Hey. I sometimes try playing bass guitar in a trad music conyext, but usually end up with it sounding more like klezmer! I could just bash out 1-4-5s but want advice on ways to get beyond just playing the root note of whatever chord the guitarist is playing. Are there any bands You recommend I listen to? Anyone have any tips?
I usualy play melody instruments for trad but I do play upright bass for bluegrass and some jazz and I play tunes on it too at home and out when the group I am with wants it . For tunes I know well I add subtle fill ins and do few notes of melody where it fits. The key to keeping it a welcome addition it to keep it sparse and low (volume that is). driving bass beat with walks and ornaments runs the blugrass engine but tunes need a delicate touch. stay in key, watch the rhythm -- very carefully-- and spread it thin.
I think Jehanna has it about right.The session which I co-host is fortunate in having a double bass player present on a regular basis. (We also play together in a ceilidh band.) He tends to stick to root notes and fifths, with occasional runs and fills, sometimes bowed drones. Often he doesn't play at all on the first run through a tune, but what a lift he provides when he does join in - usually very simply and sparsely at first, but sometimes putting in more as the tune progresses if appropriate. He is an extremely sensitive player with a good feel for, and knowledge of, the music - valuable qualitites! I miss his input on the few occasions he can't join us.
There is a book/CD by Chris Smith called Celtic Back-Up for all instrumentalists that may give you some ideas. Much of the suggested guitar work seems to lend itself to the bass, since there are a lot of drone+bass lines in the book. There are also examples of the back up played with the different modes and tonic notes.
It was indeed C-Bass, o runcible person.
I've also solved the problem of the flat-fish - with the application of some lemon juice, they become slightly sharper.
So, out of 10 replies so far, 5 have actually had some relevance to the original post. the other 5 have been backchat among others with no bearing on the original thead. Maybe there should be a new thread for those who wish to simply make humorous comments among their chums. (That could really end up being the longest running one..!!)
Or am I being too serious....!!?? Yes, I realise that this post isn't relevant to the original thread either, but I think I'm just feeling grumpy, and also empathetic with the original poster's desire to tap into the wealth of experience that exists in this group.
Eeek! It's the thread Police!
Look, honest, I was just on my way home - I noticed what I thought was a fish-related title and stuck my head in. It wasn't my fault that spoon led me astray. I think you should go back to the station and check up on his record.
Anyways, I'll just slide down this steep bit of bank here and wend my way back to the holt, if it's all the same to you ...
I would just advise that you know the real chords and don't make any assumptions from a bluegrass perspective. I-IV-V doesn't always come across correctly in ITM, where many times the tunes are modal. (i.e. E minor vs G, etc.) We had a bluegrass bass player join us on an Irish jam, and it was kinda painful to listen to I'm sure I've caused pain in my early playing, so I'll give everyone some room. Just my two cents....
If you learn the tunes then you will will know where the changes are. With the majority of diddley music, the changes do not regularly occur at the beginning or half way through the bar. This makes playing regularly on 1 and 3 aka American music very annoying. Learn the tunes, accentuate the change when it happens. Learn the tunes.
The most obvious first step would be to listen to someone else play the bass in the same context. I'm assuming you don't have any firsthand sources for that, meaning the bass, but you could also try to follow a piano player or other experienced backer. I'd say listen to recordings. These are two with a bass which spring to mind:
I'd also assume that most trad recordings with a bass would be from either contemporary musicians, full bands, or both. I could be wrong. If for not for any other reason, then this presents a *splendid* opportunity (..cough..) for you to buy some new CDs. On that note, I think I might just go find myself a similar pretense...
Ha ha, I like the third postint in the comments for that recording:
"I agree that for the most part this is a "wunnerful" CD - with the exception of the bass."
"Which is a curiously circular fact, given that many trout are caught on flies made with ptarmigan feathers" - I know Ottery it's great, all I have to do is dangle my butt over the river's edge & in no time at all, hey presto, a big fat juicy Trout bites my ar$e & then it's straight into the pan!
As for the thread police - wooooooooooo he's scarey, ......... maybe something just bit his ar$e too!
Anyway, just in case, I'd better make this post relevant, so:
Hey, you might like to check out these two Scottish bands. Still prefer Coolfin myself but you might like them & perhaps get some ideas, listening to them.
With a sea bass, try to find a monger that has them ungutted and get them to do a pin hole gutting. You make a small incision just beneath the gills rather than the complete slice. They'll do it, skilful people love such stuff. Get some olive oil, fresh rosemary, garlic and lemon thyme, squeeze it through the pin hole and bake the fish whole in as hot an oven as you can get. If the oven is hot enough, ten mins should do it.
That sounds tasty michael.
Thesceptic, what the others say is true. Listen, and learn. There is no formula. There are those who play bass in Irish music. They are few and far between, but if that's what you want to do, listen to them, and, as Michael says 'Learn the tunes'.
Don't give it the old 1-4-5 .....
As a long time bass player, I'll be happy to chat with you off-line about this topic. While I don't usually find bass belongs in a straight-trad project, I do include it on my fusion projects.
I'll give you the link to one of those if you care to contact me.
I remember a way way long time ago, John Whelan's wife to be, Louise, used to play stand up bass with him. She was really good, and it was a hoot to watch, she was so little, the bass seemed to tower over her. I saw them a handful of times at the old Eagle Tavern in NYC. Wonder if she is on any of his recordings.
Bass
Bass
Hey. I sometimes try playing bass guitar in a trad music conyext, but usually end up with it sounding more like klezmer! I could just bash out 1-4-5s but want advice on ways to get beyond just playing the root note of whatever chord the guitarist is playing. Are there any bands You recommend I listen to? Anyone have any tips?
thesceptic
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by thesceptic
Re: Bass
learn the tunes
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Bass
I usualy play melody instruments for trad but I do play upright bass for bluegrass and some jazz and I play tunes on it too at home and out when the group I am with wants it . For tunes I know well I add subtle fill ins and do few notes of melody where it fits. The key to keeping it a welcome addition it to keep it sparse and low (volume that is). driving bass beat with walks and ornaments runs the blugrass engine but tunes need a delicate touch. stay in key, watch the rhythm -- very carefully-- and spread it thin.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by jehanna
Re: Bass
An antisceptic comment from Mr. Gill there.
Strangely enough myself and Mrs. Ottery enjoyed a couple of fillets of Bass for supper last night ....
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Ottery
Re: Bass
I think Jehanna has it about right.The session which I co-host is fortunate in having a double bass player present on a regular basis. (We also play together in a ceilidh band.) He tends to stick to root notes and fifths, with occasional runs and fills, sometimes bowed drones. Often he doesn't play at all on the first run through a tune, but what a lift he provides when he does join in - usually very simply and sparsely at first, but sometimes putting in more as the tune progresses if appropriate. He is an extremely sensitive player with a good feel for, and knowledge of, the music - valuable qualitites! I miss his input on the few occasions he can't join us.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by ocarolan
Re: Bass
There is a book/CD by Chris Smith called Celtic Back-Up for all instrumentalists that may give you some ideas. Much of the suggested guitar work seems to lend itself to the bass, since there are a lot of drone+bass lines in the book. There are also examples of the back up played with the different modes and tonic notes.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by pearse
Re: Bass
"Strangely enough myself and Mrs. Ottery enjoyed a couple of fillets of Bass for supper last night ...."
Was that C-Bass, Ottery?
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by ragaman
Re: Bass
Try Coolfin, one of Donal Lunny's projects
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/162
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Backer
Re: Bass
It was indeed C-Bass, o runcible person.
I've also solved the problem of the flat-fish - with the application of some lemon juice, they become slightly sharper.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Ottery
Re: Bass
Ottery, last night the Ptarmigans ate Trout!
I'll 2nd that Backer - Coolfin were braw!
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Bass
Which is a curiously circular fact, given that many trout are caught on flies made with ptarmigan feathers ....
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Ottery
Re: Bass
So, out of 10 replies so far, 5 have actually had some relevance to the original post. the other 5 have been backchat among others with no bearing on the original thead. Maybe there should be a new thread for those who wish to simply make humorous comments among their chums. (That could really end up being the longest running one..!!)
Or am I being too serious....!!?? Yes, I realise that this post isn't relevant to the original thread either, but I think I'm just feeling grumpy, and also empathetic with the original poster's desire to tap into the wealth of experience that exists in this group.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by ocarolan
Re: Bass
Eeek! It's the thread Police!
Look, honest, I was just on my way home - I noticed what I thought was a fish-related title and stuck my head in. It wasn't my fault that spoon led me astray. I think you should go back to the station and check up on his record.
Anyways, I'll just slide down this steep bit of bank here and wend my way back to the holt, if it's all the same to you ...
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Ottery
Re: Bass
I would just advise that you know the real chords and don't make any assumptions from a bluegrass perspective. I-IV-V doesn't always come across correctly in ITM, where many times the tunes are modal. (i.e. E minor vs G, etc.) We had a bluegrass bass player join us on an Irish jam, and it was kinda painful to listen to I'm sure I've caused pain in my early playing, so I'll give everyone some room. Just my two cents....
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by nofrets
Re: Bass
If you learn the tunes then you will will know where the changes are. With the majority of diddley music, the changes do not regularly occur at the beginning or half way through the bar. This makes playing regularly on 1 and 3 aka American music very annoying. Learn the tunes, accentuate the change when it happens. Learn the tunes.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Bass
The most obvious first step would be to listen to someone else play the bass in the same context. I'm assuming you don't have any firsthand sources for that, meaning the bass, but you could also try to follow a piano player or other experienced backer. I'd say listen to recordings. These are two with a bass which spring to mind:
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/548
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/949
I'd also assume that most trad recordings with a bass would be from either contemporary musicians, full bands, or both. I could be wrong. If for not for any other reason, then this presents a *splendid* opportunity (..cough..) for you to buy some new CDs. On that note, I think I might just go find myself a similar pretense...
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by gravelwalks
Re: Bass
Ha ha, I like the third postint in the comments for that recording:
"I agree that for the most part this is a "wunnerful" CD - with the exception of the bass."
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Bass
"Which is a curiously circular fact, given that many trout are caught on flies made with ptarmigan feathers" - I know Ottery it's great, all I have to do is dangle my butt over the river's edge & in no time at all, hey presto, a big fat juicy Trout bites my ar$e & then it's straight into the pan!
As for the thread police - wooooooooooo he's scarey, ......... maybe something just bit his ar$e too!
Anyway, just in case, I'd better make this post relevant, so:
Hey, you might like to check out these two Scottish bands. Still prefer Coolfin myself but you might like them & perhaps get some ideas, listening to them.
Fred Morrison Band has Duncan Lyall on bass:
http://www.myspace.com/fredmorrisonband
Finlay MacDonald Band has John Speirs on Bass:
http://www.myspace.com/finlaymacdonaldband
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Bass
With a sea bass, try to find a monger that has them ungutted and get them to do a pin hole gutting. You make a small incision just beneath the gills rather than the complete slice. They'll do it, skilful people love such stuff. Get some olive oil, fresh rosemary, garlic and lemon thyme, squeeze it through the pin hole and bake the fish whole in as hot an oven as you can get. If the oven is hot enough, ten mins should do it.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Bass
Some bass players who come to mind:
Trevor Hutchinson - Lúnasa, Sharon Shannon, Waterboys
Andrew Laking - Gráda
Chico Huff - Solas, Karen Casey, Seamus Egan, Cathie Ryan, Liz Carroll
Eoghan O'Neill - Moving Hearts, Riverdance
Ronnie O' Flynn - Coolfin, Sharon Shannon
Danny Thompson - Pentangle, Transatlantic Sessions, John Doyle
Ewan Vernal - Kate Rusby, John McCusker, Capercaille, Flook, Mike McGoldrick
Andy Seward - Kate Rusby, John McCusker
Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill - Bothy Band, Touchstone (left-hand clavinet bass)
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by MTGuru
Re: Bass
That sounds tasty michael.
Thesceptic, what the others say is true. Listen, and learn. There is no formula. There are those who play bass in Irish music. They are few and far between, but if that's what you want to do, listen to them, and, as Michael says 'Learn the tunes'.
Don't give it the old 1-4-5 .....
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by Ottery
Re: Bass
As a long time bass player, I'll be happy to chat with you off-line about this topic. While I don't usually find bass belongs in a straight-trad project, I do include it on my fusion projects.
I'll give you the link to one of those if you care to contact me.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by KC Gross
Re: Bass
If Bass Blue Label is still brewed, it should go well with fish.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: Bass
I remember a way way long time ago, John Whelan's wife to be, Louise, used to play stand up bass with him. She was really good, and it was a hoot to watch, she was so little, the bass seemed to tower over her. I saw them a handful of times at the old Eagle Tavern in NYC. Wonder if she is on any of his recordings.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Bass
Thanks everyone, Im reading all of these helpful suggestions. And some of the plain strange....bass is good but i like Makrel betters.
# Posted on March 25th 2007 by thesceptic
Re: Bass
Speaking of John Whelan, here he is with his band & Tommy Makem - on the far right you'll see an Acoustic Bass guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=847fvzSMHt4
# Posted on March 25th 2007 by Ptarmigan