With recent discussions re these "old topics" , I'm reminded of the number of times I've learned or found a "new tune"(to me) only to have it "slagged off" either in a real session or on this site. It used to get really frustrating but it doesn't bother me so much now. In fact, I'm more likely to irritated if I'm expected to know or learn a tune that is "fashionable" and "cool" and I really prefer to make my own mind.
I'm sure you've all learned some great tunes in your time and have been advised here(and elsewhere) that they're not so good after all. How do you feel about this?
Considering the number of tunes in circulation ~ that must be proof that we all haven't the same likes and dislikes, as not 'single' person or 'group' can memorize and carry them all...
There are some popular composers whose work I find I generally like, and others I don't. I don't choose to play those others, at least not more than the first introduction and some time to get familiar with it. That doesn't mean I won't visit it again. Nowadays there are certain ways about mod tunes that are as obvious as the warning beacons and alarm of an ambulance at a major accident. However, I hope not to come down on someone else who enjoys something I initially don't like ~ unless it is a friend and I'm winding them up... Sometimes I've overstepped the mark, not realizing their state of sensitivity.
Generally I'm easy to please, if you like something I will get some satisfaction out of your passion for it, whatever it is... Just sitting back and listening to how you take it... Hell, someone might convince me I was wrong on my initial judgement of the tune ~ someone might convert me to it. I like it when that happens... There are times when a recording and arrangement has put me off and I've later rediscovered the tune and fallen in love with it... That's cool...
That's my ideal, that even if you like what some folks call a 'dag' tune, that you can have your moment with it, an maybe some accompaniment too. But it would be nice if folks also didn't 'expect' others to carry their passion any further ~ whether a 'new tune' or a 'new set' off, for example, the latest 'Lunasa' album. It's kind of hard to pull some of that off without all the electronics and the specific instrumentation ~ the full arrangement...
I've never been advised about my selection of tunes or would I dish out criticism of others. I guess my selection is influenced by what is in vogue at the particular session I'd be attending at any given time.
I agree, what's new to some of us is often regarded as beat out by others. I guess we just have to try and fit in with the regulars. There's no pleasure in playing a tune while the fiddle player is going through the motions and having a chin wag with the box player.
Interesting thread -- you all seem to be on target about what really matters, IMHO. You play what works, you are tolerant of others choices, and try to keep your minds open. I could wish there more of you view in my own territory.
As far as "beat" tunes (several come to my mind, the tunes I don't really want to hear again this millenium), it occurred to me some years ago that the tunes I learned when I was much younger, though now seriously out of vogue, might sound really cool when I get to be a grizzly old piper:
"Gee, where'd you get THAT tune, Grandpa?"
"Why, it was quite popular when I was a kid like you, young player -
I believe it went by the title "The Petrified Chestnut"..."
I agree with John J, having had that experience where you go to a strange session, or even a local one taken over by strange people. Invite dto start a tune, you play your "party piece" and can't help noticing that the others exchange looks of studied boredom and sit it out. Then one of them leads off on a track from a recent CD by a hot young "ITM" group and they all start smiling, spring into life and play the whole set note for note and can barely restrain themselves from going straight on to the next track on the CD as well.
Well, perhaps I'm exaggerating slightly, but you know what I mean ...
Jeeez, what sort of an A _ _ _ H _ _ _ would slag someone off in a session for playing a tune that they just happened to be bored with - especially if that person was a stranger to the session. They would have to have the manners of Jane Goody to be behaving like that!
No point trying to change those folk's attitude though, for under their jumpers they are probably sporting a T Shirt which reads - 'Proud to be an A _ _ _ H _ _ _'!
One of the tunes I wore out in the early days is Harvest Home. I stopped playing it so long ago that I struggle to play along when it comes up... which is very rarely. If it does come up it's usually a visitor who starts it. At this point I don't join in because I'll mess it up. But I don't know if they think I'm snobbing the tune or not.
I can still play most of the other tunes we destroyed in the early days, but some of them I'll sit out anyway even though I can play them in a pinch. But I do try to keep a poker face on, especially if it's being played very ploddingly.
But we only have ourselves to blame for destroying the tunes in the first place. In the early day we hadn't amassed thousands of tunes yet (hee hee) and we tended to over-play the few we knew. Oh the humanity!
There is no such thing as a "good" tune. It is all a matter of preference. To say "The Kesh Jig" is not a good tune because it is played on a regular basis, is a nonsense which smacks of elitism.
Maybe there is a difference between tunes we like to listen to, and tunes we like to play. I'm still a fiddling beginner and I've recently discovered some Dminor jigs that I reckon the neighbours are hating hearing.....but I love because they really make me work. Because I almost automatically play an F# not an F natural and I find the Bflat difficult to get, and so I guess I'm aware of how much I'm learning and improving when I'm practicing these.....and then afterwards my intonation on all the regular G and D major tunes gets SO much better.
There are other sessions Mr Llig. Sometimes I think you are so much in awe of my talent that you believe the world revolves around me, and the only session in the world was "The Bliss session".
Ceolachan, I'm back. Nice to see all the comments here.
I went away to a wee session yesterday afternoon and it was a nice mix of "different"(if not new) and familiar (though not really tired) tunes. There were a few really good musicians present and the rest of us . So, I think that made all the difference.
As a newcomer myself, reading these few discussions really worries me. I have maybe 15 tunes under my belt at the minute and am still too shy to even bring a whistle along to a session. I am positive that each of my piddly old songs would be classified by most of you as 'tired', but where else can we beginners start? I can't wait to know hundreds and never play the same one twice in a month, but it takes years. After reading these discussions I wonder if I'll just have to keep playing alone for the next few years so I don't cause any eye-rolling if ever asked to suggest something. At least some of you sound tolerant of the oldies, but does anyone have fun playing them, besides me?
Certainly they do. Many of the posters here are posers, probably can't play the favourites. Take your whistle along to the next session, it is the only way to learn.
"reading these few discussions really worries me" - who wouldn't be?
Fortunately, this is the Internet, not real life, and we are not real people. Well, I'm real, but that "bodhran genius" bloke is an elaborate hoax I'm sure.
Harvest Home may be tired and done to death to some, but there's always that nice moment when you meet unfamiliar musicians in an unfamiliar place, and you all "lower yourselves" (*sniff*) to play HH for the sake of having *something* in common and everything clicks into place. It's a good loosener - and a great way of giving a friendly welcome to session newcomers like "nic's collection".
Nic... we all were at a place where we only had 15 tunes and they were the sort of tunes alluded to in this thread. For me that was about 26 years ago, and I'm sure that years from now you'll be feeling similar about some tunes to the way people are expressing on this thread. But if you showed up at our session and we asked you to start a tune -- we would play along regardless of how jaded we might be. Why? Because we all remember what it was like to start out, and we all have appreciated the people in our own shoes that were gracious and friendly to us -- and what a difference that made.
Old tunes - new tunes - tired tunes - exiting tunes....what difference does it make. They all sound the same anyway. Ask my wife and kids.
The more tunes ALL can play together the better. We love our new players and try to include them as much as possible at the same time introducing and reinforcing other tunes less familiar to them. That is great enjoyment.
And these tunes are certainly oldies but goodies. That's why they are still around.
Yon Bad Learner writes: "So now you know nic. They'll play along you, but only because they're being gracious."
Interesting use of the word "only" here. I didn't use that word in what I said... or imply it. But you have attached it to spin your interpretation in a way that you could criticize in the next sentence. Do you by any chance work for Fox News?
I recently revisited some of my old tunes that we all learn as beginers, such as The Silver Spear and Sally Gardens. It was interesting in that the I realised that the reason I didn't like them is that I still played them in much the same fashion as when I first learnt them. So, after spending time reworking them I have to say they have come to life again and I'm really enjoying them again. It wasn't the tune that was tired and boring, just how I played them.
I know what you mean. Some of the tunes we over-played stopped being played ages ago and when I eventually go back and rediscover them I find my playing has changed quite a bit and they're reborn in a way. Silver Spear is a good example, I found I could do things now that I had no way of doing before.
The reason a tune becomes tired is because it is so good it gets played a lot. Then I suppose some players fail to give the tune or its players the respect they deserve. That is sad.
Jack, the sense of what I wrote wouldn't change much if I took out the word "only", which my sub-editor at Fox would probably do anyway. You wrote (to paraphrase cruelly but fairly) "Why ... because we remember what it's like... gracious to a newcomer... etc" NOT "because we like these tunes and relish a chance to play them"
I'll let you have the last word, or 1000 words, lest I turn into Will Harmon
The main thing for any newcomer to remember reading this board is that good pub sessions are not usually the social minefield portrayed in these discussions but welcoming friendly places, (like any good pub, never mind the "session" bit) despite the odd off-putting experience such as I recounted earlier.
Yon... The experiences I had with veteran session players I encountered as a beginner can only be characterized as "gracious." They had played the tunes I had to offer hundreds if not thousands of times before I arrived, and the tunes I had were among those commonly associated with beginners. They were not playing them with me because they "relish a chance to play them," but more because they were being polite and accommodating to me as a beginner. For that reason I consider them to be very gracious. That doesn’t mean that they don’t understand why those tunes are popular with beginners, and it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the tunes or with wanting to learn them. But the fact remains that certain tunes that are likely to show up in a beginner’s repertoire might seem a little dog-eared to people that have been playing for a long time.
That's true, Michael, I can recognize when, locally, we might be pushing a tune too much before we actually do any damage. We have a tendancy to avoid over playing tunes that we really like to avoid spoiling them for ourselves.
And maybe the answer is in truly new tunes or newly rediscovered tunes regularly being thrown into the mix....so that most everyone at the session is in fact.....regularly learning something new!
I rarely learn tunes that are outside the mainstream, and there are plenty of those left to learn, so I am constantly rolling out new tunes that most everyone knows. Around here, most people are pretty friendly about playing along with anything, even the old favorites. There are only a few folks in local circles who would stick their nose in the air at "common tunes."
I'm fine with "common tunes," but I'm not sure that's what we're talking about at this point in the thread. Out of what are considered "common tunes" there's a short list of tunes that seem to show up often and are played slowly by beginners. There's nothing wrong with these tunes, but they've been damaged because they seem to always show up in that context. There are many tunes that are structured similar to these tunes but haven't made it onto the short list and don't suffer from the same association.
Could we beginners get a few examples of these 'many tunes that are structured similar to these tunes but haven't made it onto the short list and don't suffer from the same association'?? Sounds like it would be music to our local regulars' ears! Perhaps I could get some suggestions of tunes the regulars would be _happy_ to play instead of inwardly groaning at the thought of! Hey, let's go crazy and get some that aren't even on the very comprehensive 'most common session tunes list 400 and some'! I may be getting way ahead of myself, but who says my first 20 tunes all have to be off that list? Hmmm, should this perhaps be a new subject for discussion, or is it been-there-done-that, and if so what key words could I use to locate the old one? Thanks!
Sorry what?!!? but you now receive a 'Yellow Card' for repetition, for that last statement - & a further 'Yellow Card' for the lack of quotation marks! - so I guess that means ........ Yer Off!
Nic... I wouldn't worry about it, I'm just trying to explain why some tunes get worn out. But we all started out at some point and when we were starting out there were players in sessions who were willing to play these tunes with us regardless of the association. So if you showed up at a session where I was and started one of these tunes, myself and the others would join in and you probably wouldn't notice anything unusual. I consider that to be gracious, and I hope you'll do the same years from now when a new player comes to your session.
There is a reason that the same tunes are always learnt by beginners. They are simple and teach the music. It is important to learn them as they have become part of the language. It also means that you can go anywhere in the world and be able to play with other people, no-matter what their standard, because there are some tunes everyone knows.
Dow started a thread a while ago with a list of standards, so that is a good place to start.
And Nic, if anyone rolls their eyes at you or inwardly groans for playing one of the more basic standards, then they have no idea on the meaning of tradition, and maybe should go off and be pop stars instead.
Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
With recent discussions re these "old topics"
, I'm reminded of the number of times I've learned or found a "new tune"(to me) only to have it "slagged off" either in a real session or on this site. It used to get really frustrating but it doesn't bother me so much now. In fact, I'm more likely to irritated if I'm expected to know or learn a tune that is "fashionable" and "cool" and I really prefer to make my own mind.
I'm sure you've all learned some great tunes in your time and have been advised here(and elsewhere) that they're not so good after all. How do you feel about this?
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Just 'cos someone doesn't like something doesn't mean it isn't good. I guess if everyone doesn't like it, then that's different.
I'm also mystified by the things people really like, which leave me a bit cold.
Each to their own - and I guess that's what makes for variety.
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Considering the number of tunes in circulation ~ that must be proof that we all haven't the same likes and dislikes, as not 'single' person or 'group' can memorize and carry them all...
There are some popular composers whose work I find I generally like, and others I don't. I don't choose to play those others, at least not more than the first introduction and some time to get familiar with it. That doesn't mean I won't visit it again. Nowadays there are certain ways about mod tunes that are as obvious as the warning beacons and alarm of an ambulance at a major accident. However, I hope not to come down on someone else who enjoys something I initially don't like ~ unless it is a friend and I'm winding them up... Sometimes I've overstepped the mark, not realizing their state of sensitivity.
Generally I'm easy to please, if you like something I will get some satisfaction out of your passion for it, whatever it is... Just sitting back and listening to how you take it... Hell, someone might convince me I was wrong on my initial judgement of the tune ~ someone might convert me to it. I like it when that happens... There are times when a recording and arrangement has put me off and I've later rediscovered the tune and fallen in love with it... That's cool...
That's my ideal, that even if you like what some folks call a 'dag' tune, that you can have your moment with it, an maybe some accompaniment too. But it would be nice if folks also didn't 'expect' others to carry their passion any further ~ whether a 'new tune' or a 'new set' off, for example, the latest 'Lunasa' album. It's kind of hard to pull some of that off without all the electronics and the specific instrumentation ~ the full arrangement...
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
I've never been advised about my selection of tunes or would I dish out criticism of others. I guess my selection is influenced by what is in vogue at the particular session I'd be attending at any given time.
I agree, what's new to some of us is often regarded as beat out by others. I guess we just have to try and fit in with the regulars. There's no pleasure in playing a tune while the fiddle player is going through the motions and having a chin wag with the box player.
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Strathfoyle
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Interesting thread -- you all seem to be on target about what really matters, IMHO. You play what works, you are tolerant of others choices, and try to keep your minds open. I could wish there more of you view in my own territory.
As far as "beat" tunes (several come to my mind, the tunes I don't really want to hear again this millenium), it occurred to me some years ago that the tunes I learned when I was much younger, though now seriously out of vogue, might sound really cool when I get to be a grizzly old piper:
"Gee, where'd you get THAT tune, Grandpa?"
"Why, it was quite popular when I was a kid like you, young player -
I believe it went by the title "The Petrified Chestnut"..."
Cheers.
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Rook
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
I agree with John J, having had that experience where you go to a strange session, or even a local one taken over by strange people. Invite dto start a tune, you play your "party piece" and can't help noticing that the others exchange looks of studied boredom and sit it out. Then one of them leads off on a track from a recent CD by a hot young "ITM" group and they all start smiling, spring into life and play the whole set note for note and can barely restrain themselves from going straight on to the next track on the CD as well.
Well, perhaps I'm exaggerating slightly, but you know what I mean ...
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Bren
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Yes! ~
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Jeeez, what sort of an A _ _ _ H _ _ _ would slag someone off in a session for playing a tune that they just happened to be bored with - especially if that person was a stranger to the session. They would have to have the manners of Jane Goody to be behaving like that!
No point trying to change those folk's attitude though, for under their jumpers they are probably sporting a T Shirt which reads - 'Proud to be an A _ _ _ H _ _ _'!
There are no tired tunes - just tired players!
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Who's Jane Goody?
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Sorry benhall, I must have been in my Tarsan mode when I wrote that - I meant Jade, .......... of course
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
"The Tarsan system is one of the most potentially dangerous systems in Federation Space."
I had no idea you were a trekkie, ptarmigan!
Is that why you're into trad, too? (wanting to 'cling on' to the past 'n' all)
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
One of the tunes I wore out in the early days is Harvest Home. I stopped playing it so long ago that I struggle to play along when it comes up... which is very rarely. If it does come up it's usually a visitor who starts it. At this point I don't join in because I'll mess it up. But I don't know if they think I'm snobbing the tune or not.
I can still play most of the other tunes we destroyed in the early days, but some of them I'll sit out anyway even though I can play them in a pinch. But I do try to keep a poker face on, especially if it's being played very ploddingly.
But we only have ourselves to blame for destroying the tunes in the first place. In the early day we hadn't amassed thousands of tunes yet (hee hee) and we tended to over-play the few we knew. Oh the humanity!
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
No Benhall, I really did mean Tarzan - & to prove it, here's a photo of me in my costume:
http://www.buycostumes.com/productdetail.aspx?productid=18189&AFC-cju&link=showcase&AID=10273928&PID=2100672&SID=NAT172151
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Ptarmy! Please come to my session!
I could show you some new tricks ...
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
"Ooh you are awful ... but I like you" ........ & what kind of a 'session' are you thinking of, eh?
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Hey guys... get a room.
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
You mean
hyuk! 
hyuk! 
hyuk! don't you? 
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "Newt tune" is a "Tyred tune"
Ben, I'd make sure Ptarm leaves the bone behind if he's coming to this 'special' session...
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Hahahahaha
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Hey Ceolachan, leave my 'bone' alone!
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
... and a very impressive bone it is ... mmm-mmm
Meanwhile, sorry 'n' all, but I'm off to get p*ssed with my SO.
Toodle-pip!
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Me too Ben, or we two, at the moment it is St. Peters, their lemon and ginger spiced ale...
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
What ever happened to John J anyway?
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
There is no such thing as a "good" tune. It is all a matter of preference. To say "The Kesh Jig" is not a good tune because it is played on a regular basis, is a nonsense which smacks of elitism.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Maybe there is a difference between tunes we like to listen to, and tunes we like to play. I'm still a fiddling beginner and I've recently discovered some Dminor jigs that I reckon the neighbours are hating hearing.....but I love because they really make me work. Because I almost automatically play an F# not an F natural and I find the Bflat difficult to get, and so I guess I'm aware of how much I'm learning and improving when I'm practicing these.....and then afterwards my intonation on all the regular G and D major tunes gets SO much better.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
"There is no such thing as a "good" tune."
This comes from someone who reckons that for "years" no one has played a new tune at his session (except from him)
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
There are other sessions Mr Llig. Sometimes I think you are so much in awe of my talent that you believe the world revolves around me, and the only session in the world was "The Bliss session".
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Ceolachan, I'm back. Nice to see all the comments here.
I went away to a wee session yesterday afternoon and it was a nice mix of "different"(if not new) and familiar (though not really tired) tunes. There were a few really good musicians present and the rest of us
. So, I think that made all the difference.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
As a newcomer myself, reading these few discussions really worries me. I have maybe 15 tunes under my belt at the minute and am still too shy to even bring a whistle along to a session. I am positive that each of my piddly old songs would be classified by most of you as 'tired', but where else can we beginners start? I can't wait to know hundreds and never play the same one twice in a month, but it takes years. After reading these discussions I wonder if I'll just have to keep playing alone for the next few years so I don't cause any eye-rolling if ever asked to suggest something. At least some of you sound tolerant of the oldies, but does anyone have fun playing them, besides me?
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by nic's collection
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Certainly they do. Many of the posters here are posers, probably can't play the favourites. Take your whistle along to the next session, it is the only way to learn.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
"reading these few discussions really worries me" - who wouldn't be?
Fortunately, this is the Internet, not real life, and we are not real people. Well, I'm real, but that "bodhran genius" bloke is an elaborate hoax I'm sure.
Harvest Home may be tired and done to death to some, but there's always that nice moment when you meet unfamiliar musicians in an unfamiliar place, and you all "lower yourselves" (*sniff*) to play HH for the sake of having *something* in common and everything clicks into place. It's a good loosener - and a great way of giving a friendly welcome to session newcomers like "nic's collection".
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by Bren
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Nic... we all were at a place where we only had 15 tunes and they were the sort of tunes alluded to in this thread. For me that was about 26 years ago, and I'm sure that years from now you'll be feeling similar about some tunes to the way people are expressing on this thread. But if you showed up at our session and we asked you to start a tune -- we would play along regardless of how jaded we might be. Why? Because we all remember what it was like to start out, and we all have appreciated the people in our own shoes that were gracious and friendly to us -- and what a difference that made.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
So now you know nic. They'll play along you, but only because they're being gracious.
Sorry Jack, but some folk still play these tunes with obvious enjoyment, no matter how long ago they first learned them.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by Bren
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Old tunes - new tunes - tired tunes - exiting tunes....what difference does it make. They all sound the same anyway. Ask my wife and kids.
The more tunes ALL can play together the better. We love our new players and try to include them as much as possible at the same time introducing and reinforcing other tunes less familiar to them. That is great enjoyment.
And these tunes are certainly oldies but goodies. That's why they are still around.
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by feardearg
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Thanks for the encouragement! And, funnily enough, Harvest Home actually was the first tune I learned... from a dutch fiddle player in France!
# Posted on February 4th 2007 by nic's collection
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
And then there's that old colloquial phrase when someone responds to hearing you play Irish music :
"You mean that diddly diddly stuff, it all sounds the same to me..."
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Yon Bad Learner writes: "So now you know nic. They'll play along you, but only because they're being gracious."
Interesting use of the word "only" here. I didn't use that word in what I said... or imply it. But you have attached it to spin your interpretation in a way that you could criticize in the next sentence. Do you by any chance work for Fox News?
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
I recently revisited some of my old tunes that we all learn as beginers, such as The Silver Spear and Sally Gardens. It was interesting in that the I realised that the reason I didn't like them is that I still played them in much the same fashion as when I first learnt them. So, after spending time reworking them I have to say they have come to life again and I'm really enjoying them again. It wasn't the tune that was tired and boring, just how I played them.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by woops
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
I know what you mean. Some of the tunes we over-played stopped being played ages ago and when I eventually go back and rediscover them I find my playing has changed quite a bit and they're reborn in a way. Silver Spear is a good example, I found I could do things now that I had no way of doing before.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
The reason a tune becomes tired is because it is so good it gets played a lot. Then I suppose some players fail to give the tune or its players the respect they deserve. That is sad.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by wodeninjun
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Jack, the sense of what I wrote wouldn't change much if I took out the word "only", which my sub-editor at Fox would probably do anyway. You wrote (to paraphrase cruelly but fairly) "Why ... because we remember what it's like... gracious to a newcomer... etc" NOT "because we like these tunes and relish a chance to play them"
I'll let you have the last word, or 1000 words, lest I turn into Will Harmon
The main thing for any newcomer to remember reading this board is that good pub sessions are not usually the social minefield portrayed in these discussions but welcoming friendly places, (like any good pub, never mind the "session" bit) despite the odd off-putting experience such as I recounted earlier.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Bren
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Yon... The experiences I had with veteran session players I encountered as a beginner can only be characterized as "gracious." They had played the tunes I had to offer hundreds if not thousands of times before I arrived, and the tunes I had were among those commonly associated with beginners. They were not playing them with me because they "relish a chance to play them," but more because they were being polite and accommodating to me as a beginner. For that reason I consider them to be very gracious. That doesn’t mean that they don’t understand why those tunes are popular with beginners, and it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the tunes or with wanting to learn them. But the fact remains that certain tunes that are likely to show up in a beginner’s repertoire might seem a little dog-eared to people that have been playing for a long time.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
If a tune becomes tired merely because it's played a lot, then surely part of the respect a tune deserves is not to be overplayed.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
That's true, Michael, I can recognize when, locally, we might be pushing a tune too much before we actually do any damage. We have a tendancy to avoid over playing tunes that we really like to avoid spoiling them for ourselves.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
And maybe the answer is in truly new tunes or newly rediscovered tunes regularly being thrown into the mix....so that most everyone at the session is in fact.....regularly learning something new!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
I rarely learn tunes that are outside the mainstream, and there are plenty of those left to learn, so I am constantly rolling out new tunes that most everyone knows. Around here, most people are pretty friendly about playing along with anything, even the old favorites. There are only a few folks in local circles who would stick their nose in the air at "common tunes."
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
I'm fine with "common tunes," but I'm not sure that's what we're talking about at this point in the thread. Out of what are considered "common tunes" there's a short list of tunes that seem to show up often and are played slowly by beginners. There's nothing wrong with these tunes, but they've been damaged because they seem to always show up in that context. There are many tunes that are structured similar to these tunes but haven't made it onto the short list and don't suffer from the same association.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Could we beginners get a few examples of these 'many tunes that are structured similar to these tunes but haven't made it onto the short list and don't suffer from the same association'?? Sounds like it would be music to our local regulars' ears! Perhaps I could get some suggestions of tunes the regulars would be _happy_ to play instead of inwardly groaning at the thought of! Hey, let's go crazy and get some that aren't even on the very comprehensive 'most common session tunes list 400 and some'! I may be getting way ahead of myself, but who says my first 20 tunes all have to be off that list? Hmmm, should this perhaps be a new subject for discussion, or is it been-there-done-that, and if so what key words could I use to locate the old one? Thanks!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by nic's collection
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Sorry what?!!? but you now receive a 'Yellow Card' for repetition, for that last statement - & a further 'Yellow Card' for the lack of quotation marks! - so I guess that means ........ Yer Off!
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
Nic... I wouldn't worry about it, I'm just trying to explain why some tunes get worn out. But we all started out at some point and when we were starting out there were players in sessions who were willing to play these tunes with us regardless of the association. So if you showed up at a session where I was and started one of these tunes, myself and the others would join in and you probably wouldn't notice anything unusual. I consider that to be gracious, and I hope you'll do the same years from now when a new player comes to your session.
# Posted on February 5th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
There is a reason that the same tunes are always learnt by beginners. They are simple and teach the music. It is important to learn them as they have become part of the language. It also means that you can go anywhere in the world and be able to play with other people, no-matter what their standard, because there are some tunes everyone knows.
Dow started a thread a while ago with a list of standards, so that is a good place to start.
And Nic, if anyone rolls their eyes at you or inwardly groans for playing one of the more basic standards, then they have no idea on the meaning of tradition, and maybe should go off and be pop stars instead.
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by woops
Re: Your "New tune" is a "Tired tune"
A Dowist list:
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/1311
Discussion: "Common Session Tunes"
# Posted on September 19th 2001 by will harmon
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/110/
Discussion: "Too many tunes"
# Posted on November 30th 2006 by Dow
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11887
~ "common-session-tunes" and "standards-you're-expected-to-know" are not necessarily the same thing...
# Posted on February 6th 2007 by ceolachan