I recently purchased a Gold Tone IT250. It has a White Layde and a Weatherking head. It's a nice banjo, but the top string has very little sustain vs. way too much plunk all together. What moves can I make to change that? I also have a graphite bridge and a clear head (not on the banjo)
There are a lot of things that will change the "plunkiness" of the banjo.
Head: Tightening the head will give you more ring and less plunk. A different type of head can change the sound a lot as well. Frosted plastic heads are usually the brightest sound. If you rub your fingers on the head, or place your pinky on the head, you might think about an inner-frosted head (to keep your fingers from making a scraping noise).
Bridge: If you have a way of getting your hands on some different bridges, try them. Generally, a lighter-weight bridge will give you more ring and less plunk. But every bridge sounds different, and sounds different on different banjos. (I have a Snuffy Smith on my Paramount - Elderly sells them)
Strings: The lighter the strings, the more high end ring.
Plectrum: The lighter the pick, the more high end you'll get, but less volume.
Most banjo players I know are into experimenting. You generally won't break anything, so start tweaking! For me, I find that there's a fine line between a good ring, and being too bright and losing any good low end.
I would start by tightening the head a bit and see what that does for you. What kind of head does it have on it now? I think the Gold Tones come stock with a plain plastic head. You might try a frosted head from StewMac or Elderly. They're easy enough to replace on a modern banjo, and they only run about $16. (I have a skin head on my Paramount... tried a bunch of others, but nothing gives the ring like a skin head, at least on that banjo).
It may also be that the White Layde tone ring isn't going to give you the sound you're looking for, but there's a lot to tweak before you come to any conclusion like that!
I'd beg to differ a little from Reverend. You can easily break bits of a banjo so be careful. Even if it's only the skin, it's several quid, an hour or two to fit it (depending on your ability and the fit of the neck to the pot/hoop) and then setup from scratch. Take great care with any screw thread adjustments and don't over tighten things. Good luck.
I reckon the recorded tone that I really like is Angelina's (Carberry). I'm a pro musician, so I'm all to familiar with what mic can make an instr. sound like and what I actually sounds like, BUT tis' that quality across the board that I'm going for.
Below is a link that has the an exact pic of what I have (so you can see the head type, w/the exception that I have a resonaotor on it. I alos have a clear plastic head and a graphite bridge as posssibilities to install.
You mentioned tightening the head and I believe it's fairly tight, but have not checked it via a head key. I think it's tight as there's quite alot of ring coming from the head itself, but i'll check and get back to ye'.
Here's the link for the pix
www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/GTIT250.htm
Mike Keyes had some suggestions for modifying a gold tone some time back. A good banjo-oriented luthier can do wonders. A person that tweaks banjos a lot can set it up for you without a lot of experimentation and frustration.
A related question (hope I am not hijacking). My banjo has the same skin head on it that was on it when my grandfather bought it in the 30's. Is that unusual for a skin head to last that long? The banjo has a nice warm sound to it, not as twangy as most I hear, which I think is because of the head. Should I pivot the head at some point so the bridge rests in a different spot to prevent it wearing through?
Thanks,
My banjo has the original skin head from 1920. I hadn't thought about the bridge wearing through...but it's lasted this long. But now you've got me worried.
If you go to my personal site, http://www.mikekeyes.com and go to the Irish tenor banjo section, you will find some information on setup. Mostly it is a good set of links on the subject but I do have some of my own ideas on the subject.
I like Angelina Carberry's sound too but you have to realize that each banjo has a unique sound and each manufacturer has a signature sound. Her banjo is a bracket style like yours but not only is her banjo a lot different from yours, but it is set up differently with a clear head, kershner style tailpiece, a gibson or Vega style tone ring, and other quality parts. Plus her banjo is hand made and not assembled from imported parts. I am not sure that you can achieve that sound with your IT-250 as it will tend more towards the Vega Whyte Laydie sound. But you can set it up better than it is now.
Read the Bill Palmer stuff on head tightening and think about getting some other bridges (contact me about that) and a different head. This is my prejudice, but I don't like the Fyberskin heads, preferring several of the others instead. Also, the tailpiece and tuners sold on Gold Tone banjos are usually junk. Wood is a much better medium for transmitting the vibrations from the strings to the head than graphite and there are some remarkable things you can do with various wood combinations on bridges.
As for the ancient skin head on Al Brown's banjo, if you don't want it, sell it to me! Older good quality skins (they rarely make them like that anymore) are fine as long as they were not dried out or broken. They will last for a very long time if they are kept from drying out (which ruins the banjo too) and are played since natural oils from your hands (or the chicken you eat <G>) keep it fresh. Skin has some wonderful properties if you are willing to work with it all the time. Nothing sounds better in my opinion, but then if it is humid, nothing sounds worse.
What you can do with the Gold Tone is make sure that it has the best setup, the best parts, and then do the setup your self or find someone who can do it for you. Then your banjo will sound like a well setup Gold Tone which is not bad, but it probably won't sound like Angelina Carberry's banjo, especially since she is not playing it <G>
I've often thought of getting a Gold Tone IT250, as I've had several close calls with my vintage banjos (clumsy flute players with beer and light-fingered punters). I'd like a banjo head that has no antique/sentimental value and that stout will just bead up and wipe off. It would be nice not to have to worry about somebody opening the door and the thing going badly out of tune as well.
If you decide to modify, please keep me posted as to how it sounds. I'm not too terribly fond of the stock sound of the Gold Tones...
Yeah, I agree with Mike about not liking the Fiberskyn heads much. They are a "plunky" sounding head on a lot of banjos. I did a setup on a banjo recently that had an Elite head that looks just like the fiberskyn, but I thought it was a better sounding head. In a worn spot, it appeared to be a plain plastic head with a coating on it, similar to the frosted heads.
So Mike, what's your suggestion for when I take the Paramount to Ireland? Should I take the old (maybe original) skin head off of it for the trip, since I will be going from a very dry climate to a much wetter one?
I was just assuming that I'd need to tighten it a bit when I get there (and hopefully remember to loosen it when coming home).
The only other head that I have handy that fits that banjo is a Renaissance. It's not a bad sound, but doesn't match the skin.
I'd go ahead and get a 5 star or a Remo Weatherking from Stew-mac and/or Elderly if you don't like the Renaissance. The heavier bluegrass heads are not bad on Paramounts (that's all I saw in TX in Oct. at the John Carty workshop) and you don't have to worry about the humidity. I'll bet that if you get the head tension right, the Renaissance head will sound fine.
Unfortunately, the Paramount takes a non-standard size (It takes an 1102-M 11 1/8" medium crown) that Elderly usually has back-ordered for most of the styles. (Know any other sites that carry the non-standard sizes?)
I wouldn't mind trying a plastic or frosted head on it, but most of the heads I have lying around are 11" ones.
I had the Renaissance head on it for a gig in December, because I knew the hot lights would wreak havoc on the skin. I guess I'll put that on again for Ireland.
I Just made my own bridge from solid walnut. It sounds wonderful and took out a lot of 'plunk'. The only problem with making your own is getting it the right size. I traced my old one and started from there.
It seems the smaller the bottom of the bridge is the higher the ring is, but not so small it damages the head. The only problem I had was that I made it a little too short and my strings buzz......amazing action though. =]
Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
I recently purchased a Gold Tone IT250. It has a White Layde and a Weatherking head. It's a nice banjo, but the top string has very little sustain vs. way too much plunk all together. What moves can I make to change that? I also have a graphite bridge and a clear head (not on the banjo)
Mucho help please!
thanx pickers
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by brazenkaine
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
There are a lot of things that will change the "plunkiness" of the banjo.
Head: Tightening the head will give you more ring and less plunk. A different type of head can change the sound a lot as well. Frosted plastic heads are usually the brightest sound. If you rub your fingers on the head, or place your pinky on the head, you might think about an inner-frosted head (to keep your fingers from making a scraping noise).
Bridge: If you have a way of getting your hands on some different bridges, try them. Generally, a lighter-weight bridge will give you more ring and less plunk. But every bridge sounds different, and sounds different on different banjos. (I have a Snuffy Smith on my Paramount - Elderly sells them)
Strings: The lighter the strings, the more high end ring.
Plectrum: The lighter the pick, the more high end you'll get, but less volume.
Most banjo players I know are into experimenting. You generally won't break anything, so start tweaking! For me, I find that there's a fine line between a good ring, and being too bright and losing any good low end.
I would start by tightening the head a bit and see what that does for you. What kind of head does it have on it now? I think the Gold Tones come stock with a plain plastic head. You might try a frosted head from StewMac or Elderly. They're easy enough to replace on a modern banjo, and they only run about $16. (I have a skin head on my Paramount... tried a bunch of others, but nothing gives the ring like a skin head, at least on that banjo).
It may also be that the White Layde tone ring isn't going to give you the sound you're looking for, but there's a lot to tweak before you come to any conclusion like that!
Good luck!
Pete
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
I'd beg to differ a little from Reverend. You can easily break bits of a banjo so be careful. Even if it's only the skin, it's several quid, an hour or two to fit it (depending on your ability and the fit of the neck to the pot/hoop) and then setup from scratch. Take great care with any screw thread adjustments and don't over tighten things. Good luck.
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Maybe we need a Plunkerometer to measure the plunk factor.
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by JerryH
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
I reckon the recorded tone that I really like is Angelina's (Carberry). I'm a pro musician, so I'm all to familiar with what mic can make an instr. sound like and what I actually sounds like, BUT tis' that quality across the board that I'm going for.
Below is a link that has the an exact pic of what I have (so you can see the head type, w/the exception that I have a resonaotor on it. I alos have a clear plastic head and a graphite bridge as posssibilities to install.
You mentioned tightening the head and I believe it's fairly tight, but have not checked it via a head key. I think it's tight as there's quite alot of ring coming from the head itself, but i'll check and get back to ye'.
Here's the link for the pix
www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/GTIT250.htm
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by brazenkaine
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Mike Keyes had some suggestions for modifying a gold tone some time back. A good banjo-oriented luthier can do wonders. A person that tweaks banjos a lot can set it up for you without a lot of experimentation and frustration.
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
A related question (hope I am not hijacking). My banjo has the same skin head on it that was on it when my grandfather bought it in the 30's. Is that unusual for a skin head to last that long? The banjo has a nice warm sound to it, not as twangy as most I hear, which I think is because of the head. Should I pivot the head at some point so the bridge rests in a different spot to prevent it wearing through?
Thanks,
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
My banjo has the original skin head from 1920. I hadn't thought about the bridge wearing through...but it's lasted this long. But now you've got me worried.
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
If you go to my personal site, http://www.mikekeyes.com and go to the Irish tenor banjo section, you will find some information on setup. Mostly it is a good set of links on the subject but I do have some of my own ideas on the subject.
I like Angelina Carberry's sound too but you have to realize that each banjo has a unique sound and each manufacturer has a signature sound. Her banjo is a bracket style like yours but not only is her banjo a lot different from yours, but it is set up differently with a clear head, kershner style tailpiece, a gibson or Vega style tone ring, and other quality parts. Plus her banjo is hand made and not assembled from imported parts. I am not sure that you can achieve that sound with your IT-250 as it will tend more towards the Vega Whyte Laydie sound. But you can set it up better than it is now.
Read the Bill Palmer stuff on head tightening and think about getting some other bridges (contact me about that) and a different head. This is my prejudice, but I don't like the Fyberskin heads, preferring several of the others instead. Also, the tailpiece and tuners sold on Gold Tone banjos are usually junk. Wood is a much better medium for transmitting the vibrations from the strings to the head than graphite and there are some remarkable things you can do with various wood combinations on bridges.
As for the ancient skin head on Al Brown's banjo, if you don't want it, sell it to me! Older good quality skins (they rarely make them like that anymore) are fine as long as they were not dried out or broken. They will last for a very long time if they are kept from drying out (which ruins the banjo too) and are played since natural oils from your hands (or the chicken you eat <G>) keep it fresh. Skin has some wonderful properties if you are willing to work with it all the time. Nothing sounds better in my opinion, but then if it is humid, nothing sounds worse.
What you can do with the Gold Tone is make sure that it has the best setup, the best parts, and then do the setup your self or find someone who can do it for you. Then your banjo will sound like a well setup Gold Tone which is not bad, but it probably won't sound like Angelina Carberry's banjo, especially since she is not playing it <G>
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
I've often thought of getting a Gold Tone IT250, as I've had several close calls with my vintage banjos (clumsy flute players with beer and light-fingered punters). I'd like a banjo head that has no antique/sentimental value and that stout will just bead up and wipe off. It would be nice not to have to worry about somebody opening the door and the thing going badly out of tune as well.
If you decide to modify, please keep me posted as to how it sounds. I'm not too terribly fond of the stock sound of the Gold Tones...
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Mike,
How do I contact you?
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by brazenkaine
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
My email is mikeyes@charter.net or there is a way to do it through thesession.
MIke Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Yeah, I agree with Mike about not liking the Fiberskyn heads much. They are a "plunky" sounding head on a lot of banjos. I did a setup on a banjo recently that had an Elite head that looks just like the fiberskyn, but I thought it was a better sounding head. In a worn spot, it appeared to be a plain plastic head with a coating on it, similar to the frosted heads.
So Mike, what's your suggestion for when I take the Paramount to Ireland? Should I take the old (maybe original) skin head off of it for the trip, since I will be going from a very dry climate to a much wetter one?
I was just assuming that I'd need to tighten it a bit when I get there (and hopefully remember to loosen it when coming home).
The only other head that I have handy that fits that banjo is a Renaissance. It's not a bad sound, but doesn't match the skin.
Pete
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Pete,
I'd go ahead and get a 5 star or a Remo Weatherking from Stew-mac and/or Elderly if you don't like the Renaissance. The heavier bluegrass heads are not bad on Paramounts (that's all I saw in TX in Oct. at the John Carty workshop) and you don't have to worry about the humidity. I'll bet that if you get the head tension right, the Renaissance head will sound fine.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Thanks Mike,
Unfortunately, the Paramount takes a non-standard size (It takes an 1102-M 11 1/8" medium crown) that Elderly usually has back-ordered for most of the styles. (Know any other sites that carry the non-standard sizes?)
I wouldn't mind trying a plastic or frosted head on it, but most of the heads I have lying around are 11" ones.
I had the Renaissance head on it for a gig in December, because I knew the hot lights would wreak havoc on the skin. I guess I'll put that on again for Ireland.
Pete
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Oh, and apologies for the thread-hijack
Pete
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
Update: Elderly had an expected date for getting in an inner-frosted head that would fit. So I ordered it. With any luck, it arrives before Ireland
Pete
# Posted on February 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Plunk Factor and how to Change it
I Just made my own bridge from solid walnut. It sounds wonderful and took out a lot of 'plunk'. The only problem with making your own is getting it the right size. I traced my old one and started from there.
It seems the smaller the bottom of the bridge is the higher the ring is, but not so small it damages the head. The only problem I had was that I made it a little too short and my strings buzz......amazing action though. =]
# Posted on June 14th 2009 by David A Smith