In England, Scotland and Wales I see some sessions listed play the respective traditions of those nations. I imagine the same might exist for some other countries/nations/regions, eg IOM, Northumbria, USA, Britanny, Galicia/Asturias, Shetland, Australia and so on.
Are these variations always indicated?
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Don't mind llig Lad, you'll notice he doesn't start many threads himself, that's cause he's too busy "giggling away" other folks! - or sparring with Bliss!
If your talking geographically Lad, then I play in 3 sessions a week, up here & as these are all in North Antrim, they are therefore sessions in Ireland, although Unionists might have a slightly different slant on that!
If your talking 'musical content' then two are still Irish because 90% + would be Irish tunes. The third would be harder to define as 50% of the songs would be Irish & the rest Scottish or Folk. 50% of the tunes would be Northumbrian & the rest would be made up of Scottish & Irish - so take your pick.
At the end of the day though, they are all Traditional Music Sessions, surely that's the important factor, not how much Irish music is played.
N.B. I class myself as a Traditional Music enthusiast who enjoys playing Irish plus some Scottish, Breton, French, Northumbrian & Old Time music and listening to a wide variety of traditional music, so when I travel I'm happy to drop in to any Trad session, regardless of how it might be 'listed' here.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Stop shakin' Key, I'm going to be on topic... In the Lancashire area of listings there are sessions given that are 'Euro', 'English', 'Irish', 'questionable' and 'mixed'...
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
"'Euro', 'English', 'Irish', 'questionable' and 'mixed'" - tell me ceolachan, do these terms relate to the nationality of the tunes played ........ or the musicians? If the musicians, then the 'questionable' one should be interesting!
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Sadly, that's not one of mine Ceol, it's in Co Down & is a Bluegrass/Old Time session which I only get to, once in a blue moon! ................... stops to look out window
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Both "my" sessions ( I'm only really a convenor ) are nominally Irish; but we could have Scottish, English, American, reggae, blues, pop songs, music-hall numbers. It all depends who turns up. Never have thrown out a musician that tried to stretch the envelope.........yet !
Does the actual nationality/ethnic background of the participants count ? Then we'ld all be mixed.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Cheers guys, don't worry, Llig the ligger doesn't fase me. Yes, I'm asking about musical content.
BTW, it doesn't matter really to me either - I'd describe myself also as a traditional music enthusiast.
I'm just thinking it might be helpful to know in advance where a particular sessions' repertoire may come from.
Some sessions I know in London and Suffolk are very English, tunewise, and this is in effect a given -- in fact some of the Suffolk ones really just specialise in East Anglian music! - of which I know next to zilcho! - as lovely as it is.
I'm just suggesting if people want to write a few words to that effect somewhere on the comments for that session.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Maybe Jeremy could incorporate a checklist or something. I also had noticed how content was often not specified. There is a session in Cumbria that is focused on Cumbrian music, and there are sessions in Wales that are "Welsh Only"... I used to attend a session that banned 'Irish' music, along with 'English' and 'Scottish' and anything else from hereabouts ~ and yet it was billed as a 'Euro Session'...minus these isles...
In a few cases I've also heard that some things weren't technically 'sessions', but were performances. I remember stumbling across a comment to that effect, I think on this site, where someone had showed up hoping to join in and ended up leaving disappointed when they found out it 'wasn't that sort of session'... Sometimes a great deal of effort is involved in getting to some of these venues, especially if you are 'new', a beginner, or have to travel a long ways...
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
i've had that happen when trying to go to a session in a city i was visiting... not so fun. i think the checklist might be a good idea... looking for a session in an unfamiliar city can be tricky and if you've invested a lot of time in finding a place, it's really not fun to be let down. it'd also be awesome if every listing tried to incorporate an approxamate time that the session would begin.... for example i had no idea that some sessions started around midnight, so i was in for a surprise when visiting new york!
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Well, Gretchen, that could save on hotel bills if visiting NYC. Just stay all night at the sesh!
Ceol, I wouldn't want to put upon Jeremy any more, by asking him to refine the session listings tab this way or that way. Surely it should be incumbent on the person who posted to just add a few words, if they haven't already done so, as Ptarmy seems to suggest. Anyway, that's not really what I was asking, but feel free to pursue that direction. I was just wondering more are there many eg USAian or Canadian or South African or wherever sessions listed here which also play their indigenous music as well as or as opposed to Irish.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Ptarm, it looks more to me like ceol was talking about a "closed session" and not a "performance session." (whatever that is) I think whether or not it's a "performance session" depends on who's defining it; whereas you can't be mistaken about what a "closed session" is. I have come across closed sessions before that I wish I had been informed about in advance before I bothered traveling to.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
On the Mac (OSX 10.3.9) with Firefox, if you hold the cursor over the date on which the session was submitted, you get a little pop-up window with the 50 day moving average of the arctangent (in radians) of the percentage of Irish tunes played in that session. Great work, Jeremy!
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Aye Button, sorry but I'm just uncomfortable about any session being branded as a performance or as closed.
The name session, to me, conjures up this idea of a warm, friendly environment where all musicians are welcome, beginner or experienced & almost anything goes, musically. So, for me, if other musicians are not welcome, then it should be called something else - let's face it, it must be a gig, musn't it?
Either way, I think these 'performances' & certainly 'closed sessions' just give real sessions a bad name & so should be deleted from the session guide here!
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
'On the Mac (OSX 10.3.9) with Firefox, if you hold the cursor over the date on which the session was submitted, you get a little pop-up window with the 50 day moving average of the arctangent (in radians) of the percentage of Irish tunes played in that session. Great work, Jeremy!'
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
I have no idea how many "closed sessions" exist. I can only think of two locally that fits that definition. One of them is limited to the same people every time (once a month) but they don't call it a session. When they describe it they say they're getting together and playing tunes together. They don't rehearse anywhere else before they come, and they do it in a public place -- so in that sense it's a session, but the difference is that you can't expect to, and most likely won't be, invited to play if you show up with an instrument. The other one calls what they're doing a "session" and has a variety of participants, but they say it's by invitation only. Some of you might say it’s not a session if it’s “closed,” but I don’t remember hearing anything about such an event being a session is contingent on whether it’s “open” or “closed.” Those are just distinctions; a session is whatever the people who start it want it to be. I would never dream of showing up at someone else’s session and telling them they’re doing it wrong.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
There's "closed sessions" and "closed sessions", of course. It's often an easy "cop out" to discourage various belters, newbies, odd balls, etc or just to keep it within a select few friends.
So, there might only be room for half a dozen people at the table but when a "known" or "respected" musician arrives, a free space mysteriously appears.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong but, in most cases, it's usually fairly obviously whether or not an exclusive arrangement exists. Common sense dictates that you just don't "jump in" without an invitation. Or it should!
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Well... there seems to be plenty of people out there who think it's a basic human right to be able to join any session regardless of their abilities or lack there of, and if anyone doesn't like it -- their a snob.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
This notion of a 'closed session' is all very well but surely, to save people travelling long distances at great inconvenience & then arriving at one of these performance type closed sessions, only to get the cold shoulder, they should be posted as such here .......... or not posted here, at all.
If they are posted as an event, people can then decide if they want to go & watch & listen passively to a performance session or look elsewhere for a good 'old fashioned' open session where they will be welcome to actually join in.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
I agree that if a session is "closed" they should make it known to folks that might be traveling any distance to get there for a tune. The only "closed" session I ever encountered personally was in Galway in 1990, but I could easily go just down the road to find a tune, so it was no bother.
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Sounds a bit of a Performance, turning up at a closed session.........
But 2 types of "closed" sessions spring to mind:
1. This actually IS a performance. A miked-up band, but just playing their own sets, like what Marcus Hernon, Tommy Keane et al used to do at the Good Mixer in Camden Town.
2. A bunch of players who play for themselves but who may want to specialise in eg Donegal or Siabh Luchra tunes, but as they couldn't be bothered with having to go through the niceties of session etiquette, they don't publicise it, here or anywhere.
Anyway, anyone remember the original question? How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish? (not that I'm bothered really.)
How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
In England, Scotland and Wales I see some sessions listed play the respective traditions of those nations. I imagine the same might exist for some other countries/nations/regions, eg IOM, Northumbria, USA, Britanny, Galicia/Asturias, Shetland, Australia and so on.
Are these variations always indicated?
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Ha ha ho hoo tee he ... you'll have to define "Irish" first. good luck mate.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Wot you on tonight michael?
That's 2 threads I've caught you giggling away.
Anyway, it's more like the other traditions tend to define THEM selves, as opposed to being Irish sessions.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
It's the nitrous oxide...
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Don't mind llig Lad, you'll notice he doesn't start many threads himself, that's cause he's too busy "giggling away" other folks! - or sparring with Bliss!
If your talking geographically Lad, then I play in 3 sessions a week, up here & as these are all in North Antrim, they are therefore sessions in Ireland, although Unionists might have a slightly different slant on that!
If your talking 'musical content' then two are still Irish because 90% + would be Irish tunes. The third would be harder to define as 50% of the songs would be Irish & the rest Scottish or Folk. 50% of the tunes would be Northumbrian & the rest would be made up of Scottish & Irish - so take your pick.
At the end of the day though, they are all Traditional Music Sessions, surely that's the important factor, not how much Irish music is played.
N.B. I class myself as a Traditional Music enthusiast who enjoys playing Irish plus some Scottish, Breton, French, Northumbrian & Old Time music and listening to a wide variety of traditional music, so when I travel I'm happy to drop in to any Trad session, regardless of how it might be 'listed' here.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Stop shakin' Key, I'm going to be on topic... In the Lancashire area of listings there are sessions given that are 'Euro', 'English', 'Irish', 'questionable' and 'mixed'...
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Ptarm, you're forgetting to mention that old time session...
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
"'Euro', 'English', 'Irish', 'questionable' and 'mixed'" - tell me ceolachan, do these terms relate to the nationality of the tunes played ........ or the musicians? If the musicians, then the 'questionable' one should be interesting!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Sadly, that's not one of mine Ceol, it's in Co Down & is a Bluegrass/Old Time session which I only get to, once in a blue moon! ................... stops to look out window
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Both "my" sessions ( I'm only really a convenor ) are nominally Irish; but we could have Scottish, English, American, reggae, blues, pop songs, music-hall numbers. It all depends who turns up. Never have thrown out a musician that tried to stretch the envelope.........yet !
Does the actual nationality/ethnic background of the participants count ? Then we'ld all be mixed.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Cheers guys, don't worry, Llig the ligger doesn't fase me. Yes, I'm asking about musical content.
BTW, it doesn't matter really to me either - I'd describe myself also as a traditional music enthusiast.
I'm just thinking it might be helpful to know in advance where a particular sessions' repertoire may come from.
Some sessions I know in London and Suffolk are very English, tunewise, and this is in effect a given -- in fact some of the Suffolk ones really just specialise in East Anglian music! - of which I know next to zilcho! - as lovely as it is.
I'm just suggesting if people want to write a few words to that effect somewhere on the comments for that session.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
I see what you mean Lad. I just checked out the last ten sessions to be posted here & I can't believe how little most folks have posted.
After going to all the trouble to actually post the darn thing, you'd think the least they could do would be to give some details of content - Duh!
OK - so how do we punish them?
Och let's give them all 24 hours to wise up & post some interesting details - meanwhile, I'll sharpen the Axe!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Maybe Jeremy could incorporate a checklist or something. I also had noticed how content was often not specified. There is a session in Cumbria that is focused on Cumbrian music, and there are sessions in Wales that are "Welsh Only"... I used to attend a session that banned 'Irish' music, along with 'English' and 'Scottish' and anything else from hereabouts ~ and yet it was billed as a 'Euro Session'...minus these isles...
In a few cases I've also heard that some things weren't technically 'sessions', but were performances. I remember stumbling across a comment to that effect, I think on this site, where someone had showed up hoping to join in and ended up leaving disappointed when they found out it 'wasn't that sort of session'... Sometimes a great deal of effort is involved in getting to some of these venues, especially if you are 'new', a beginner, or have to travel a long ways...
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Surely a 'performance' session should only be listed in the 'Events' section here, as performances are not sessions, are they?
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
i've had that happen when trying to go to a session in a city i was visiting... not so fun. i think the checklist might be a good idea... looking for a session in an unfamiliar city can be tricky and if you've invested a lot of time in finding a place, it's really not fun to be let down. it'd also be awesome if every listing tried to incorporate an approxamate time that the session would begin.... for example i had no idea that some sessions started around midnight, so i was in for a surprise when visiting new york!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by gretchen
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Well, Gretchen, that could save on hotel bills if visiting NYC. Just stay all night at the sesh!
Ceol, I wouldn't want to put upon Jeremy any more, by asking him to refine the session listings tab this way or that way. Surely it should be incumbent on the person who posted to just add a few words, if they haven't already done so, as Ptarmy seems to suggest. Anyway, that's not really what I was asking, but feel free to pursue that direction. I was just wondering more are there many eg USAian or Canadian or South African or wherever sessions listed here which also play their indigenous music as well as or as opposed to Irish.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Ptarm, it looks more to me like ceol was talking about a "closed session" and not a "performance session." (whatever that is) I think whether or not it's a "performance session" depends on who's defining it; whereas you can't be mistaken about what a "closed session" is. I have come across closed sessions before that I wish I had been informed about in advance before I bothered traveling to.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
was that listed here, pb?
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
On the Mac (OSX 10.3.9) with Firefox, if you hold the cursor over the date on which the session was submitted, you get a little pop-up window with the 50 day moving average of the arctangent (in radians) of the percentage of Irish tunes played in that session. Great work, Jeremy!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by GaryAMartin
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Aye Button, sorry but I'm just uncomfortable about any session being branded as a performance or as closed.
The name session, to me, conjures up this idea of a warm, friendly environment where all musicians are welcome, beginner or experienced & almost anything goes, musically. So, for me, if other musicians are not welcome, then it should be called something else - let's face it, it must be a gig, musn't it?
Either way, I think these 'performances' & certainly 'closed sessions' just give real sessions a bad name & so should be deleted from the session guide here!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
"Maybe Jeremy could incorporate a checklist ....." Yes, ideally one of those where each box HAS to be completed, or you can't move on & post it!
If you are keen enough to promote your session, surely another two minutes isn't going to hurt!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
'On the Mac (OSX 10.3.9) with Firefox, if you hold the cursor over the date on which the session was submitted, you get a little pop-up window with the 50 day moving average of the arctangent (in radians) of the percentage of Irish tunes played in that session. Great work, Jeremy!'
Huh? Not on mine :(
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by tumeltyni
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Well that's one you got Gary A !
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by duffgen
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
I have no idea how many "closed sessions" exist. I can only think of two locally that fits that definition. One of them is limited to the same people every time (once a month) but they don't call it a session. When they describe it they say they're getting together and playing tunes together. They don't rehearse anywhere else before they come, and they do it in a public place -- so in that sense it's a session, but the difference is that you can't expect to, and most likely won't be, invited to play if you show up with an instrument. The other one calls what they're doing a "session" and has a variety of participants, but they say it's by invitation only. Some of you might say it’s not a session if it’s “closed,” but I don’t remember hearing anything about such an event being a session is contingent on whether it’s “open” or “closed.” Those are just distinctions; a session is whatever the people who start it want it to be. I would never dream of showing up at someone else’s session and telling them they’re doing it wrong.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
There's "closed sessions" and "closed sessions", of course. It's often an easy "cop out" to discourage various belters, newbies, odd balls, etc or just to keep it within a select few friends.
So, there might only be room for half a dozen people at the table but when a "known" or "respected" musician arrives, a free space mysteriously appears.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong but, in most cases, it's usually fairly obviously whether or not an exclusive arrangement exists. Common sense dictates that you just don't "jump in" without an invitation. Or it should!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Well... there seems to be plenty of people out there who think it's a basic human right to be able to join any session regardless of their abilities or lack there of, and if anyone doesn't like it -- their a snob.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
The sessions listed for the state of Rhode Island in the USA are all pretty much open sessions that include 80-90% Irish tune and songs.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
This notion of a 'closed session' is all very well but surely, to save people travelling long distances at great inconvenience & then arriving at one of these performance type closed sessions, only to get the cold shoulder, they should be posted as such here .......... or not posted here, at all.
If they are posted as an event, people can then decide if they want to go & watch & listen passively to a performance session or look elsewhere for a good 'old fashioned' open session where they will be welcome to actually join in.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
I agree that if a session is "closed" they should make it known to folks that might be traveling any distance to get there for a tune. The only "closed" session I ever encountered personally was in Galway in 1990, but I could easily go just down the road to find a tune, so it was no bother.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Sounds a bit of a Performance, turning up at a closed session.........
But 2 types of "closed" sessions spring to mind:
1. This actually IS a performance. A miked-up band, but just playing their own sets, like what Marcus Hernon, Tommy Keane et al used to do at the Good Mixer in Camden Town.
2. A bunch of players who play for themselves but who may want to specialise in eg Donegal or Siabh Luchra tunes, but as they couldn't be bothered with having to go through the niceties of session etiquette, they don't publicise it, here or anywhere.
Anyway, anyone remember the original question? How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish? (not that I'm bothered really.)
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Sorry, *Sliabh* Luchra (I think.)
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Alf Tupper
Re: How Many Sessions Listed Here Are Actually Irish?
Danny writes: "Sounds a bit of a Performance, turning up at a closed session........."
When I turned up at that closed session I didn't feel like I was performing.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Phantom Button