Hello all…. Recently I have been having real problems with my right hand, before I could relax with it, do triplets with ease and play with speed. Ever since I started doing some studio work however I have become over conscious about every aspect of my banjo playing because I wanted to get a real good sound. I think this has led me into some unforced habits which I cant shake myself out of and get back to how I used to play. I find that the bridge is digging into my right hand and the corner of the bridge is actually cutting my hand(I don’t know whether this is because of the bridge or where I rest my arm), the plectrum feels uncomfortable and triplets are a real effort. Over the whole tune because my wrist just wont relax itself. I’ve told myself relax, get plectrum positioning right don’t grip to tight but every now and then I trip over the strings and my hands turn to iron as the tune goes on. Im beginning to think somewhere along the line my entire approach to playing my banjo changed and led me down a wrong route.
Here is a video of my right hand technique, yes I know it seems pretty good and I chuck in a bit of cross picking here and there but keep your ears peeled for the triplets and how I trip up on them sometimes (especially one right at the end of the tune in which I completely trip up on)
I just cant seem to remember how I used to play and what routines I used to employ to get a relaxed banjo technique. I think the best thing for me is just have fun with the music again and wait for a naturalistic style to come back, then try and go back to the studio and have fun!.
Can any one tell me is there something unusual about my right hand or technique or as a matter of fact where my banjo is sitting.
Cheers.
Stacey McMullen
Sorry the vid and sound quality is so shite but it was done on a crappy dig cam
p.s the tune is Josie McDermott’s I think
Hard to tell from video quality. Sound is good but seems "tight"--eg, to be proceeding from a "tight" wrist. My own experience and observation suggests that pain is a result of tension; that tension results from trying to play a little too fast or with damaging technique; that damaging technique results from doing some that's muscularly or orthopedically "not right." Typically, in flatpicking, this pain--tension--damaging technique continuum results from somehow anchoring the hand or wrist such that the joints can't move freely and naturally.
You mention that the side of the tailpiece and/or pickguard are "digging into" your hand. This suggests to me that you are resting that portion of your hand/wrist pretty solidly--maybe even pressing into--those parts of the banjo. When I have seen my students doing that, it typically means that the point of contact is *also* a source of tension. The plectrum players I've heard who sound most relaxed, most facile, and have the best time are typically those players whose hand/wrist floats over or at most brushes lightly against the face of the instrument.
This permits the wrist to swing back and forth very freely, gently, and w/ maximal relaxation. I think, therefore, that you've perhaps fallen into the habit of resting the hand or wrist too solidly upon the face of the instrument--probably in trying to play a little faster than is comfortable, and that this has led to the damaging technique--tension--pain continuum I've cited above.
I have some exercises at the following site which might help you "re-learn" or at least develop some alternatives in right-hand technique. Many of these exercises originate in work I've done with guitarist Dean Magraw of Minneapolis, USA, an astonishing virtuoso who works with box/concertina player John Williams.
Disclaimer: I'm no virtuoso--but I've been playing tenor banjo for 30 years, have taught a lot of people, and I've never had playing-related injuries. So to some extent, at least, the method can be concluded to be reasonably sound.
i tottaly agree i used to be so more relaxed, my hand used to just float and the sound was so much brighter, its true ive never had a lesson so ive never been shown the "proper way "as such. My entire playing just feels uncomfortable and now my hand just freezes from here to there, I did decide to just take a break for a couple of weeks to get myself relaxed but i cant resist the temptation lol. The more i try to rest lighlty the more it just sorta forces it down as the tune goes on. I think the best way is relax and play more moderately untill the natural essence is back in my playing. ill check out the excercises cheers.
You could check two things:
1. First joint of your thumb - make sure it is not flexed, but relaxed. If that gives you a flatter attack, it will brighten the sound.
2. If you pull your elbow back - closer to your side - that would elevate your hand and let it float more. That could also brighten the sound. Overall, it might feel more relaxed, too.
by the thumb not being flexed do you mean anchored and bent? because i do bend my thumb when holding the plec, should the thumb just rest flat across the pick?
That advice obeys a general truth - unnecessary tension will often limit your mobility in unintended ways. In this case, flexing your thumb can limit the mobility of your wrist. I don't suggest you arch your thumb back, but position the pick so that your thumb is relaxed, and that should imply 'fairly flat.' The advice itself came from my teacher many years ago.
Your own advice about playing more moderately for awhile is very good advice...give you time to think about the "unnecessary tension" things that are going on. Good luck. Nice playing.
Kidding aside, I would recommend putting an armrest on that banjo of yours as it may help you to achieve some of Dr. Smith's useful suggestions. I picked up a throwaway armrest from the local music shop (for pocket change) and put it on my old Slingerland. A lot of tension went away and my hand barely made contact with the bridge after that. The armrest is only about a half inch above the skin, but all of the angles changed and it helped a lot. The point of contact btw the wrist and banjo head also changed slightly and put a lot less pressure on the musculature, which in turn helped relax the rest of the arm. I also played around with strap positions to help relieve tension on the L shoulder which helped too...
I'm right here, but I think that Chris nailed it, tense hand and some problems with finding a relaxed posture of hand and body.
It is difficult to tell what is going in given the quality of the video, but it looks like your shoulder and arm are tense in order to support your hand. I like the idea of getting an armrest which is all the way down to the tension hoop and resting the forearm or wrist on it to alleviate that problem.
Barney McKenna and John Carty play with a bent thumb without much problem, but you can't use the combination of finger and wrist movement (I call it the McTwist after Mick Moloney who showed it to me and others) treble/triplet technique with that particular thumb style.
Stacey,
Some of your problem may be due to not relaxing properly. A good relaxed right hand has a minimal grip that is ergonomically correct (meaning it does not fly out of your hand), a loose quick wrist, forearm and shoulder, and you should be able to do both wrist trebles/triplets and the McTwist as you need it. I suspect that you are tensing up due to your starting to record and the need for speed which not only effects those muscles you use for your wrist stroke, but those that oppose it with a net result of slowing down or freezing up.
I'd check to see if you have a tense shoulder and arm when you play and maybe move your elbow in a little to be supported by your body. Also check your posture to see if you are holding the banjo at an angle conducive to good playing and if you are sitting up straight as Sister Mary Philomena told you to do in grade school. That helps a lot.
I think that the clue here is that all of this started after you were more or less forced to hear yourself and you became more tense as a result. In the long run, this is a good thing because it means that you are perfectionistic and want to improve, but the anxiety that this type of problem always engenders in perfectionistic workaholics (which is what you have to be if you want to succeed in almost anything) can trip you up until you learn to be more efficient and concise. A good teacher will help with this.
Just ask Tiger Woods. He employs a full time coach and trainer just to keep him at the peak of his game. Talent only takes you so far and the rest is work; work that is based on analysis and goal setting. I'm sure that Tiger could do well without all of his support, but he would not be winning 7 in a row the way he did yesterday.
I think you have a very solvable problem, you are too tense by your own analysis, so you have to learn how to deal with it. Learning basic relaxation exercises will help in that you can identify what is going on a little better by surveying your muscle tone. Refining your technique with the help of a teacher/coach will advance it faster. You seem to have a good musical stroke but it gets stymied by tension in your hand, arm and probably the shoulder.
Better video would help too <G>
Mike Keyes
http:/www.mikekeyes.com
http:/www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com (and look for the Mental Training column.)
Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Hello all…. Recently I have been having real problems with my right hand, before I could relax with it, do triplets with ease and play with speed. Ever since I started doing some studio work however I have become over conscious about every aspect of my banjo playing because I wanted to get a real good sound. I think this has led me into some unforced habits which I cant shake myself out of and get back to how I used to play. I find that the bridge is digging into my right hand and the corner of the bridge is actually cutting my hand(I don’t know whether this is because of the bridge or where I rest my arm), the plectrum feels uncomfortable and triplets are a real effort. Over the whole tune because my wrist just wont relax itself. I’ve told myself relax, get plectrum positioning right don’t grip to tight but every now and then I trip over the strings and my hands turn to iron as the tune goes on. Im beginning to think somewhere along the line my entire approach to playing my banjo changed and led me down a wrong route.
Here is a video of my right hand technique, yes I know it seems pretty good and I chuck in a bit of cross picking here and there but keep your ears peeled for the triplets and how I trip up on them sometimes (especially one right at the end of the tune in which I completely trip up on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf33-vg3g6U
I just cant seem to remember how I used to play and what routines I used to employ to get a relaxed banjo technique. I think the best thing for me is just have fun with the music again and wait for a naturalistic style to come back, then try and go back to the studio and have fun!.
Can any one tell me is there something unusual about my right hand or technique or as a matter of fact where my banjo is sitting.
Cheers.
Stacey McMullen
Sorry the vid and sound quality is so shite but it was done on a crappy dig cam
p.s the tune is Josie McDermott’s I think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf33-vg3g6U
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by S.McMullen
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
o and theres a weird delay right at the end
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by S.McMullen
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Hard to tell from video quality. Sound is good but seems "tight"--eg, to be proceeding from a "tight" wrist. My own experience and observation suggests that pain is a result of tension; that tension results from trying to play a little too fast or with damaging technique; that damaging technique results from doing some that's muscularly or orthopedically "not right." Typically, in flatpicking, this pain--tension--damaging technique continuum results from somehow anchoring the hand or wrist such that the joints can't move freely and naturally.
You mention that the side of the tailpiece and/or pickguard are "digging into" your hand. This suggests to me that you are resting that portion of your hand/wrist pretty solidly--maybe even pressing into--those parts of the banjo. When I have seen my students doing that, it typically means that the point of contact is *also* a source of tension. The plectrum players I've heard who sound most relaxed, most facile, and have the best time are typically those players whose hand/wrist floats over or at most brushes lightly against the face of the instrument.
This permits the wrist to swing back and forth very freely, gently, and w/ maximal relaxation. I think, therefore, that you've perhaps fallen into the habit of resting the hand or wrist too solidly upon the face of the instrument--probably in trying to play a little faster than is comfortable, and that this has led to the damaging technique--tension--pain continuum I've cited above.
I have some exercises at the following site which might help you "re-learn" or at least develop some alternatives in right-hand technique. Many of these exercises originate in work I've done with guitarist Dean Magraw of Minneapolis, USA, an astonishing virtuoso who works with box/concertina player John Williams.
instructional material and sound clips: http://coyotebanjo.com/music.html (scroll down)
Disclaimer: I'm no virtuoso--but I've been playing tenor banjo for 30 years, have taught a lot of people, and I've never had playing-related injuries. So to some extent, at least, the method can be concluded to be reasonably sound.
cjs
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by coyotebanjo
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
i tottaly agree i used to be so more relaxed, my hand used to just float and the sound was so much brighter, its true ive never had a lesson so ive never been shown the "proper way "as such. My entire playing just feels uncomfortable and now my hand just freezes from here to there, I did decide to just take a break for a couple of weeks to get myself relaxed but i cant resist the temptation lol. The more i try to rest lighlty the more it just sorta forces it down as the tune goes on. I think the best way is relax and play more moderately untill the natural essence is back in my playing. ill check out the excercises cheers.
cheers
stacey
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by S.McMullen
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
You could check two things:
1. First joint of your thumb - make sure it is not flexed, but relaxed. If that gives you a flatter attack, it will brighten the sound.
2. If you pull your elbow back - closer to your side - that would elevate your hand and let it float more. That could also brighten the sound. Overall, it might feel more relaxed, too.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by BarryM
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
by the thumb not being flexed do you mean anchored and bent? because i do bend my thumb when holding the plec, should the thumb just rest flat across the pick?
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by S.McMullen
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
That advice obeys a general truth - unnecessary tension will often limit your mobility in unintended ways. In this case, flexing your thumb can limit the mobility of your wrist. I don't suggest you arch your thumb back, but position the pick so that your thumb is relaxed, and that should imply 'fairly flat.' The advice itself came from my teacher many years ago.
Your own advice about playing more moderately for awhile is very good advice...give you time to think about the "unnecessary tension" things that are going on. Good luck. Nice playing.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by BarryM
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Gee Stacey - I wish I had your playing problems!
Kidding aside, I would recommend putting an armrest on that banjo of yours as it may help you to achieve some of Dr. Smith's useful suggestions. I picked up a throwaway armrest from the local music shop (for pocket change) and put it on my old Slingerland. A lot of tension went away and my hand barely made contact with the bridge after that. The armrest is only about a half inch above the skin, but all of the angles changed and it helped a lot. The point of contact btw the wrist and banjo head also changed slightly and put a lot less pressure on the musculature, which in turn helped relax the rest of the arm. I also played around with strap positions to help relieve tension on the L shoulder which helped too...
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by octogreg
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Where's Mike Keyes these days?
He used to be the resident expert on banjo playing.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by dogbox
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
I'm right here, but I think that Chris nailed it, tense hand and some problems with finding a relaxed posture of hand and body.
It is difficult to tell what is going in given the quality of the video, but it looks like your shoulder and arm are tense in order to support your hand. I like the idea of getting an armrest which is all the way down to the tension hoop and resting the forearm or wrist on it to alleviate that problem.
Barney McKenna and John Carty play with a bent thumb without much problem, but you can't use the combination of finger and wrist movement (I call it the McTwist after Mick Moloney who showed it to me and others) treble/triplet technique with that particular thumb style.
Stacey,
Some of your problem may be due to not relaxing properly. A good relaxed right hand has a minimal grip that is ergonomically correct (meaning it does not fly out of your hand), a loose quick wrist, forearm and shoulder, and you should be able to do both wrist trebles/triplets and the McTwist as you need it. I suspect that you are tensing up due to your starting to record and the need for speed which not only effects those muscles you use for your wrist stroke, but those that oppose it with a net result of slowing down or freezing up.
I'd check to see if you have a tense shoulder and arm when you play and maybe move your elbow in a little to be supported by your body. Also check your posture to see if you are holding the banjo at an angle conducive to good playing and if you are sitting up straight as Sister Mary Philomena told you to do in grade school. That helps a lot.
I think that the clue here is that all of this started after you were more or less forced to hear yourself and you became more tense as a result. In the long run, this is a good thing because it means that you are perfectionistic and want to improve, but the anxiety that this type of problem always engenders in perfectionistic workaholics (which is what you have to be if you want to succeed in almost anything) can trip you up until you learn to be more efficient and concise. A good teacher will help with this.
Just ask Tiger Woods. He employs a full time coach and trainer just to keep him at the peak of his game. Talent only takes you so far and the rest is work; work that is based on analysis and goal setting. I'm sure that Tiger could do well without all of his support, but he would not be winning 7 in a row the way he did yesterday.
I think you have a very solvable problem, you are too tense by your own analysis, so you have to learn how to deal with it. Learning basic relaxation exercises will help in that you can identify what is going on a little better by surveying your muscle tone. Refining your technique with the help of a teacher/coach will advance it faster. You seem to have a good musical stroke but it gets stymied by tension in your hand, arm and probably the shoulder.
Better video would help too <G>
Mike Keyes
http:/www.mikekeyes.com
http:/www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com (and look for the Mental Training column.)
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
That's
http://www.mikekeyes.com
http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com
http://www.banjosessions.com
My publishers will kill me if I don't get it right <G>
Mike Keyes
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
Cheers guys ive tried some stuff out and it seems everything is becoming more natural.
However what do you mean by the mctwist effect im interested about this techinque?
as for my thumb i really cant hold it flat against the pick it seems really uncomfortable.
cheers
stacey
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by S.McMullen
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
and i doubt ill be able to "just ask tiger woods" lol sorry for sarcasm only joking
cheers again really good advice
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by S.McMullen
Re: Tenor banjo my right hand technique
I had no idea Tiger played tenor banjo. 7 time All Ireland, is it?
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by BarryM