First off, I very much appreciate the suggestions, updates, details folks here post about the most recent or upcoming developments in digital recording devices. Since my mini-disc recorder decided to pack it in (well, the recording part, anyway) after about 18 months, I've been on the look-out for something that would do a decent job of recording sessions, practices, even the occasional gig -- and not cost half the GNP of Lithuania.
So, of late I've been eyeing things like the ZoomH4 and the devices which allow you to use iPods as recorders. Of course, based on customer reviews, they're generally fantastic creations that are also incredibly flawed and constitute about the same risk as mounting the gallows with the expectation that the trap door won't work.
And, based on general experience with electronic devices, both visual and audio, apparently one can expect to have to do the search all over again in about two year's time -- because nothing lasts anymore!
I remember when I used to be happy and reasonably content with my cassette recorder. Somehow, it worked well, at least up to a point, and damned if it didn't stay functioning for the better part of a decade. Now, I'm no Luddite, mind you, because I've heard the difference between analog and digital recording and readily agree that the latter does a much better job.
But I just look forward to the day when the audio tech industry manages to sort itself out enough to come up with something dependable and reasonably priced.
Oh yeah, I'm also awaiting world peace, and the invention of a time travel machine.
How old was the dead mini disc? The newer ones, the MR10 or 100 (I am not looking at it now, so hope I have the model# right.... it's M somthing 10 or 100... the 100 lights up on the display but is $100 more) are really good.
You can only use with PC I hear, but since you had one before shall we assume you have a PC? I have recorded concerts and sessions with the #10 model. The realism is astounding. What I like is that it takes either the gig discs which hold an amazing amount of music, but also the smaller discs if you want to just keep separate things on disc permenantly, and take them with you to listen etc. The discs are so cheap too. The gig ones are about $6.00 and you can buy a whole pack of the 80's for about $6 for a five pack. I am not fond of SD cards you have to keep dumping to PC and they cost a lot more.
These start at $300 but you can get them on ebay for less, I paid about $270 for a new, not refurbished one. I have had lots of luck with other refurb items BTW, and generally get them, I believe they are checked out quite thorougly and tested more than one off the assembly line. I never had a refurb thing quit on me. There may have been none available on the mini disc when I got it. So you could get it for quite a bit less.
I don't know about the old MD players, there's a bit of a learning curve on these. I know people with the old ones and they swear these are vastly improved. You can only allegedly download the music to PC one time.... but you make a wav file and you can really make endless copies from that...sort of silly, but they do that. So guard your wav. file once on PC, back it up.
Speaking of backing up, I use the mini disc as a drive, and the disks for storage, and tranfer from the laptop to the large PC and vice versa. The gig disk, I can back up everything on one, all my files.
I love the thing. I think lacking on it is the ability to EQ before downloading or for recording if you want the bass up etc. You can EQ for listening purposes on the player itself but it doesn't alter the recording. Mine sounds good through the earphones, but once on CD always is too treble for some reason. Easily fixed with a free Audacity download, and some bass boost, if you are wanting a great sounding CD.
These also come with the great little stereo mike bundled for the cost. The mike alone is about $80.
There are other things out there, have not tried them, I am quite happy with this little thing, and am pretty fussy as to sound quality. And the fact there is no SD card. There is also a side thing you can clip on to run with AAA batteries in case your battery kicks the bucket while recording. It will just continue on with the AAAs. They thought of a lot on this thing.
I much prefer the hiss & crackle analogue gives you in live recordings. Why not just keep using the cassette and then just whack it through audacity or some such to hard drive it. That way you also get to have some fun wiring it up and adjusting it, etc. Plus retro is cool, apparently! And you don't need to spend any more geld, get confused, have unrepairable things break down, etc...
Btw world peace has already happened, sts, according to my analogue time machine...
Yeah I hear you about being an analogue purist. I've been burned twice by my iPod -- once was my fault for not charging it so I missed recording a live Kevin Crawford/Martin Hayes/John Doyle set -- very, very sad, yet also educational. The most recent thing was a flooky iPod thing that can be likened to the black cellophane of your audio cassette unravelling. Thank goodness for Apple Geniuses & data retrieval!
IMHO, the #1 main reason for digital recording, esp iPod & iTunes, is ---- ORGANIZATION. What's the point of having all those cassettes lying around, some (or many) unlabelled, & having to FFWD through them real time to get the bit you want (or at least you thought it was there somewhere) only to find out it was somewhere else entirely, or some other tune entirely, etc? When I record a session or whatever, I come home & download it to iTunes & there are all my sessions, all my tunes in one place, easily accessible, by date, tune names, players, etc.... I am one of the most disorganized ppl (ask um, Zina, Will, Dow, bb, Andee, etc) but iTunes changed everything. I used a Mini-Disc recorder for a year when I was first starting out, & where are all those mini-discs now? In some box somewhere languishing & dusty. Meantime, I can pull up all of Catherine McEvoy's classes immediately right now on my iTunes, even slow them down with the Amazing Slow Downer or rip a CD to play in my car.
I guess if you have tons of time to deal with cassettes & LPs & everything, that's awesome. But for me, they're too cumbersome. FWIW, June McCormack uses iTunes in her classes as well, which I think is absolutely brilliant, like to immediately find who else recorded the Hare's Paw or how Peter Horan played a tune on fiddle vs flute. I guess when you find something that works for you, you just stick to it. I love those crackly recordings. However, I'd rather spend that time playing & learning the tunes, rather than searching for them.
I've used Mini-Discs for about 5 or 6 years now. I still have 1 working unit (2 older ones which have not taken the abuse I've put them through well, but that's my fault and not the manufacturer's).
As a birthday gift for myself, I sprung for the Roland Edirol R-09. Really a nice compact little sold-state recorder. It comes with a built-in stereo mic which can be set for High Sensitivity (and they MEAN it) and Low Sensitivity. Besides that control on the back, there is also, Mono/Stereo, AGC On/Off and a Low-Cut Filter On/Off switch.
On the right side of the unit there are Volume Up and Down Switches and Headphone/Optical Out and Hold Switch. Down the left side, there is Power Switch and Input Up and Down Switches and a covered over DC Coaxial power plug.
On the top, between the microphones are Mic In and Line In. All input/output connectors are 3.5mm phone plugs except the AC Adapter connector.
On the front face are three switches for Finder/Menu (gets you to the features and settings of the unit) and Reverb Selection and Repeat. Just below that is a Four-Way Rocker, like many recorders, with the center another switch for Record but also the light to tell you it's recording.
Above the three switches is a small but VERY informative display. The top tells you the name of the file it is playing or recording. Just below on the LEFT in large DIGITS is the Elapsed time of the recording. On the left half of the screen there it has a bar graph showing capacity (dark for empty and light for filled), with small digits below counting down the amount of time you have to record with. Below that level is a Bar Graph type VU meter. and on the line below that it has the Function that is being used now, and Time of Day (ie Clock) as well as Battery Indicator (Full Bright is full and the more dark area, the lower the capacity of the battery.).
You can use the R-09 to record in WAV (16 or 24 bit) and MP3 (64kbps up to 320kbps). Storage is onto SD memory cards, and Edirol says 2G is usable now. A 1G card will hold 1:35 in 16 bit WAV files. MP3 format can give you major time advantage and lower resolutions.
The Memory Card is put in from the bottom along with the 2 AA batteries. Also in the bottom is a USB port. The R-09 can take out the memory card or plug into the USB port without taking out the batteries, because of a clever little clip
All in all, I am quite pleased with the capabilities of this unit. I have used it for recording workshops mainly and a few sessions.
Thanks for the responses thus far. A few follow-ups:
Irisnevins--I suppose I can't really complain too much about the deal I got for the MDR. A local Tweeter affiliate was getting rid of some back inventory, and so they offered a Sony MZN10 (basically new, albeit without the complete package of accessories) for $50. I figured I couldn't go wrong with that price, so I snapped it up. And for 18 months it was fine, especially once I got a decent microphone.
maxF--Well, thing is, I don't have a cassette recorder to use anymore, and getting a new one doesn't appear to make much sense.
Emily (thanks for the Myspace friending, by the way!)--I agree, improved organization is certainly one benefit of the digital approach. I have a new band that will be making its debut next month, and the other week we sat down and just went through our current repertoire in one sitting, and recorded ourselves on my fiddle player's MDR so we could see how we were progressing. I brought back the mini-disc, copied all the files onto a CD and then imported it into iTunes, and e-mailed the MP3s to my bandmates. Great for "instant analysis"! Certainly a lot better than having to copy everything from one cassette to another and then sending via snail-mail.
I have Audacity on my PC at home, but I have to come to grips with it better. Still, I was able to use it a little while back to record myself doing a couple of songs, which I was able to e-mail to my bandmates so they could work on arrangements.
George--Will certainly keep an eye on the Edirol, although right now it's more than I can afford.
Digital recording semi-rant
Digital recording semi-rant
First off, I very much appreciate the suggestions, updates, details folks here post about the most recent or upcoming developments in digital recording devices. Since my mini-disc recorder decided to pack it in (well, the recording part, anyway) after about 18 months, I've been on the look-out for something that would do a decent job of recording sessions, practices, even the occasional gig -- and not cost half the GNP of Lithuania.
So, of late I've been eyeing things like the ZoomH4 and the devices which allow you to use iPods as recorders. Of course, based on customer reviews, they're generally fantastic creations that are also incredibly flawed and constitute about the same risk as mounting the gallows with the expectation that the trap door won't work.
And, based on general experience with electronic devices, both visual and audio, apparently one can expect to have to do the search all over again in about two year's time -- because nothing lasts anymore!
I remember when I used to be happy and reasonably content with my cassette recorder. Somehow, it worked well, at least up to a point, and damned if it didn't stay functioning for the better part of a decade. Now, I'm no Luddite, mind you, because I've heard the difference between analog and digital recording and readily agree that the latter does a much better job.
But I just look forward to the day when the audio tech industry manages to sort itself out enough to come up with something dependable and reasonably priced.
Oh yeah, I'm also awaiting world peace, and the invention of a time travel machine.
# Posted on December 24th 2006 by sts
Re: Digital recording semi-rant
How old was the dead mini disc? The newer ones, the MR10 or 100 (I am not looking at it now, so hope I have the model# right.... it's M somthing 10 or 100... the 100 lights up on the display but is $100 more) are really good.
You can only use with PC I hear, but since you had one before shall we assume you have a PC? I have recorded concerts and sessions with the #10 model. The realism is astounding. What I like is that it takes either the gig discs which hold an amazing amount of music, but also the smaller discs if you want to just keep separate things on disc permenantly, and take them with you to listen etc. The discs are so cheap too. The gig ones are about $6.00 and you can buy a whole pack of the 80's for about $6 for a five pack. I am not fond of SD cards you have to keep dumping to PC and they cost a lot more.
These start at $300 but you can get them on ebay for less, I paid about $270 for a new, not refurbished one. I have had lots of luck with other refurb items BTW, and generally get them, I believe they are checked out quite thorougly and tested more than one off the assembly line. I never had a refurb thing quit on me. There may have been none available on the mini disc when I got it. So you could get it for quite a bit less.
I don't know about the old MD players, there's a bit of a learning curve on these. I know people with the old ones and they swear these are vastly improved. You can only allegedly download the music to PC one time.... but you make a wav file and you can really make endless copies from that...sort of silly, but they do that. So guard your wav. file once on PC, back it up.
Speaking of backing up, I use the mini disc as a drive, and the disks for storage, and tranfer from the laptop to the large PC and vice versa. The gig disk, I can back up everything on one, all my files.
I love the thing. I think lacking on it is the ability to EQ before downloading or for recording if you want the bass up etc. You can EQ for listening purposes on the player itself but it doesn't alter the recording. Mine sounds good through the earphones, but once on CD always is too treble for some reason. Easily fixed with a free Audacity download, and some bass boost, if you are wanting a great sounding CD.
These also come with the great little stereo mike bundled for the cost. The mike alone is about $80.
There are other things out there, have not tried them, I am quite happy with this little thing, and am pretty fussy as to sound quality. And the fact there is no SD card. There is also a side thing you can clip on to run with AAA batteries in case your battery kicks the bucket while recording. It will just continue on with the AAAs. They thought of a lot on this thing.
# Posted on December 24th 2006 by irisnevins
Re: Digital recording semi-rant
I much prefer the hiss & crackle analogue gives you in live recordings. Why not just keep using the cassette and then just whack it through audacity or some such to hard drive it. That way you also get to have some fun wiring it up and adjusting it, etc. Plus retro is cool, apparently! And you don't need to spend any more geld, get confused, have unrepairable things break down, etc...
Btw world peace has already happened, sts, according to my analogue time machine...
Happy holiday
Max
# Posted on December 24th 2006 by pfft
Re: Digital recording semi-rant
Hey sts, how's it going?
Yeah I hear you about being an analogue purist. I've been burned twice by my iPod -- once was my fault for not charging it so I missed recording a live Kevin Crawford/Martin Hayes/John Doyle set -- very, very sad, yet also educational. The most recent thing was a flooky iPod thing that can be likened to the black cellophane of your audio cassette unravelling. Thank goodness for Apple Geniuses & data retrieval!
IMHO, the #1 main reason for digital recording, esp iPod & iTunes, is ---- ORGANIZATION. What's the point of having all those cassettes lying around, some (or many) unlabelled, & having to FFWD through them real time to get the bit you want (or at least you thought it was there somewhere) only to find out it was somewhere else entirely, or some other tune entirely, etc? When I record a session or whatever, I come home & download it to iTunes & there are all my sessions, all my tunes in one place, easily accessible, by date, tune names, players, etc.... I am one of the most disorganized ppl (ask um, Zina, Will, Dow, bb, Andee, etc) but iTunes changed everything. I used a Mini-Disc recorder for a year when I was first starting out, & where are all those mini-discs now? In some box somewhere languishing & dusty. Meantime, I can pull up all of Catherine McEvoy's classes immediately right now on my iTunes, even slow them down with the Amazing Slow Downer or rip a CD to play in my car.
I guess if you have tons of time to deal with cassettes & LPs & everything, that's awesome. But for me, they're too cumbersome. FWIW, June McCormack uses iTunes in her classes as well, which I think is absolutely brilliant, like to immediately find who else recorded the Hare's Paw or how Peter Horan played a tune on fiddle vs flute. I guess when you find something that works for you, you just stick to it. I love those crackly recordings. However, I'd rather spend that time playing & learning the tunes, rather than searching for them.
Anyway, Merry Christmas, etc etc!!!
# Posted on December 24th 2006 by emily_bmore
Re: Digital recording using Edirol R-09
I've used Mini-Discs for about 5 or 6 years now. I still have 1 working unit (2 older ones which have not taken the abuse I've put them through well, but that's my fault and not the manufacturer's).
As a birthday gift for myself, I sprung for the Roland Edirol R-09. Really a nice compact little sold-state recorder. It comes with a built-in stereo mic which can be set for High Sensitivity (and they MEAN it) and Low Sensitivity. Besides that control on the back, there is also, Mono/Stereo, AGC On/Off and a Low-Cut Filter On/Off switch.
On the right side of the unit there are Volume Up and Down Switches and Headphone/Optical Out and Hold Switch. Down the left side, there is Power Switch and Input Up and Down Switches and a covered over DC Coaxial power plug.
On the top, between the microphones are Mic In and Line In. All input/output connectors are 3.5mm phone plugs except the AC Adapter connector.
On the front face are three switches for Finder/Menu (gets you to the features and settings of the unit) and Reverb Selection and Repeat. Just below that is a Four-Way Rocker, like many recorders, with the center another switch for Record but also the light to tell you it's recording.
Above the three switches is a small but VERY informative display. The top tells you the name of the file it is playing or recording. Just below on the LEFT in large DIGITS is the Elapsed time of the recording. On the left half of the screen there it has a bar graph showing capacity (dark for empty and light for filled), with small digits below counting down the amount of time you have to record with. Below that level is a Bar Graph type VU meter. and on the line below that it has the Function that is being used now, and Time of Day (ie Clock) as well as Battery Indicator (Full Bright is full and the more dark area, the lower the capacity of the battery.).
You can use the R-09 to record in WAV (16 or 24 bit) and MP3 (64kbps up to 320kbps). Storage is onto SD memory cards, and Edirol says 2G is usable now. A 1G card will hold 1:35 in 16 bit WAV files. MP3 format can give you major time advantage and lower resolutions.
The Memory Card is put in from the bottom along with the 2 AA batteries. Also in the bottom is a USB port. The R-09 can take out the memory card or plug into the USB port without taking out the batteries, because of a clever little clip
All in all, I am quite pleased with the capabilities of this unit. I have used it for recording workshops mainly and a few sessions.
Merry Christmas!
# Posted on December 25th 2006 by George Seto
Re: Digital recording semi-rant
the newest version of sonicstage allows you to upload hi-md (the newest players) files unlimited amount of times.
# Posted on December 25th 2006 by daiv
Re: Digital recording semi-rant
Thanks for the responses thus far. A few follow-ups:
Irisnevins--I suppose I can't really complain too much about the deal I got for the MDR. A local Tweeter affiliate was getting rid of some back inventory, and so they offered a Sony MZN10 (basically new, albeit without the complete package of accessories) for $50. I figured I couldn't go wrong with that price, so I snapped it up. And for 18 months it was fine, especially once I got a decent microphone.
maxF--Well, thing is, I don't have a cassette recorder to use anymore, and getting a new one doesn't appear to make much sense.
Emily (thanks for the Myspace friending, by the way!)--I agree, improved organization is certainly one benefit of the digital approach. I have a new band that will be making its debut next month, and the other week we sat down and just went through our current repertoire in one sitting, and recorded ourselves on my fiddle player's MDR so we could see how we were progressing. I brought back the mini-disc, copied all the files onto a CD and then imported it into iTunes, and e-mailed the MP3s to my bandmates. Great for "instant analysis"! Certainly a lot better than having to copy everything from one cassette to another and then sending via snail-mail.
I have Audacity on my PC at home, but I have to come to grips with it better. Still, I was able to use it a little while back to record myself doing a couple of songs, which I was able to e-mail to my bandmates so they could work on arrangements.
George--Will certainly keep an eye on the Edirol, although right now it's more than I can afford.
# Posted on December 25th 2006 by sts