Just interested to know what people's opinions are but I greatly dislike the banjo, and feel that it is the poor relation to the other instruments in the tradition. It's limitations seem to push players to play at ludicrous speeds, removing what little musicality the instrument possesses, until nothing can be heard but it's percussive nature. Sean O'Riada, a huge early influence on the resurgence of the tradition, rightly loathed the instrument feeling it had no place in Irish music. In a series of programmes he recorded for RTE (subsequently released as a record) he refused to even include it when discussing traditional instruments.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
As a minority instrument player meself, I'd say that the 4-string banjo is a perfectly valid ITM instrument. Like any instrument used in ITM, it must be played with good taste and with a profound respect for tradition, which doesn't necessarily mean you can't ever push the boundaries a bit and/or have fun. What makes people dislike instruments is, overwhelmingly, inappropriate and insensitive playing. The bodhran is the prime example, the main problem being that only about three people on the whole planet can actually play it, and, of those, two choose to ruin things by trying to play tunes on it.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Personally, I think no.
Have always hated the tone, don't feel it fits in with more melifluous instruments, let the box players and the banjo pickers go off somewhere else and have their fun, I say.
I blame Barney McKenna.
On the other hand, a smoothly frailed 5-string ( eg Derroll Adams ) underneath an old ballad is a joy to hear. Or Tom Paley and Joe Lockyer playing together.
Let the tenor banjoists stick to their trad jazz bands.
On the other hand...what's that lady's name, Angela Carberry ? She sounds very pleasant.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
My first post....
I guess everyone has an opinion on what a traditional instrument should be..
Growing up in Newfoundland I listened to traditional stuff since I was born. IMO, any instrument can be brought to the table if played well.
I'm a bodhran player ( i know and don't start the bashing already), and have recently taken up Tenor Banjo. I have close friends that play accordion, guitar, mandolin, fiddle etc. And I'm really looking forward to the opportunity joining in with them with my Tenor.
Here's a couple nice vids of traditional music with a banjo in it. They sure sound good whether you think it's traditional or not.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
The above first link lead me to this, the most shrill, distorted and downright awful banjo sound I've ever heard. It was so awful it put a smile on my face.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I don't always care for the breathy tone of some flute players, but I'd never say they don't belong in the tradition. Some have said in an earlier thread that they don't care for pennywhistle, but it's hard to find a more traditional instrument. The banjo is pretty well established, and personal taste aside, there's no point in slagging it.
It's been said many times and in many ways, it is the player, not the instrument.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I used to think like you Prouse (30 years ago).
My reasoning went like this: the banjo has a pretty unmusical sound to start with. Then, unlike llig's "big three" of pipes, flute and fiddle it (basically) cannot vary the pitch of a note (no sliding up into notes for emotional effect). Nor can it sustain a note. Two good reasons why banjo players wisely refrain from playing airs.
In fact it can only go "bonk" and permutations thereof - "bonka-bonka" or "bonka-bonka-bonka-bonka", "ba-ba-bonk" etc. (On the plus sound it has to be said that a variation in volume is theoretically possible, i.e. players can refrain from going "BONK", "BONKA-BONK" and so on. Thank God for small mercies.) Add to this the fact that it is not only fixed in pitch but also in equal temperament - no natural thirds, beurk!
Yes I had a pretty watertight case in my head for the banjo being a lousy instrument for ITM. From the superiority of my vantage point as a fiddle player. What was the point of playing an instrument that you couldn't play an air on when the fancy took you? One you couldn't freeze the listener's blood with, or make them cry? (Leaving aside making them cry unintentionally, as a few banjo players doubtless have done.)
At some point however I lightened up. People like listening to the things - who was I to judge them? I read an interview with Gerry (banjo) O'Connor somewhere where he said that the banjo is an instrument that makes people happy. And (to a large extent) I now think he's right and I let them make me happy on occasion - live and let live, it takes all sorts to make a world of music. I don't think they're going to take over the world.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
First things first. "The bodhran is the prime example, the main problem being that only about three people on the whole planet can actually play it, and, of those, two choose to ruin things by trying to play tunes on it." says Steve Shaw.
Thank you Steve, I wasn't even aware that you knew me.
Now to business. Yes one could blame/credit Barney McKenna for the popularity of the tenor banjo. Personally I have played with a lot of banjo players, some legends like Sully and Mickey Maguire, and I believe that a well played banjo can add immeasurably to a session, especially in a noisy pub. Angela Carberry's father, Pete, played some banjo, as did a number of others in Manchester in the 1970s.
You can have the same argument about any instrument. Another friend in Manchester played ITM on the recorder and was brilliant.
And what would O'Riada know? Didn't he reinvent bodhrans. People in glass houses and all that.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Good post Bliss.
Prouse, would you laugh if Sean O'Riada cracked a joke about Niggers?
I use this example from hearing a loudmouthed genius musician telling a bad joke one night at a session, and the hangers on laughing out loud... so annoying
He has his opinion - doesn't mean you have to follow it.
If you don't like the sound, then you don't like it, stop digging up stories...who cares...Kevin Burke doesn't like them either...but wait....he plays with John Carty.....
People you play with who play too fast just haven't realised its limitations and thats why they play too fast.
Its the same old argument. ... In the wrong hands.
It does have limitations, but there are things you can do on it, that are unique.
And Pete...poor Pete.
Angelina Carberry is her name, yes she's great, and nearly as good as you, bla bla. I'm interested as to why you like her...I've got a feeling its cause you think you should.
In your experrtise, what seperates her from the rest?
For example from Charlie Piggott?
I played banjo for years. Stopped because of its limitations, and because I was getting too fast, and because the sound just plain annoyed me.... The reason I started again, was cause I've heard really great players who don't experience this...Why?
I don't know, thats why I'm playing again. Loving it.
I wouldn't (and don't) play in a session like you mentioned.
PS Gill's a dink - was a hardcore thrasher on bouzouki for a while before he discovered the fiddle (or maybe it discovered him) .. HA i doubt it.
Now he is one of the purists who knows more then anyone else. Even when he's bating people on tunes they've recoreded on their albums without knowing who they are.....stop typing and go home and practice.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
"is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?" No. Neither is the guitar or mandolin. They've been trad for a shorter time than the fiddle or the pipes or concertina. But it seems to have worked its way in for the last 100 years or so, as have the other instruments, like it or not.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
“I use this example from hearing a loudmouthed genius musician telling a bad joke one night at a session, and the hangers on laughing out loud... so annoying`”
He Hugo – presumably if someone records a bad tune we don’t have to laugh along with it either.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Re the hierarchy thread, can I just reiterate a couple of things I said:
The more the range of the specific articulations needed for this music you have available on your instrument, the better the instrument is at playing this music.
I'm talking about the instruments' capabilities/limitations and not how some genius overcomes them.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
As a banjo player, I obviously am not going to critisize the instrument but I will agree that as far as sensitive playing goes, its not suitable. I wouldn't play a slow air on the banjo. Having said that, I believe it suits the tradition's Geantraí very well. It's a lively instrument which can sound well in the right hands.
At the end of the day, people will love it and people will hate it.
We all know how much stick that bodhran players and piano accordions have recieved. I've seen great players on both instruments as well as some interesting saxophone and harmonica players.
The original question would be a bit too vague to simple answer yes or no but it's only the bad players that will be frowned upon, and that's not just on the banjo!
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Going back to the original post, the notes of a tune can be heard more clearly on a banjo than the likes of a flute - which can butcher the musicality and uniqueness of particular tunes, and monsignor o riada seemed to consider the flute as a trad instr. Because sean o riada didnt like the banjo, doesnt mean the instr should be discarded altogether. What was that piano thing he played? Now that's s*ite. That ruins the music altogether with its boring ploink.
Personally, i despise accordions but im not going to say they've absolutely no place in the tradition. And what's more, at least id have the respect to acknowledge the effort the player has put in to learning the instr, whether i or o riada deem it fit or not to be in the hallowed halls of the tradition, which btw is about evolution of the music, so it would seem.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Ha - Michael,
you of all people should enjoy an insult....Especially when its exposed the loudmouth.
I had Mancunian friends in University that called me a dink...I never travelled to their home town to find out if all of ye use that expression.
Also I'm not going to call you a "tos*er" like I called that other "tos*er" a "to*ser" in case I receive more warnings from my mirror, my guide, my moderator; Jeremy
Begf - doing the maths and getting it wrong....
Have you only listened to banjo from recordings?
Wait - you submitted the O Donaghues session....Do you play there? this may explain alot...Doing a bit of maths here myself.
Whats wrong with old Charlie Piggott recordings?
I know he's playing with Frankie Gavin, and Daly, and backed by Finn, so before you start the - "you can't go wrong there......"
Does he or does he not contribute well to a good piece of music?
If the answers no, then you aren't hearing it right.
Ha - I like that idea.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Hugo dear – I’ve said nothing about banjos (yet).
How could I have got it wrong, I’m asking you a question not
answering one !
The maths quote may have been a bit too subtle, but it is a
reference to what you’re saying about Llig who you’ve found (after a bit of research no doubt) was giving out about a tune (hint hint maths) on “someone’s “ album – which you imply is a bad thing, but on the other hand you’re saying:
“I use this example from hearing a loudmouthed genius
musician telling a bad joke one night at a session, and the
hangers on laughing out loud... so annoying`”. So which is it…
we should all love a tune because some genius on the flute
has it an album…or we should make up our own mind ?
Just pointing out your contradiction is all.
Interesting though you trawled through my history here to try
and find an insult (weak and childish though it was),
As far as banjos are concerned I love them….but I reckon you
take your own advice “stop typing and go home and practice”
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
BegF, Eh...
Ha - where do I start??
I'm not getting into this. The first flute player is completely different to the second one.
So stop there. There was no contradiction ok? Good boy.
I didnt have to search I remembered it at the time.
Ludicrous as it was, things like that you don't forget.
Childish?ok..right..I have a memory.Thats all. I don't use the search. Funny that, as I used to play in O donaghues on a tuesday evening. Is that enough for you?
...Dink....
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Ha ha ! I’ll try again.
I’m ASKING you a question.
You’re saying don’t “blindly follow leaders”…and then giving
out to llig for NOT “blindly following leaders”
And of course there’s a contradiction PRECISLEY because the first player is different to the second.
Are you saying , that we should like the tune because of who
played it ?
Think about it for a while before you answer, so you can see
the nonsense for what it is.
So you just "remembered" that I posted something about
O’Donoughes a while back…and had jibe at me for it.
“Begf - doing the maths and getting it wrong....
Have you only listened to banjo from recordings?” - well that
seemed to be directly at me, the clue was using my name. But
if it was as you say more general, then no, it doesn’t
disappoint.
Come on now, we’re old enough to do this with out patronising
or name calling - aren’t we ?
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Yes dear,
It seems I'm misunderstanding you as much as you are me.
I didn't say anything about any one liking a tune or tunes...it is about the banjo right? I was merely taking Michael down to earth, as he loves to do himself.
Jibe??? - no - it was a subtle joke/ poke/ "wink and elbow language of delight" and all that....(I think its called a bit of craic, you should try it) at the level of banjo players there..I know one or two, so thought you may get it, since you posted the link......
"Remembered" I was going to post it once meself, and saw you had beaten me to it.Jesus.
But hey - I like banjo and you do too, so relax,
Let's leave it at that ok. no response necessary.
Ok - prouse - - have you listened to the Old De Dannan albums with Charlie Piggott? What do you think?
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
i cant believe that people would consider such a motion!The banjo is great although some people do give it a bad rep by playing too fast and hard.When theres a nice quiet session with 4-5 instruments the banjo really adds to the lift of tunes..not that i play it or anything!
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
The hierarchy thread is interesting….and I think accurate
enough in the general grand scheme of things.
In as much as the main point seems to be that when it comes
to playing all the lovely twiddly bits that are native to ITM, it’s the
instrument that can have failings NOT the musicians.
However where I disagree is that, I actually do get a
tremendous kick from seeing some genius overcome their
instruments' capabilities/limitations.
It started for my by first listening to Tony McManus – and
thinking “Jaysus – he makes it sound like the pipes!”
And it’s not (for me anyway) about “wouldn’t it be better to just
have the instruments that don’t have the failings” – we can
have both strands – I don’t think one distracts from the other -
we CAN have our cake and eat it too !
On a side not, I’ve never fully understood that saying, what
would be the point of having your cake and NOT being able to
eat it…or indeed you can’t NOT have your cake and eat it too ?
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I always thought Charlie Piggot's playing very subtle and contributed greatly to the De Dannan sound at the time. Obviously Frankie Gavin thought so too.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Hi.
I think a banjo is a brilliant intstrument if played well. Good banjo players tend to keep good rhythm and are enjoyable to listen to. I used to hate the banjo, but these last few years, I've learnt to love it, as everywhere I went there were fab banjo players. At my local Comhaltas session in Preston, there is a brill banjo player called Gordon. He is amazing and very talented. He used to play fiddle and he still plays guitar. He is amazing!
I've got to say, I quite like the sound of a banjo now. But I must admit, I would never play one. I don't think I would be able to cope.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
As a banjo player, I must say this is a very interesting discussion. I reckon the bonk-bonk sound mentioned earlier is a personal choice, both in instrument and technique. A banjo with a good bronze tone ring will give lots of sustain and playing that little further from the bridge will soften the sound.
Why do people talk about speed all the time? I have sat down and chatted and played with Chris Thile, the new BBC Folk king and he is fascinated by an Irish Banjo players efficiency. He plays so much faster, but not as efficiently as an Irish player...he's learning a whole new technique.
People need to understand that tradition evolves, instruments are introduced, whether people like the sound or not is up to them. A banjo doesn't have as many limitations as people think,
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Excellent instrument for setting the rhythm, and giving a boost to proceedings, especially in a session in a noisy pub.
Now some of you may like sitting in a circle, playing the odd tune in between esoteric conversations on the purity of the music, and fair play to you. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
At the end of the day it depends what you are looking for. Now I love slow airs and ballads, so when it is tunes time I like it lively, with a bit of oooommmmpppphhhh. A personal preference.
I am not saying that oit must be like that for everyone, that I am right and everyone else is wrong, I am not threatening anyone or laying down laws, just an opinion.
On this board, full of reasonable people prepared to listen to opinions, I feel that this will be acceptable.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
llig leahcim a écrit:
"The more the range of the specific articulations needed for this music you have available on your instrument, the better the instrument is at playing this music.
I'm talking about the instruments' capabilities/limitations and not how some genius overcomes them."
You think it's the instrument that plays the music, eh? Hahaha!
And this stuff about the specific articulations. Are you talking about ornamentation? Whatever you mean the statement is incredibly loaded. First in the sense that you appear to have set yourself up as a guru on what the specific articulations are that really are "needed" for this music. Who's going to say what's "needed" and what isn't? Second, that the specific articulations you have in mind are the sine qua non of ITM, as if rhythm, tempo and "lift" are nobbut poor cousins. It all comes back to this idea of there being a "right" way to play ITM and the concept of a set of rules, without which it "may be music but it's not ITM." I prefer the cheerful anarchy of everyone playing ITM developing their own means of individual expression based on good practice and good taste and a lot of good listening. I don't care if, having absorbed the spirit of the thing, you do it on a euphonium as long as you can do it in the same key as the rest of us in the pub. And, even if you take an otherwise dim view of instruments that have apparent limitations, you should at least welcome them in sessions. Just the place where too many clashing articulations can get in the way anyway.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
cthpiper wants to talk about something interesting. Not with me, small co-ops in the USA is the next best thing to communism, don't want the CIA at my door.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I'd read Michael's comment as suggesting that the more options an instrument has for "articulations" suitable for ITM, the better suited it is for playing tunes. I'm not sure I entirely agree, but I guess if all else is equal...
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Steve, you say “You think it's the instrument that plays the music, eh? Hahaha!”
Are you saying the instrument as no say on how the music sounds, eh? Hahaha!
Okay – saying limitations seems to hurt peoples feelings.
Would you except that some instruments are easier or better suited for certain techniques,
(techniques that one could say defines what makes the music unique)
I’m hardly putting my neck on the line when I say a tune written for fiddle is going to sound more at home on fiddle than guitar.
Now I still think it’s great when I hear the guitar play the fiddle tune.
*Disclaimer, I don’t play a 1st tier instrument, so I am not speaking for a biased position.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I’m the same mind as rob – not sure I entirely agree with Llig,
only because as I said earlier I love to see and hear people
get around these limitations. However, all things being equel
there is doubt some instrumenst are more suited than otheres.
The very fact that one would notice the genius of someone
getting around these limitations is proof.
Eg. playing fiddle tunes on the guitar
Not everyone can do it successfully only the few geniuses,
wheras a lot more can play the fiddle, ie you don’t have to be a
genius.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I absolutely think the banjo is a suitable traditional instrument, especially in the right hands. That being said, I like it when people who play pipes, whistles or banjoes also play some other instrument, because those three instruments, in my opinion, are better appreciated in moderation, not playing along on every tune of the evening. But that is just a personal preference.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I don't suppose this is the place to say I usually like banjos with their beefy pulsing, but seldom like flutes, with all their breathy warblings turning tunes to indistinguishable mush. Too many opportunities for articulations , too often taken, if you ask me.
But then I'm neither "I" nor "T" and only sometimes "M".
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I thought that the hierarchy thread was the height of ridiculousness...especially as it was submitted by somebody who "doesn't give a toss about tradition" and then nails down which instruments best suit the tradition...now this. Brilliant, sophisticated and very mature. Brings out the best in all of us.
Why don't we just air our personal gripes about what instruments annoy us occasionally until everybody is well offended?
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Loved that clip, Hugo. Almost a perfect band - two bouzoukis and OH DAMMIT ! a banjo !
I thought it was TWINKIES - Two incomes and no kids.
Don't know what that makes SO and I; One and a half incomes and two kids at Uni; poor, maybe.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
mmmm i like banjos even though i think im required to hate them. theyre lovely instruments when played well and have a really nice, clean sound to them which i like. love playing with banjo players in sessions. btw what is the proper term for someone who plays the banjo?
banjo-ist, banjo-er ??????
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
The banjo IMO has an inbuilt aggressiveness that goes well with those low growly tunes composed by perverted fiddleheads in unsocial keys - something used by early De Danann. It can provide the basic required noise in a session in a loud environment, or where few or diffident people are there, encouraging them to strike up. One in a crowded session adds just that bite to the music, along with the relative sweetness of fiddle and flute. Two in a session may be one too many, but that goes for guitars as well.
Barney McKenna took on the air Roisin Dubh in one of the Dubliners' recordings. Margaret Barry with a 5-string used it ably as an accompaniment to slow songs.
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Whoever said the concertina was more traditional in Irish music doesn't know what he's talking about, it was only invented about 100 years ago by Sir Charles Wheatstone, banjoes been around a lot longer, I play a 94 year old Vega.
A good banjo player is a blessing in a session with seven fiddle players playing everything at the same speed, ie. jigs, hornpipes, polkas etc. all played like fast reels, at least banjo players don't do this.
&
“ ..... the concertina, invented by Charles Wheatstone around 1829 or 1830,initially as a scientific curiosity, but marketed from 1836 asa serious musical instrument.” ttp://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/info/wayne.htm
As for the Banjo, Mick Moloney has this to say:
“It was during this time [ middle of the 19th century ] that the banjo in all probability was first introduced to Ireland, when the Virginia Minstrels toured in England, Ireland and France in 1843, 1844 and 1845.”
However that would have been the Minstrel Banjo which had 5 strings & no frets!
“It wasn't until 1878 that frets were added”
“So the evidence, though it is circumstantial, would indicate that originally the banjo was used in Ireland for rudimentary accompaniment of songs and tunes, with perhaps some of the simpler melodies being plucked out by the fingers.”
“Then around 1915, the tango, or tenor banjo, was invented ....... ”
N.B. On this point I do take issue with Mick's facts, because I have seen Tenor Banjos which were dated earlier than this, around 1904 & I notice that you actually play a Banjo which is older than that, yourself Dave!
At the end of the day though, does it really matter which was adopted first by ITM players?
Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Just interested to know what people's opinions are but I greatly dislike the banjo, and feel that it is the poor relation to the other instruments in the tradition. It's limitations seem to push players to play at ludicrous speeds, removing what little musicality the instrument possesses, until nothing can be heard but it's percussive nature. Sean O'Riada, a huge early influence on the resurgence of the tradition, rightly loathed the instrument feeling it had no place in Irish music. In a series of programmes he recorded for RTE (subsequently released as a record) he refused to even include it when discussing traditional instruments.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by prouse
Re: agree with me
So if you really want to know what I think about accordions...
oops... uh... wrong thread... sorry.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
As a minority instrument player meself, I'd say that the 4-string banjo is a perfectly valid ITM instrument. Like any instrument used in ITM, it must be played with good taste and with a profound respect for tradition, which doesn't necessarily mean you can't ever push the boundaries a bit and/or have fun. What makes people dislike instruments is, overwhelmingly, inappropriate and insensitive playing. The bodhran is the prime example, the main problem being that only about three people on the whole planet can actually play it, and, of those, two choose to ruin things by trying to play tunes on it.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Personally, I think no.
Have always hated the tone, don't feel it fits in with more melifluous instruments, let the box players and the banjo pickers go off somewhere else and have their fun, I say.
I blame Barney McKenna.
On the other hand, a smoothly frailed 5-string ( eg Derroll Adams ) underneath an old ballad is a joy to hear. Or Tom Paley and Joe Lockyer playing together.
Let the tenor banjoists stick to their trad jazz bands.
On the other hand...what's that lady's name, Angela Carberry ? She sounds very pleasant.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/6109/
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
You only posted that because you know you didn't mention harmonicas in that thread. I won't be goaded. Eye-roll emoticon.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
My first post....
I guess everyone has an opinion on what a traditional instrument should be..
Growing up in Newfoundland I listened to traditional stuff since I was born. IMO, any instrument can be brought to the table if played well.
I'm a bodhran player ( i know and don't start the bashing already), and have recently taken up Tenor Banjo. I have close friends that play accordion, guitar, mandolin, fiddle etc. And I'm really looking forward to the opportunity joining in with them with my Tenor.
Here's a couple nice vids of traditional music with a banjo in it. They sure sound good whether you think it's traditional or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-7ajjGC0kw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB03bbbnWl0
Ken
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by salmoncove
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Of course it is. Don't be silly!
Even Michael has it in the second tier.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
You should have been to hear Eamonn Coyne tonight in Edinburgh. Perhaps, you might have changed your opinion.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
The above first link lead me to this, the most shrill, distorted and downright awful banjo sound I've ever heard. It was so awful it put a smile on my face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqOBoa7rmQ&mode=user&search=
To answer the question though, yes, the banjo adds a great deal to a good session, imho.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Tigermoth
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I don't always care for the breathy tone of some flute players, but I'd never say they don't belong in the tradition. Some have said in an earlier thread that they don't care for pennywhistle, but it's hard to find a more traditional instrument. The banjo is pretty well established, and personal taste aside, there's no point in slagging it.
It's been said many times and in many ways, it is the player, not the instrument.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I used to think like you Prouse (30 years ago).
My reasoning went like this: the banjo has a pretty unmusical sound to start with. Then, unlike llig's "big three" of pipes, flute and fiddle it (basically) cannot vary the pitch of a note (no sliding up into notes for emotional effect). Nor can it sustain a note. Two good reasons why banjo players wisely refrain from playing airs.
In fact it can only go "bonk" and permutations thereof - "bonka-bonka" or "bonka-bonka-bonka-bonka", "ba-ba-bonk" etc. (On the plus sound it has to be said that a variation in volume is theoretically possible, i.e. players can refrain from going "BONK", "BONKA-BONK" and so on. Thank God for small mercies.) Add to this the fact that it is not only fixed in pitch but also in equal temperament - no natural thirds, beurk!
Yes I had a pretty watertight case in my head for the banjo being a lousy instrument for ITM. From the superiority of my vantage point as a fiddle player. What was the point of playing an instrument that you couldn't play an air on when the fancy took you? One you couldn't freeze the listener's blood with, or make them cry? (Leaving aside making them cry unintentionally, as a few banjo players doubtless have done.)
At some point however I lightened up. People like listening to the things - who was I to judge them? I read an interview with Gerry (banjo) O'Connor somewhere where he said that the banjo is an instrument that makes people happy. And (to a large extent) I now think he's right and I let them make me happy on occasion - live and let live, it takes all sorts to make a world of music. I don't think they're going to take over the world.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
First things first. "The bodhran is the prime example, the main problem being that only about three people on the whole planet can actually play it, and, of those, two choose to ruin things by trying to play tunes on it." says Steve Shaw.
Thank you Steve, I wasn't even aware that you knew me.
Now to business. Yes one could blame/credit Barney McKenna for the popularity of the tenor banjo. Personally I have played with a lot of banjo players, some legends like Sully and Mickey Maguire, and I believe that a well played banjo can add immeasurably to a session, especially in a noisy pub. Angela Carberry's father, Pete, played some banjo, as did a number of others in Manchester in the 1970s.
You can have the same argument about any instrument. Another friend in Manchester played ITM on the recorder and was brilliant.
And what would O'Riada know? Didn't he reinvent bodhrans. People in glass houses and all that.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Tenor banjo is fun as heck to play.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
My friend Chuck in TX (Travis Lake) plays the sweetest sounding banjo you'd ever want to hear!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by morning star
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
It's the player that will ruin the night !!! Is there only 3 Bodhran players ?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by lamh trom
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Mind you, I probably like the banjo because I'm an "old folkie"
rather *just* than an ITM (whatever that is) man.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Good post Bliss.
Prouse, would you laugh if Sean O'Riada cracked a joke about Niggers?
I use this example from hearing a loudmouthed genius musician telling a bad joke one night at a session, and the hangers on laughing out loud... so annoying
He has his opinion - doesn't mean you have to follow it.
If you don't like the sound, then you don't like it, stop digging up stories...who cares...Kevin Burke doesn't like them either...but wait....he plays with John Carty.....
People you play with who play too fast just haven't realised its limitations and thats why they play too fast.
Its the same old argument. ... In the wrong hands.
It does have limitations, but there are things you can do on it, that are unique.
And Pete...poor Pete.
Angelina Carberry is her name, yes she's great, and nearly as good as you, bla bla. I'm interested as to why you like her...I've got a feeling its cause you think you should.
In your experrtise, what seperates her from the rest?
For example from Charlie Piggott?
I played banjo for years. Stopped because of its limitations, and because I was getting too fast, and because the sound just plain annoyed me.... The reason I started again, was cause I've heard really great players who don't experience this...Why?
I don't know, thats why I'm playing again. Loving it.
I wouldn't (and don't) play in a session like you mentioned.
PS Gill's a dink - was a hardcore thrasher on bouzouki for a while before he discovered the fiddle (or maybe it discovered him) .. HA i doubt it.
Now he is one of the purists who knows more then anyone else. Even when he's bating people on tunes they've recoreded on their albums without knowing who they are.....stop typing and go home and practice.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
"is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?" No. Neither is the guitar or mandolin. They've been trad for a shorter time than the fiddle or the pipes or concertina. But it seems to have worked its way in for the last 100 years or so, as have the other instruments, like it or not.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Farr
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
“I use this example from hearing a loudmouthed genius musician telling a bad joke one night at a session, and the hangers on laughing out loud... so annoying`”
He Hugo – presumably if someone records a bad tune we don’t have to laugh along with it either.
Just doing the maths…so to speak.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
A banjo is simply a bodhran with one difference - the player is forced to learn the tunes. That's gotta be a good thing, no?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Dow
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
What the feck's a dink?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
A dink is the sound a banjo makes...in the wrong hands is it?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Frunobulax
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I find the percussive, driving sound some players achieve absolutely superb. Sometimes you need one to drown out the guitar...
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by maxF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
"a disparaging term for a North Vietnamese soldier or guerrilla in the Vietnam War." Never been to Vietnam
"either partner of a married couple having two incomes and no children." Never been married
"Tennis, Volleyball. a softly hit ball that falls just over the net." ??
"A small boat used to travel from a boat to shore, carrying people or supplies." ??
"an acronym used to collectively talk about data, information and knowledge" ??
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Re the hierarchy thread, can I just reiterate a couple of things I said:
The more the range of the specific articulations needed for this music you have available on your instrument, the better the instrument is at playing this music.
I'm talking about the instruments' capabilities/limitations and not how some genius overcomes them.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
"The Dinks are a group of munchkin-like characters in red robes in the 1987 movie Spaceballs. "
Llig - are you vertically challanged ?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
As a banjo player, I obviously am not going to critisize the instrument but I will agree that as far as sensitive playing goes, its not suitable. I wouldn't play a slow air on the banjo. Having said that, I believe it suits the tradition's Geantraí very well. It's a lively instrument which can sound well in the right hands.
At the end of the day, people will love it and people will hate it.
We all know how much stick that bodhran players and piano accordions have recieved. I've seen great players on both instruments as well as some interesting saxophone and harmonica players.
The original question would be a bit too vague to simple answer yes or no but it's only the bad players that will be frowned upon, and that's not just on the banjo!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by PaddyCmusic
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I'm just gonna say one thing to all of you who dont like banjos or guitars or mandolins in ITM.
If people had the same attitude towards new instruments when the fiddle or concertina was introduced to the music, where would ITM be now?
For crying out loud. its how an instrument is played thats important not how long its been established in the tradition.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by session savage
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Going back to the original post, the notes of a tune can be heard more clearly on a banjo than the likes of a flute - which can butcher the musicality and uniqueness of particular tunes, and monsignor o riada seemed to consider the flute as a trad instr. Because sean o riada didnt like the banjo, doesnt mean the instr should be discarded altogether. What was that piano thing he played? Now that's s*ite. That ruins the music altogether with its boring ploink.
Personally, i despise accordions but im not going to say they've absolutely no place in the tradition. And what's more, at least id have the respect to acknowledge the effort the player has put in to learning the instr, whether i or o riada deem it fit or not to be in the hallowed halls of the tradition, which btw is about evolution of the music, so it would seem.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by copo24
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Ha - Michael,
you of all people should enjoy an insult....Especially when its exposed the loudmouth.
I had Mancunian friends in University that called me a dink...I never travelled to their home town to find out if all of ye use that expression.
Also I'm not going to call you a "tos*er" like I called that other "tos*er" a "to*ser" in case I receive more warnings from my mirror, my guide, my moderator; Jeremy
Begf - doing the maths and getting it wrong....
Have you only listened to banjo from recordings?
Wait - you submitted the O Donaghues session....Do you play there? this may explain alot...Doing a bit of maths here myself.
Whats wrong with old Charlie Piggott recordings?
I know he's playing with Frankie Gavin, and Daly, and backed by Finn, so before you start the - "you can't go wrong there......"
Does he or does he not contribute well to a good piece of music?
If the answers no, then you aren't hearing it right.
Ha - I like that idea.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Yes I do love a good insult, but, " a brand of scooter manufactured by Kymco"?
Or maybe it's, "an alternative band that draws heavily from funk-metal, industrial, and rap."?
Or, "a machine too small to be worth bothering with" ??
Am I getting closer?
"give someone a lift on your pushbike" (australian)
Oh hang on, I think I've got it, "a euphemism parents use to name the penis for small children."
Yeah great, I do love a good insult
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Hugo dear – I’ve said nothing about banjos (yet).
How could I have got it wrong, I’m asking you a question not
answering one !
The maths quote may have been a bit too subtle, but it is a
reference to what you’re saying about Llig who you’ve found (after a bit of research no doubt) was giving out about a tune (hint hint maths) on “someone’s “ album – which you imply is a bad thing, but on the other hand you’re saying:
“I use this example from hearing a loudmouthed genius
musician telling a bad joke one night at a session, and the
hangers on laughing out loud... so annoying`”. So which is it…
we should all love a tune because some genius on the flute
has it an album…or we should make up our own mind ?
Just pointing out your contradiction is all.
Interesting though you trawled through my history here to try
and find an insult (weak and childish though it was),
As far as banjos are concerned I love them….but I reckon you
take your own advice “stop typing and go home and practice”
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
BegF, Eh...
Ha - where do I start??
I'm not getting into this. The first flute player is completely different to the second one.
So stop there. There was no contradiction ok? Good boy.
I didnt have to search I remembered it at the time.
Ludicrous as it was, things like that you don't forget.
Childish?ok..right..I have a memory.Thats all. I don't use the search. Funny that, as I used to play in O donaghues on a tuesday evening. Is that enough for you?
...Dink....
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
PS - the banjo stuff was general - not at you.
Sorry to disappoint
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Ha ha ! I’ll try again.
I’m ASKING you a question.
You’re saying don’t “blindly follow leaders”…and then giving
out to llig for NOT “blindly following leaders”
And of course there’s a contradiction PRECISLEY because the first player is different to the second.
Are you saying , that we should like the tune because of who
played it ?
Think about it for a while before you answer, so you can see
the nonsense for what it is.
So you just "remembered" that I posted something about
O’Donoughes a while back…and had jibe at me for it.
“Begf - doing the maths and getting it wrong....
Have you only listened to banjo from recordings?” - well that
seemed to be directly at me, the clue was using my name. But
if it was as you say more general, then no, it doesn’t
disappoint.
Come on now, we’re old enough to do this with out patronising
or name calling - aren’t we ?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Yes dear,
It seems I'm misunderstanding you as much as you are me.
I didn't say anything about any one liking a tune or tunes...it is about the banjo right? I was merely taking Michael down to earth, as he loves to do himself.
Jibe??? - no - it was a subtle joke/ poke/ "wink and elbow language of delight" and all that....(I think its called a bit of craic, you should try it) at the level of banjo players there..I know one or two, so thought you may get it, since you posted the link......
"Remembered" I was going to post it once meself, and saw you had beaten me to it.Jesus.
But hey - I like banjo and you do too, so relax,
Let's leave it at that ok. no response necessary.
Ok - prouse - - have you listened to the Old De Dannan albums with Charlie Piggott? What do you think?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
i cant believe that people would consider such a motion!The banjo is great although some people do give it a bad rep by playing too fast and hard.When theres a nice quiet session with 4-5 instruments the banjo really adds to the lift of tunes..not that i play it or anything!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by mike meade
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
The hierarchy thread is interesting….and I think accurate
enough in the general grand scheme of things.
In as much as the main point seems to be that when it comes
to playing all the lovely twiddly bits that are native to ITM, it’s the
instrument that can have failings NOT the musicians.
However where I disagree is that, I actually do get a
tremendous kick from seeing some genius overcome their
instruments' capabilities/limitations.
It started for my by first listening to Tony McManus – and
thinking “Jaysus – he makes it sound like the pipes!”
And it’s not (for me anyway) about “wouldn’t it be better to just
have the instruments that don’t have the failings” – we can
have both strands – I don’t think one distracts from the other -
we CAN have our cake and eat it too !
On a side not, I’ve never fully understood that saying, what
would be the point of having your cake and NOT being able to
eat it…or indeed you can’t NOT have your cake and eat it too ?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I always thought Charlie Piggot's playing very subtle and contributed greatly to the De Dannan sound at the time. Obviously Frankie Gavin thought so too.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Strathfoyle
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I thought the difference between a bodhran and a banjo was a dose of Viagra.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Hi.
I think a banjo is a brilliant intstrument if played well. Good banjo players tend to keep good rhythm and are enjoyable to listen to. I used to hate the banjo, but these last few years, I've learnt to love it, as everywhere I went there were fab banjo players. At my local Comhaltas session in Preston, there is a brill banjo player called Gordon. He is amazing and very talented. He used to play fiddle and he still plays guitar. He is amazing!
I've got to say, I quite like the sound of a banjo now. But I must admit, I would never play one. I don't think I would be able to cope.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by NiamhB
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
As a banjo player, I must say this is a very interesting discussion. I reckon the bonk-bonk sound mentioned earlier is a personal choice, both in instrument and technique. A banjo with a good bronze tone ring will give lots of sustain and playing that little further from the bridge will soften the sound.
Why do people talk about speed all the time? I have sat down and chatted and played with Chris Thile, the new BBC Folk king and he is fascinated by an Irish Banjo players efficiency. He plays so much faster, but not as efficiently as an Irish player...he's learning a whole new technique.
People need to understand that tradition evolves, instruments are introduced, whether people like the sound or not is up to them. A banjo doesn't have as many limitations as people think,
39
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by no39
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Excellent instrument for setting the rhythm, and giving a boost to proceedings, especially in a session in a noisy pub.
Now some of you may like sitting in a circle, playing the odd tune in between esoteric conversations on the purity of the music, and fair play to you. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
At the end of the day it depends what you are looking for. Now I love slow airs and ballads, so when it is tunes time I like it lively, with a bit of oooommmmpppphhhh. A personal preference.
I am not saying that oit must be like that for everyone, that I am right and everyone else is wrong, I am not threatening anyone or laying down laws, just an opinion.
On this board, full of reasonable people prepared to listen to opinions, I feel that this will be acceptable.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
And perhaps Hugo should listen to the Libertines and use DIV instead of dink.
Great word that.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Yes, one man's ceiling may be another man's floor.
But woe betide him lest he forget that he is standing on the shoulders of giants.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
WOW!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
*Yawn* Can we talk about something remotely interesting for a change?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hanley
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
llig leahcim a écrit:
"The more the range of the specific articulations needed for this music you have available on your instrument, the better the instrument is at playing this music.
I'm talking about the instruments' capabilities/limitations and not how some genius overcomes them."
You think it's the instrument that plays the music, eh? Hahaha!
And this stuff about the specific articulations. Are you talking about ornamentation? Whatever you mean the statement is incredibly loaded. First in the sense that you appear to have set yourself up as a guru on what the specific articulations are that really are "needed" for this music. Who's going to say what's "needed" and what isn't? Second, that the specific articulations you have in mind are the sine qua non of ITM, as if rhythm, tempo and "lift" are nobbut poor cousins. It all comes back to this idea of there being a "right" way to play ITM and the concept of a set of rules, without which it "may be music but it's not ITM." I prefer the cheerful anarchy of everyone playing ITM developing their own means of individual expression based on good practice and good taste and a lot of good listening. I don't care if, having absorbed the spirit of the thing, you do it on a euphonium as long as you can do it in the same key as the rest of us in the pub. And, even if you take an otherwise dim view of instruments that have apparent limitations, you should at least welcome them in sessions. Just the place where too many clashing articulations can get in the way anyway.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
cthpiper wants to talk about something interesting. Not with me, small co-ops in the USA is the next best thing to communism, don't want the CIA at my door.
I really do like banjos.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I'd read Michael's comment as suggesting that the more options an instrument has for "articulations" suitable for ITM, the better suited it is for playing tunes. I'm not sure I entirely agree, but I guess if all else is equal...
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by robharper
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Steve, you say “You think it's the instrument that plays the music, eh? Hahaha!”
Are you saying the instrument as no say on how the music sounds, eh? Hahaha!
Okay – saying limitations seems to hurt peoples feelings.
Would you except that some instruments are easier or better suited for certain techniques,
(techniques that one could say defines what makes the music unique)
I’m hardly putting my neck on the line when I say a tune written for fiddle is going to sound more at home on fiddle than guitar.
Now I still think it’s great when I hear the guitar play the fiddle tune.
*Disclaimer, I don’t play a 1st tier instrument, so I am not speaking for a biased position.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I’m the same mind as rob – not sure I entirely agree with Llig,
only because as I said earlier I love to see and hear people
get around these limitations. However, all things being equel
there is doubt some instrumenst are more suited than otheres.
The very fact that one would notice the genius of someone
getting around these limitations is proof.
Eg. playing fiddle tunes on the guitar
Not everyone can do it successfully only the few geniuses,
wheras a lot more can play the fiddle, ie you don’t have to be a
genius.
Don’t view it as a critism.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by BegF
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I absolutely think the banjo is a suitable traditional instrument, especially in the right hands. That being said, I like it when people who play pipes, whistles or banjoes also play some other instrument, because those three instruments, in my opinion, are better appreciated in moderation, not playing along on every tune of the evening. But that is just a personal preference.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I don't suppose this is the place to say I usually like banjos with their beefy pulsing, but seldom like flutes, with all their breathy warblings turning tunes to indistinguishable mush. Too many opportunities for articulations , too often taken, if you ask me.
But then I'm neither "I" nor "T" and only sometimes "M".
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Bren
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
You're right to the top of my sh*t-list , Bren
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Some body just mailed this to me in view to this discussion...
WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpB7N0NPi0
Bliss,
Pete Doherty got addicted to drugs licking the sticker on that bodhran...
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I thought that the hierarchy thread was the height of ridiculousness...especially as it was submitted by somebody who "doesn't give a toss about tradition" and then nails down which instruments best suit the tradition...now this. Brilliant, sophisticated and very mature. Brings out the best in all of us.
Why don't we just air our personal gripes about what instruments annoy us occasionally until everybody is well offended?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
N.B. - DINKs have: 'Double Incomes and No Kids'!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I like the way good banjo cuts through and helps pin down the melody. Possibly essential with loud, exuberant dancing.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Loved that clip, Hugo. Almost a perfect band - two bouzoukis and OH DAMMIT ! a banjo !
I thought it was TWINKIES - Two incomes and no kids.
Don't know what that makes SO and I; One and a half incomes and two kids at Uni; poor, maybe.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Back to the original question - Yes.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by halfwaythere
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
mmmm i like banjos even though i think im required to hate them. theyre lovely instruments when played well and have a really nice, clean sound to them which i like. love playing with banjo players in sessions. btw what is the proper term for someone who plays the banjo?
banjo-ist, banjo-er ??????
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by RoisinB
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
"Plonker"
Hey, Kenny - I don't like flutes , oh no, - I love them
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Bren
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I love well played banjos as well.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by bb
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I've just gone bought myself a banjo. And, what's worse, I love it. If only Prouse had posted this this thread earlier, I might have been saved.
# Posted on February 17th 2007 by ragaman
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
I'll see you downstairs, Angelina.
# Posted on February 17th 2007 by ragaman
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
The banjo IMO has an inbuilt aggressiveness that goes well with those low growly tunes composed by perverted fiddleheads in unsocial keys - something used by early De Danann. It can provide the basic required noise in a session in a loud environment, or where few or diffident people are there, encouraging them to strike up. One in a crowded session adds just that bite to the music, along with the relative sweetness of fiddle and flute. Two in a session may be one too many, but that goes for guitars as well.
Barney McKenna took on the air Roisin Dubh in one of the Dubliners' recordings. Margaret Barry with a 5-string used it ably as an accompaniment to slow songs.
# Posted on February 17th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Whoever said the concertina was more traditional in Irish music doesn't know what he's talking about, it was only invented about 100 years ago by Sir Charles Wheatstone, banjoes been around a lot longer, I play a 94 year old Vega.
A good banjo player is a blessing in a session with seven fiddle players playing everything at the same speed, ie. jigs, hornpipes, polkas etc. all played like fast reels, at least banjo players don't do this.
# Posted on February 18th 2007 by Dave Hanson
Re: Is the banjo a suitable traditional instrument?
Just thought you should know Dave:
“Wheatstone in England had invented his concertina in 1829...”
http://www.accordions.com/index/his/his_inv_dev.shtml
&
“ ..... the concertina, invented by Charles Wheatstone around 1829 or 1830,initially as a scientific curiosity, but marketed from 1836 asa serious musical instrument.”
ttp://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/info/wayne.htm
As for the Banjo, Mick Moloney has this to say:
“It was during this time [ middle of the 19th century ] that the banjo in all probability was first introduced to Ireland, when the Virginia Minstrels toured in England, Ireland and France in 1843, 1844 and 1845.”
However that would have been the Minstrel Banjo which had 5 strings & no frets!
“It wasn't until 1878 that frets were added”
“So the evidence, though it is circumstantial, would indicate that originally the banjo was used in Ireland for rudimentary accompaniment of songs and tunes, with perhaps some of the simpler melodies being plucked out by the fingers.”
“Then around 1915, the tango, or tenor banjo, was invented ....... ”
N.B. On this point I do take issue with Mick's facts, because I have seen Tenor Banjos which were dated earlier than this, around 1904 & I notice that you actually play a Banjo which is older than that, yourself Dave!
At the end of the day though, does it really matter which was adopted first by ITM players?
# Posted on February 18th 2007 by Ptarmigan