily if you don't wait too long. If you go from point A to point B all the time you'll wear a groove on the path that you can still find after many days of snow. But if you wait too long even the old paths begin to get confused with one another. It's all about repetition.
I’m starting to think my brain has a global warming problem of some sort.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: learning tunes by ear
a year or two back i was in a daylong workshop with gearoid o'hallmhorhain and before teaching a tune by ear, he jovially remarked that he hoped no one would be traumatized, and that at a workshop in the past one time a woman had left the room in tears because she couldn't learn the tune by hearing it. i wasn't that person, but five years ago, i could have been.
the experience of learning how to learn music by ear was actually a character-improving, maturity-enhancing one for me. i had been only a music reader when i began playing irish music. i too was learning an unfamiliar instrument. and i simply could not get tunes by ear. i believed i "couldn't" learn by ear and was kind of hysterical over this. long story short, something gave somewhere and i grew up a little about it. i took three semesters of ear training at night at local colleges (they forced you to take a semester of theory simultaneously with each ear course, so ironically i ended up learning music theory up through classical fugue just to get the ear courses). in these classes, they drill you on solfege [recognizing scale notes by do-re-mi] and note intervals in ear class and in lab time with earphones. you had to write notes while listening to a melody, and conversely, you had to sing from sight.
that was, like, four years ago. i then used the practice i got in the classes with my itm tune-learning work, and today i can learn tunes by ear, recognize keys, nab that odd flat note, etc, just like a real traditional player. i learn tunes off of cds constantly [though like pb describes, i "tenderize" by listening a lot first]. these days i almost never use written music and can even get a totally unfamiliar tune fed to me line by line at a workshop or whatever, though to retain something completely unfamiliar, i would need to reinforce with lots of listening. but hey, even my own teacher, a master musician from an itm family in county clare who has been at it all his life, does the same---when learning tunes to perform or whatever, he pops a recording into his car tape player and drives around with it for a couple of weeks before he begins "learning by ear." i guess what i'm trying to say is that this is not some mystical gift that you either have or don't. it's a skill set, and you can get it with practice....
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: learning tunes by ear
I was a music major and did the same ear training you describe. The thing about it is that you're learning to make something tangible out of the intangible. I felt as though I was developing a muscle in my ear during that training. It has been extremely beneficial with the ITM I have to say. But it was that experience that led me to conduct the experiment that I talked about in my first post.
Many of my tunes are learned by hearing them in sessions over and over year after year, and others are learned off of CDs. I usually have 6 CDs in my changer and I leave them in there to hear them repetitively and become familiar with the tunes before I sit down to learn any. I usually don’t do that until I start hearing the tune without the CD player on. The first tunes I hear in my head are usually the ones that surface as my favorites. Other than that, the other tunes I learn are on account of my friends playing them. The circumstance for getting them from my friends varies quite a bit, but they often get them from recordings I can track down as well. If I do that, then I approach learning them the same way by listening a lot first.
Of course… if I had perfect pitch things would be a lot easier I suppose.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: learning tunes by ear
My advice would be, especially in the early stages of learning, stay away from the dots altogether. I'm not saying that written music doesn't have its uses but there's far too much temptation to use it as a crutch in the early days (because at first it's easier to read than to remember and play by ear). But stick with it and you'll be glad in then end.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Rhod
Re: learning tunes by ear
What hasn't been mentioned above is that keeping regular time is kinda necessary to make the tune come out right. When you're in the listening phase of learning a tune, tap your foot, shake your head or whatever in time with the music. When you play along with the tune ala PB above, tap your foot in time. This gives you a framework of time within to the fit the notes, guides you as to which notes to lift a little etc. .. makes the music come out right in short. Trust this helps.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: learning tunes by ear
True WH... in fact... some people who find it difficult to tap their foot whilst playing might benefit from deliberately tapping their foot whilst listening.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: learning tunes by ear
I could add that I had an interesting little 'revelation' this week. I picked up an accordion after not playing one for well over a year. Started playing several tunes that I had learnt in the interim period of the whistle/ flute on which I would learn mostly by ear. Found that I could play them fairly well after a few runs through just by ear. The curious thing is that at the time I stopped playing the box, I found it a great struggle to play by ear. Anyway this was most enjoyable and an insight..
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: learning tunes by ear
I choose the next tune I want to learn from here, play the midi file on repeat on windows media to get the tune in my head while I'm in my office, try to play it later at home, then write a run-on sentence describing the whole thing.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Kheelch
Re: learning tunes by ear
Start out by playing the most simplest of tunes.
Start on any note you want, but an open string is easier.
Try "Frère Jacques"?
Try "ba ba black sheep"?
You may surprise your self that you can do it already.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: learning tunes by ear
A dictaphone can be a great tool for learning tunes, most of the cheap tape ones have a dual speed function and the 1/2 speed setting will lower the pitch exactly an octave, which is handy when you're starting out. But its deadly for recording off the radio, sessions or even get people you know to play tunes into it so you can learn them in your own time
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Rollix
Re: learning tunes by ear
I've also found that trying to learn simple tunes by ear first is the way to go. I hesitate to say it (I'm afraid I'll be decapitated for suggesting so), but it is also a good idea to learn songs like Whiskey In The Jar and Fields Of Athenry. I think songs are easier to learn because you can go back to singing the words to help remind you.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: learning tunes by ear
Wow, thanks for such quick replies!! I've gotten some really good ideas that I'll have to work on. I do have software that'll slow the songs down, so with that I ought to be able to manage something. Thanks so much!
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by FiddleLassie
Re: learning tunes by ear
I'm just going to reiterate llig and rob and others: start with childhood tunes that you know and can hum. Kids are often started this way and it works. I started with Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, Freres Jacques, etc. Then move on to simpler tunes -- most polkas (like Martin O'Connors) -- and tunes that fall easily within the rhythm (like the Kesh jig). But, be sure that you can hum/sing/lilt it first. And don't be afraid to use a slow downer program like Windows Media Player or the Amazing Slow Downer.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by zoetrope
Re: learning tunes by ear
I have sort of the opposite experience. I've always learned music by ear, starting with guitar 20 years ago, moving into flute for the last five. It always seemed so natural.
As much as you think it's magic to learn by ear, I feel the same when I see someone looking at a piece of paper playing a tune they've never heard.
I'm now learning to read music. It feels impossible.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by ottoschmelk
Re: learning tunes by ear
Learning by ear is yer only man - Fiddle Lassie! Just remember the words of Willie Clancy:
"I heard a man say something one time, and I think it was very wise: he says that jazz was the folk music of the Negro before it became "tin pan alleyed". That is what is happening to our Irish music today - that's a very sad case. You have men taking up their fiddles and just because they got a classical knowledge of the fiddle, they try to apply that classical knowledge to folk music which is a sacrilege. They can play Italian* music too, but they try to put Italian touches into the traditional Irish fiddle, and it's a catastrophe, in my opinion!"
http://www.standingstones.com/wclancy.html
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: learning tunes by ear
Why not learn to read music and play by ear? Both are useful! I started out learning to read from sheetmusic (7yr olds have little choice in the way they learn an instrument and there aren't many traditional fiddlers or musicians in this area to learn from) and later on learned to play without. It was hard, but with practice the skill came. One way to pick up a tune is just to pick out either the higher notes or the notes that occur on the beat. When you have got those you can fill in the other notes round them. This also leaves you more room to do your own thing with the tune. You just have to choose the method that best suits the way you learn.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by bowburner
Re: learning tunes by ear
No. If the method that best suits the way you learn is from the dots, you will never be any good at this music. By all means learn to read music and play by ear, but always remember that if you can only play by ear, there is nothing barring you from becoming top notch. But if you only play by reading, there is no hope for you.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: learning tunes by ear
Llig I was trying to make the point that there are different ways of learning to play by ear and that Fiddlelassie should find the way of doing this that best suits her. Learning to read the dots is a useful technique but should not be relied upon as the sole means of learning this type of music.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by bowburner
Re: learning tunes by ear
Sorry, I was reacting to your last sentence "You just have to choose the method that best suits the way you learn." I'm sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: learning tunes by ear
That's ok. I'll forgive you...this time
I suppose one thing that would really have helped me would be having some good trad players to learn from. I only know one who is self taught. He has been to many workshops and I try to learn from him whatever I can when he gets back. I wish I could go to the workshops but kids etc. make it impossible at the moment. Perhaps when I qualify for the oldies discussion I will be able to go.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by bowburner
Re: learning tunes by ear
Kheelch writes: "I choose the next tune I want to learn from here, play the midi file on repeat on windows media to get the tune in my head while I'm in my office, try to play it later at home, then write a run-on sentence describing the whole thing."
Careful, Kheelch, not everyone will recognize this as a p*ss take and might take you seriously. hahahaha
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: learning tunes by ear
If we have that much to say, why not tell the poor lass the truth?
It takes about 5 years to learn the basics of holding and playing a fiddle WITH a bow.
Thats before you ever try to play a tune at all.
# Posted on February 17th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: learning tunes by ear
As a newcomer to this site I can add one thing, htese abc files are magic, just choose a tune you want to learn and set it to play on loop. If it going too fast for you then slow it down, underneath the
T: (name of tune)
M: (time signature)
R: (Type of tune)
and before
K: (key tune is played in)
you may find something like
Q: (a number which determines speed)
If there is then just change it to a lower number,
if there is not a "Q" setting then just add one and play around until you have got it at a speed that is comfortable to play along with.
Now comes the important part, as soon as you have got good enough to play along do not speed it up, do that later, first of all start changing the tune, make it your own, add a twiddle, put in a double stop, and try to play it slightly differently every time. The magic lies in changing the tune while keeping it the same, if it still sounds like the same tune you computer is playing, even though all the notes are different then you are there.
That is a long post, and most of it self evident, so I will shut up now, I am sure other people can fill in the rest .
# Posted on February 17th 2007 by ubendum
Re: learning tunes by ear
i had a bit of a shock when i started on the fiddle a few months ago. I'd played guitar for years, using dots or playing by ear depending on whether it was classical or trad. i was playing. I was used to being able to pick up tunes relatively easily, however, the fiddle is completely different from the guitar, note wise and i was stumped for quite a while. I couldn't just plonk my finger down at a fret knowing that there would be the sound i was looking for. I was all over the place for quite a few weeks. So i would say that knowing where all the notes are on your fiddle, you don't nessecarily need to know their names to learn by ear, would help immensely with learning tunes.
And playing simple tunes, nursery rymes etc. is great advice. After all, if you can play them then you can play by ear
# Posted on February 18th 2007 by velvet
Re: learning tunes by ear from CD recordings
If you want to transcribe/learn tunes from recording I would suggest that you locate the A-B repeat loop on your CD player. Or get a portable with one (for example Panasonic).
Steps to Start: .1 Choose a slow & simple air (one that you have the dots to),
.2 Do a phrase landscape (ABBA etc), note the repeats and time segments
.3 Break the AB repeat to time slices you feel comfortable transcribing
(5//10/20//40 secs)
.4 Play the AB repeat loop and whistle it
.5 Play along with the segment – while whistling it at the same time
.6 ignore hammer-ons, cross picking, etc, note where they occur
.7 transcribe the notes onto a sheet with the AB time slice marked
.8 Compare the transcription with the dots, note where the errors are
.9 Then focus on the ornamentation and advanced phrases (5/10 sec)
(this will advance your playing to the next phase)
Be patient, it takes time.
For training your ear to hear chord progressions – ‘Harmonic Ear Training’ with Roberta Radley of Berklee [Hal Leonard] 0876390270 ASIN: B00029RRHS
Also- ‘One Note Complete’ by Bruce Arnold 1890944475
The bible for your music career (a 5* reference) ‘Hearing and Writing Music’ by Ron Gorow [Garow] 0962949671
# Posted on February 27th 2007 by Naoise
Re: learning tunes by ear
see also 'Teach yourself Mandolin by Ear' ISBN:07866 07149
# Posted on February 27th 2007 by Naoise
Re: learning tunes by ear
I decided to take up the fiddle two years ago. This was after a long 25 year absence from any kind of formal musical training (I had a short two year stint as a trumpet player in grade school). I'm still baffled by keys, names of notes and other such nonsense that gets in the way of playing the music. However, in order to juggle all the stuff going on with learning new tunes and a new instrument, my first songs were taught by repetion but recorded in tablature. Once I got some of the songs under my belt, I used that knowledge to re-learn how to read music. Reading music is very important to be able to learn or communicate, and it gives you a common reference to start from. However, there is no way I can play a fiddle tune at regular speed and site read at the same time. I just goes too fast. So all my tunes are memorized, which amazes me that my head can hold so much (see the brain analogies above).
What I am finding now that I've got two years under my belt is that it is getting easier for me to sound out a tune than to learn it by reading the music. If I am stuck on a particular part, if I just play with it a little, I'll get it.
One key to this is that I am a good whistler, and I've finally been able to connect certain whistle notes with certain fiddle fingerings. It only works if I really know the tune first.
I still don't think I'm "playing by ear" yet, but I'm getting closer.
# Posted on July 24th 2008 by Houlihansam