I use my 3rd, and have been teaching that, because its what came naturally to me, and its what my teacher did, and what I've seen most other people to do.
I would suggest that its best to use the 3rd, but it is likely you will hear others suggest to use the 4th...
In classical violin you're supposed to use the 3rd finger, but I guess in fiddling anything goes. If you get used to using the fourth finger, though, you may have problems if you have to play a C# followed by a D.
3rd finger for me, too. The only time I use 4th finger for C# on the G string is when I'm coming from the C nat (or vice versa) and I don't want to slide. That fingering is more common in Gm tunes that go from d to eflat (or vice versa) on the A string or that toggle between a and bflat on the e string.
If the C# seems like too much of a stretch, see how it feels if you move your thumb slightly up the neck, so that it's across from your middle (2nd) finger. Some fiddlers also find it helps in reaching notes on the G string to keep the fiddle angled toward their left shoulder, rather than the scroll landing somewhere out in front of their chest. With the neck closer to the left shoulder, your forearm and wrist don't have to twist as much to reach that G string.
Third finger for me too; mind you, I have freakishly long fingers and if I'm not paying attention I'm liable to play a sharp C# even with my third finger.
Def 3rd ... except sometimes you want to get farily quickly, either directly or via one other note, say, to the G natural on the D string. Then, fourth can come in handy.
Third. I think I'd be afraid of confusing my fourth finger if I tried to use that on any note but D -- I'm really trying to get my fourth finger to know that exact spot I want it to land on each string, and it's being stubborn about that. Poor fourth finger.
I use the 3rd finger. The only time I've ever gone from the Cnat to C# was in a Cajun tune and sliding was entirely appropriate. I remember when I first confronted the question. I thought I should use the 4th finger so I wouldn't lose the muslce memory anchor of the 3rd finger on C, G, D and A; but with a little practice that fear dissolved and it seemed very natural to play the C# with 3.
It should be the third finger really. I wouldn't move the thumb as Will suggests as this may affect the tuning of all your other fingers, although it is a novel idea and I might give it a go to see if it does work. The note should only be difficult to reach if you are gripping the fingerboard. If this is the case try relaxing your grip a little and pulling your wrist round so you fingers come up and over the top of the fingerboard. This will pull your elbow forwards (which you should be able to see through the front curve of the fiddle) and should make the sound better as well. However, if it's not causing you a problem then I should think you are quite free to use whichever finger you prefer as long as it works for you.
Bowburner, the moving thumb thing is Trevor's (lazyhound) tip, and I've found it helps intonation rather than hurts it, plus gets the whole hand to relax. Being able to reposition the thumb is just one necessary part of shifting positions--on fiddle, banjo, mandolin, guitar, etc.
As a general rule, 3rd for c#, and 4th for Db. It all depends on the key. So given that you won't find many tunes, if any, in Ab or Db, then I'd say you're pretty safe to assume it's the third.
Sorry Will, I saw it on your post so I assumed it was your idea. You are right in that moving the thumb upwards into second position would work as long as the person doing it realises that that is what they are doing and that they will then be playing all the following notes in second position until they move the thumb and hand back down again. It is very unusual to change position just to play one note but not impossible. If it works and sounds ok then that's all that matters.
Playing in a key with C# in the scale eg D/ A/ E/Bmin/ F#min/ , I'd use 3rd for the low C# (and similarly to play G# on the D string or D# on the A string)
But if I was in Aflat or Fmin then I'd use 4th for the Dflat (the "C#")
Bowburner, I think there's a slight misunderstanding somewhere. Although the thumb is mobile you're not moving into the 2nd position - the fingers remain in the 1st position. By moving the thumb slightly towards the bridge so that it is more nearly opposite the second finger (usually the longest and most powerful finger for most people) the hand is better balanced and it is easier to use the 4th finger (pinky) to reach for that high B on the E-string, or the D on the G-string, With a bit of practice most players can expect to reach the high C-nat on the E-string while remaining in the 1st position.
With a mobile thumb you won't get the dreaded "death grip", playing stamina will be improved, the hand and fingers will be more relaxed and mobile and as a result, as Will says, intonation improves.
Lazyhound you are full of intriguing advice. First the rope arm and now this one! (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely impressed ) I'm going to have to give that a go. I have very long fingers so reaching a high C on the E string has never been a problem, but perhaps now I will be able to reach a high D on the E as well.
Seriously, adjusting the thumb position has helped me to no end--easily reaching the high c on the e string, getting G string rolls crisper, just relaxing the hand even more. Thanks for sharing that tip.
Yes, but it IS the dark side. That's why I play one
They were supposedly banned in Wales for a time, precisely because they were 'devilish' in nature. But then, there've been several iniquitous bans in Wales over the years - witness the infamous Welsh 'not'.
(I wonder if it works if you give him glasses as well 8-P )
Question for fiddlers
Question for fiddlers
What finger, 3rd or 4th, do you use for a c# on the G string. Is one better than the other?
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Kheelch
Re: Question for fiddlers
I use my 3rd, and have been teaching that, because its what came naturally to me, and its what my teacher did, and what I've seen most other people to do.
I would suggest that its best to use the 3rd, but it is likely you will hear others suggest to use the 4th...
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Sean Clery
Re: Question for fiddlers
In classical violin you're supposed to use the 3rd finger, but I guess in fiddling anything goes. If you get used to using the fourth finger, though, you may have problems if you have to play a C# followed by a D.
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Question for fiddlers
On the other hand the open D is an option isn't it?
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Question for fiddlers
3rd finger for me, too. The only time I use 4th finger for C# on the G string is when I'm coming from the C nat (or vice versa) and I don't want to slide. That fingering is more common in Gm tunes that go from d to eflat (or vice versa) on the A string or that toggle between a and bflat on the e string.
If the C# seems like too much of a stretch, see how it feels if you move your thumb slightly up the neck, so that it's across from your middle (2nd) finger. Some fiddlers also find it helps in reaching notes on the G string to keep the fiddle angled toward their left shoulder, rather than the scroll landing somewhere out in front of their chest. With the neck closer to the left shoulder, your forearm and wrist don't have to twist as much to reach that G string.
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Question for fiddlers
Third finger for me too; mind you, I have freakishly long fingers and if I'm not paying attention I'm liable to play a sharp C# even with my third finger.
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Question for fiddlers
i use the fourth when i'm crossbowing things for ornamentation - i.e., e-e flat-e, D-C sharp-D, but elsewise i use the third.
weird tick, i know.
--DtM
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: Question for fiddlers
Def 3rd ... except sometimes you want to get farily quickly, either directly or via one other note, say, to the G natural on the D string. Then, fourth can come in handy.
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Question for fiddlers
Third. I think I'd be afraid of confusing my fourth finger if I tried to use that on any note but D -- I'm really trying to get my fourth finger to know that exact spot I want it to land on each string, and it's being stubborn about that. Poor fourth finger.
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by winterowl
Re: Question for fiddlers
I use the 3rd finger. The only time I've ever gone from the Cnat to C# was in a Cajun tune and sliding was entirely appropriate. I remember when I first confronted the question. I thought I should use the 4th finger so I wouldn't lose the muslce memory anchor of the 3rd finger on C, G, D and A; but with a little practice that fear dissolved and it seemed very natural to play the C# with 3.
# Posted on January 18th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Question for fiddlers
It should be the third finger really. I wouldn't move the thumb as Will suggests as this may affect the tuning of all your other fingers, although it is a novel idea and I might give it a go to see if it does work. The note should only be difficult to reach if you are gripping the fingerboard. If this is the case try relaxing your grip a little and pulling your wrist round so you fingers come up and over the top of the fingerboard. This will pull your elbow forwards (which you should be able to see through the front curve of the fiddle) and should make the sound better as well. However, if it's not causing you a problem then I should think you are quite free to use whichever finger you prefer as long as it works for you.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by bowburner
Re: Question for fiddlers
Bowburner, the moving thumb thing is Trevor's (lazyhound) tip, and I've found it helps intonation rather than hurts it, plus gets the whole hand to relax. Being able to reposition the thumb is just one necessary part of shifting positions--on fiddle, banjo, mandolin, guitar, etc.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Question for fiddlers
The way I've always been taught was to use your 3rd finger.
Sara
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by Celtic Lass
Re: Question for fiddlers
As a general rule, 3rd for c#, and 4th for Db. It all depends on the key. So given that you won't find many tunes, if any, in Ab or Db, then I'd say you're pretty safe to assume it's the third.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by woops
Re: Question for fiddlers
1 being index finger, 2 middle finger, 3 ring finger, 4 pinkie?
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: Question for fiddlers
Right.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Question for fiddlers
3rd finger for me except for one tune - the Moving Cloud in F. I use the 4th finger for the c#.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by John Culhane
Re: Question for fiddlers
Sorry Will, I saw it on your post so I assumed it was your idea. You are right in that moving the thumb upwards into second position would work as long as the person doing it realises that that is what they are doing and that they will then be playing all the following notes in second position until they move the thumb and hand back down again. It is very unusual to change position just to play one note but not impossible. If it works and sounds ok then that's all that matters.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by bowburner
Re: Question for fiddlers
Playing in a key with C# in the scale eg D/ A/ E/Bmin/ F#min/ , I'd use 3rd for the low C# (and similarly to play G# on the D string or D# on the A string)
But if I was in Aflat or Fmin then I'd use 4th for the Dflat (the "C#")
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by domnull
Re: Question for fiddlers
"Playing in a key with C#" ? ? ?
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Question for fiddlers
Bowburner, I think there's a slight misunderstanding somewhere. Although the thumb is mobile you're not moving into the 2nd position - the fingers remain in the 1st position. By moving the thumb slightly towards the bridge so that it is more nearly opposite the second finger (usually the longest and most powerful finger for most people) the hand is better balanced and it is easier to use the 4th finger (pinky) to reach for that high B on the E-string, or the D on the G-string, With a bit of practice most players can expect to reach the high C-nat on the E-string while remaining in the 1st position.
With a mobile thumb you won't get the dreaded "death grip", playing stamina will be improved, the hand and fingers will be more relaxed and mobile and as a result, as Will says, intonation improves.
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Question for fiddlers
Lazyhound you are full of intriguing advice. First the rope arm and now this one! (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely impressed
) I'm going to have to give that a go. I have very long fingers so reaching a high C on the E string has never been a problem, but perhaps now I will be able to reach a high D on the E as well.
What else do you know?
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by bowburner
Re: Question for fiddlers
Shhh!
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Question for fiddlers
Yes, what the lazy cur said.
Amazing what you can learn from a cellist converted to the dark side....
# Posted on January 19th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Question for fiddlers
"Converted to the dark side" ... Yep Will, you're right. Best compliment I've had this year.
# Posted on January 20th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Question for fiddlers
Well, the year is young.
Seriously, adjusting the thumb position has helped me to no end--easily reaching the high c on the e string, getting G string rolls crisper, just relaxing the hand even more. Thanks for sharing that tip.
# Posted on January 20th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Question for fiddlers
Be it witchcraft Lazyhound?
# Posted on January 20th 2007 by bowburner
Re: Question for fiddlers
We don't talk about it in public.
# Posted on January 20th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Question for fiddlers
Yes, but it IS the dark side. That's why I play one
They were supposedly banned in Wales for a time, precisely because they were 'devilish' in nature. But then, there've been several iniquitous bans in Wales over the years - witness the infamous Welsh 'not'.
(I wonder if it works if you give him glasses as well 8-P )
# Posted on January 20th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Question for fiddlers
... apparently not ...
# Posted on January 20th 2007 by benhall.1