OK, fun idea. My wife used this term the other day, and I got a kick out of it. Who is your Grandteacher? That is, your teacher's teacher? For instance, a friend of mine studied with Andy McGann, who in turn studied with Michael Coleman for a time, making Coleman my friends' Grandteacher (and, I suppose, his students' Great-Grandteacher). Many folks (like me) have no real "teacher" to speak of, but I suppose it could be extended to include a musician with whom you've played and admire, etc. [Oooh, if that's the case, my Grandteacher is Martin Wynne and my Great-Grandteacher is Martin Mulvihill.] Other folks might have more than one teacher, so I guess you could take this to whatever degree you like. This will be interesting... let 'er rip!!
I taught myself the concertina - never had a teacher (some would say it shows !) but I was inspired by, and always enjoyed the playing of the late Tom McCarthy of Kilmihil, Co.Clare. I believe he learnt a lot from Stack Ryan, also of that locality.
The other influence on my playing was Packie Russell of Doonagore, Doolin. He learnt from Patty Flanagan, also of Doonagore, and whom I had the privilege of meeting at the Stella Maris nursing home in Lisdoon Varna many years ago when he was in his nineties.
My formal training consisted of a few months of classical guitar lessons with three different teachers, one of whom had been a student of Segovia's. I was, by the way, a bad student.
The MacCrimmons?!? I went to summer boot-camps for several years with Jimmy McIntosh for GHB. The lessons were very substantive and intense too - not like these 20-person-a-class deals at a week-long summer camp for ITM, where the focus is the sessions, but the classes are tune-learning sessions with a bit of spare advice about actual technique.
This idea is actually how most of my "teachers" have taught--that they are passing on the insights, knowledge, and generosity of their teachers, and that you become one of this "family" of musicians.
So I started out with Linda Danielson, who was taking lessons from Kevin Burke. Then I played with Kevin, who lists his teachers as Jessie Christopherson, Woody and Arlo Guthrie, Andy McGann, P.J. Crotty (and so, Junior Crehan), and Jimi Hendrix.
Another my treasured grandteachers would be Martin Rochford, thanks to the generosity of Cait Reed, a great teacher and friend.
Thanks for starting this thread, Darin--nice to have a chance to give recognition and thanks to our mentors.
It's true that most of us have more than one teacher! Whether they know we're learning from them is another matter - you can have formal teachers, but almost more importantly, you have informal teachers as well.
It's like the old adage of "it takes a village..." This is a large (somewhat incestuous) family to which we belong.
My whistle teacher Frank Simpson, took classes from Mary Bergin in Dublin in the 80's. I was fortunate enough to meet her in Boston when they had Gaelic Roots there one year and take her class. She remembered him well and was really happy he was carrying on the tradition here in L.A. When I listen to his playing I can certainly really hear her influence, but he also ended up listening to alot of other music and developed his own unique sound. Also in his class back then apparently was Marus OMurchu and his style of whistle playing came out with a very different rhythmic style than my teachers.
Well, playing the dulcimer in a remote little town, I didn't have a teacher. But, for a short time I took pipe (highland) lessons from Ben Holmes in the Denver area (pipe major of the Centenial Pipes and Drums). My understanding is that he is a world class piper, but that's out of my area and I really don't know. Also had several lessons from Dennis McMaster out of Salt Lake (ex-pipe major for the Salt Lake Scots). I also played with a dulcimer player named Joe Jewell, not exactly sure where he is from but somewhere near the Ozark Mountains, but I played with him in Colorado. He is probably the biggest influence on my playing style and the cloesest I have to an actual teacher.
I go to Mike McHale for whistle, and while i'm not sure who taught him, I do know he used to ride his bike a couple of towns over every Sunday to listen to Peter Horan, so as far as I know, perhaps Peter Horan is my Grandteacher?
Some woman down the road. And my teacher's mother. And who knows who else, I'm too shy to ask. I say a private thank-you to them every time I try to play one of these tunes of theirs.
So, Reverend, you also graduated from the Spanish Guitar Centre in London?
Guernsey Pete, I'm trying to work this out. I've never been clear about in-laws and distant cousins.
If I took lessons from John Pearse, who did you take lessons from? Are you my nephew?
I did a lot of family history research the last couple of years....and learned something through the process....and through the maths!
Some of us a lucky to have a silver or golden thread that is easily traced through the tapestry of our forefathers (mostly because they were the ones regarded as important). In my case through a great grandfather I tapped into minor lords and nobility and found myself with traceable connections to the Queen Mum, and to George Washington, and King Merfyn the Freckled (if you go back far enough). And then I did the math. And if there are only 2 descendants each generation....then my 33rd great grandfather only had a couple of million other descendants on the planet.....and that golden thread wasn't so unique....or so interesting.
And I also discovered that it's often not the 'names' that give you the best stories or influences. It's often the missing pieces. The unnamed grandmothers.
And I think it's the same with music. We can trace back our musical grandfather's and take delight in the names we recognise......and I'm not knocking it......have fun...........but you know....it's weird Aunt Maude who liked adding that extra note here or introduced lingering on that high noted because it gave her time to kick the cottage door shut as the kids raced in.....or to stir the stew on the stove...whom we probably owe just as much to!
Oldstrings, I was taught by Jack King, who taught on a Tuesday night at Cecil Sharpe House in the '60s'
Where is Jack now ? Must be well-matured. He used to wear a Van Dyke beard ( showed you were arty at that time ) and drove a Mini-Cooper with a gearbox that sounded like it was going to explode. Also ran the Folk Cellar on a Saturday night at the House for some years.
PS My father used to say that if a cousin is more than twice removed they're no longer in the family.
PPS Interesting to find someone else related to King Merfyn the Freckled...
I swear that my teacher learnt his stuff from Val Doonigan, judjung by the rocking chair and sweater.
He, in turn, learnt from Paddy McGinty, whose original mentor was the goat!
Well, my students did a little project one time where they traced their musical ancestory... there was one that traced their musical lineage through me all the way back to Felix Mendelssohn.
My teacher for years was myself, and this incestuous relationship led to some congenital defects in my playing. I took some lessons over the past few years from Matt Heaton, from the Boston area, who did some good things with my guitar playing, but I still have far more to learn, so if you ever hear me, don't blame him for the flaws that still remain!
I have also been in some week-long workshops with some fine players, but mentioning those short-term acquaintances would be name-dropping!
Feck! What Babylonian whores are all your teachers! Running about with so many grandteachers in the dark of night! And ye, the foul offspring of so much sinful collaboration! Bragging of such improprieties! Shame! For SHAME! If thou liest with the fiddlers, ye will gather much rosin dust! May it discolor your trousers and choke your vile souls!
Away with thee to Utah's lecherous deserts!
A pox on thee and your hideous progeny to come!
P.S.: Slut that I am, I suppose I'm related to Martin and Brendan Mulvihill, Wynne, Coleman, Cunningham, Burke, and possibly Reavy and Vesey, the latter few being through one-night stands, aka, "workshops"...of course my playing bears no resemblance to the lineage.
My teacher's teacher is now my teacher......how the heck does that work....?!?!? I suppose it's Chris Newman (who teaches me now just to confuse things) and Ian Carr. Either way you slice it, however, I've got a lesson with John Renbourn tomorrow afternoon. Who the heck taught him??
My teachers are the people I play with in sessions and the musos I listen to on CDs. I could start namedropping tediously like the rest of you, but I've heard quite a lot of CDs in my time, and played in quite a few sessions.
In my case, Robin Williamson's "The Tin Whistle Book" published in the 1970s. It taught me how to read music, something about which I'd had a complete mental block before; as well as learn for the first time how to play the whistle with proper articulation and ornamentation. Learning to read music has mattered a lot to me, as I'm not naturally quick at picking up tunes and techniques by ear (though familiarity with the music over time does help).
For melodeon playing, Tony Hall from East Anglia. I've never seen or met him, but it was his style above any other that I tried to learn when I got my first box. Most musical diatonic melodeon player in England at the time, maybe still is.
Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Who's your "Grandteacher"?
OK, fun idea. My wife used this term the other day, and I got a kick out of it. Who is your Grandteacher? That is, your teacher's teacher? For instance, a friend of mine studied with Andy McGann, who in turn studied with Michael Coleman for a time, making Coleman my friends' Grandteacher (and, I suppose, his students' Great-Grandteacher). Many folks (like me) have no real "teacher" to speak of, but I suppose it could be extended to include a musician with whom you've played and admire, etc. [Oooh, if that's the case, my Grandteacher is Martin Wynne and my Great-Grandteacher is Martin Mulvihill.] Other folks might have more than one teacher, so I guess you could take this to whatever degree you like. This will be interesting... let 'er rip!!
DK
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by darinkelly
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
One degree to Brian Finnegan. Woohoo!
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Tirno
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I taught myself the concertina - never had a teacher (some would say it shows !) but I was inspired by, and always enjoyed the playing of the late Tom McCarthy of Kilmihil, Co.Clare. I believe he learnt a lot from Stack Ryan, also of that locality.
The other influence on my playing was Packie Russell of Doonagore, Doolin. He learnt from Patty Flanagan, also of Doonagore, and whom I had the privilege of meeting at the Stella Maris nursing home in Lisdoon Varna many years ago when he was in his nineties.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by murfbox
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I don't have a teacher either.
To what extent does a teacher imprint their style and influences on their students?
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Andrés Segovia.
My formal training consisted of a few months of classical guitar lessons with three different teachers, one of whom had been a student of Segovia's. I was, by the way, a bad student.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Oh, and my meditation teacher was taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I think that makes me a second cousin to the Beatles.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Fun topic!
The MacCrimmons?!? I went to summer boot-camps for several years with Jimmy McIntosh for GHB. The lessons were very substantive and intense too - not like these 20-person-a-class deals at a week-long summer camp for ITM, where the focus is the sessions, but the classes are tune-learning sessions with a bit of spare advice about actual technique.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by wormdiet
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I thought I was clever when I thought of the same thing!
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by walterwl
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
My grandteacher is John Williams.
What's sad is that he has no idea that his wonderful grandstudent even exists
Pete
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
This idea is actually how most of my "teachers" have taught--that they are passing on the insights, knowledge, and generosity of their teachers, and that you become one of this "family" of musicians.
So I started out with Linda Danielson, who was taking lessons from Kevin Burke. Then I played with Kevin, who lists his teachers as Jessie Christopherson, Woody and Arlo Guthrie, Andy McGann, P.J. Crotty (and so, Junior Crehan), and Jimi Hendrix.
Another my treasured grandteachers would be Martin Rochford, thanks to the generosity of Cait Reed, a great teacher and friend.
Thanks for starting this thread, Darin--nice to have a chance to give recognition and thanks to our mentors.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Wow... my Grandteacher is.... Leo Rowsome!
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by brianc
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Good point, Will.
It's true that most of us have more than one teacher! Whether they know we're learning from them is another matter - you can have formal teachers, but almost more importantly, you have informal teachers as well.
It's like the old adage of "it takes a village..." This is a large (somewhat incestuous) family to which we belong.
Pete
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
"One time, at band camp....."
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Bob,
We have the same grandteachers.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by ceciltguitar
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
My whistle teacher Frank Simpson, took classes from Mary Bergin in Dublin in the 80's. I was fortunate enough to meet her in Boston when they had Gaelic Roots there one year and take her class. She remembered him well and was really happy he was carrying on the tradition here in L.A. When I listen to his playing I can certainly really hear her influence, but he also ended up listening to alot of other music and developed his own unique sound. Also in his class back then apparently was Marus OMurchu and his style of whistle playing came out with a very different rhythmic style than my teachers.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by lawhistle
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
"One time, at band camp....."
You should leave Mr. Weasel out of this discussion
Pete
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
"We have the same grandteachers."
Does that make us cousins?
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Leo Rowsome
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Hanley
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
"Animal" from the "Muppets". My hero.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Well, playing the dulcimer in a remote little town, I didn't have a teacher. But, for a short time I took pipe (highland) lessons from Ben Holmes in the Denver area (pipe major of the Centenial Pipes and Drums). My understanding is that he is a world class piper, but that's out of my area and I really don't know. Also had several lessons from Dennis McMaster out of Salt Lake (ex-pipe major for the Salt Lake Scots). I also played with a dulcimer player named Joe Jewell, not exactly sure where he is from but somewhere near the Ozark Mountains, but I played with him in Colorado. He is probably the biggest influence on my playing style and the cloesest I have to an actual teacher.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by MartySmith
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Now those are the "teachers" that know about me... about a million others out there that don't, but still teach me a lot.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by MartySmith
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I go to Mike McHale for whistle, and while i'm not sure who taught him, I do know he used to ride his bike a couple of towns over every Sunday to listen to Peter Horan, so as far as I know, perhaps Peter Horan is my Grandteacher?
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
For guitar - John Pearse and Davy Graham.
No-one taught me the 'zouk, I just watched and listened to Moynihan, Irvine, Lunny, et al.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Some woman down the road. And my teacher's mother. And who knows who else, I'm too shy to ask. I say a private thank-you to them every time I try to play one of these tunes of theirs.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
So, Reverend, you also graduated from the Spanish Guitar Centre in London?
Guernsey Pete, I'm trying to work this out. I've never been clear about in-laws and distant cousins.
If I took lessons from John Pearse, who did you take lessons from? Are you my nephew?
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I did a lot of family history research the last couple of years....and learned something through the process....and through the maths!
Some of us a lucky to have a silver or golden thread that is easily traced through the tapestry of our forefathers (mostly because they were the ones regarded as important). In my case through a great grandfather I tapped into minor lords and nobility and found myself with traceable connections to the Queen Mum, and to George Washington, and King Merfyn the Freckled (if you go back far enough). And then I did the math. And if there are only 2 descendants each generation....then my 33rd great grandfather only had a couple of million other descendants on the planet.....and that golden thread wasn't so unique....or so interesting.
And I also discovered that it's often not the 'names' that give you the best stories or influences. It's often the missing pieces. The unnamed grandmothers.
And I think it's the same with music. We can trace back our musical grandfather's and take delight in the names we recognise......and I'm not knocking it......have fun...........but you know....it's weird Aunt Maude who liked adding that extra note here or introduced lingering on that high noted because it gave her time to kick the cottage door shut as the kids raced in.....or to stir the stew on the stove...whom we probably owe just as much to!
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Oldstrings, I was taught by Jack King, who taught on a Tuesday night at Cecil Sharpe House in the '60s'
Where is Jack now ? Must be well-matured. He used to wear a Van Dyke beard ( showed you were arty at that time ) and drove a Mini-Cooper with a gearbox that sounded like it was going to explode. Also ran the Folk Cellar on a Saturday night at the House for some years.
PS My father used to say that if a cousin is more than twice removed they're no longer in the family.
PPS Interesting to find someone else related to King Merfyn the Freckled...
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I swear that my teacher learnt his stuff from Val Doonigan, judjung by the rocking chair and sweater.
He, in turn, learnt from Paddy McGinty, whose original mentor was the goat!
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by riverrunner
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Well, my students did a little project one time where they traced their musical ancestory... there was one that traced their musical lineage through me all the way back to Felix Mendelssohn.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by pastrings
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
and if you're interested to see that lineage... just ask... but I don't anticipate it being a big seller here
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by pastrings
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
pastrings, I would like to see that. PM me if you like.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by darinkelly
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
My teacher for years was myself, and this incestuous relationship led to some congenital defects in my playing. I took some lessons over the past few years from Matt Heaton, from the Boston area, who did some good things with my guitar playing, but I still have far more to learn, so if you ever hear me, don't blame him for the flaws that still remain!
I have also been in some week-long workshops with some fine players, but mentioning those short-term acquaintances would be name-dropping!
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Feck! What Babylonian whores are all your teachers! Running about with so many grandteachers in the dark of night! And ye, the foul offspring of so much sinful collaboration! Bragging of such improprieties! Shame! For SHAME! If thou liest with the fiddlers, ye will gather much rosin dust! May it discolor your trousers and choke your vile souls!
Away with thee to Utah's lecherous deserts!
A pox on thee and your hideous progeny to come!
P.S.: Slut that I am, I suppose I'm related to Martin and Brendan Mulvihill, Wynne, Coleman, Cunningham, Burke, and possibly Reavy and Vesey, the latter few being through one-night stands, aka, "workshops"...of course my playing bears no resemblance to the lineage.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by grymater
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I just realized something. I taught myself to play the fiddle, which means I taught my teacher, which means...
I am my own grandteacher!!
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
I must direct you to the words of The Prophet, peace be upon him, Bob himself (how fitting a name in this context):
Sura 112. al-Ikhlas: The Unity
1
Say: He is Allah, the One!
2
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
3
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
4
And there is none comparable unto Him.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by grymater
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
My teacher's teacher is now my teacher......how the heck does that work....?!?!? I suppose it's Chris Newman (who teaches me now just to confuse things) and Ian Carr. Either way you slice it, however, I've got a lesson with John Renbourn tomorrow afternoon. Who the heck taught him??
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
My teachers are the people I play with in sessions and the musos I listen to on CDs. I could start namedropping tediously like the rest of you, but I've heard quite a lot of CDs in my time, and played in quite a few sessions.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Dow
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
and you can't remember Aunt Maude's name either can you Dow?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
In my case, Robin Williamson's "The Tin Whistle Book" published in the 1970s. It taught me how to read music, something about which I'd had a complete mental block before; as well as learn for the first time how to play the whistle with proper articulation and ornamentation. Learning to read music has mattered a lot to me, as I'm not naturally quick at picking up tunes and techniques by ear (though familiarity with the music over time does help).
For melodeon playing, Tony Hall from East Anglia. I've never seen or met him, but it was his style above any other that I tried to learn when I got my first box. Most musical diatonic melodeon player in England at the time, maybe still is.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Who's your "Grandteacher"?
Wow I´ve realized my Grand Teacher is Carlos Nuñez, Nice!!
# Posted on September 30th 2008 by holywhistler