Ths is to all the fiddlers: Are any of you left-handed and play right-handed like me? Have you got any advice concerning the bowing technique?
I have been playing the fiddle for over 2,5 years now and get along quite well, but I still tend to move the whole arm while bowing instead of moving the underarm and wrist. Do you know, how I could stop this? Does praticising with a book under the right arm help?
I thought about it at the beginnig, but most pople told me to play right-handed. Moreover, I learned to play the classical guitar right-handed and so it didn't feel wrong to do the same with the fiddle.
Aly Bain told me once that leaning the bowing arm against a cupboard was favoured in Shetland to encourage wrist and lower arm action. He added that it tended to knock hell out of the cupboard though
I am left-handed and have been playing right-handed for 13 years now. At first I persevered because I couldn't get a left handed fiddle (you need to move the base bar to the other side if you are going to string it left-handed permanently) but after I had been playing about 2 years my son altered a fiddle for me. I tried starting again left-handed but I had got too far, I didn't want to go back to the beginning and miss out on sessions etc! Even so, it was a long time before I felt really comfortable right handed - I had great difficulty with bowing "patterns" etc at first (still have to some extent!). I have tried the Shetland "bowing against the wall" idea and found it quite helpful but I think I progressed best when I didn't worry so much about the bowing techniques but concentrated instead on trying to produce the sound of the players I admired, by whatever means I could. Going out fiddling several nights a week for 13 years, plus festivals and visits to Ireland, has helped as well!
Hi Lynn! I think we met in Ennis at the Tradfestival ! I didn't know that you are left-handed as well.
I've never felt uncomfortable right-handed, but I met a lot of (right-handed) people who told me that I should. I think you are absolutely right: I should concentrate trying to "follow" my favorite players instead of thinking too much about how my playing looks. Nevertheless, I just tried the "bowing against the wall" and I think I will add it to my practising routine.
Thanks and hope to see you in Ireland again!
I'm left handed and have always played fiddle right handed, I started at the age of ten with classical violin and I don't remember finding right handed bowing a problem, my mother was also left handed and played the violin right handed, as do most other left handed fiddlers that I know. To help get the right wrist flexible there are various exercises that might be useful;-
.Hold a pencil in your right hand, with your forearm horizontal, and the pencil vertical. Now try to move the pencil up and down, keeping the pencil vertical ,most importantly not allowing it to move in an arc, moving only your hand, fingers and wrist, and keeping your arm absolutely still.(It's more difficult than you'd think, and it can help to keep your forearm still by holding it with the other hand.
2.This time with your violin, try to keep your right arm still(can help if you get someone else to hold on to it!) and try to bow any open string using only wrist, hand and finger movement, you will get a horrible little scratchy sound with this at first, but it gives the correct wrist movement and eventually your tone will improve and that wrist movement will still be there when you are playing tunes
Lots of southpaws play the violin/fiddle, and they almost always play the same way as everyone else. My mother was a left-handed violinist, and she always said it seemed natural and she actually thought she had an advantage over right-handers.
I don't think that altering a fiddle to play with the bow in the left hand is a good idea. It isn't necessary, and it would create problems when trying to play with other fiddlers; consider what would happen if another fiddler was on your right.
I think this is a general problem and not restricted to left-handed fiddlers.
These things might also be helpful:
- When you move your whole arm, you usually also don't move the bow perpendicular to the strings but perform some kind of circular movement. There are guides available that you can put over your strings that allow only a straight bow movement. This way, you are forced to use more of your wrist in order to avoid hitting these metal guides constantly. Sorry, can't remember under what name they are sold, but maybe a music store can help you there.
- For an exercise, try bowing everything in one bow, in particular across different strings, while keeping your arm steady, just by moving your wrist. E.g. this pattern DAEA FAGA FAEA D. This forces you to turn your wrist and the bow in and out. Vary the rhythm of the patterns, dot the notes, or play Scottish snaps (Strathspey), slur the notes in twos, threes, fourths, etc. Start slowly and control your movements consciously. Play as relaxed and with as little pressure on the bow as possible. Make sure the rhtyhms are very precise. Increase the speed gradually. A metronome might come in handy here. These exercises can only be played correctly with a relaxed and flexible wrist. Your movements also become more economical, since often a little tilt of the wrist is all that is necessary, which in the long run allows you to play faster without losing control.
You can expand the pattern across three strings:
DdEd FdGd AdBd cdBd etc.
DdAd EdAd FdGd etc.
Since many tunes incorporate these and similar patterns, you can also practice this on actual tunes. Much more fun this way.
Exercises like the above also helped me tremendously in improving my bow control, which IMO is the key to good fiddle playing.
We had that Finbar Dwyer in the pub again the other night and he picked up somebody's right-handed fiddle, but played it left handed - i.e. upside down. Now there's class.
I heared about a fiddle player who can play right and left handed and changes while he plays. Maybe In should copy him, change my cheap Chinese fiddle in a left-handed fiddle and play on both sides .
Nevertheless, thanks for the suggestions. You guys are really great!
JerryH - have you ever seen the Cape Breton fiddler, Kinnon Beaton - that's how he plays. It's amazing to watch - he holds the fiddle vertically - by that I mean at around 90 degrees from "normal" orientation, and as a consequence, his bow ends up almost upside down to play the E string. Great player too!
I find that as well as being incredibly cack-handed at bowing, I also bow back to front to everyone else. i.e. I bow up instead of down and vice versa, just feels more natural to me... I also tend to accent up bows rather than downs. I don't think it matters too much, I'm not planning on joining an orchestra anytime soon....
Freddy Frog, you'd probably find a baroque orchestra congenial! Especially if you use a baroque bow. I often find it more effective to place an accent with an up bow rather than with a down.
I've never understood why a left-handed raw beginner on the fiddle would want to play left-handed. When you're starting on the instrument you've a lot of brand new lot of neuro-muscular control to learn and develop, as well as muscle and joint development, all of which takes a long time to acquire, and it shouldn't matter if a left hander is taught to bow with the right hand. For convenience, I suppose, all fiddles are designed and made with right-hand bowing in mind. Is there a neuro scientist here who can explain this logically?
Left handed woodwind instruments have been built since the Renaissance. Oboes for instance used to have three keys, and the bottom one had two touches, depending on whether the player was left or right handed. I believe it was to humour gentleman musicians who were particular about these sorts of things. Or perhaps they took to trouble to suss out which handedness a musician was most apt at.
JW Day was one of the oldest fiddlers to make records - a blind Old Time player - he also played normal fiddles left-handed, without restringing. The Jimi Hendrix approach. Actually I think Jimi did restring his guitars though. Finbarr if I remember correctly just didn't have anyone around to show him how it was done.
At first glance, fiddles may look symetrical, but they're not. It's not as simple as moving the soundpost and re-stringing with a new nut and bridge. The bass side is a tiny bit larger and the actual wood carving is thicker. You could get a maker to make you a true left handed fiddle, but it would be extra because he'd have to make new patterns and templates. I have seen true left handed fiddles, but never an old one.
I'm a left-handed fiddler and I've been torturing the instrument and all auditory senses for the past few years. As a lefty in a definitely "right" dominated world (no political jokes, please) I've managed to adapt to most things that are "right handed" ie; the fiddle, golf clubs, scissors (yes....there are left-handed scissors!). For me, the fiddle presented three options:
1) Play right handed and work on training my right wrist, forearm etc.
2) Play left handed on a right handed fiddle and "reverse" everything and then train 4 fingers on my right hand to move with the dexterity that their left sided counterparts do naturally.
3) Play left-handed on a left-handed fiddle and spend the remainder of my life having fiddles custom made....
To me it was a "no brainer", adaptation being the hallmark of human evolution and all.....
Trevor, I've always been curoius about that myself. Maybe there's some neuro-reason for the convention - something involving arm movement vs finger movement. Maybe it works better when the dominant side does the arm movement. Or maybe there's no good reason for it.
I had just a few left-handed (fingerstyle) guitar students and only one of them decided to play a right-handed instrument. He did quite well and I didn't detect any particular deficiency in his right-hand work.
another lefty -- thought this bow was fighting with me cause I was too dum to learn. now I can blame it on my uncoordinated right arm. I do play (pick) bass backwards. not strung left handed but backwards with the g string closest to me but when I bow it I have to turn it the other (correct) way. how stupid is that.
I am left handed and have always played right handed, I do have to think hard about rhythms and bowing from time to time with new tunes as I usually end up getting confused which then translates into total chaos.
I'm of the school that the fiddle should always be played the same way no matter which is the dominant hand. Also, some of the best players seem to me to be left handed, but playing violin left, bow right. It uses each side of the brain equally... and it's always better to be lighter on the bow side.
(I play left handed) with a (left handed fiddle) built from the ground up for a lefty. are thier any disadvantages or advantages playing lefty with a fiddle built for a lefty?
left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Ths is to all the fiddlers: Are any of you left-handed and play right-handed like me? Have you got any advice concerning the bowing technique?
I have been playing the fiddle for over 2,5 years now and get along quite well, but I still tend to move the whole arm while bowing instead of moving the underarm and wrist. Do you know, how I could stop this? Does praticising with a book under the right arm help?
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by fiddlinsue
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Would it be easier to just play left handed?
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by irishfiddler32
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I thought about it at the beginnig, but most pople told me to play right-handed. Moreover, I learned to play the classical guitar right-handed and so it didn't feel wrong to do the same with the fiddle.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by fiddlinsue
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Aly Bain told me once that leaning the bowing arm against a cupboard was favoured in Shetland to encourage wrist and lower arm action. He added that it tended to knock hell out of the cupboard though
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by duffgen
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I am left-handed and have been playing right-handed for 13 years now. At first I persevered because I couldn't get a left handed fiddle (you need to move the base bar to the other side if you are going to string it left-handed permanently) but after I had been playing about 2 years my son altered a fiddle for me. I tried starting again left-handed but I had got too far, I didn't want to go back to the beginning and miss out on sessions etc! Even so, it was a long time before I felt really comfortable right handed - I had great difficulty with bowing "patterns" etc at first (still have to some extent!). I have tried the Shetland "bowing against the wall" idea and found it quite helpful but I think I progressed best when I didn't worry so much about the bowing techniques but concentrated instead on trying to produce the sound of the players I admired, by whatever means I could. Going out fiddling several nights a week for 13 years, plus festivals and visits to Ireland, has helped as well!
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by Lynn W
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Hi Lynn! I think we met in Ennis at the Tradfestival
! I didn't know that you are left-handed as well.
I've never felt uncomfortable right-handed, but I met a lot of (right-handed) people who told me that I should. I think you are absolutely right: I should concentrate trying to "follow" my favorite players instead of thinking too much about how my playing looks. Nevertheless, I just tried the "bowing against the wall" and I think I will add it to my practising routine.
Thanks and hope to see you in Ireland again!
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by fiddlinsue
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I'm left handed and have always played fiddle right handed, I started at the age of ten with classical violin and I don't remember finding right handed bowing a problem, my mother was also left handed and played the violin right handed, as do most other left handed fiddlers that I know. To help get the right wrist flexible there are various exercises that might be useful;-
.Hold a pencil in your right hand, with your forearm horizontal, and the pencil vertical. Now try to move the pencil up and down, keeping the pencil vertical ,most importantly not allowing it to move in an arc, moving only your hand, fingers and wrist, and keeping your arm absolutely still.(It's more difficult than you'd think, and it can help to keep your forearm still by holding it with the other hand.
2.This time with your violin, try to keep your right arm still(can help if you get someone else to hold on to it!) and try to bow any open string using only wrist, hand and finger movement, you will get a horrible little scratchy sound with this at first, but it gives the correct wrist movement and eventually your tone will improve and that wrist movement will still be there when you are playing tunes
hope this helps
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by cathycook
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Lots of southpaws play the violin/fiddle, and they almost always play the same way as everyone else. My mother was a left-handed violinist, and she always said it seemed natural and she actually thought she had an advantage over right-handers.
I don't think that altering a fiddle to play with the bow in the left hand is a good idea. It isn't necessary, and it would create problems when trying to play with other fiddlers; consider what would happen if another fiddler was on your right.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by Marklar
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I think this is a general problem and not restricted to left-handed fiddlers.
These things might also be helpful:
- When you move your whole arm, you usually also don't move the bow perpendicular to the strings but perform some kind of circular movement. There are guides available that you can put over your strings that allow only a straight bow movement. This way, you are forced to use more of your wrist in order to avoid hitting these metal guides constantly. Sorry, can't remember under what name they are sold, but maybe a music store can help you there.
- For an exercise, try bowing everything in one bow, in particular across different strings, while keeping your arm steady, just by moving your wrist. E.g. this pattern DAEA FAGA FAEA D. This forces you to turn your wrist and the bow in and out. Vary the rhythm of the patterns, dot the notes, or play Scottish snaps (Strathspey), slur the notes in twos, threes, fourths, etc. Start slowly and control your movements consciously. Play as relaxed and with as little pressure on the bow as possible. Make sure the rhtyhms are very precise. Increase the speed gradually. A metronome might come in handy here. These exercises can only be played correctly with a relaxed and flexible wrist. Your movements also become more economical, since often a little tilt of the wrist is all that is necessary, which in the long run allows you to play faster without losing control.
You can expand the pattern across three strings:
DdEd FdGd AdBd cdBd etc.
DdAd EdAd FdGd etc.
Since many tunes incorporate these and similar patterns, you can also practice this on actual tunes. Much more fun this way.
Exercises like the above also helped me tremendously in improving my bow control, which IMO is the key to good fiddle playing.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by heike
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
We had that Finbar Dwyer in the pub again the other night and he picked up somebody's right-handed fiddle, but played it left handed - i.e. upside down. Now there's class.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by JerryH
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I heared about a fiddle player who can play right and left handed and changes while he plays. Maybe In should copy him, change my cheap Chinese fiddle in a left-handed fiddle and play on both sides
.
Nevertheless, thanks for the suggestions. You guys are really great!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by fiddlinsue
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
JerryH - have you ever seen the Cape Breton fiddler, Kinnon Beaton - that's how he plays. It's amazing to watch - he holds the fiddle vertically - by that I mean at around 90 degrees from "normal" orientation, and as a consequence, his bow ends up almost upside down to play the E string. Great player too!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ron P
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
The fiddle Finbar played was mine
I couldn't believe how he did it but he did.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I find that as well as being incredibly cack-handed at bowing, I also bow back to front to everyone else. i.e. I bow up instead of down and vice versa, just feels more natural to me... I also tend to accent up bows rather than downs. I don't think it matters too much, I'm not planning on joining an orchestra anytime soon....
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Freddy Frog
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Freddy Frog, you'd probably find a baroque orchestra congenial! Especially if you use a baroque bow. I often find it more effective to place an accent with an up bow rather than with a down.
I've never understood why a left-handed raw beginner on the fiddle would want to play left-handed. When you're starting on the instrument you've a lot of brand new lot of neuro-muscular control to learn and develop, as well as muscle and joint development, all of which takes a long time to acquire, and it shouldn't matter if a left hander is taught to bow with the right hand. For convenience, I suppose, all fiddles are designed and made with right-hand bowing in mind. Is there a neuro scientist here who can explain this logically?
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Left handed woodwind instruments have been built since the Renaissance. Oboes for instance used to have three keys, and the bottom one had two touches, depending on whether the player was left or right handed. I believe it was to humour gentleman musicians who were particular about these sorts of things. Or perhaps they took to trouble to suss out which handedness a musician was most apt at.
JW Day was one of the oldest fiddlers to make records - a blind Old Time player - he also played normal fiddles left-handed, without restringing. The Jimi Hendrix approach. Actually I think Jimi did restring his guitars though. Finbarr if I remember correctly just didn't have anyone around to show him how it was done.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
At first glance, fiddles may look symetrical, but they're not. It's not as simple as moving the soundpost and re-stringing with a new nut and bridge. The bass side is a tiny bit larger and the actual wood carving is thicker. You could get a maker to make you a true left handed fiddle, but it would be extra because he'd have to make new patterns and templates. I have seen true left handed fiddles, but never an old one.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I'm a left-handed fiddler and I've been torturing the instrument and all auditory senses for the past few years. As a lefty in a definitely "right" dominated world (no political jokes, please) I've managed to adapt to most things that are "right handed" ie; the fiddle, golf clubs, scissors (yes....there are left-handed scissors!). For me, the fiddle presented three options:
1) Play right handed and work on training my right wrist, forearm etc.
2) Play left handed on a right handed fiddle and "reverse" everything and then train 4 fingers on my right hand to move with the dexterity that their left sided counterparts do naturally.
3) Play left-handed on a left-handed fiddle and spend the remainder of my life having fiddles custom made....
To me it was a "no brainer", adaptation being the hallmark of human evolution and all.....
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by ceolgaelach
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
Trevor, I've always been curoius about that myself. Maybe there's some neuro-reason for the convention - something involving arm movement vs finger movement. Maybe it works better when the dominant side does the arm movement. Or maybe there's no good reason for it.
I had just a few left-handed (fingerstyle) guitar students and only one of them decided to play a right-handed instrument. He did quite well and I didn't detect any particular deficiency in his right-hand work.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
another lefty -- thought this bow was fighting with me cause I was too dum to learn. now I can blame it on my uncoordinated right arm. I do play (pick) bass backwards. not strung left handed but backwards with the g string closest to me but when I bow it I have to turn it the other (correct) way. how stupid is that.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by jehanna
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I am left handed and have always played right handed, I do have to think hard about rhythms and bowing from time to time with new tunes as I usually end up getting confused which then translates into total chaos.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by Joze
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I reckon there are some lefties here who are using it as an excuse
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
I'm of the school that the fiddle should always be played the same way no matter which is the dominant hand. Also, some of the best players seem to me to be left handed, but playing violin left, bow right. It uses each side of the brain equally... and it's always better to be lighter on the bow side.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by pastrings
Re: left-handed fiddler playing right-handed
(I play left handed) with a (left handed fiddle) built from the ground up for a lefty. are thier any disadvantages or advantages playing lefty with a fiddle built for a lefty?
# Posted on May 1st 2007 by lefthandedfiddler