Hi
I've been playing the concert flute for a little while now and also love the warm sound of the Irish flute. I was wondering where I could go for an inexpensive Irish flute in the Washington DC area. What should I look for? What's the difference between 6-key, 1-key, and 0-key flutes as far as quality? And what about the kind of wood used? Rosewood vs Black wood, etc. Can someone help me? Go raibh maith agat.
Hi Gina-
As for as quality goes, the keys don't really contribute to that, they just make it possible to play notes outside the range of the D scale. If you are playing concert music with it, and will be playing in multiple keys, then you should get one with keys. If you intend to play Irish music, which is mainly in the key of D or G, and their relative minors, then keys aren't really necessary. If you are looking for a wooden flute, they can be pretty pricey. If you're using it as a secondary flut, you might consider getting a delrin or pvc flute. I just ordered a pvc flute from Doug Tipple. I haven't received it yet, but have heard good things about them. For the flute and shipping it came out to $97. I'll let you know how it is when I get it. His website is www.dougsflutes.googlepages.com. good luck!
rob
How much money are you able to spend? That will really help with recommendations. The vast majority of the flutes that are really cheap are made in Pakistan...and many are totally unplayable so not work the risk. There are good lower priced flutes, but as I already mentioned - knowing your price range will help us give good advice.
I recently bought a polymer flute from M&E (Michael & Evelyn Cronnolly) http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/index.htm and it is excellent (though I can't play it very well myself yet!). It has no keys but as rob says I won't really need them. The fingering is pretty much the same as a D whistle. It's good and loud, and at first glance looks like blackwood.
As Eric says though, some idea of how much you want to spend will help.
There are a lot of sessions in the DC area - I would check them out and talk to people (other flute players) directly, if you can.
If you want to jump to the front of the line and buy local, Patrick Olwell (Nellysford, VA) makes premier Irish flutes running around $1400 or so for a keyless. Is this the price of a mid-grade Boehm from, say, Yamaha?
I don't have an Olwell, but they are popular for a reason.
I must stick my nose in this one. been there. worm has excellent advice. find sessions and/or organizations that promote Irish traditional music. ask for help, they will be more than willing.
I also am long time with silver flute. (50) years. I also play the simple system D. A Burns folk flute was my first and It proved to be a good choice for me to learn on. Forget the keys, you don't need them. If you get outside G or D you will take out your boehm. You will find the holes in the pvc flutes are too far apart, especially if you play with offset g. The conical bore flutes are more expensive but the holes are easier to manage. If you are playing with closed holes you will have some bad habits to break anyway. Do not be tempted by the pakistani junk. See chiff and fipple page for details on that and lot of other good info. last but not least -- it is ok to play silver flute at Irish sessions if you are good --very good. In the US lot of people do because that is what we were given to play as children. I take both. I love the sound of the wood and it is great for ITM but I can do so much more with the other and I have a wood head joint so the sound is very close.
I'm hoping to start with mostly traditional Irish music. Everything els I can do with my silver flute. As for price range, between $100 and $250. I might go higher if I'm assured it's worth it. My boehm is open hole with offset G.
Are there fingering charts? Or is it sorta like the pennywhistle?
Another fluteplayer here. I would also recommend a keyless delrin flute made by M&E. According to their website, the price is 395 $. It's a fine instrument, easy to play, nice tone, and unbreakable. The fingering is the same as on the whistle.
Hi Gina, I live in DC area and play whistle and flute. As you may know, there are an almost overwhelming number of players in this town who play flutes made by Pat Olwell. I would in any case recommend Olwell's keyless flute to you without hesitation (i recommend his keyed flutes too, but it takes 7-10 years to get one.) Olwell flutes are not the cheapest, but in the scheme of things they're really affordable especially given what you get (the best).
I have an olwell keyed flute, and if you'd like to try it drop me a line thru this site and we can make arrangements to meet and talk "flute shop" and can test it out for yourself. There are other options out there too, and I can tell you about those too.
Yup some nail it down and Jehanna is dead on target.
I make PVC flutes for fun and can tell you that the reach on the D stick might be too far for most hands - mine are very big !-. So the Casey Burns has my approval right off the bat.
Not there is anything wrong with M&E just the higher price, and knowing had I my own workshop and tools I could knock out simple Irish flutes of local woods here at 50-75 US dollars a pop and make a good profit.
As it is I make a diatonic tuned G folk flute from schedual 40 domestic water pipe for 3 bucks a pop.
So I think some makers are gouging more than hardwood these days... lol.
At the price you mention, get one with very few keys. Of course you can get away with no keys, though some are indeed useful for Irish music: Cnat, Fnat and Aflat and Bflat in particular. The thing is, however, that in a new flute of any quality, the price difference for each key is quite significant - Hammy Hamilton's list, for instance, works out at about $350 or $400 for each extra key, and his flutes are, although top class, not stratospheric - he wants a bit under $1000 for a keyless.
It follows that in the low-price range, you can expect the keys to be more trouble than they are worth, but the carefully chosen keyless body may be quite workable.
OK. So that leaves one last question. Where to look? I know I'm looking for a keyless D flute. There is House of musical traditions in Takoma Park. Anywhere else?
I understand your reluctance to buy online, but M&E flutes (for example - I'm sure any other reputable makers would be the same) state on their website that if you're not happy send it back for a full refund.
If you make sure before parting with the cash that the maker you're thinking of buying from has the same deal then you'd be safe - it may just take a little time but you should end up with the right flute for you in the end.
I based my choice on a lot of research and particularly one thread that I started here - "Help me choose a flute" on Dec 12th 06. No sense in re-inventing the wheel...
Buy the Casey Burns folk flute at that price. It's a real flute made of wood. And it sounds like it. At least the one does that I recenty bought as a "travel flute" for when I don't want to take several thousand euros of other flute with me. I am still in shock at how good it is for the price he charges. However if you don't want wood and its attendant care issues then people seem to have good opinions of the M&E too.
One niggle, he doesn't put any rings on this flute to reinforce the socket at thte head - instead he makes the head relatively thick for strength. I reinforced the head socket with a winding of fishing line (any other thin strong non-water-absorbing thread would probably have done too..). Probably paranoia on my part, but it's removable and helps my peace of mind.
I have no connection to Casey Burns other than owning two of his flutes.
I am also a long-time concert flute player who more recently delved into Irish flute. I have a Standard keyless flute in mopane wood by Casey Burns and I absolutely love it! I paid $450 and the wait was not very long (I was lucky enough to get my order in toward the end of a group that he already had in production, and they were close to completion). I also design and build flutes from pvc and bamboo. It is true that the cylindrical bore makes the right hand holes a bit harder to reach, but I have average to small sized hands, and I can manage it. I did make the switch to a 'piper's grip' on my right hand though (which takes a lot of discipline to learn if you've been playing concert flute for a long time, but it is definitely worth the struggle). If you want to check out my flutes there are descriptions, photos, sound samples, and prices on my web site at http://www.theburnfieldcastle.com/flutes . I used my prototype clear flute as a session flute until I was able to get my Casey Burns. I still bring at least one with me to local sessions. It makes a good "lay it down anywhere" and "pick it up anytime" flute. Good luck on your search for an instrument and have fun getting into Irish music, I sure did!
A few notes about keyed flutes: Back in the day, keyed flutes were the only way to go because there were NO keyless flutes that were not Baroque flutes, which you definitley don't want. When good wooden flutes became scarce, makers started making "Irish Flutes," which were modeled after the 8-key flutes of the late 19th Century, minus the keys, because for Irish music you don't need them.
I was lucky enough to get a very fine flute made around 1885 that is in nearly perfect condition. I do use the keys, and am very glad I have the instrument, but I also have two Casey Burns keyless flutes that I would never part with.
My advice is to get a flute that has a metal-lined head and barrel joint. This has a large affect on the sound, power, and volume, and all 8-keyed flutes had them. A head joint that is all wood won't play as well IMO. What makes an Irish flute sound like an Irish flute is not the head joint being made of wood (since the original ones weren't), but the size of the tone holes and the bore, and the conical (versus cylindrical) design.
An additional advantage in gettng a flute with a metal-lined headjoint is the knowledge that the maker has the skill to do it. Anyone can essentially make a tube with holes in it. If he or she has taken the time to make the flute properly, it's a good bet it will be a decent flute, although I strongly recommend you try before you buy, or bring someone with knowledge who can evalutate the instrument for you.
Just in case of confusion it may be worth pointing out that polymer flutes like the one I have are not the same as PVC pipe flutes.
I'm not an expert on this by any means (understatement ) but I believe my M&E flute is machined from solid stock, and it certainly has a tapered bore, so its construction is very similar if not identical to a 'traditional' wooden flute, with similar distances on the finger holes.
Not that I'm knocking the parallel bore pipes at all - I've not tried them but people write good things about them all the time (I very nearly went that route myself). It was really on the question of finger spacing that I thought there might be some confusion.
Yes, Ailin and Rhod are correct regarding cylindrical bore flutes (whether they be made from pvc, copper, bamboo, or anything else). The tonal characteristics are different than a conical bore. And they are also correct about the finger spacing issues (mostly on the right hand and especially the lowest hole). I have found that the thicker walls of the flutes that I have made from schedule 80 pipe mellow the sound considerably from the similarly bored copper flutes that I have made. The main difference between conical bore and cylindrical bore flutes, in my experience, is the power and ease of playing the lower register notes (especially the low D), and the overall tone and volume of the instrument. Still, you can't beat a nearly indestructable, decent playing, pvc flute for the price!
Also, I've read great things about Doug Tipple's flutes and a special 'wedge' that he makes that tapers the bore somewhat, and is said to help both the intonation and response of the instrument. Several people who have tried it say that it works great. I've not personally tried his flutes (since I make my own), but he has a very good reputation on several of the flute and whistle forums.
Responding to Alinin's discussion of metal lined head joints, the main effect that the metal lining has on the flute's tonal characteristics is that of allowing tuneability without creating a gross disruption to the bore as would be caused by simply pulling out a tenon joint. The metal tuning slide is very thin which minimizes the space left in the bore when the head joint is pulled out. The relativiey large space left inside the bore when pulling out a tenon joint (which is fairly thick) will have major effects on the tunning of the higher order harmonics, tending to throw some of the second octave notes out of tune. I don't know that the metal lining would really affect the overall tone a great deal (though it is probably detectable to a discerning player).
Hey ggamaba1980, I don't know how ambitious you are, but I found a site earlier today on how to make your own flute. http://www.cwo.com/~ph_kosel/designs.html
Good luck!
Just a comment on the fully metal lined headjoints...not all good flutes have these. Even if a flute has a tuning slide, it can be a partial slide (in the headjoint) like Seery, McGee and Hamilton make (among others).
So, a fully lined headjoint isn't a requirement and doesn't impact tone that much IMHO.
An argument can definitely be made that an unlined headjoint sounds warmer, I wanted to make the point that it is not "traditional" in that all 8-key flutes have a lined head. Every unlined head I've played, including my own Casey Burns', has less volume and "punch." My lined Casey Burns and vintage 8-key both sound stronger. Ultimately, you go with the flute you prefer, but I wanted to bring up the subject of lined head joints because it is a consideration, and at the very least, merits discussion.
Ailin's observations make sense from an acoustics standpoint. The "punch" and volume that he is speaking of on the flutes with lined heads is most likely due to the efficiency of the dense metal lining at reflecting sound waves and supporting resonance with very little loss of energy. The unlined heads will tend to have a "darker" "warmer" sound precisely due to a little more energy loss in the softer, (and most likely) rougher walls.
Gina, you might be able to find a good flute at HMT in Takoma Park, but there's no guarantee. They don't normally have a lot of Irish flutes in stock there, but occasionally folks have gotten lucky. In fact, someone I know just happened to walk in there one day a few years ago to find an Olwell for sale, which she immediately bought. And I bought my first flute there, an early Casey Burns model. But that was in 1988. If I was looking for a new flute today, I'd be looking online (eBay, dealers like this guy Doc Jones out in Iowa, etc) rather than in a store.
If you are looking to try before you buy, as Brendan said above there are a good few flute players in DC, and some of them (unlike Brendan, who needs to get out more :->) even come to sessions. It's true that many of us play Olwells, but there are other flutes represented here too. And most of us have played a range of flutes and know what's good and what's not. So if you came out to a session and asked kindly you could probably try out a couple of different flutes and get opinions from several flute players on what's available out there. There are sessions in DC on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday every week, and in Baltimore on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Some of them may be listed on this site, but probably not all of them. But if you want to send me an e-mail via this site I'll be glad to give you the details on where they are.
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I myself have been looking at getting one of Doug Tipple's flutes. I've heard very good things. However, I have absolutely no experience or knowledge of flutes. I am pretty decent on the whistle. The only problem is that I taught myself it and learnt backwards or reverse hand positioning. If I want to learn the flute and stay with the fingering I use on the whistle, what does this mean? Is there such a thing as a left-handed flute or what have you?
Jeff Whittier makes fantastic bamboo flutes also called bansuri. The fingering is the same as the six holed whistle/folk flute with an extra seventh hole for the right pinky (ti.) Tone, pitch and durablity are perfect as one can expect in a wooden flute. Price for a D is $130.00 and that includes shipping. Bear in mind I am a heretical jazzer, salsa/classical styled Boehm loving ITM flautist so my requirements and inclinations are more flexible than some. Jeff will answer his phone which is 650-858-0117. The flutes are not tunable but they are so well in tune everyone should/will tune to you.
I don't want to diss a flute I haven't played, and I have played some remarkable bamboo flutes, but let me throw out a few cautions: The bore size of a bamboo flute is from the natural bamboo, and thus lacks precision. Flutes are best made from a dense material, which bamboo is not. You could probably track down a good used keyless wooden flute (or even polymer) for $130, which would be a better investment for ITM than bamboo by far. If you can try a bamboo flute and find that it meets your needs, the foregoing is null and void, but be warned.
Null and void yes. There are arguments against all the points made above. But if you want to spend $800 up for a comparable or even inferior instrument.........
Just to clarify: I am not saying that all bamboo flutes are superior or even of good quality. In fact most are not. However Jeff Whittier ha been making flutes for over 30 years. And if you Google him you can see that he is one of the most qualified makers of bamboo (or possibly any variety of wooden flute) in the US of A. Enuff said.
Itrane,
I'm as left-handed as they come but I've never heard of changing the hands around on a flute. What's the advantage? I don't get it.
True, I pick up a fork with my left hand and write with it, of course, but even as a child i discovered it was to my advantage to bat a ball "right" handed. I use my right arm for strength, my left for precision. So i guess I steered the bat from my left hand. Wouldn't know anymore - always disliked baseball anyway.
Irish flutes
Irish flutes
Hi
I've been playing the concert flute for a little while now and also love the warm sound of the Irish flute. I was wondering where I could go for an inexpensive Irish flute in the Washington DC area. What should I look for? What's the difference between 6-key, 1-key, and 0-key flutes as far as quality? And what about the kind of wood used? Rosewood vs Black wood, etc. Can someone help me? Go raibh maith agat.
Gina
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by ggamba1980
Re: Irish flutes
Hi Gina-
As for as quality goes, the keys don't really contribute to that, they just make it possible to play notes outside the range of the D scale. If you are playing concert music with it, and will be playing in multiple keys, then you should get one with keys. If you intend to play Irish music, which is mainly in the key of D or G, and their relative minors, then keys aren't really necessary. If you are looking for a wooden flute, they can be pretty pricey. If you're using it as a secondary flut, you might consider getting a delrin or pvc flute. I just ordered a pvc flute from Doug Tipple. I haven't received it yet, but have heard good things about them. For the flute and shipping it came out to $97. I'll let you know how it is when I get it. His website is www.dougsflutes.googlepages.com. good luck!
rob
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Irish flutes
How much money are you able to spend? That will really help with recommendations. The vast majority of the flutes that are really cheap are made in Pakistan...and many are totally unplayable so not work the risk. There are good lower priced flutes, but as I already mentioned - knowing your price range will help us give good advice.
Eric
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Irish flutes
I recently bought a polymer flute from M&E (Michael & Evelyn Cronnolly) http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/index.htm and it is excellent (though I can't play it very well myself yet!). It has no keys but as rob says I won't really need them. The fingering is pretty much the same as a D whistle. It's good and loud, and at first glance looks like blackwood.
As Eric says though, some idea of how much you want to spend will help.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by Rhod
Re: Irish flutes
There are a lot of sessions in the DC area - I would check them out and talk to people (other flute players) directly, if you can.
If you want to jump to the front of the line and buy local, Patrick Olwell (Nellysford, VA) makes premier Irish flutes running around $1400 or so for a keyless. Is this the price of a mid-grade Boehm from, say, Yamaha?
I don't have an Olwell, but they are popular for a reason.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by wormdiet
Re: Irish flutes
I must stick my nose in this one. been there. worm has excellent advice. find sessions and/or organizations that promote Irish traditional music. ask for help, they will be more than willing.
I also am long time with silver flute. (50) years. I also play the simple system D. A Burns folk flute was my first and It proved to be a good choice for me to learn on. Forget the keys, you don't need them. If you get outside G or D you will take out your boehm. You will find the holes in the pvc flutes are too far apart, especially if you play with offset g. The conical bore flutes are more expensive but the holes are easier to manage. If you are playing with closed holes you will have some bad habits to break anyway. Do not be tempted by the pakistani junk. See chiff and fipple page for details on that and lot of other good info. last but not least -- it is ok to play silver flute at Irish sessions if you are good --very good. In the US lot of people do because that is what we were given to play as children. I take both. I love the sound of the wood and it is great for ITM but I can do so much more with the other and I have a wood head joint so the sound is very close.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by jehanna
Re: Irish flutes
I'm hoping to start with mostly traditional Irish music. Everything els I can do with my silver flute. As for price range, between $100 and $250. I might go higher if I'm assured it's worth it. My boehm is open hole with offset G.
Are there fingering charts? Or is it sorta like the pennywhistle?
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by ggamba1980
Re: Irish flutes
Another fluteplayer here. I would also recommend a keyless delrin flute made by M&E. According to their website, the price is 395 $. It's a fine instrument, easy to play, nice tone, and unbreakable. The fingering is the same as on the whistle.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by claudine
Re: Irish flutes
Hi Gina, I live in DC area and play whistle and flute. As you may know, there are an almost overwhelming number of players in this town who play flutes made by Pat Olwell. I would in any case recommend Olwell's keyless flute to you without hesitation (i recommend his keyed flutes too, but it takes 7-10 years to get one.) Olwell flutes are not the cheapest, but in the scheme of things they're really affordable especially given what you get (the best).
I have an olwell keyed flute, and if you'd like to try it drop me a line thru this site and we can make arrangements to meet and talk "flute shop" and can test it out for yourself. There are other options out there too, and I can tell you about those too.
In any case, good luck.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by Brendan
Re: Irish flutes
Casey Burns' folk flute (a standard keyless flute in mopane - designed to be a good entry level flute) may be ideal for you.
I'll third the M&E option and agree that Olwell and a host of others make great flutes...it just depends on what you want to spend.
Eric
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Irish flutes
First thing is, the way I did with my boehm, I don't want to buy a flute without trying it first. For that reason I'm hesitant to buy online.
# Posted on January 28th 2007 by ggamba1980
Re: Irish flutes
Yup some nail it down and Jehanna is dead on target.
I make PVC flutes for fun and can tell you that the reach on the D stick might be too far for most hands - mine are very big !-. So the Casey Burns has my approval right off the bat.
Not there is anything wrong with M&E just the higher price, and knowing had I my own workshop and tools I could knock out simple Irish flutes of local woods here at 50-75 US dollars a pop and make a good profit.
As it is I make a diatonic tuned G folk flute from schedual 40 domestic water pipe for 3 bucks a pop.
So I think some makers are gouging more than hardwood these days... lol.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: Irish flutes
At the price you mention, get one with very few keys. Of course you can get away with no keys, though some are indeed useful for Irish music: Cnat, Fnat and Aflat and Bflat in particular. The thing is, however, that in a new flute of any quality, the price difference for each key is quite significant - Hammy Hamilton's list, for instance, works out at about $350 or $400 for each extra key, and his flutes are, although top class, not stratospheric - he wants a bit under $1000 for a keyless.
It follows that in the low-price range, you can expect the keys to be more trouble than they are worth, but the carefully chosen keyless body may be quite workable.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: Irish flutes
OK. So that leaves one last question. Where to look? I know I'm looking for a keyless D flute. There is House of musical traditions in Takoma Park. Anywhere else?
G.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by ggamba1980
Re: Irish flutes
I understand your reluctance to buy online, but M&E flutes (for example - I'm sure any other reputable makers would be the same) state on their website that if you're not happy send it back for a full refund.
If you make sure before parting with the cash that the maker you're thinking of buying from has the same deal then you'd be safe - it may just take a little time but you should end up with the right flute for you in the end.
I based my choice on a lot of research and particularly one thread that I started here - "Help me choose a flute" on Dec 12th 06. No sense in re-inventing the wheel...
Rh
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by Rhod
Re: Irish flutes
Buy the Casey Burns folk flute at that price. It's a real flute made of wood. And it sounds like it. At least the one does that I recenty bought as a "travel flute" for when I don't want to take several thousand euros of other flute with me. I am still in shock at how good it is for the price he charges. However if you don't want wood and its attendant care issues then people seem to have good opinions of the M&E too.
One niggle, he doesn't put any rings on this flute to reinforce the socket at thte head - instead he makes the head relatively thick for strength. I reinforced the head socket with a winding of fishing line (any other thin strong non-water-absorbing thread would probably have done too..). Probably paranoia on my part, but it's removable and helps my peace of mind.
I have no connection to Casey Burns other than owning two of his flutes.
Chris
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by Crackpot
Re: Irish flutes
I am also a long-time concert flute player who more recently delved into Irish flute. I have a Standard keyless flute in mopane wood by Casey Burns and I absolutely love it! I paid $450 and the wait was not very long (I was lucky enough to get my order in toward the end of a group that he already had in production, and they were close to completion). I also design and build flutes from pvc and bamboo. It is true that the cylindrical bore makes the right hand holes a bit harder to reach, but I have average to small sized hands, and I can manage it. I did make the switch to a 'piper's grip' on my right hand though (which takes a lot of discipline to learn if you've been playing concert flute for a long time, but it is definitely worth the struggle). If you want to check out my flutes there are descriptions, photos, sound samples, and prices on my web site at http://www.theburnfieldcastle.com/flutes . I used my prototype clear flute as a session flute until I was able to get my Casey Burns. I still bring at least one with me to local sessions. It makes a good "lay it down anywhere" and "pick it up anytime" flute. Good luck on your search for an instrument and have fun getting into Irish music, I sure did!
Jason
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by jasonlburnfield
Re: Irish flutes
A few notes about keyed flutes: Back in the day, keyed flutes were the only way to go because there were NO keyless flutes that were not Baroque flutes, which you definitley don't want. When good wooden flutes became scarce, makers started making "Irish Flutes," which were modeled after the 8-key flutes of the late 19th Century, minus the keys, because for Irish music you don't need them.
I was lucky enough to get a very fine flute made around 1885 that is in nearly perfect condition. I do use the keys, and am very glad I have the instrument, but I also have two Casey Burns keyless flutes that I would never part with.
My advice is to get a flute that has a metal-lined head and barrel joint. This has a large affect on the sound, power, and volume, and all 8-keyed flutes had them. A head joint that is all wood won't play as well IMO. What makes an Irish flute sound like an Irish flute is not the head joint being made of wood (since the original ones weren't), but the size of the tone holes and the bore, and the conical (versus cylindrical) design.
An additional advantage in gettng a flute with a metal-lined headjoint is the knowledge that the maker has the skill to do it. Anyone can essentially make a tube with holes in it. If he or she has taken the time to make the flute properly, it's a good bet it will be a decent flute, although I strongly recommend you try before you buy, or bring someone with knowledge who can evalutate the instrument for you.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by Ailin
Re: Irish flutes
Just in case of confusion it may be worth pointing out that polymer flutes like the one I have are not the same as PVC pipe flutes.
I'm not an expert on this by any means (understatement
) but I believe my M&E flute is machined from solid stock, and it certainly has a tapered bore, so its construction is very similar if not identical to a 'traditional' wooden flute, with similar distances on the finger holes.
Not that I'm knocking the parallel bore pipes at all - I've not tried them but people write good things about them all the time (I very nearly went that route myself). It was really on the question of finger spacing that I thought there might be some confusion.
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by Rhod
Re: Irish flutes
Yes, Ailin and Rhod are correct regarding cylindrical bore flutes (whether they be made from pvc, copper, bamboo, or anything else). The tonal characteristics are different than a conical bore. And they are also correct about the finger spacing issues (mostly on the right hand and especially the lowest hole). I have found that the thicker walls of the flutes that I have made from schedule 80 pipe mellow the sound considerably from the similarly bored copper flutes that I have made. The main difference between conical bore and cylindrical bore flutes, in my experience, is the power and ease of playing the lower register notes (especially the low D), and the overall tone and volume of the instrument. Still, you can't beat a nearly indestructable, decent playing, pvc flute for the price!
Also, I've read great things about Doug Tipple's flutes and a special 'wedge' that he makes that tapers the bore somewhat, and is said to help both the intonation and response of the instrument. Several people who have tried it say that it works great. I've not personally tried his flutes (since I make my own), but he has a very good reputation on several of the flute and whistle forums.
Responding to Alinin's discussion of metal lined head joints, the main effect that the metal lining has on the flute's tonal characteristics is that of allowing tuneability without creating a gross disruption to the bore as would be caused by simply pulling out a tenon joint. The metal tuning slide is very thin which minimizes the space left in the bore when the head joint is pulled out. The relativiey large space left inside the bore when pulling out a tenon joint (which is fairly thick) will have major effects on the tunning of the higher order harmonics, tending to throw some of the second octave notes out of tune. I don't know that the metal lining would really affect the overall tone a great deal (though it is probably detectable to a discerning player).
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by jasonlburnfield
Re: Irish flutes
Oops! I meant "Responding to Ailin's...".
# Posted on January 29th 2007 by jasonlburnfield
Re: Irish flutes
Hey ggamaba1980, I don't know how ambitious you are, but I found a site earlier today on how to make your own flute.
http://www.cwo.com/~ph_kosel/designs.html
Good luck!
Sara
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by Celtic Lass
Re: Irish flutes
Just a comment on the fully metal lined headjoints...not all good flutes have these. Even if a flute has a tuning slide, it can be a partial slide (in the headjoint) like Seery, McGee and Hamilton make (among others).
So, a fully lined headjoint isn't a requirement and doesn't impact tone that much IMHO.
Eric
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Irish flutes
In fact, I strongly prefer an non-lined headjoint - sounds warmer to me... And I have flutes with both...
Chris.
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by Crackpot
Re: Irish flutes
An argument can definitely be made that an unlined headjoint sounds warmer, I wanted to make the point that it is not "traditional" in that all 8-key flutes have a lined head. Every unlined head I've played, including my own Casey Burns', has less volume and "punch." My lined Casey Burns and vintage 8-key both sound stronger. Ultimately, you go with the flute you prefer, but I wanted to bring up the subject of lined head joints because it is a consideration, and at the very least, merits discussion.
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by Ailin
Re: Irish flutes
Ailin's observations make sense from an acoustics standpoint. The "punch" and volume that he is speaking of on the flutes with lined heads is most likely due to the efficiency of the dense metal lining at reflecting sound waves and supporting resonance with very little loss of energy. The unlined heads will tend to have a "darker" "warmer" sound precisely due to a little more energy loss in the softer, (and most likely) rougher walls.
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by jasonlburnfield
Re: Irish flutes
Gina, you might be able to find a good flute at HMT in Takoma Park, but there's no guarantee. They don't normally have a lot of Irish flutes in stock there, but occasionally folks have gotten lucky. In fact, someone I know just happened to walk in there one day a few years ago to find an Olwell for sale, which she immediately bought. And I bought my first flute there, an early Casey Burns model. But that was in 1988. If I was looking for a new flute today, I'd be looking online (eBay, dealers like this guy Doc Jones out in Iowa, etc) rather than in a store.
If you are looking to try before you buy, as Brendan said above there are a good few flute players in DC, and some of them (unlike Brendan, who needs to get out more :->) even come to sessions. It's true that many of us play Olwells, but there are other flutes represented here too. And most of us have played a range of flutes and know what's good and what's not. So if you came out to a session and asked kindly you could probably try out a couple of different flutes and get opinions from several flute players on what's available out there. There are sessions in DC on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday every week, and in Baltimore on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Some of them may be listed on this site, but probably not all of them. But if you want to send me an e-mail via this site I'll be glad to give you the details on where they are.
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by johnkerr
Re: Irish flutes
Iowa, Idaho...only 1,400 miles apart, completely different topography, climate and primary crop (corn vs spuds).
There's a lot states between the two coasts that really aren't that interchangable...
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Irish flutes
Forgot to mention Doc Jones is a stand up guy - my current flute came from him.
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Irish flutes
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I myself have been looking at getting one of Doug Tipple's flutes. I've heard very good things. However, I have absolutely no experience or knowledge of flutes. I am pretty decent on the whistle. The only problem is that I taught myself it and learnt backwards or reverse hand positioning. If I want to learn the flute and stay with the fingering I use on the whistle, what does this mean? Is there such a thing as a left-handed flute or what have you?
# Posted on January 30th 2007 by ltrane
Re: Irish flutes
If you get a keyless flute, whatever you do on whistle is completely transferable with regard to fingering.
# Posted on January 31st 2007 by Ailin
Re: Irish flutes
You just have to make sure that the first and fourth holes are not offset, but that all of the holes are in a straight line.
# Posted on January 31st 2007 by jasonlburnfield
Re: Irish flutes
Jeff Whittier makes fantastic bamboo flutes also called bansuri. The fingering is the same as the six holed whistle/folk flute with an extra seventh hole for the right pinky (ti.) Tone, pitch and durablity are perfect as one can expect in a wooden flute. Price for a D is $130.00 and that includes shipping. Bear in mind I am a heretical jazzer, salsa/classical styled Boehm loving ITM flautist so my requirements and inclinations are more flexible than some. Jeff will answer his phone which is 650-858-0117. The flutes are not tunable but they are so well in tune everyone should/will tune to you.
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by red_tiger
Re: Irish flutes
I don't want to diss a flute I haven't played, and I have played some remarkable bamboo flutes, but let me throw out a few cautions: The bore size of a bamboo flute is from the natural bamboo, and thus lacks precision. Flutes are best made from a dense material, which bamboo is not. You could probably track down a good used keyless wooden flute (or even polymer) for $130, which would be a better investment for ITM than bamboo by far. If you can try a bamboo flute and find that it meets your needs, the foregoing is null and void, but be warned.
# Posted on February 2nd 2007 by Ailin
Re: Irish flutes
Null and void yes. There are arguments against all the points made above. But if you want to spend $800 up for a comparable or even inferior instrument.........
# Posted on February 8th 2007 by red_tiger
If anyone is even reading
Just to clarify: I am not saying that all bamboo flutes are superior or even of good quality. In fact most are not. However Jeff Whittier ha been making flutes for over 30 years. And if you Google him you can see that he is one of the most qualified makers of bamboo (or possibly any variety of wooden flute) in the US of A. Enuff said.
# Posted on February 9th 2007 by red_tiger
Re: Irish flutes
Itrane,
I'm as left-handed as they come but I've never heard of changing the hands around on a flute. What's the advantage? I don't get it.
True, I pick up a fork with my left hand and write with it, of course, but even as a child i discovered it was to my advantage to bat a ball "right" handed. I use my right arm for strength, my left for precision. So i guess I steered the bat from my left hand. Wouldn't know anymore - always disliked baseball anyway.
C. Nicolas
# Posted on September 5th 2008 by C. Nicolas