When I'm backing Drowsey Maggie and Cooleys (Em tunes) I start of using Em then D, Then i think it goes Em to G but it sounds like there's another chord i'm missing to round of the first part, any suggestions what other chords would work here? Thanks in advance.
In light of the "unfairness" thread;
Fap, These tunes are quite different. although they may start in the same key. Drowey Maggie Changes to D Major in The second part.
Someone here will tell you the right chords, or maybe you should do a search. This I'm pretty sure has been discussed before.
Develop a thick skin for the rest of this thread....
I spent 10 years learning tunes, playing flute and whistle, before I started playing guitar. It sure makes guitar easier when you can play the tunes. There are no "right" chords, only the mood or color you want to set at the moment.
"There are no "right" chords, only the mood or color you want to set at the moment."
There are many more wrong chords than right ones, though. Those in my very limited experience who think that there are no right chords seem to play all the wrong ones except by accident.
I am sure that Eliot is a shining exception to my experience.
Feardearg -- there are a lot of crappy guitarists who play wrong chords, don't know strumming patterns for the music, and ruin the experience for all. That's why I suggest learning the tunes first. Know the chord scales. Know some substitutions. Practice at home not at the session. Blah blah blah. I don't suck at guitar, that's about all I will say in public about my playing.
Fap, no funny stuff...here is some serious and logical advice which works....In *any tune* if you want to find the missing chord, go to the part and note(s) where you think it's missing. Then figure out what note that is, even if it means slowing it down and hunting and pecking for it by ear, or figuring it out with sheet music. Either find the chord relevant to that note or notes, or make up a partial chord around it with another sympathetic note. Or just throw the note in at that particluar spot, instead of making a chord. You can just touch on it if a full chord doesn't fit right....doesn't have to be all chording all the time. It makes backing or accompanying more interesting too.
It really does help to know the tunes as Eliot says. Learn them in your head, and the only way is to immerse youself in the music and keep playing and practicing.
copo24, we're not all "just backers", a good many of us really do learn the tunes, inside out and back, know them well enough to throw in melody where desired, or can play them as a tune if we want, and can carry it on when the melody players sometimes lose the tune, and be right there at the right spot with the right timing, when they get back on track. Sometimes we even, dare i say, save a performance for a melody player who slips up, which any will do sometimes. There are good guitar players, bad guitar players, bad fiddlers, good fiddlers same for all other instruments. I really don't want to get going again on guitar bashing, and will cut out here. It's getting so, so boring.
Hope this works for you Fap. Try it, bet it will. Doesn't matter what tune it is. This is something you can do with any tune and it's not that difficult. Good luck.... and don't worry about the bad comments on guitar players here.
Eliot...just curious, having played melody too, which to you is the more challenging, playing melody well or backing well?
I was on track long ago with mandolin, not great, but decent at it and getting better, I used it for breaks from guitar for a group I was playing with. Then made a decision to put it down to focus solely on guitar because I loved the challenge of both fingerstyle tune playing and of backing more and rather than be a Jill of all trades... just focus on the one I liked better and really dive into it.
I think backing takes a whole lot of imagination and creativity, is less structured of course than a melody, and I just really love doing it. it's like swimming freely to me but is by no means easy. it is a lot of work and you do need to know the tunes in your head to do it decently. You know the tune yet your hands are doing something different, yet keeping the tune in your head at the same time.
I was having a bit of trouble playing MCDonough's reel on guitar as a fingerstyle tune in DADGAD a few weeks back, and tried it on mandolin and it was really easy there. I really want to do it on guitar though and will continue to drive myself nuts until I get it. I have the tune down fine, it's getting the flow and decent tempo to it that is the goal.
It's a shame that many people think we took up guitar because we couldn't cut it as a melody player. Drummers get the same knocking. OK...was not going to get back on that topic.
The fact that you can hear there's a chord change that you need to play is a good sign even if you can't find the actual chord yet. Iris' advice is as good as ever, and Elliot's statement about "no right chord" is true, however there'll be a finite number of "right" chords and an infinite number of "wrong" ones! It's true though that the wrong chord played with the right rhythm is better than the right chord with the wrong rhythm (if you're playing at a sympathetic volume).
At the end of the day, there are 6 simple chords (use of the 7th is a bit of an art) in each chord scale/mode. Chances are at least one of these chords will fit - unless its a tune with loads of accidentals. In which case, you really have to know the tune (at least to sing) and pre-plan the chord sequence.
I find both extremely challenging and satisfying, and don't put one above the other in difficulty or creativity. As a melody player for so many years, I always discounted the guitar . It was all about being a tune whore and perfecting the "flow". Now as a guitarist (mainly) with my band and at the local session I have a different opinion.
A few weeks ago the session was sounding horrible (to me). Out of tune and off beat. No pulse. This reel set started and I found this really syncopated and rocking chord progression and afterwards everyone complemented each other (but not me) on how well they sounded.
Guitarists are the first to get blamed for being off beat or out of tune or playing the wrong chords, but they don't often get the kudos that melody players get. That's the toughest part -- it's tough on the ego. And everyone seems to have their opinion about how guitarists should sound. Too loud, too soft, more melody, more chords, more baselines, whatever.
I am so fortunate to play with a band -- that's where the guitar really happens, when everyone knows exactly what they want and shares it to the best of their abilities. If I were just a session guitarist, I would get very depressed.
I sit at home with the metronome and practice strumming patterns for hours at all sorts of different speeds. To me it is all right hand -- knowing the melodies, the chords come easy and I don't miss many, but being able to drive the pulse, that's what it's all about. Most guitarists worry too much about the left hand, about playing the right chords. Just play the tonic (damn it), and see if you can make that sound good for a whole time through the piece. Pick up some sort of rocking 5-th chord substitution at the end of the second B part, and drive the tune. That's when you know you're there.
Without any sarcasm, and as a guitarist/mandolin player trying to learn fiddle, I would try A. You've got Em, D, G so there has to be an A in there somewhere.
Iris, I'd like to take a pass at your question too (if you don't mind). Backing and playing a melody present different challenges and give different satisfactions.
What melody players often don't realize is that playing a good backing part can be more challenging than playing the melody. It's not just plonking out chords, it's choosing which chords and voicings to play, where to put them, what rhythmic pattern to use, when to play and when not to play, when to use a fill or bassline- and doing all this while listening to someone else play the melody. When you do it right, it supports the melody and makes it sound better- the job of a backer is to make the melody player sound better.
On the other hand, when you get past working out how to finger a melody (no small task), you still have the challenge of playing it with the drive or kick of a fiddle or other melody instrument. An acoustic guitar just haven't the sustain a fiddle has, so it takes a bit of virtuosity and inventiveness to pull it off.
I like 'em both.
And Eliot- yeah, the right hand is the "engine," and the playing tonic (if you mean the root of the chord) is a butt-saver.
If you want to hear someone play the chords to DM, you can download a legal mp3 of tune as performedc by Fox Watson (fiddle) and Laurie Diehl (guitar).
"I think backing ... is less structured of course than a melody"
Now, I would really take issue with this were it not for the fact that I've heard *your* backing, and it's plenty structured - sounds lovely.
I'm just worried that others, maybe not such great backers as you, will think they have some sort of carte blanche.
Personally, I think backing is really hard to do well, and ought to be as carefully structured as possible if it's not to ruin the music. There are very definite limits too to what you can do.
As I say, your own playing is absolutely lovely, so I'm guessing I've misinterepreted you ...?
Would the melody players not need to be structured too? Backing is of it's nature " background". If it is'nt, well it is'nt backing! The limits, Benhall 1 are in the head. I was lucky enough to see Moving Hearts in Dublin two nights ago, ... now thats what you call backing, and not a limit in sight!
Are you based in Dublin, Backer? You can show me how it's done later this week, as I'm over there from Thursday for a few days ...
btw, I do think there are 'limits' - maybe wrong word? (I seem to be having trouble expressing myself this morning) - for both backers and melody players. I think I was trying to say that I would have thought that both need to be equally 'structured' in their playing - of course, that could mean that they're both relatively 'unstructured'. I just don't see why one set of musicians is more - or less - constrained than the other.
And I freely admit that this may be down to me not understanding this properly. If that's the case, help me out, someone ...
Benhall..... maybe using a single word like structure to describe the whole range of stuff that happens in backing was a mistake. Now that you're forcing me to think (and not quite yet caffienated this AM either!) let me try to explain.
Whan i say less structured... the better way to explain is to say you can back the same tune quite a few different ways, where if you do that with melody, you've....congratulations.... either written a new tune or will come up with a whole new setting of it.
I see what you mean... my playing in a sense is structured, but in another it's not. I may lower the volume to a whisper sometimes, just drone softly and let the fiddler or flute, box, whatever, fly out there if they are doing something incredible and I don't think I should be so "heard" right there.... then fade back in and really hit the stressed notes with them. This is never ever planned ahead, as it would generally be in playing melody, a "this note comes now" kind of thing, though of course there is a lot of that or you'd mess up the tune. It's like you can slip some moments in of a different mood or way of playing more than a melody player can, though they can do that too at times, especially the most experienced players.
I don't think I have ever backed the same tune in exactly the same way even if played hundreds of times.It's all about feeling to me. What will make that melody, that player sound best at that moment. It changes all the time with different players. There is of course a major basic structure, otherwise you'd get the chords/notes all wrong, but there is more room for variation within what you are doing.
Also.... sometimes you need to do a "save" for a melody player. Not to say I never mess up too, believe me I do, we all do, but hopefully not at the same time! When I see a melody player floundering a bit, and I have the tune in my head, I will play a bit stronger, and keep on with the tune, maybe toss in a few notes, and they catch it again where it's supposed to be, and the audience rarley notices.... and right.... the melody player gets credit for being perfection! As Eliot says we will never get the credit. I don't really care, I am in love with this music and in love with the instrument, and a set played well is what matters, it's just a beautiful exhilerating moment in time and fleetingly lost when it's done, except for in your memory. And you will get credit in the form of the melody player being glad you are with them if you did it right, and even if they say nothing, though usually they do (not always good, LOL!), if they hire you again, that's a great satisfaction.
Also, Eliot, about it being hard on the ego, of course it is. I realized that long ago, and when I stopped caring and realized it was not all about me, and people were listening to the melody player, it became even more wonderful in a strange way. It was like this door opened up, an epiphany, it IS all about the melody player, and that's OK and how it's supposed to be. From there, if you go through that door and leave the ego behind, I really believe most will become a better backer. You stop devoting a big part of your brain power to "look at me" and can apply it to focusing on the music and overall sound.
I have seen many players who have walked through that door, and become great backers, and others who could not, who wanted to compete with the melody player for most heard, and people ended up hating them, even if they did get all the chords/notes right. People are just not focusing on us, unless we're doing a solo performance, that's the way it is, that's the way it should be, and once people get that and view the melody as the precious thing it is and give it what it wants at the moment, they will understand how to back better. Just my two cents, other ideas may be different. In a sense also, maybe the melody player checks their ego too in order to let the melody fly. The best melody players I have met are those who are totally in love with the tunes in the truest sense and do not think about people saying how great they are. In fact many are extremely shy and modest people.
I also do not think a melody played well needs "driving" as some backers think they need to do, but a lot of weaker melody players are sometimes saved by someone providing a driving rhythm. Also a large group/session with people losing the timing, you might jump in with a steady metronome like drone and try to reel it in, pardon the pun. In an ideal world with an incredible melody player and a great backer though, I think the backer will, rather than "drive" the melody, sort of weavee in and out in a tasteful way. Other times, say people want to dance to the tune, maybe you would be more driving... but mainly I am talking about just playing for listeners.
gone on too long as usual! sorry Ben, I have a way of making a short story too long. It's the writer in me, once it starts......LOL!
OK. Thanks, Iris, I think I understand what you meant a bit more now. Not sure I agree with you 100%, though.
In the end, what matters is, as I hope people generally would agree, you have a great attitude to backing AND, even more importantly, your backing is really great.
So, how you get there becomes less relevant, except in so far as it would be good for the rest of the world to pick up on any good advice they might glean ...
Anyway, in answer to the original post, there *is* no missing chord - the less chords the better!
Fap, What tuning are you using?Try A7'th after the E minor into the D on the second or if your feeling contraversial, the third tims around of Cooleys, and then reap the rewards and kick the melody player in the shin...
Iris.. Good question...but a pretty pointless one too.
There's no answer. The melody challenge is inexplicable only to pure backers (although I know countless virtuoso's on this site will only be happy to divulge from their vaste knowledge)
There are many many better melody players then there are backers, hence the bad name. But, most of my favourite albums have backing ..... double edged sword and all that...
Listen to the tune recorded by someone else and work it out.
As someone else said. Pick the tune and find the right note.
Good luck and enjoy it, and say no to drugs!
S
I am running out to play,,, I will ask someone to play Cooley's and Drowsy and see what I come up with. I am really bad in final analysis because of being a total ear player, but will try.
Ben... depends who is playing, sometimes less chords are better for sure.... I prefer a mix, where you chord along, then break into some of the melody and fingers all over the place. Then back. What I really don't like is when it sounds all the same all the way through with no little surprises popping in on a whim.
Hugo...not arguing with you but just curious....There are many more melody players period, so one would wonder by averages if it's pretty much the same. Maybe because of fewer backers out there it's more noticeable, what percent of backers are bad? I don't mean style.... I mean very incompetent. Not everyone will like everyone's style, not even in fiddling or among melody players in general. They often knock each other. I know people who hate Kevin Burke and love Tommy Peoples and vice versa, but you can't say either stink. Loaded question. Uh oh...... this sure got off topic.... Fap, will try and figure it out... I am not one to rest on chords, so will try.
"People who hate Kevin Burke and love Tommy Peoples and vice versa."
I would suggest that those who fall into either of these catagories really are complete ignorant eedjits - I wish I was allowed to swear more convincingly.
yeah llig,... Tommy/Kevin both great, the style is different so maybe some just don't like a style. Still they respect the one they are not overly fond of .Some have said TP is too staccato, others have said KB too legato. Whatever, have heard it numerous times, as recently again as a month ago... and will pass along that you think they are eedjits next time I see them.
Fap... I got someone to play Cooly's to analyze where my fingers on guitar were going, but left before DM.... have you tried something in the B or B# family, minors or 7ths perhaps, I am not good at the technicalities, but they don't sound major at all. I don't know what you'd do for a chord, but the notes fit there. I don't chord them, I note them on the lowest string, playing dropped D way high up the neck on the 9th & 10th fret, each a note's worth, then back to a D and end back on the Em and there the part of the tune ends. Same for part B. I think that's possibly the part you hear where something should be other than the Em, G, D.
Play with it, see if it works for you. There's a lot more you can toss in as well if you take the time to learn the tune. Try at least flatpicking it out, it will really help in getting the chords right, or to play part melody some of the time too. Try a B minor there for starters, I believe we are talking about the same part. In dropped D it would be three fingers straight down in a row on the 9th fret. Not sure what tuning you are in. I hit on the 10th fret on the sharp, descend a note down to the B, dart back to the D, back home to Em.
Some of the people engaging in these celtic sessions ought to join a bridge club or go out bowling that evening and
leave the sessions to people who actually spend their
precious time perfecting their craft.
hauke...thanks for the kind words...have we crossed paths? I see you are in Harrisburg PA... about 2-3 hours from me. Warning...not all like my style.... I get told at times to flatpick and just do chords, "like everyone else". I like to know the melody and jump in with some notes where it works and play fingerstyle for backing. I have gotten told to play like John Doyle, because my playing is not "Irish Style". Seems it was before the Doyle sound came along, but then I was out of the loop for many years session-wise.True enough it doesn't suit the more hard driving band sound, more low key.
Come to our IAANJ session if you are ever passing through, maybe en route to NYC or something if you ever go. We have a lot of fun there. It came after a long line of bar gigs and sessions, and is a delightful change, in a big hall, kids, babies, old people, young people, dancers, Irish speakers, great food all free. Wish it was more than once a month. We always get a really good guest host out too.
We have (plug, plug) some great house-style concerts coming up too with sessions after. 3/30 we have Maeve Donnelly and Tony McManus, talk about an amazing guitar player, and 6/30 Angelina Carberry and Martin Quinn. We may fill in with another bewtween those too. We've had Jackie Daly, Paddy Keenan, Noel Hill, so far, it's a new series....all super nights. Some of these would be worth your trip.
hauke... an open session is an open session, you get who you get, and hopefully the spirit of fun and respect prevails. Sometimes it's a dud, other times the best, anywhere, any open session. I have learned not to expect high end music, though it's really great when it happens. If you want that, a session by invite only is in order. Or do it as a gig. Whatever, I am too old a bird to take any of it so seriously, it's just nice to get out and let loose. If it's a dud musically at least you can go socialize with your friends a bit.
Funny Hugo. Maybe because he *is* Irish and became so well known and so many Doyle wannabes are out there. He is a great player, esp. fun to watch live, but to say anyone who doesn't play like him isn't playing Irish style is silly.
Maybe I should say I play Breton style since that's in my genes. It would make for a good comeback anyway. It's hard to take seriously.
Hey Fap... where are you, did you try that B minor? Just keeping on track here.
There's no such thing as traditional Irish (or Scottish etc) guitar. Guitar in trad. isn't yet 100 years old (by a fair margin at that), DADGAD was "invented" (certainly popularised) by Davey Graham in the 60s although drop-D has its origins in classical guitar.
I firmly maintain that being a skilled exponent of chord use in traditional music doesn't make you "just like everyone else". Round here, more people can play fingerstyle (in a session unsuitable manner) than a convincing plectrum-style rhythm guitar (although they aren't at the sessions, which perhaps is the point). That said, Doyle's guitar playing isn't quite my cup of tea either.
This disagreement will continue to exist till my computer breaks / gets stolen. Which, in the interests of diversity, is probably a good thing.....
I ws just thinking... I know lots of really excellent guitar players -fingerstyle and flatpick tune players, that is, but not one who's a really excellent accompanist.
FIngerstyle can be session suitable, it's not always the folky song accompaniment patterns one is used to hearing. It can be every bit as intense and emotional as a flatpick strummer. Depends who is doing it. Look at Martin Carthy for an example of finger accomanyment, even if with Dave Swarbrick. Tony McManus too when backing.
Bob.... is it thou you speakest of, LOL! the "one"?
This disagreement will persist Andy, I am so getting tired of it, can't believe I broke my vow to stop posting about it! Shall TRY to quit now. Have to get some work done!
WHERE is FAP, who started this thread? I really wonder if that's your missing chord.
Bob....Accompaniment is the joy of my life, my addiction. I hope I do it well! I play tunes on guitar too, but love backing more, though throw in bits of melody here and there. love both melody and backing, but there's something about backing that grabs me, and it is not because it is easier, I find it more challenging.... it's a lifelong study for me, it is an art, and a life isn't long enough, no matter how long, to learn everything. And you have to learn the tunes. I have been telling people that for years. You don't have a shot unless those tunes are learned, and also the general melodic structures of all types of tunes in case you ever need to wing it, and a memory for those that deviate from the norm, and a memory for new tunes so you have them in your head the second time around they are played...or you're just not going to be able to do it right. Maybe therein lies the challenge, keeping the tune in your head while the fingers are doing something else? Don't know, but I feel a really keen edge mentally while backing, you really have to be on the same wavelength as the melody player in an almost telepathic way.
Gee.... I wish fap would come back, after I went and analyzed the tune for the missing chord. I am curious as to whether we're talking about the same part of the tune. Hopefully he/she was not turned off by the guitar thrashing and bashing.
iris, keep up the comments, you always have something good to contribute to these threads.
Just saw John Doyle the other night with Liz Carrol, and they were awesome. Lots of drive, energy and passion, and incredible technical skills! Although I can see why people chafe at calling some of what they do "traditional."
What I was most impressed with, though, is how confident and energetic John's singing is getting--it is becoming one of the things I look forward to in their concerts!
Iris, I don't get a lot of opportunities to do backup, and then it's mostly bluegrass, old-time or cajun, but I know what you mean about the near-telepathic thing. Whether you're playing backup guitar or triangle, when you make that mind-meld and hit the sweet spot of the groove, it's magic.
Hi Al... I saw Doyle last year, I really love his singing, straight from the heart, pure, unaffected. Like him, if you ever met him, really a sweet guy. I know guys don't like to be called "sweet", lol!! I like to listen to him when I get tired of my own playing, like going to a restaurant and ordering something you'd never cook, often because you don't know how, and really enjoy it. I couldn't play like Doyle if my life depended on it, it's just not in me that way. I still like him. Martin Carthy, Tony McManus and John Renbourne I WOULD like to play a little more like, LOL!
I played with Renbourne at a friend's house a year and a half ago, we were just sitting around taking turns playing tunes, just five people then I was MORTIFIED.... he asked me to teach *him* a tune he liked that I played... it was O'Carolan's Welcome. Of course he was playing it better than me in about 10 minutes!! gasp! I made him swear he'd never record it, he'd make my recording of it sound terrible. Just kidding him... of course he can. But it was a scary moment after having him as my idol for 30 years.
Bob... the telepathic thing, I don't get it, sometimes you just go into the next tune in the right key a split second ahead of them. And it can happen with someone you never played with before, and don't know their sets...SPOOKY. Or you both stress a note at the same time out of the blue. I remember one person asking... "How did you know what tune I was going into?" It's great when that happens. Maybe people should be a little scared of us...think twice before guitar bashing!
Iris,
Reckon John Renbourn will still know it? Just as I'm getting a guitar lesson from him in about 10 hours (a strange conincidence, but true nontheless, really!), I like the tune and it probably makes a rather nice open-tuned arrangement. Is it the kind of thing that'd suit itself well to a one-off lesson?
Hey... tell John hello from me. I have had the pleasure of his company numerous times over the years, and he is a real gent and a brilliant genious if a musician.
I'm still lurking, generally, but I'm definately not trading under the name Hugo; that'd be someone else. I'm also definately not John Renbourn, that would just be silly (and I'm fairly certain it's impossible to suggest I was claiming to be him).....
On a (slightly) more serious note, my lesson was excellent - he'd chosen to do small group sessions as opposed to 1:1s so it turned into a bit of a guitarist's sing/play around after about an hour which was a bit unexpected but nontheless incredibly good fun (and actually very rewarding from a learning point of view in a curiously osmotic kind of way). I hope he'll be back again next year!!
Help with Backing, chord missing
Help with Backing, chord missing
When I'm backing Drowsey Maggie and Cooleys (Em tunes) I start of using Em then D, Then i think it goes Em to G but it sounds like there's another chord i'm missing to round of the first part, any suggestions what other chords would work here? Thanks in advance.
# Posted on February 10th 2007 by fap
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
In light of the "unfairness" thread;
Fap, These tunes are quite different. although they may start in the same key. Drowey Maggie Changes to D Major in The second part.
Someone here will tell you the right chords, or maybe you should do a search. This I'm pretty sure has been discussed before.
Develop a thick skin for the rest of this thread....
# Posted on February 10th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I come prepared to be whipped!
# Posted on February 10th 2007 by fap
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Google is your friend, lol.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=drowsy+maggie+chords&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Tigermoth
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
If ud just learn the tune, ud be able to play it. Honestly u guitarists, ur just a pack of backers
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by copo24
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I spent 10 years learning tunes, playing flute and whistle, before I started playing guitar. It sure makes guitar easier when you can play the tunes. There are no "right" chords, only the mood or color you want to set at the moment.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Eliot
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
well done derek! yeah yeah!
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by fap
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
"There are no "right" chords, only the mood or color you want to set at the moment."
There are many more wrong chords than right ones, though. Those in my very limited experience who think that there are no right chords seem to play all the wrong ones except by accident.
I am sure that Eliot is a shining exception to my experience.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by feardearg
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Feardearg -- there are a lot of crappy guitarists who play wrong chords, don't know strumming patterns for the music, and ruin the experience for all. That's why I suggest learning the tunes first. Know the chord scales. Know some substitutions. Practice at home not at the session. Blah blah blah. I don't suck at guitar, that's about all I will say in public about my playing.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Eliot
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Fap, no funny stuff...here is some serious and logical advice which works....In *any tune* if you want to find the missing chord, go to the part and note(s) where you think it's missing. Then figure out what note that is, even if it means slowing it down and hunting and pecking for it by ear, or figuring it out with sheet music. Either find the chord relevant to that note or notes, or make up a partial chord around it with another sympathetic note. Or just throw the note in at that particluar spot, instead of making a chord. You can just touch on it if a full chord doesn't fit right....doesn't have to be all chording all the time. It makes backing or accompanying more interesting too.
It really does help to know the tunes as Eliot says. Learn them in your head, and the only way is to immerse youself in the music and keep playing and practicing.
copo24, we're not all "just backers", a good many of us really do learn the tunes, inside out and back, know them well enough to throw in melody where desired, or can play them as a tune if we want, and can carry it on when the melody players sometimes lose the tune, and be right there at the right spot with the right timing, when they get back on track. Sometimes we even, dare i say, save a performance for a melody player who slips up, which any will do sometimes. There are good guitar players, bad guitar players, bad fiddlers, good fiddlers same for all other instruments. I really don't want to get going again on guitar bashing, and will cut out here. It's getting so, so boring.
Hope this works for you Fap. Try it, bet it will. Doesn't matter what tune it is. This is something you can do with any tune and it's not that difficult. Good luck.... and don't worry about the bad comments on guitar players here.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Eliot...just curious, having played melody too, which to you is the more challenging, playing melody well or backing well?
I was on track long ago with mandolin, not great, but decent at it and getting better, I used it for breaks from guitar for a group I was playing with. Then made a decision to put it down to focus solely on guitar because I loved the challenge of both fingerstyle tune playing and of backing more and rather than be a Jill of all trades... just focus on the one I liked better and really dive into it.
I think backing takes a whole lot of imagination and creativity, is less structured of course than a melody, and I just really love doing it. it's like swimming freely to me but is by no means easy. it is a lot of work and you do need to know the tunes in your head to do it decently. You know the tune yet your hands are doing something different, yet keeping the tune in your head at the same time.
I was having a bit of trouble playing MCDonough's reel on guitar as a fingerstyle tune in DADGAD a few weeks back, and tried it on mandolin and it was really easy there. I really want to do it on guitar though and will continue to drive myself nuts until I get it. I have the tune down fine, it's getting the flow and decent tempo to it that is the goal.
It's a shame that many people think we took up guitar because we couldn't cut it as a melody player. Drummers get the same knocking. OK...was not going to get back on that topic.
So Eliot... just wondered what you thought.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
The fact that you can hear there's a chord change that you need to play is a good sign even if you can't find the actual chord yet. Iris' advice is as good as ever, and Elliot's statement about "no right chord" is true, however there'll be a finite number of "right" chords and an infinite number of "wrong" ones! It's true though that the wrong chord played with the right rhythm is better than the right chord with the wrong rhythm (if you're playing at a sympathetic volume).
At the end of the day, there are 6 simple chords (use of the 7th is a bit of an art) in each chord scale/mode. Chances are at least one of these chords will fit - unless its a tune with loads of accidentals. In which case, you really have to know the tune (at least to sing) and pre-plan the chord sequence.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
in cooleys you may be looking for the f# change on the 8 lines and the BM7 on the run. for DM it is
em em d em g
em em d em g
d d d d g
d d A7 A/d g
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by jehanna
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
irisnevins -- great question
I find both extremely challenging and satisfying, and don't put one above the other in difficulty or creativity. As a melody player for so many years, I always discounted the guitar . It was all about being a tune whore and perfecting the "flow". Now as a guitarist (mainly) with my band and at the local session I have a different opinion.
A few weeks ago the session was sounding horrible (to me). Out of tune and off beat. No pulse. This reel set started and I found this really syncopated and rocking chord progression and afterwards everyone complemented each other (but not me) on how well they sounded.
Guitarists are the first to get blamed for being off beat or out of tune or playing the wrong chords, but they don't often get the kudos that melody players get. That's the toughest part -- it's tough on the ego. And everyone seems to have their opinion about how guitarists should sound. Too loud, too soft, more melody, more chords, more baselines, whatever.
I am so fortunate to play with a band -- that's where the guitar really happens, when everyone knows exactly what they want and shares it to the best of their abilities. If I were just a session guitarist, I would get very depressed.
I sit at home with the metronome and practice strumming patterns for hours at all sorts of different speeds. To me it is all right hand -- knowing the melodies, the chords come easy and I don't miss many, but being able to drive the pulse, that's what it's all about. Most guitarists worry too much about the left hand, about playing the right chords. Just play the tonic (damn it), and see if you can make that sound good for a whole time through the piece. Pick up some sort of rocking 5-th chord substitution at the end of the second B part, and drive the tune. That's when you know you're there.
Ok, that's more than enough thoughts...
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Eliot
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Without any sarcasm, and as a guitarist/mandolin player trying to learn fiddle, I would try A. You've got Em, D, G so there has to be an A in there somewhere.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by pearse
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Iris, I'd like to take a pass at your question too (if you don't mind). Backing and playing a melody present different challenges and give different satisfactions.
What melody players often don't realize is that playing a good backing part can be more challenging than playing the melody. It's not just plonking out chords, it's choosing which chords and voicings to play, where to put them, what rhythmic pattern to use, when to play and when not to play, when to use a fill or bassline- and doing all this while listening to someone else play the melody. When you do it right, it supports the melody and makes it sound better- the job of a backer is to make the melody player sound better.
On the other hand, when you get past working out how to finger a melody (no small task), you still have the challenge of playing it with the drive or kick of a fiddle or other melody instrument. An acoustic guitar just haven't the sustain a fiddle has, so it takes a bit of virtuosity and inventiveness to pull it off.
I like 'em both.
And Eliot- yeah, the right hand is the "engine," and the playing tonic (if you mean the root of the chord) is a butt-saver.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Snakefingers
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
And I meant to say an acoustic guitar doesn't have the sustain of a fiddle, and that playing the tonic is a butt-saver.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Snakefingers
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
fap,
If you want to hear someone play the chords to DM, you can download a legal mp3 of tune as performedc by Fox Watson (fiddle) and Laurie Diehl (guitar).
http://www.smithsonianglobalsound.org/searchresults.aspx?sPhrase=fox%20watson&sType='phrase'
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Snakefingers
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Iris. You said:
"I think backing ... is less structured of course than a melody"
Now, I would really take issue with this were it not for the fact that I've heard *your* backing, and it's plenty structured - sounds lovely.
I'm just worried that others, maybe not such great backers as you, will think they have some sort of carte blanche.
Personally, I think backing is really hard to do well, and ought to be as carefully structured as possible if it's not to ruin the music. There are very definite limits too to what you can do.
As I say, your own playing is absolutely lovely, so I'm guessing I've misinterepreted you ...?
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Would the melody players not need to be structured too? Backing is of it's nature " background". If it is'nt, well it is'nt backing! The limits, Benhall 1 are in the head. I was lucky enough to see Moving Hearts in Dublin two nights ago, ... now thats what you call backing, and not a limit in sight!
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Backer
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Are you based in Dublin, Backer? You can show me how it's done later this week, as I'm over there from Thursday for a few days ...
btw, I do think there are 'limits' - maybe wrong word? (I seem to be having trouble expressing myself this morning) - for both backers and melody players. I think I was trying to say that I would have thought that both need to be equally 'structured' in their playing - of course, that could mean that they're both relatively 'unstructured'. I just don't see why one set of musicians is more - or less - constrained than the other.
And I freely admit that this may be down to me not understanding this properly. If that's the case, help me out, someone ...
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Benhall..... maybe using a single word like structure to describe the whole range of stuff that happens in backing was a mistake. Now that you're forcing me to think (and not quite yet caffienated this AM either!) let me try to explain.
Whan i say less structured... the better way to explain is to say you can back the same tune quite a few different ways, where if you do that with melody, you've....congratulations.... either written a new tune or will come up with a whole new setting of it.
I see what you mean... my playing in a sense is structured, but in another it's not. I may lower the volume to a whisper sometimes, just drone softly and let the fiddler or flute, box, whatever, fly out there if they are doing something incredible and I don't think I should be so "heard" right there.... then fade back in and really hit the stressed notes with them. This is never ever planned ahead, as it would generally be in playing melody, a "this note comes now" kind of thing, though of course there is a lot of that or you'd mess up the tune. It's like you can slip some moments in of a different mood or way of playing more than a melody player can, though they can do that too at times, especially the most experienced players.
I don't think I have ever backed the same tune in exactly the same way even if played hundreds of times.It's all about feeling to me. What will make that melody, that player sound best at that moment. It changes all the time with different players. There is of course a major basic structure, otherwise you'd get the chords/notes all wrong, but there is more room for variation within what you are doing.
Also.... sometimes you need to do a "save" for a melody player. Not to say I never mess up too, believe me I do, we all do, but hopefully not at the same time! When I see a melody player floundering a bit, and I have the tune in my head, I will play a bit stronger, and keep on with the tune, maybe toss in a few notes, and they catch it again where it's supposed to be, and the audience rarley notices.... and right.... the melody player gets credit for being perfection! As Eliot says we will never get the credit. I don't really care, I am in love with this music and in love with the instrument, and a set played well is what matters, it's just a beautiful exhilerating moment in time and fleetingly lost when it's done, except for in your memory. And you will get credit in the form of the melody player being glad you are with them if you did it right, and even if they say nothing, though usually they do (not always good, LOL!), if they hire you again, that's a great satisfaction.
Also, Eliot, about it being hard on the ego, of course it is. I realized that long ago, and when I stopped caring and realized it was not all about me, and people were listening to the melody player, it became even more wonderful in a strange way. It was like this door opened up, an epiphany, it IS all about the melody player, and that's OK and how it's supposed to be. From there, if you go through that door and leave the ego behind, I really believe most will become a better backer. You stop devoting a big part of your brain power to "look at me" and can apply it to focusing on the music and overall sound.
I have seen many players who have walked through that door, and become great backers, and others who could not, who wanted to compete with the melody player for most heard, and people ended up hating them, even if they did get all the chords/notes right. People are just not focusing on us, unless we're doing a solo performance, that's the way it is, that's the way it should be, and once people get that and view the melody as the precious thing it is and give it what it wants at the moment, they will understand how to back better. Just my two cents, other ideas may be different. In a sense also, maybe the melody player checks their ego too in order to let the melody fly. The best melody players I have met are those who are totally in love with the tunes in the truest sense and do not think about people saying how great they are. In fact many are extremely shy and modest people.
I also do not think a melody played well needs "driving" as some backers think they need to do, but a lot of weaker melody players are sometimes saved by someone providing a driving rhythm. Also a large group/session with people losing the timing, you might jump in with a steady metronome like drone and try to reel it in, pardon the pun. In an ideal world with an incredible melody player and a great backer though, I think the backer will, rather than "drive" the melody, sort of weavee in and out in a tasteful way. Other times, say people want to dance to the tune, maybe you would be more driving... but mainly I am talking about just playing for listeners.
gone on too long as usual! sorry Ben, I have a way of making a short story too long. It's the writer in me, once it starts......LOL!
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
OK. Thanks, Iris, I think I understand what you meant a bit more now. Not sure I agree with you 100%, though.
In the end, what matters is, as I hope people generally would agree, you have a great attitude to backing AND, even more importantly, your backing is really great.
So, how you get there becomes less relevant, except in so far as it would be good for the rest of the world to pick up on any good advice they might glean ...
Anyway, in answer to the original post, there *is* no missing chord - the less chords the better!
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Wow, what a great thread
Good going all!
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Eliot
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
"There has to be an A in there"...
Fap, What tuning are you using?Try A7'th after the E minor into the D on the second or if your feeling contraversial, the third tims around of Cooleys, and then reap the rewards and kick the melody player in the shin...
Iris.. Good question...but a pretty pointless one too.
There's no answer. The melody challenge is inexplicable only to pure backers (although I know countless virtuoso's on this site will only be happy to divulge from their vaste knowledge)
There are many many better melody players then there are backers, hence the bad name. But, most of my favourite albums have backing ..... double edged sword and all that...
Listen to the tune recorded by someone else and work it out.
As someone else said. Pick the tune and find the right note.
Good luck and enjoy it, and say no to drugs!
S
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Good points Hugo....
I am running out to play,,, I will ask someone to play Cooley's and Drowsy and see what I come up with. I am really bad in final analysis because of being a total ear player, but will try.
Ben... depends who is playing, sometimes less chords are better for sure.... I prefer a mix, where you chord along, then break into some of the melody and fingers all over the place. Then back. What I really don't like is when it sounds all the same all the way through with no little surprises popping in on a whim.
Hugo...not arguing with you but just curious....There are many more melody players period, so one would wonder by averages if it's pretty much the same. Maybe because of fewer backers out there it's more noticeable, what percent of backers are bad? I don't mean style.... I mean very incompetent. Not everyone will like everyone's style, not even in fiddling or among melody players in general. They often knock each other. I know people who hate Kevin Burke and love Tommy Peoples and vice versa, but you can't say either stink. Loaded question. Uh oh...... this sure got off topic.... Fap, will try and figure it out... I am not one to rest on chords, so will try.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
"People who hate Kevin Burke and love Tommy Peoples and vice versa."
I would suggest that those who fall into either of these catagories really are complete ignorant eedjits - I wish I was allowed to swear more convincingly.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
yeah llig,... Tommy/Kevin both great, the style is different so maybe some just don't like a style. Still they respect the one they are not overly fond of .Some have said TP is too staccato, others have said KB too legato. Whatever, have heard it numerous times, as recently again as a month ago... and will pass along that you think they are eedjits next time I see them.
Fap... I got someone to play Cooly's to analyze where my fingers on guitar were going, but left before DM.... have you tried something in the B or B# family, minors or 7ths perhaps, I am not good at the technicalities, but they don't sound major at all. I don't know what you'd do for a chord, but the notes fit there. I don't chord them, I note them on the lowest string, playing dropped D way high up the neck on the 9th & 10th fret, each a note's worth, then back to a D and end back on the Em and there the part of the tune ends. Same for part B. I think that's possibly the part you hear where something should be other than the Em, G, D.
Play with it, see if it works for you. There's a lot more you can toss in as well if you take the time to learn the tune. Try at least flatpicking it out, it will really help in getting the chords right, or to play part melody some of the time too. Try a B minor there for starters, I believe we are talking about the same part. In dropped D it would be three fingers straight down in a row on the 9th fret. Not sure what tuning you are in. I hit on the 10th fret on the sharp, descend a note down to the B, dart back to the D, back home to Em.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I wish we had an Iris Nevins at our sessions. The harmonic
nuances eminating from a real "player" would be so
refreshing
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by hauke
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Some of the people engaging in these celtic sessions ought to join a bridge club or go out bowling that evening and
leave the sessions to people who actually spend their
precious time perfecting their craft.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by hauke
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
hauke...thanks for the kind words...have we crossed paths? I see you are in Harrisburg PA... about 2-3 hours from me. Warning...not all like my style.... I get told at times to flatpick and just do chords, "like everyone else". I like to know the melody and jump in with some notes where it works and play fingerstyle for backing. I have gotten told to play like John Doyle, because my playing is not "Irish Style". Seems it was before the Doyle sound came along, but then I was out of the loop for many years session-wise.True enough it doesn't suit the more hard driving band sound, more low key.
Come to our IAANJ session if you are ever passing through, maybe en route to NYC or something if you ever go. We have a lot of fun there. It came after a long line of bar gigs and sessions, and is a delightful change, in a big hall, kids, babies, old people, young people, dancers, Irish speakers, great food all free. Wish it was more than once a month. We always get a really good guest host out too.
We have (plug, plug) some great house-style concerts coming up too with sessions after. 3/30 we have Maeve Donnelly and Tony McManus, talk about an amazing guitar player, and 6/30 Angelina Carberry and Martin Quinn. We may fill in with another bewtween those too. We've had Jackie Daly, Paddy Keenan, Noel Hill, so far, it's a new series....all super nights. Some of these would be worth your trip.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
hauke... an open session is an open session, you get who you get, and hopefully the spirit of fun and respect prevails. Sometimes it's a dud, other times the best, anywhere, any open session. I have learned not to expect high end music, though it's really great when it happens. If you want that, a session by invite only is in order. Or do it as a gig. Whatever, I am too old a bird to take any of it so seriously, it's just nice to get out and let loose. If it's a dud musically at least you can go socialize with your friends a bit.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I have gotten told to play like John Doyle, because my playing is not "Irish Style".
Neither is his. Ha
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Funny Hugo. Maybe because he *is* Irish and became so well known and so many Doyle wannabes are out there. He is a great player, esp. fun to watch live, but to say anyone who doesn't play like him isn't playing Irish style is silly.
Maybe I should say I play Breton style since that's in my genes. It would make for a good comeback anyway. It's hard to take seriously.
Hey Fap... where are you, did you try that B minor? Just keeping on track here.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
There's no such thing as traditional Irish (or Scottish etc) guitar. Guitar in trad. isn't yet 100 years old (by a fair margin at that), DADGAD was "invented" (certainly popularised) by Davey Graham in the 60s although drop-D has its origins in classical guitar.
I firmly maintain that being a skilled exponent of chord use in traditional music doesn't make you "just like everyone else". Round here, more people can play fingerstyle (in a session unsuitable manner) than a convincing plectrum-style rhythm guitar (although they aren't at the sessions, which perhaps is the point). That said, Doyle's guitar playing isn't quite my cup of tea either.
This disagreement will continue to exist till my computer breaks / gets stolen. Which, in the interests of diversity, is probably a good thing.....
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I ws just thinking... I know lots of really excellent guitar players -fingerstyle and flatpick tune players, that is, but not one who's a really excellent accompanist.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Well, maybe one.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
FIngerstyle can be session suitable, it's not always the folky song accompaniment patterns one is used to hearing. It can be every bit as intense and emotional as a flatpick strummer. Depends who is doing it. Look at Martin Carthy for an example of finger accomanyment, even if with Dave Swarbrick. Tony McManus too when backing.
Bob.... is it thou you speakest of, LOL! the "one"?
This disagreement will persist Andy, I am so getting tired of it, can't believe I broke my vow to stop posting about it! Shall TRY to quit now. Have to get some work done!
WHERE is FAP, who started this thread? I really wonder if that's your missing chord.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Ha! Actually, no, Iris. I'm barely adequate at accompaniment, but I'm a great admirer of people who are really good at it.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
The one I know who's really good at it plays only accompaniment, in one style, on one instrument, in one tuning. He's focused.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Bob....Accompaniment is the joy of my life, my addiction. I hope I do it well! I play tunes on guitar too, but love backing more, though throw in bits of melody here and there. love both melody and backing, but there's something about backing that grabs me, and it is not because it is easier, I find it more challenging.... it's a lifelong study for me, it is an art, and a life isn't long enough, no matter how long, to learn everything. And you have to learn the tunes. I have been telling people that for years. You don't have a shot unless those tunes are learned, and also the general melodic structures of all types of tunes in case you ever need to wing it, and a memory for those that deviate from the norm, and a memory for new tunes so you have them in your head the second time around they are played...or you're just not going to be able to do it right. Maybe therein lies the challenge, keeping the tune in your head while the fingers are doing something else? Don't know, but I feel a really keen edge mentally while backing, you really have to be on the same wavelength as the melody player in an almost telepathic way.
Gee.... I wish fap would come back, after I went and analyzed the tune for the missing chord. I am curious as to whether we're talking about the same part of the tune. Hopefully he/she was not turned off by the guitar thrashing and bashing.
# Posted on February 13th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Irvine,
ye a bit smart of me, but amreally NOT a fan! thought i'd chance it - sorry!
Your descrition of your own playing sounds pretty nice!
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
iris, keep up the comments, you always have something good to contribute to these threads.
Just saw John Doyle the other night with Liz Carrol, and they were awesome. Lots of drive, energy and passion, and incredible technical skills! Although I can see why people chafe at calling some of what they do "traditional."
What I was most impressed with, though, is how confident and energetic John's singing is getting--it is becoming one of the things I look forward to in their concerts!
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Iris, I don't get a lot of opportunities to do backup, and then it's mostly bluegrass, old-time or cajun, but I know what you mean about the near-telepathic thing. Whether you're playing backup guitar or triangle, when you make that mind-meld and hit the sweet spot of the groove, it's magic.
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Hi Al... I saw Doyle last year, I really love his singing, straight from the heart, pure, unaffected. Like him, if you ever met him, really a sweet guy. I know guys don't like to be called "sweet", lol!! I like to listen to him when I get tired of my own playing, like going to a restaurant and ordering something you'd never cook, often because you don't know how, and really enjoy it. I couldn't play like Doyle if my life depended on it, it's just not in me that way. I still like him. Martin Carthy, Tony McManus and John Renbourne I WOULD like to play a little more like, LOL!
I played with Renbourne at a friend's house a year and a half ago, we were just sitting around taking turns playing tunes, just five people then I was MORTIFIED.... he asked me to teach *him* a tune he liked that I played... it was O'Carolan's Welcome. Of course he was playing it better than me in about 10 minutes!! gasp! I made him swear he'd never record it, he'd make my recording of it sound terrible. Just kidding him... of course he can. But it was a scary moment after having him as my idol for 30 years.
Bob... the telepathic thing, I don't get it, sometimes you just go into the next tune in the right key a split second ahead of them. And it can happen with someone you never played with before, and don't know their sets...SPOOKY. Or you both stress a note at the same time out of the blue. I remember one person asking... "How did you know what tune I was going into?" It's great when that happens. Maybe people should be a little scared of us...think twice before guitar bashing!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I guess Fap is not coming back
has anyone else given Cooley's a spin to see if they agree on the missing chord/notes?
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Iris,
Reckon John Renbourn will still know it? Just as I'm getting a guitar lesson from him in about 10 hours (a strange conincidence, but true nontheless, really!), I like the tune and it probably makes a rather nice open-tuned arrangement. Is it the kind of thing that'd suit itself well to a one-off lesson?
Thanks very much,
Andy
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Hey... tell John hello from me. I have had the pleasure of his company numerous times over the years, and he is a real gent and a brilliant genious if a musician.
Let us know how it went and what you learned!
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
typo Queen..... brilliant genious OF a musician.... duh! You know what I meant!
Andy, nice sound clips.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Sorry "Irvine" I meant.....Iris..
although I'd be flattered...
Ps love his singing too and accompaniment of his songs.
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Funny Hugo... I thought it was someone else, named Andy.
I give up, Fap is gone
# Posted on February 15th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I'm still lurking, generally, but I'm definately not trading under the name Hugo; that'd be someone else. I'm also definately not John Renbourn, that would just be silly (and I'm fairly certain it's impossible to suggest I was claiming to be him).....
On a (slightly) more serious note, my lesson was excellent - he'd chosen to do small group sessions as opposed to 1:1s so it turned into a bit of a guitarist's sing/play around after about an hour which was a bit unexpected but nontheless incredibly good fun (and actually very rewarding from a learning point of view in a curiously osmotic kind of way). I hope he'll be back again next year!!
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Glad it went well. Did you get the link I sent you on a private email Andy?
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
I did indeed. It's a really nice arrangement -- I reckon I'll have to have a go at learning it (and Planxty Hewlett) sometime soon.
Thanks,
Andy
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Help with Backing, chord missing
Andy.... it's weird, since Learning O'Carolan's Draught (not on the CD, next one!) I can no longer play Hewlett without flipping into it by accident.
Hewlett is relatively easy for fingerstyle, Draught is not! still I revert to it for some reason.
# Posted on February 16th 2007 by irisnevins