Next month I will be attending a fiddle workshop by Christian Lemaître .
Part of it will be ITM, but sure there will also be Breton music.
I have a few opinions (prejudices?) about Breton music about that I want to share with you:
1. Breton music is not (primarily) session music but dance music;
2. The music is very much regionally biased and has not been documented so much like ITM and STM; thus standardization has not taken place that much;
3. for the same reason there is no such thing like a top 10 of tunes or a tutor for beginning Breton music players (never came across one);
4. Breton fiddle music is relatively new, in the past it was merely bombarde and biniou as the leading instruments.
5. The repetitive structure of the music and the variations makes it harder to memorize than ITM or STM.
1. I can't imagine breton music without people dancing to it. But then again, I'm very sad how many people who play irish music can't/have never/don't want to play for dancers.
2. I'm pretty sure it's fairly documented, given the pipebands and stuff like that. But it's probably an artificial kind of documentation which doesn't tell the whole story. What you have is that each region has it's dance, and a style of playing the music which best suits it. Sometimes different tunes, sometimes the same tunes with a different take on them.
3. A top ten tunes won't take you far... There are various forms of gavottes (including mountain, fisel, plinn (many will disagree that this is a gavotte), kost er c'hoet, pourlet, dardoup), each are subtly different, some having specific tunes, others taking the same tunes and adopting them. A dance will often be composted of a "ton simple" which will be a medley of anywhere between 1 and 10 4 bar tunes (4 "bars" giving you 2 repeated 8 counts), a bal, which will be one slow theme and one fast theme and a ton double which will be anywhere between 1 and 10 6 bar tunes (one repeated 8 count and two repeated 16 counts). You wouldn't get far within that kind of top ten.
And then you have the countless other types of dance: an dros, rond saint vincent, ridée (6 and 8 count), loudeac, waltzes, polkas, mazurkas, scottisches, and others I haven't mentioned. But each tune being relatively shorter and simpler than an irish one, the complexity being that the differenece between say an andro and a rond de saint vincent is quite subtle.
4. yes and no. Accordeons and fiddles in particular, have existed for 150 years in britanny - they just weren't taken up straight away in the revivalist movement of the 50s. Fortunately, "we" have the dancers to rely on and this provides all the needed guidance to find a suitable style for a given instrument.
5. it's much shorter but with much more variations. In pipebands, they are codified, which means that what I would consider a simple one line tune (where all the rest is simply variations) might cover several pages of sheetmusic. The repetitive structure makes it very obvious where the tune "has to go". I find that the limited tessiture of the tunes is what makes them hard to remember.
As you can see, I love talking about music from britanny. For two of the greatest groups ever and some pretty amazing use of the fiddle (melody, harmony, accompaniement and more), checkout Loened Fall and Klaskerien.
I highly recommend Musiques pour danse bretonne by Yann Dour. A very comprehensive book with maps, designed for box players, with CD. Excellent introduction. You can get it used on Ebay. Good Luck.
Thanks so far, both of you! Tirno, I can see you have been thinking a lot about Breton music. I thought you probably were from Brittany, but your profile says you're from Switzerland. Do you perhaps have Breton roots, or are you 'just' a steady holiday guest in Brittanny?
Any Breton players aboard right now?
Has anybody actually worked with Christian Lemaître by the way? What is he like as a teacher?
For Breton fiddle music you can probably do little better than the album Archetype. Truly wonderful music, drawing on a number of influences outside brittany as well as within and with an all star cast including Christian Lemaitre, Pierrick Lemou, Hervé Bertho, Jacky Molard, Fanch Landreau, Yvon Rouget, Thierry Moreau and Pierre Lecompte.
Archetype happens to be one of the few albums with Breton music I own! You're right, it is fantastic. Apart from that I own one album by Kornog and then there are the Breton tracks on the various Celtic Fiddle Festival albums.
I'm just back from a fest noz in tonkedeg actually
It's true it's hard to seprate the dance from the music in brittany, but there is a few "boeufs" where the musicians would play like in a session, leeving solos to each, bringing in nice themes.
The fiddle is a traditionnal instrument, specially in the tregor where I live, it's not as strong as the box which is now played by lods a kids in the area. A part from the biniou and the bombard, the violin, the box, there is the clarinette (treujenn gaol), the hurdy gurdy and lots of singing and now all the new instruments flute, guitare...
Great groups: Barzaz, Gwerz, Ar re yaouank, Hastañ, Kornog, Loened fall, Guichen, Startijenn...
There's a good few tunes here: http://www.tamm-kreiz.com/jukebox/jukebox.htm
And if your workshop is in brittany go to a fest-noz, to see the madness of it.
A good way for irish musicians to be appreciated from the girls, play jigs! calling them cercle circassien.
The thing I like with the fiddle in breton music is when it's played on "vannetais" tunes, ridees, laridees, an dro, hanter dro, kas ar barh... the kind of modal thing.
La musique bretagne - l'anthologie . vol 1 - Les groupes a danser
I bought this in a supermarche when last in Brittany.
It is produced by Coop Brieizh to a very good standard amd includes a booklet on the contributing bands.
I am quite interested in Breton music, and have not worked out any tunes yet for fingerstyle guitar, but when I have time (ha ha...that's really funny) hope to take some apart by ear and play them. I do a couple, backing with my main partner in crime, a flute player, she has a few and we play them together.
My main interest is that my grandmother was Breton (though part Spanish too), literally, her last name, maiden name, was Breton. So I feel it calling me.... I have wedding pictures of her with a Breton style headress, and can just imagine the music at her wedding in the background.
It's such mysterious sounding music to my ear, it just grabs my soul, wrings my heart out somehow... the melodic structures are different for the most part from the Irish music I am used to, and will require a week or two off to immerse myself in it and retrain the brain a litte. I do not read music, so it will be by ear, and require isolation and immersion.
Lots of good resources mentioned above. One great Breton guitarist is Soig Siberil. I believe he is half Moroccan as well as Breton.
I see your questions have aready been well answered Henk, so all I can do is add my name to the ranks of those who passionately enjoy playing Breton Music.
I have also posted some details on Christian's solo CD, 'Ballade A L'hotesse' which you probably already have.
As I say in the comments, I met Christian around 1980 & found him to be a grand fellow altogether, & a super player, so I have no doubt whatsover that you will not only thoroughly enjoy his class, but will learn loads & loads about Breton music.
N.B. Oh, & if you happen to bump into Dessie Wilkinson, you'll find that he's a veritable walking encyclopedia on the ins & outs of Breton Music!
I note that John Skelton will be teaching Breton music at the Lark in the Morning festival this summer. John is a great teacher of flute and pipes, and a fine dancer, too. Well worth considering,,,
I had the pleasure of going to a Celtic Festival (Wolf dance) and the ensuing late night Fest Noz in Corbeyier in Switzerland last year (thanks to Tirno and others letting me know about it). I was enthralled at how similar yet so different the music was to me, as a Scot who plays mainly Scottish and Irish music.
I felt that the music sort of flowed thicker and longer than the often bouncier, liltier celtic folk music, with longer-lasting tune segments and a faster, stronger, even beat that was conducive to the dancing they were doing - linked arms and coiling around the hall in long lines with smaller steps.
The bands were fantastic and well worth a listen: a mix of professional and amateur, including:
Black Water – France, Dizano – Bretagne, Follenn – Bretagne
Hydromel – switzerland, Lúnasa – Eire, Pevar Den – Bretagne, Toss – France, Red Cardell – Bretagne.
Hi !
I can add to what breizhouki said : fiddle is mainly a traditionnal instrument in the west of Brittany (that area is called the 'Gallo' region where people didn't speak breton). There are indeed fiddles in Tregor (N-E region), but yit's not really significant. So the 4th proposition of Henk Bos is false ! (today all tunes are played by fiddles, but traditionnal tunes are, for instance, ridées, avant-deux (there are many of these, of many kind), rond de saint vincent, rond de loudéac (also written 'loudia', its local pronounciation), pilé menu... and so on...
1. actually there are some sessions, but it's mainly inspired by the irish sessions, not really 'traditionnal'
2. The music *is* very documented, there are many studies on thaht music...
3. I agree, you can't really choose a top ten tunes
5. Breton music is not less repetitive than ITM or STM, or even Rock music... It's perhaps harder to memorize for a usual ITM or STM music player, because you aren't necessarily accustomed to breton tunes...
If someone is interested, I know many breton tunes. If I have the will I'll put'em on thesession. The main problem is that, due to the regionalisation evoked by Henk bos, the main difficulty lies in the specific style of each dance. As some said, it is a music essentially made for dance. And it is hard to copy out that style with abc music. But I can try
Breton music
Breton music
Next month I will be attending a fiddle workshop by Christian Lemaître
.
Part of it will be ITM, but sure there will also be Breton music.
I have a few opinions (prejudices?) about Breton music about that I want to share with you:
1. Breton music is not (primarily) session music but dance music;
2. The music is very much regionally biased and has not been documented so much like ITM and STM; thus standardization has not taken place that much;
3. for the same reason there is no such thing like a top 10 of tunes or a tutor for beginning Breton music players (never came across one);
4. Breton fiddle music is relatively new, in the past it was merely bombarde and biniou as the leading instruments.
5. The repetitive structure of the music and the variations makes it harder to memorize than ITM or STM.
True or not true?
# Posted on January 6th 2007 by Henk Bos
Re: Breton music
1. I can't imagine breton music without people dancing to it. But then again, I'm very sad how many people who play irish music can't/have never/don't want to play for dancers.
2. I'm pretty sure it's fairly documented, given the pipebands and stuff like that. But it's probably an artificial kind of documentation which doesn't tell the whole story. What you have is that each region has it's dance, and a style of playing the music which best suits it. Sometimes different tunes, sometimes the same tunes with a different take on them.
3. A top ten tunes won't take you far... There are various forms of gavottes (including mountain, fisel, plinn (many will disagree that this is a gavotte), kost er c'hoet, pourlet, dardoup), each are subtly different, some having specific tunes, others taking the same tunes and adopting them. A dance will often be composted of a "ton simple" which will be a medley of anywhere between 1 and 10 4 bar tunes (4 "bars" giving you 2 repeated 8 counts), a bal, which will be one slow theme and one fast theme and a ton double which will be anywhere between 1 and 10 6 bar tunes (one repeated 8 count and two repeated 16 counts). You wouldn't get far within that kind of top ten.
And then you have the countless other types of dance: an dros, rond saint vincent, ridée (6 and 8 count), loudeac, waltzes, polkas, mazurkas, scottisches, and others I haven't mentioned. But each tune being relatively shorter and simpler than an irish one, the complexity being that the differenece between say an andro and a rond de saint vincent is quite subtle.
4. yes and no. Accordeons and fiddles in particular, have existed for 150 years in britanny - they just weren't taken up straight away in the revivalist movement of the 50s. Fortunately, "we" have the dancers to rely on and this provides all the needed guidance to find a suitable style for a given instrument.
5. it's much shorter but with much more variations. In pipebands, they are codified, which means that what I would consider a simple one line tune (where all the rest is simply variations) might cover several pages of sheetmusic. The repetitive structure makes it very obvious where the tune "has to go". I find that the limited tessiture of the tunes is what makes them hard to remember.
As you can see, I love talking about music from britanny. For two of the greatest groups ever and some pretty amazing use of the fiddle (melody, harmony, accompaniement and more), checkout Loened Fall and Klaskerien.
# Posted on January 6th 2007 by Tirno
Re: Breton music
I highly recommend Musiques pour danse bretonne by Yann Dour. A very comprehensive book with maps, designed for box players, with CD. Excellent introduction. You can get it used on Ebay. Good Luck.
# Posted on January 6th 2007 by pennhorse
Re: Breton music
Thanks so far, both of you! Tirno, I can see you have been thinking a lot about Breton music. I thought you probably were from Brittany, but your profile says you're from Switzerland. Do you perhaps have Breton roots, or are you 'just' a steady holiday guest in Brittanny?
Any Breton players aboard right now?
Has anybody actually worked with Christian Lemaître by the way? What is he like as a teacher?
# Posted on January 6th 2007 by Henk Bos
Re: Breton music
For Breton fiddle music you can probably do little better than the album Archetype. Truly wonderful music, drawing on a number of influences outside brittany as well as within and with an all star cast including Christian Lemaitre, Pierrick Lemou, Hervé Bertho, Jacky Molard, Fanch Landreau, Yvon Rouget, Thierry Moreau and Pierre Lecompte.
# Posted on January 6th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Breton music
Archetype happens to be one of the few albums with Breton music I own! You're right, it is fantastic. Apart from that I own one album by Kornog and then there are the Breton tracks on the various Celtic Fiddle Festival albums.
Any other recommendations?
# Posted on January 6th 2007 by Henk Bos
Re: Breton music
Finisterres by Dan Ar Braz is a fantastic mixture of irish / scottish / french music.
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by barrysmith90
Re: Breton music
Christian has a solo recording of Breton music on fiddle. I highly recommend it.
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Breton music
I'm just back from a fest noz in tonkedeg actually
It's true it's hard to seprate the dance from the music in brittany, but there is a few "boeufs" where the musicians would play like in a session, leeving solos to each, bringing in nice themes.
The fiddle is a traditionnal instrument, specially in the tregor where I live, it's not as strong as the box which is now played by lods a kids in the area. A part from the biniou and the bombard, the violin, the box, there is the clarinette (treujenn gaol), the hurdy gurdy and lots of singing and now all the new instruments flute, guitare...
Great groups: Barzaz, Gwerz, Ar re yaouank, Hastañ, Kornog, Loened fall, Guichen, Startijenn...
There's a good few tunes here: http://www.tamm-kreiz.com/jukebox/jukebox.htm
And if your workshop is in brittany go to a fest-noz, to see the madness of it.
A good way for irish musicians to be appreciated from the girls, play jigs! calling them cercle circassien.
The thing I like with the fiddle in breton music is when it's played on "vannetais" tunes, ridees, laridees, an dro, hanter dro, kas ar barh... the kind of modal thing.
http://www.tamm-kreiz.com/kalon/tk.php is the main fest-noz website.
Good luck, kalon vat!
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by breizhouki
Re: Breton music
La musique bretagne - l'anthologie . vol 1 - Les groupes a danser
I bought this in a supermarche when last in Brittany.
It is produced by Coop Brieizh to a very good standard amd includes a booklet on the contributing bands.
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by len
Re: Breton music
I am quite interested in Breton music, and have not worked out any tunes yet for fingerstyle guitar, but when I have time (ha ha...that's really funny) hope to take some apart by ear and play them. I do a couple, backing with my main partner in crime, a flute player, she has a few and we play them together.
My main interest is that my grandmother was Breton (though part Spanish too), literally, her last name, maiden name, was Breton. So I feel it calling me.... I have wedding pictures of her with a Breton style headress, and can just imagine the music at her wedding in the background.
It's such mysterious sounding music to my ear, it just grabs my soul, wrings my heart out somehow... the melodic structures are different for the most part from the Irish music I am used to, and will require a week or two off to immerse myself in it and retrain the brain a litte. I do not read music, so it will be by ear, and require isolation and immersion.
Lots of good resources mentioned above. One great Breton guitarist is Soig Siberil. I believe he is half Moroccan as well as Breton.
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Breton music
I see your questions have aready been well answered Henk, so all I can do is add my name to the ranks of those who passionately enjoy playing Breton Music.
I have also posted some details on Christian's solo CD, 'Ballade A L'hotesse' which you probably already have.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2335/
As I say in the comments, I met Christian around 1980 & found him to be a grand fellow altogether, & a super player, so I have no doubt whatsover that you will not only thoroughly enjoy his class, but will learn loads & loads about Breton music.
N.B. Oh, & if you happen to bump into Dessie Wilkinson, you'll find that he's a veritable walking encyclopedia on the ins & outs of Breton Music!
Good Luck
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Breton music
Desi's PhD was on Breton music, I seem to recall.
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Breton music
Thanks for the encouraging support.
# Posted on January 8th 2007 by Henk Bos
Re: Breton music
I note that John Skelton will be teaching Breton music at the Lark in the Morning festival this summer. John is a great teacher of flute and pipes, and a fine dancer, too. Well worth considering,,,
# Posted on January 8th 2007 by dulcie22
Re: Breton music
I had the pleasure of going to a Celtic Festival (Wolf dance) and the ensuing late night Fest Noz in Corbeyier in Switzerland last year (thanks to Tirno and others letting me know about it). I was enthralled at how similar yet so different the music was to me, as a Scot who plays mainly Scottish and Irish music.
I felt that the music sort of flowed thicker and longer than the often bouncier, liltier celtic folk music, with longer-lasting tune segments and a faster, stronger, even beat that was conducive to the dancing they were doing - linked arms and coiling around the hall in long lines with smaller steps.
The bands were fantastic and well worth a listen: a mix of professional and amateur, including:
Black Water – France, Dizano – Bretagne, Follenn – Bretagne
Hydromel – switzerland, Lúnasa – Eire, Pevar Den – Bretagne, Toss – France, Red Cardell – Bretagne.
# Posted on January 8th 2007 by jinksy
Re: Breton music
Hi !
I can add to what breizhouki said : fiddle is mainly a traditionnal instrument in the west of Brittany (that area is called the 'Gallo' region where people didn't speak breton). There are indeed fiddles in Tregor (N-E region), but yit's not really significant. So the 4th proposition of Henk Bos is false ! (today all tunes are played by fiddles, but traditionnal tunes are, for instance, ridées, avant-deux (there are many of these, of many kind), rond de saint vincent, rond de loudéac (also written 'loudia', its local pronounciation), pilé menu... and so on...
1. actually there are some sessions, but it's mainly inspired by the irish sessions, not really 'traditionnal'
2. The music *is* very documented, there are many studies on thaht music...
3. I agree, you can't really choose a top ten tunes
5. Breton music is not less repetitive than ITM or STM, or even Rock music... It's perhaps harder to memorize for a usual ITM or STM music player, because you aren't necessarily accustomed to breton tunes...
If someone is interested, I know many breton tunes. If I have the will I'll put'em on thesession. The main problem is that, due to the regionalisation evoked by Henk bos, the main difficulty lies in the specific style of each dance. As some said, it is a music essentially made for dance. And it is hard to copy out that style with abc music. But I can try
# Posted on April 17th 2007 by daoudonek