Can anyone tell me of some good resources for learning gaelic? My whole family tree is from the British Isles (I'm at least 3/8 Irish, 1/8 Scottish, and the rest is English), and I've always wanted to learn the language of my ancestors. Also, a lot of ITM has gaelic in it, and it would so wonderful to understand the songs, and to be able to say them right! lol :-p
Hi celtic_lass, if it's Scots Gaelic, then here are the people to speak to. There are some excellent distance learning courses available from the college:
Interestingly enough, if you read John Prebbles' Culloden, or see the dramatised documentary the BBC made from the book, you will see that the crofters, driven out of their glens by their lairds, to fight for Bonnie Prince Charlie, are described as "only speaking irish...".
Well, its definitely a good idea to start by talking to other people who speak the language. There are certainly variations in dialect in different parts of Ireland (where it is still spoken), so getting a foundation from someone who already has a sense of the differences is very helpful. A good resource for leaning simple conversation and terms would be the Buntus Cainte book series. It comes with a CD, and is pretty self-explanatory.
I second the Buntus cainte recomondation. I have just acquired all three books.
I'm a Scot learning Irish in England - mainly with a view to singing , interpreting and understanding a wee bit better. If you can find someone who knows just a bit more than you its a great help. We have very informal lessons based on a little bit conversation and some song. I'm also dabbling on Scots gaelic.
I will send you a message and if nothing else we can encourage each other
I was thaught Gaelic for years in school and couldn't string two sentences together, shame really. It's amazing to think I live in Dublin and can honestly say apart from my irish teacher in school I don't know anyone who can speak Irish.
My dha pingin...(sorry, can't get fada's on this computer)
www.daltai.com is a superb site. I started with them 5 years ago and am still addicted.
Buntus Cainte WITH the tapes is also a very good beginner's resource.
Learning Irish by Micheal O Siadhail is considered to be the best, most complete "teach yourself" resource available. It focuses on the Cois Fhairrage dialect which causes the Munster afficionados a certain amount of chagrin. However, if you can master Learning Irish you will be in great shape to converse fluently.
Don't get caught up in which dialect is better than the other. Just find a resource that works for you and go for it. I've focused on Cois Fhairrage but I can recognize Munster and Ulster in most cases with little to no difficulty.
Also, go to www.tg4.ie They offer archived shows as well as live broadcasts. Most have sub-titles (Ros Na Run is my favorite!!) and I have found them to be very helpful in tuning my ear to the sound of spoken Irish.
BTW.....in the language circles when you say "Gaelic" it is accepted that you mean Scots Gaelic. If you mean Irish Gaelic, then just say Irish. Gaelic is a class of languages while Irish, Scots and Manx are the specific languages in that group.
Irish is a wonderful language that needs all of the speaker it can get! Have fun with it!!!
I'm not sure if "Progress In Irish" is still in publication. If you can get your hands on a copy you'll find it very useful. Great for basic grammar, Irregular verbs etc
I’ve interpolated your implied family tree. If the fractions of your genealogy are right I make it that one of your Great Grand Parents were from Scotland, three Great Grand parents were from Ireland and four Great Grand Parents (and therefore two Grandparents) were from England. Your parents presumably were one from England and the other was Scottish/ Irish hybrid but mainly Irish.
When did they move to America? Which part of England and or Scotland/ Ireland did your parents move from? Did your Grand Parents speak the Gaelic?
You see I live in London. One of my Grand Parents was Scottish. That makes me a quarter Scots I suppose. But I have no inkling to rediscover my roots and learn the Gaelic!
I find the best way of communicating here in South London is by speaking English. I regularly speak to 100% Brazilian, Pakistani, Turkish, Polish, Irish, Greek, Chinese, West African, Caribbean et cetera et cetera people and they all speak and understand English. Learning Gaelic, Latin, Urdu, Tamil, Swahili and so forth would be pointless!
And learning the old ITM has nothing to do with the Irish Language (apart from the tune titles sometimes).
By the way: I was in the USA a couple of years ago and a bloke, on hearing I was a Londoner, said that he was Austrian. I said, “Oh, when did you come to Oregon, you speak English with no accent what-so-ever?” He replied, “Oh no! I mean I have an Austrian name. My Great Grand Parents came a hundred years ago!” I said well you’re not Austrian are you? You’re American”. The same goes for most Americans who hanker after some sort of claim to family roots in an older culture.
For what it's worth, most organisations rarely go back further than the grandparents when assessing someone's ancestry. Presumably this is for administrative purposes.
You can get complex situations arising anyway just by going back no more than two generations; e.g. born and living in Belgium, English mother, Belgian father, grandparents Welsh, Irish, Dutch and Belgian - an almost fictitious example, btw . So which country do you choose to represent in international sport?
Aha, Yhaalhouse! I found exactly the same thing. Americans don't seem to meet foreigners that often, so they've got into the habit of saying "I'm Irish", or "I'm Scottish" when they mean their forebears were. I met one girl who announced "I'm Irish", "I'm Scottish", and "I'm Native American" in disturbingly quick succession... Once you get the hang of it it's not actually offensive, but it still makes my skin crawl...
Seems the girl made it pretty clear that she wanted to "re-connect" with some ancestral roots and learn to understand the words in some of the Trad music.
As a nation of Immigrants we may be a bit more inclined to identify with who we are/were by ancestral nationality. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
So, it's not always bad to "hanker after some sort of claim to family roots in an older culture"....keep on hankerin'!!!
If it weren't for my interest in my Irish ancestry, I wouldn't be studying the language (and the language needs all the speakers it can get) nor would I be playing the fiddle. So,
Trying to follow up your ancestry can lead to funny conclusions; my half-Scots half-Irish grandmother was born in Barbados ( regimental married quarters ), which also makes me technically West Indian, and entitled to be considered to represent the West Indies for any sport in which I am a top performer; draughts maybe, or perhaps Euchre.
I do understand the need for finding a deeper or older sense of belonging, but when you get down to the music, which is what we're all about here, I know plenty of people with no ethnic link at all to ITM, who yet love and enjoy playing it. This "roots" stuff can be a bit of a smokescreen.
Or....rather than a smokescreen, a motivator. I have persisted in my musical endeavours driven as much by my interest in my ancestral culture as by my love of the music.
Yhaalhouse- My parents did not move here from the Bristish Isles. But many of my great grandparents where. My great-grandfather came from Prestinpans, Scotland (please forgive my spelling if I have that wrong!), and was going to come here to America on the Titanic, but they were sold out of tickets. And you all know how that ended! I'm not quite sure, but I think my great-great-grandparents were from Seabury, England. I can't remeber the rest at the moment. The numbers that I have posted are what my family was able to find out (I have an aunt on my dad's side that was able to trace our family back to 1791), so they may not be percise. I've never met my great-grandprents, so I don't know if they spoke gaelic or not.
Ceolgaelach- Thank you!!! That's exactly how I feel. I am very interested in my family history, and I'm proud of my heritage. Just so you know, I'm not into ITM just because it links me to my heritage, but because I genuinely love it!
Back to the subject. I'll check out Amazon for some of those courses you guys mentioned. I'll keep in mind to say Irish, not Gaelic.
One of the great things about the USA is that those who have a great mix of roots can go explore as deeply as they wish. The borderline argumentative "it makes my skin crawl" is a clear indicator of "just not understanding."
Many in the USA are either from somewhere else or have people that came over during the Elis Island part/early mid 20th cent., 1800's or and nowmore rare, the 1700s. If you don't live in the USA, then it will forever be an impossible concept to grasp, that so many call themselves Italian, Irish, dutch or whatever.
Learning to speak gaelic
Learning to speak gaelic
Can anyone tell me of some good resources for learning gaelic? My whole family tree is from the British Isles (I'm at least 3/8 Irish, 1/8 Scottish, and the rest is English), and I've always wanted to learn the language of my ancestors. Also, a lot of ITM has gaelic in it, and it would so wonderful to understand the songs, and to be able to say them right! lol :-p
Sara
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Celtic Lass
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Which? Irish or Scots?
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Hi celtic_lass, if it's Scots Gaelic, then here are the people to speak to. There are some excellent distance learning courses available from the college:
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by On Sabbatical
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Ive always enjoyed this page... http://www.celticgrounds.com/chapters/c-nations.htm
Sort of gives a perspective on "celtic."
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by The Merry Highlander
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Right now, I'm mostly interested in Irish Gaelic. Eventually, I may give Scots Gaelic a try.
Sara
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Celtic Lass
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Try this one, its a good site:
http://www.daltai.com/home.htm
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by tnoumarap
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/irish/blas/learners/beag1/lesson1.shtml
A good start here from the bbc!
Go n-eiri leat!
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by richrua
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
If you learn Irish then you shall find Scot's Gaelic easy to understand (I imagine the reverse is the same!)
Get yourself a pack with CD's for the car, something like 'Turas Teanga' or 'Now your Talking'. Don't be too worried about reading or wirting at the start, just get your ear tuned in and work from there.
http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/simpleSearch.do?simpleSearchString=turas+teanga&searchType=0
If this is working you will find information in those same packs telling you how to progress, find further resources, etc.
Ádh mór leis!
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by proinsiasrua
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Interestingly enough, if you read John Prebbles' Culloden, or see the dramatised documentary the BBC made from the book, you will see that the crofters, driven out of their glens by their lairds, to fight for Bonnie Prince Charlie, are described as "only speaking irish...".
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Well, its definitely a good idea to start by talking to other people who speak the language. There are certainly variations in dialect in different parts of Ireland (where it is still spoken), so getting a foundation from someone who already has a sense of the differences is very helpful. A good resource for leaning simple conversation and terms would be the Buntus Cainte book series. It comes with a CD, and is pretty self-explanatory.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by IrishElf
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
I second the Buntus cainte recomondation. I have just acquired all three books.
I'm a Scot learning Irish in England - mainly with a view to singing , interpreting and understanding a wee bit better. If you can find someone who knows just a bit more than you its a great help. We have very informal lessons based on a little bit conversation and some song. I'm also dabbling on Scots gaelic.
I will send you a message and if nothing else we can encourage each other
Julie
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by jfother
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
I was thaught Gaelic for years in school and couldn't string two sentences together, shame really. It's amazing to think I live in Dublin and can honestly say apart from my irish teacher in school I don't know anyone who can speak Irish.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by fap
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Buntus Cainte is really good. We used it at home and it's very clear and sensibly structured. I add my recommendation to those above.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
My dha pingin...(sorry, can't get fada's on this computer)
www.daltai.com is a superb site. I started with them 5 years ago and am still addicted.
Buntus Cainte WITH the tapes is also a very good beginner's resource.
Learning Irish by Micheal O Siadhail is considered to be the best, most complete "teach yourself" resource available. It focuses on the Cois Fhairrage dialect which causes the Munster afficionados a certain amount of chagrin. However, if you can master Learning Irish you will be in great shape to converse fluently.
Don't get caught up in which dialect is better than the other. Just find a resource that works for you and go for it. I've focused on Cois Fhairrage but I can recognize Munster and Ulster in most cases with little to no difficulty.
Also, go to www.tg4.ie They offer archived shows as well as live broadcasts. Most have sub-titles (Ros Na Run is my favorite!!) and I have found them to be very helpful in tuning my ear to the sound of spoken Irish.
BTW.....in the language circles when you say "Gaelic" it is accepted that you mean Scots Gaelic. If you mean Irish Gaelic, then just say Irish. Gaelic is a class of languages while Irish, Scots and Manx are the specific languages in that group.
Irish is a wonderful language that needs all of the speaker it can get! Have fun with it!!!
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by ceolgaelach
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
I'm not sure if "Progress In Irish" is still in publication. If you can get your hands on a copy you'll find it very useful. Great for basic grammar, Irregular verbs etc
Adh mor ort
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Strathfoyle
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Celtic Lass,
I’ve interpolated your implied family tree. If the fractions of your genealogy are right I make it that one of your Great Grand Parents were from Scotland, three Great Grand parents were from Ireland and four Great Grand Parents (and therefore two Grandparents) were from England. Your parents presumably were one from England and the other was Scottish/ Irish hybrid but mainly Irish.
When did they move to America? Which part of England and or Scotland/ Ireland did your parents move from? Did your Grand Parents speak the Gaelic?
You see I live in London. One of my Grand Parents was Scottish. That makes me a quarter Scots I suppose. But I have no inkling to rediscover my roots and learn the Gaelic!
I find the best way of communicating here in South London is by speaking English. I regularly speak to 100% Brazilian, Pakistani, Turkish, Polish, Irish, Greek, Chinese, West African, Caribbean et cetera et cetera people and they all speak and understand English. Learning Gaelic, Latin, Urdu, Tamil, Swahili and so forth would be pointless!
And learning the old ITM has nothing to do with the Irish Language (apart from the tune titles sometimes).
By the way: I was in the USA a couple of years ago and a bloke, on hearing I was a Londoner, said that he was Austrian. I said, “Oh, when did you come to Oregon, you speak English with no accent what-so-ever?” He replied, “Oh no! I mean I have an Austrian name. My Great Grand Parents came a hundred years ago!” I said well you’re not Austrian are you? You’re American”. The same goes for most Americans who hanker after some sort of claim to family roots in an older culture.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
For what it's worth, most organisations rarely go back further than the grandparents when assessing someone's ancestry. Presumably this is for administrative purposes.
. So which country do you choose to represent in international sport?
You can get complex situations arising anyway just by going back no more than two generations; e.g. born and living in Belgium, English mother, Belgian father, grandparents Welsh, Irish, Dutch and Belgian - an almost fictitious example, btw
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Aha, Yhaalhouse! I found exactly the same thing. Americans don't seem to meet foreigners that often, so they've got into the habit of saying "I'm Irish", or "I'm Scottish" when they mean their forebears were. I met one girl who announced "I'm Irish", "I'm Scottish", and "I'm Native American" in disturbingly quick succession... Once you get the hang of it it's not actually offensive, but it still makes my skin crawl...
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Innocent Bystander
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Hmmm....
Seems the girl made it pretty clear that she wanted to "re-connect" with some ancestral roots and learn to understand the words in some of the Trad music.
As a nation of Immigrants we may be a bit more inclined to identify with who we are/were by ancestral nationality. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
So, it's not always bad to "hanker after some sort of claim to family roots in an older culture"....keep on hankerin'!!!
If it weren't for my interest in my Irish ancestry, I wouldn't be studying the language (and the language needs all the speakers it can get) nor would I be playing the fiddle. So,
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by ceolgaelach
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Trying to follow up your ancestry can lead to funny conclusions; my half-Scots half-Irish grandmother was born in Barbados ( regimental married quarters ), which also makes me technically West Indian, and entitled to be considered to represent the West Indies for any sport in which I am a top performer; draughts maybe, or perhaps Euchre.
I do understand the need for finding a deeper or older sense of belonging, but when you get down to the music, which is what we're all about here, I know plenty of people with no ethnic link at all to ITM, who yet love and enjoy playing it. This "roots" stuff can be a bit of a smokescreen.
# Posted on February 7th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Or....rather than a smokescreen, a motivator. I have persisted in my musical endeavours driven as much by my interest in my ancestral culture as by my love of the music.
In otherwords, whatever floats your boat!!
# Posted on February 7th 2007 by ceolgaelach
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Yhaalhouse- My parents did not move here from the Bristish Isles. But many of my great grandparents where. My great-grandfather came from Prestinpans, Scotland (please forgive my spelling if I have that wrong!), and was going to come here to America on the Titanic, but they were sold out of tickets. And you all know how that ended! I'm not quite sure, but I think my great-great-grandparents were from Seabury, England. I can't remeber the rest at the moment. The numbers that I have posted are what my family was able to find out (I have an aunt on my dad's side that was able to trace our family back to 1791), so they may not be percise. I've never met my great-grandprents, so I don't know if they spoke gaelic or not.
Ceolgaelach- Thank you!!! That's exactly how I feel. I am very interested in my family history, and I'm proud of my heritage. Just so you know, I'm not into ITM just because it links me to my heritage, but because I genuinely love it!
Back to the subject. I'll check out Amazon for some of those courses you guys mentioned. I'll keep in mind to say Irish, not Gaelic.
Sara
# Posted on February 7th 2007 by Celtic Lass
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
Almost ficticious.My daughters are half Flemish,one quarter Scottish and one quarter Welsh,with Scottish,Welsh and Fresian antecedents.
# Posted on February 8th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Learning to speak gaelic
One of the great things about the USA is that those who have a great mix of roots can go explore as deeply as they wish. The borderline argumentative "it makes my skin crawl" is a clear indicator of "just not understanding."
Many in the USA are either from somewhere else or have people that came over during the Elis Island part/early mid 20th cent., 1800's or and nowmore rare, the 1700s. If you don't live in the USA, then it will forever be an impossible concept to grasp, that so many call themselves Italian, Irish, dutch or whatever.
May your skin continue its ramble...
# Posted on February 8th 2007 by Daddy Kaine