A good source of information is John Gibson's book Traditional Gaelic Piping as it covers a large period it would be a good start. Its certainly a big question to answer one view is that pipers played nothing but piobaireachd whereas if you look at Joseph McDonalds complete theory he gives a version of John Mckechnie, the George Skene manuscript 1715 gives 4 or 5 tunes played on borderpipes but i don't know of any one source.You'd have to do a bit of research and weigh up how reliable that source is.
I have heard a theory that the first recordings, or early recordings, field recordings etc. or 78's in their beginning, are a pretty good representation of what music has probably sounded like for several hundred years.
The theory states that music has changed and morphed at a way accelerated pace as recordings got more sophisticated and widely dispersed, due to people adopting different influences. So the earliest recordings of any instrument, theoretically, was in a more pure state, as it had stayed within its particular regions and not heard far and wide yet.
If this makes any sense? Just theory, but it sounds logical.
http://www.itma.ie/ The Irish traditional music archive has the biggest collection of authentic recordings. They are available to anybody who wishes to study them. However you would have to travel to Dublin to listen or study.
I don't know of any specific piob mor, but have you googled it, along with "early recordings" or something? Pipes may yield more results than piob mor. Likely you've already done that though....
http://billhaneman.ie/history.html is a site mentioned in a fairly recent thread here to do with the putting on-line of works by the Irish traditional music enthusiast and collector O'Neill. The O'Neill text I've read on that site mentions that the Irish piob mor was last heard of at the Battle of Fontenoy in 1745 - which presumably occasions your reference to that date - and was often used, and penalised, in Ireland in the c16/17, being an instrument of war. I think it's assumed that it was the same as the Highland Bagpipe of the time except it only had two drones whereas the Highland had, or came to have, three. Apparently there was a lot of coming and going by pipers between Ireland and Scotland, in the process of learning their craft, so I assume the development of the piob mor and the Highland bagpipes was fairly intertwined. The place to find Irish piob mor tunes is probably in the longer-established Highland repertoire - but don't ask me how they could be told apart!
In The Nether Lorne MSS (mid 18th century) there is a tune called 'one of the Irish Piobaireachd', suggesting that this type of music, although now absent, was once played there. The same tune appears in the MacGregor/Macarthur MS as 'The Bard's Lament'.
Another one with an Irish connection is 'Lament for the Earl of Antrim'. 'The Piper's Warning to his Master' relates to an incident involving Colkitto, who was on his way back to Argyll from Ireland. His family had gone there from Scotland earlier. Perhaps the distinction between the two countries was not so clear as it is now, and the same may be true of the music.
Just remembered - there was a tune displayed here a while back called 'March of th Kings of Laois' which is very similar to one in the highland pipe tradition called 'Duncan macRae of Kintail's Lament'.
A tune called Washington's March, first part identical to that of "The March Of The King Of Laois" and the rest of it comparable to the rest of that tune, is apparently in the c17 Playford collection. It has been recorded by the band Horseplay on their recent album "Roughshod", which is in the Recordings database here.
Ancient music
Ancient music
Does anyone have a handy source for the popular music that would have been played on the piob mor, say, pre 1745 ?
# Posted on December 26th 2006 by Patkiwi
Re: Ancient music
A good source of information is John Gibson's book Traditional Gaelic Piping as it covers a large period it would be a good start. Its certainly a big question to answer one view is that pipers played nothing but piobaireachd whereas if you look at Joseph McDonalds complete theory he gives a version of John Mckechnie, the George Skene manuscript 1715 gives 4 or 5 tunes played on borderpipes but i don't know of any one source.You'd have to do a bit of research and weigh up how reliable that source is.
# Posted on December 26th 2006 by iain beag
Re: Ancient music
I have heard a theory that the first recordings, or early recordings, field recordings etc. or 78's in their beginning, are a pretty good representation of what music has probably sounded like for several hundred years.
The theory states that music has changed and morphed at a way accelerated pace as recordings got more sophisticated and widely dispersed, due to people adopting different influences. So the earliest recordings of any instrument, theoretically, was in a more pure state, as it had stayed within its particular regions and not heard far and wide yet.
If this makes any sense? Just theory, but it sounds logical.
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by irisnevins
Re: Ancient music
Any suggestions where to get recordings of that kind?
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by brotherstorm
Re: Ancient music
http://www.itma.ie/ The Irish traditional music archive has the biggest collection of authentic recordings. They are available to anybody who wishes to study them. However you would have to travel to Dublin to listen or study.
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by Backer
Re: Ancient music
Hey Patkiwi, have you explored this page yet?
http://pybertra.free.fr/ceol/tunes.htm
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Wm Dixon MSS of 1733
Not quite piob mor (but close) and may be of interest nonetheless:
http://www.footstompin.com/books/bagpipemusic/the_master_piper
And the related book about the manuscript:
http://www.footstompin.com/books/bagpipemusic/out_of_the_flames
and a pretty interesting interview with Matt:
http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/inart510.htm
The Out of the Flames CD is quite good, esp. considering that he had only been playing the pipes for a few years when it was done.
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by octogreg
Re: Ancient music
I think I need to qualify my original question, I had the Irish piob mor in mind.
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by Patkiwi
Re: Ancient music
I don't know of any specific piob mor, but have you googled it, along with "early recordings" or something? Pipes may yield more results than piob mor. Likely you've already done that though....
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by irisnevins
Re: Ancient music
http://billhaneman.ie/history.html is a site mentioned in a fairly recent thread here to do with the putting on-line of works by the Irish traditional music enthusiast and collector O'Neill. The O'Neill text I've read on that site mentions that the Irish piob mor was last heard of at the Battle of Fontenoy in 1745 - which presumably occasions your reference to that date - and was often used, and penalised, in Ireland in the c16/17, being an instrument of war. I think it's assumed that it was the same as the Highland Bagpipe of the time except it only had two drones whereas the Highland had, or came to have, three. Apparently there was a lot of coming and going by pipers between Ireland and Scotland, in the process of learning their craft, so I assume the development of the piob mor and the Highland bagpipes was fairly intertwined. The place to find Irish piob mor tunes is probably in the longer-established Highland repertoire - but don't ask me how they could be told apart!
# Posted on December 27th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Ancient music
Try piob mhor.
# Posted on December 28th 2006 by Ron P
Re: Ancient music
I'll take that "h" back from there - I hadn't noticed Patkiwi's 2nd comment re the Irish piob mor, not the Scottish piob mhòr.
# Posted on December 28th 2006 by Ron P
Re: Ancient music
In The Nether Lorne MSS (mid 18th century) there is a tune called 'one of the Irish Piobaireachd', suggesting that this type of music, although now absent, was once played there. The same tune appears in the MacGregor/Macarthur MS as 'The Bard's Lament'.
Another one with an Irish connection is 'Lament for the Earl of Antrim'. 'The Piper's Warning to his Master' relates to an incident involving Colkitto, who was on his way back to Argyll from Ireland. His family had gone there from Scotland earlier. Perhaps the distinction between the two countries was not so clear as it is now, and the same may be true of the music.
# Posted on January 1st 2007 by siubhal
Re: Ancient music
Just remembered - there was a tune displayed here a while back called 'March of th Kings of Laois' which is very similar to one in the highland pipe tradition called 'Duncan macRae of Kintail's Lament'.
# Posted on January 1st 2007 by siubhal
Re: Ancient music
A tune called Washington's March, first part identical to that of "The March Of The King Of Laois" and the rest of it comparable to the rest of that tune, is apparently in the c17 Playford collection. It has been recorded by the band Horseplay on their recent album "Roughshod", which is in the Recordings database here.
# Posted on January 1st 2007 by nicholas