Do you defy much of the conventional wisdom and allow your right hand to touch the pickguard or banjo head? I've always heard it was wrong, and destroyed your technique. But as I've grown older, my mistreatment of my hands during my youth has come back to haunt me, and it is simply far more comfortable to allow my fingers to lightly touch/drag the body/head. I was also intrigued by this analysis:
It also gives me a bit of a mute on my banjo, which is a good thing. I seem to recall somebody (Ptarmigan?) saying something similar a while back. How do you do it? Do you free-float, lightly drag or even firmly plant?
I thinkI've only ever met one mandolin player whose right hand does not touch the instrument at all while playing. This particular Player has the ability to attack the strings with remarkable precision from a great distance. I cannot say I have payed a great deal of attention to the right hand technique of other players, but I have observed both the fist-with-heel-of-palm-resting-behind-bridge approach and the forefinger-and-thumb-hold-with-other-fingers resting on-soundboard (or pickgaurd). I fall ointo the first category. I find I need to use three fingers (thumb, middle and forefinger) to hold the plectrum, in order to get enough attack and to avoid dropping it. But i often find my6 hand becoming tense - something I need to work on.
I tend to say you should do whatever helps you play, as long as you're not introducing unnecessary tension. I've seen plenty of pickers who have excellent control without propping or brushing anywhere, but not all of us have the anatomy, musculature, etc. to do that. The original basis for the taboo was probably to avoid damping the sound of the instrument. That's a noble goal, but wouldn't you rather damp the sound slightly than not play at all?
Spoon's comment reminds me that I used to see guitar and mando players swinging at the strings from six inches away, on the down stroke, and sounding great. I never understood the rationale for it and I haven't seen it in a long time.
i tend to rest my wrist slightly on the bridge (of mandolin) or on the strings below it (nearer the tailpiece than the fretboard if you understand). this is the only way i can paly smoothly. you'd be using your wrist alot more this way and it doesn't dampen the sound all that much. my teacher doesn't agree. whatever feels comfortable would be my advice.
I'm going through this battle at the moment. Coming from a guitar background where I was taught to keep my hand just behind the bridge when playing fingerstyle so as to have a "reference point"........when playing the mandolin i find myself either resting my right hand just behind the bridge or else resting my little finger on the scratch plate. I am only playing the mandolin a few months and would like to get this sorted so I don't have to undo bad habits down the line. I'd imagine that there has to be contact somwhere to allow smooth playing without having to look at the strings?!? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I guess most of us are forever chopping and changing our plectrum grips and right hand positions whilst practicing. Well I definitely do. I remember a time when my wee finger, in an open position, used to touch the banjo head but I got out of that habit on good advice received and watching others play. My right arm, about two inches above the wrist, touches the arm rest but not firmly anchored while my fingers, other than the index, are in a semi-clenched fist. I try to keep them off the bridge and strings behind but I often brush them with third and wee fingers. But that wee fault aside, I'm content for now with the way my right hand is functioning.
My playing came on leaps and bounds when I ceased allowing my wee finger touch the banjo head.
If you watch good banjo and mandolin players, you will see that they have varying styles as far as the non grip fingers go. Some use the fingers to orient themselves by brushing the head, bridge and strings, others keep their fingers close up and may use the wrist against the bridge for the same purpose. Or all the above. To me it is a matter of taste and anatomy, open fingers often indicate a relaxed hand.
What you won't see better players do is anchor their fingers on the head of the banjo or the body of the mandolin.
Your right hand and arm (assuming you play right handed) should be relaxed but there has to be an anchor somewhere for consistency and the forearm above the wrist is probably the best place for both mandolin and banjo. I use the armrest placed all the way down to the tension ring on a banjo and have armrests on all my mandolins. That way I have the best angle for my hand with each instrument and am able to have a relaxed stroke. I touch the bridge on both instruments (make sure that you soften the edges of the bridge or you will have a painful experience) with my wrist but not anchor the hand there or it will effect the sound of the instrument. I also use my fingers to orient on the head and the strings.
If you are trying to get the best sound from your instrument you will be moving up and down the "sweet spot" (the area from the bridge to the neck that sound best) which requires that your wrist be free to move and you should be using a wrist stroke for a consistent and good sounding tone. In addition, if you want to make the treble/triplet ornament with either of the two regular techniques, your wrist has to be free.
You can't have a relaxed arm/wrist/hand if you keep it suspended above the instrument as you will tire out too quickly. One of the best ways to see good technique is to watch videos of good mandolin players no matter what genre they play. My best teacher for this was Roland White who spent several hours in a class last year just dealing with this. I will be seeing Andy Statman this weekend who is teaching a similar course in Madison.
You want to develop a relaxed consistent right hand that produces the best tone for your instrument. Once you have that, you can do almost anything you want at almost any speed (depending on your talent level, of course) but it takes a while to do this and a teacher is very helpful during this period of development and afterwards to keep you consistent. There are a lot of subtleties to the right hand and there is no absolute right way to do it, but there are some principles that seem to carry over from all styles, relaxation and consistency being two of the most important ones for developing good tone.
At one stage in my playing I used to put massage oil ( well almond oil and the like ) on the head of the banjo where my 3 non-plectrum gripping fingers rested. The idea was that any amount of pressure and therefore friction/resistance on the head was negated. This in turn lead to a smooth action and gave a strong feeling of orientation. Ive managed to give up the oil and now try and touch the head as lightly as possible but during the course of a tune the pressure builds and builds. I can float the hand now but only play slowly. Maybe I'll try fingerpicks. Naaah, that would be ridiculous!!
If you go to http://www.mandolinsessions.com and check out the interview with Roger Landes, you will see a few videos on how he uses his right hand including a lesson on triplets.
Yes, Mike, I've enjoyed your banjo sessions and the mandolin sessions for some time. It's very good of you to spread the word, and I really enjoyed the stuff you got from Mick Moloney. I always enjoyed Irish music, but it was seeing him live that made me want to play it.
I'm comfortable with my technique, but I was recently scolded for doing it "wrong" by another mandolin player. Having tried several approaches and finding the one I currently use to be most comfortable, I was curious to see what others are using.
I'm curious about the mandolin armrest. I worry about attaching anything to my baby, though...
I used to anchor my pinky on the banjo head, but that has evolved into more of a light brushing. I don't like playing banjos without an armrest, and the palm of my hand touches the bridge lightly.
I use the muting factor of these things to my advantage from time to time to add a of another dynamic to the sound.
Actually, my Paramount has a factory installed mute! I can't think of a reason to use it, other than for making people laugh at sessions. The banjo sounds so hilarious with the mute on (go ahead... bring on the jokes... I can take it)
Armrests attach to a mandolin with the same hardware that a chin rest attaches to a violin(the exception is here http://www.soundtoearth.com/prod_armrest.htm ). I have a varnished mandolin and I am sure that I am leaving a little mark on the top and bottom of my instrument, but the gains are worth it. For one thing, I no longer attack the finish with my sweat, but more importantly I have a better angle of attack with my right hand and am able to relax more.
Mandolin & banjo right hand
Mandolin & banjo right hand
Mandolin and banjo players-
Do you defy much of the conventional wisdom and allow your right hand to touch the pickguard or banjo head? I've always heard it was wrong, and destroyed your technique. But as I've grown older, my mistreatment of my hands during my youth has come back to haunt me, and it is simply far more comfortable to allow my fingers to lightly touch/drag the body/head. I was also intrigued by this analysis:
http://www.mandozine.com/index.php/techniques/techinfo/right_hand_technique_study/
It also gives me a bit of a mute on my banjo, which is a good thing. I seem to recall somebody (Ptarmigan?) saying something similar a while back. How do you do it? Do you free-float, lightly drag or even firmly plant?
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
True confessions. The heel of my hand rests on the tailpiece, sometimes even on the bridge.
I know, I'm a bad person! (But I keep my fingers to myself)
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by grego
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
I thinkI've only ever met one mandolin player whose right hand does not touch the instrument at all while playing. This particular Player has the ability to attack the strings with remarkable precision from a great distance. I cannot say I have payed a great deal of attention to the right hand technique of other players, but I have observed both the fist-with-heel-of-palm-resting-behind-bridge approach and the forefinger-and-thumb-hold-with-other-fingers resting on-soundboard (or pickgaurd). I fall ointo the first category. I find I need to use three fingers (thumb, middle and forefinger) to hold the plectrum, in order to get enough attack and to avoid dropping it. But i often find my6 hand becoming tense - something I need to work on.
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by granama
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
I tend to say you should do whatever helps you play, as long as you're not introducing unnecessary tension. I've seen plenty of pickers who have excellent control without propping or brushing anywhere, but not all of us have the anatomy, musculature, etc. to do that. The original basis for the taboo was probably to avoid damping the sound of the instrument. That's a noble goal, but wouldn't you rather damp the sound slightly than not play at all?
Spoon's comment reminds me that I used to see guitar and mando players swinging at the strings from six inches away, on the down stroke, and sounding great. I never understood the rationale for it and I haven't seen it in a long time.
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
i tend to rest my wrist slightly on the bridge (of mandolin) or on the strings below it (nearer the tailpiece than the fretboard if you understand). this is the only way i can paly smoothly. you'd be using your wrist alot more this way and it doesn't dampen the sound all that much. my teacher doesn't agree. whatever feels comfortable would be my advice.
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by nils petersen
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
I'm going through this battle at the moment. Coming from a guitar background where I was taught to keep my hand just behind the bridge when playing fingerstyle so as to have a "reference point"........when playing the mandolin i find myself either resting my right hand just behind the bridge or else resting my little finger on the scratch plate. I am only playing the mandolin a few months and would like to get this sorted so I don't have to undo bad habits down the line. I'd imagine that there has to be contact somwhere to allow smooth playing without having to look at the strings?!? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by ireland78
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
I got one of these mandolin armrests http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Hardware,_parts/Mandolin:_Armrest/Mandolin_Armrest.html and it certainly helps a lot (ordered it from the UK with a few other things) Raises the arm off the soundboard slightly (though it could have been made a little higher). There are others on the market - the ones shown here look good: http://www.kingbrownhandcrafts.com/mandolin.html
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by RichardB
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
I guess most of us are forever chopping and changing our plectrum grips and right hand positions whilst practicing. Well I definitely do. I remember a time when my wee finger, in an open position, used to touch the banjo head but I got out of that habit on good advice received and watching others play. My right arm, about two inches above the wrist, touches the arm rest but not firmly anchored while my fingers, other than the index, are in a semi-clenched fist. I try to keep them off the bridge and strings behind but I often brush them with third and wee fingers. But that wee fault aside, I'm content for now with the way my right hand is functioning.
My playing came on leaps and bounds when I ceased allowing my wee finger touch the banjo head.
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by Strathfoyle
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
If you watch good banjo and mandolin players, you will see that they have varying styles as far as the non grip fingers go. Some use the fingers to orient themselves by brushing the head, bridge and strings, others keep their fingers close up and may use the wrist against the bridge for the same purpose. Or all the above. To me it is a matter of taste and anatomy, open fingers often indicate a relaxed hand.
What you won't see better players do is anchor their fingers on the head of the banjo or the body of the mandolin.
Your right hand and arm (assuming you play right handed) should be relaxed but there has to be an anchor somewhere for consistency and the forearm above the wrist is probably the best place for both mandolin and banjo. I use the armrest placed all the way down to the tension ring on a banjo and have armrests on all my mandolins. That way I have the best angle for my hand with each instrument and am able to have a relaxed stroke. I touch the bridge on both instruments (make sure that you soften the edges of the bridge or you will have a painful experience) with my wrist but not anchor the hand there or it will effect the sound of the instrument. I also use my fingers to orient on the head and the strings.
If you are trying to get the best sound from your instrument you will be moving up and down the "sweet spot" (the area from the bridge to the neck that sound best) which requires that your wrist be free to move and you should be using a wrist stroke for a consistent and good sounding tone. In addition, if you want to make the treble/triplet ornament with either of the two regular techniques, your wrist has to be free.
You can't have a relaxed arm/wrist/hand if you keep it suspended above the instrument as you will tire out too quickly. One of the best ways to see good technique is to watch videos of good mandolin players no matter what genre they play. My best teacher for this was Roland White who spent several hours in a class last year just dealing with this. I will be seeing Andy Statman this weekend who is teaching a similar course in Madison.
You want to develop a relaxed consistent right hand that produces the best tone for your instrument. Once you have that, you can do almost anything you want at almost any speed (depending on your talent level, of course) but it takes a while to do this and a teacher is very helpful during this period of development and afterwards to keep you consistent. There are a lot of subtleties to the right hand and there is no absolute right way to do it, but there are some principles that seem to carry over from all styles, relaxation and consistency being two of the most important ones for developing good tone.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
At one stage in my playing I used to put massage oil ( well almond oil and the like ) on the head of the banjo where my 3 non-plectrum gripping fingers rested. The idea was that any amount of pressure and therefore friction/resistance on the head was negated. This in turn lead to a smooth action and gave a strong feeling of orientation. Ive managed to give up the oil and now try and touch the head as lightly as possible but during the course of a tune the pressure builds and builds. I can float the hand now but only play slowly. Maybe I'll try fingerpicks. Naaah, that would be ridiculous!!
# Posted on February 1st 2007 by Newty
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
If you go to http://www.mandolinsessions.com and check out the interview with Roger Landes, you will see a few videos on how he uses his right hand including a lesson on triplets.
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
Yes, Mike, I've enjoyed your banjo sessions and the mandolin sessions for some time. It's very good of you to spread the word, and I really enjoyed the stuff you got from Mick Moloney. I always enjoyed Irish music, but it was seeing him live that made me want to play it.
I'm comfortable with my technique, but I was recently scolded for doing it "wrong" by another mandolin player. Having tried several approaches and finding the one I currently use to be most comfortable, I was curious to see what others are using.
I'm curious about the mandolin armrest. I worry about attaching anything to my baby, though...
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by TaoCat
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
I used to anchor my pinky on the banjo head, but that has evolved into more of a light brushing. I don't like playing banjos without an armrest, and the palm of my hand touches the bridge lightly.
I use the muting factor of these things to my advantage from time to time to add a of another dynamic to the sound.
Actually, my Paramount has a factory installed mute! I can't think of a reason to use it, other than for making people laugh at sessions. The banjo sounds so hilarious with the mute on (go ahead... bring on the jokes... I can take it)
Pete
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Mandolin & banjo right hand
Armrests attach to a mandolin with the same hardware that a chin rest attaches to a violin(the exception is here http://www.soundtoearth.com/prod_armrest.htm ). I have a varnished mandolin and I am sure that I am leaving a little mark on the top and bottom of my instrument, but the gains are worth it. For one thing, I no longer attack the finish with my sweat, but more importantly I have a better angle of attack with my right hand and am able to relax more.
Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives/faq.html#armrest) is a good description of how an arm rest works and some sources. I use the Siren Works arm rest, but the others are worth getting too.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by mikeyes