Could any of the more experienced fiddlers here help me through the withdrawal I'm experiencing as I try to get through four weeks without any lessons?
I'm a novice - hadn't so much as touched a bow six months ago - and I'm in the process of changing the way I'm bowing some of my tunes. I'm finding that crossing among the G, D, and A strings on a single bow stroke is fine, but crossing from the A to the E on a downbow, or the other way on an upbow, is liable to result in a squeaking noise so unpleasant I have to stop playing right then and there. After some experimentation (oh, my poor neighbours!) I found that the most reliable way to get around this is to ease up on the bow right before crossing strings, to the point that I'm just grazing the E string. Although this tends to result in a note, as opposed to a squeak, almost all the time, I find it dissatisfying for a number of reasons:
1. Tone leaves much to be desired. I don't know if I could get around this by just starting to increase bow pressure =immediately= after I've arrived on the E string (in the case of crossing from the A to E strings), or by releasing pressure =just before= crossing from the E to A strings.
2. Since I'm barely grazing the E string, my bow will often slip. Again, I don't know if this is something I can or should get around just with practice controlling pressure just before and just after crossing.
3. "More pressure on the bow!" has become a refrain on the part of my teacher, who's probably right.
So - how do folks here handle this? For what it's worth, it's the Kesh Jig that's giving me the most trouble with this squeaking.
I have had the squeak come and go in my playing, and it seems like different things have been the cause at different times. For what you are describing, it sounds like maybe you are not tilting the bow down enough to be in the right position for playing the E string...transitioning the bow angle from the A string to the E string requires a quick precise adjustment in position and it's easy to end up not quite tilting the bow far enough.
Anyhow, keep experimenting and keep talking to your teacher about what you experience. You will overcome this.
This isn't an uncommon problem (see previous threads below).
The key is to play "in" the string as you go from the A to the E. The E takes a different touch with the bow--it's at a high tension, so takes more push to make it vibrate. Too little pressure and it whistles, but too much pressure and it sounds harsh and shrill.
Some people say they've had better luck with a wound E string. Others swear by certain rosins, fine tuning the slots in the bridge and nut, etc. For me, what banished the whistling E was paying close attention to a slight increase in weighting the bow as you come onto the E string. YMMV.
Hi TDM, you know I'm a beginner just like you, but I had this same exact problem and only fixed it recently. It's what your teacher is telling you---my teacher was telling me the same thing, I needed to play "in the string", constantly pushing the bow hair into the string to bring out the sound. He said it was like I was afraid to play loud. I swear he told me this for months before I got it though my dense head somehow. And you know what? I haven't heard a squeak for at least two weeks now.
Another thing to try is more rosin on the bow. I hadn't been using enough (noticed that in a lesson just last week) and now that I am, it's much easier to get the sound out, I find I don't have to push as hard on the bow either. Good luck!
I've never heard a convincing explanation of the root cause of the Whistling E String, but the advice here seems to help a lot in dealing with it. I suspect it's a combination of several things - including humidity, rosin build-up on string and bow, karma and the phase of the moon - that come together occasionally to torture me. Some days I struggle to avoid it and other days I can't produce it intentionally.
The advice here, and on the previous discussions to which Will has helpfully given you links, is sound. However, bear in mind that it might not be your fault. It could be the setup of the fiddle.
In particular, have a look at the top nut where the E string crosses over it. If it's filed too close to the fingerboard, you will get a squeak not matter *what* you do. Also, how old are the strings? More than 6 months is old in my book, and I'd be changing them.
If in doubt, it may be worth taking your fiddle to the sort of person who I believe is called a 'luthier' over your side of the pond - I'm sure a good one will at least look at it for you and give you advice for nothing. It may be that a simple repair will solve the problem.
Thank you, everyone, for your quick advice! Will - that third thread you posted looks like it will be particularly helpful, and I'll have to read through it in more detail later.
I want to stress that it's pretty much ONLY when crossing to or from the E string on a single bow stroke that I get the squeaking, and that when i bow the E string separately, it's fine. And, maddeningly, the very thing that seems to solve the E-string-squeaking-when-bowed-separately problem (namely, applying more pressure) appears to *cause* the E-string-squeaking-when-slurred-with-a-note-on-the-A-string problem. Argh! Kennedy - it's been a few weeks since my teacher has had to remind me to apply more pressure when playing (though, it certainly took awhile!), and I'm still not entirely in the habit of applying sufficient pressure. That is, I can do it, but I need to be consciously thinking about it. And that's no small part of why I am hesitant to solve the squeaking problem by easing up on the bow - I'm trying to get to the stage where, as you say, playing "in the string" is something that I'm doing automatically, and that's not going to come if I have to just brush against the E string when crossing!
Regarding the advice on changing strings (my E is...oh, five months old now? Yes, it was sometime in July that I broke the last one), having the fiddle checked out, cleaning the strings (er, haven't done that in awhile...that one's easy enough), using different rosin...when I started this thread, I considered mentioning that I am playing on a rental, a student model for which I signed a waiver indicating that I would be liable for up to a whopping $250 in damage in the event that anything should happen to the instrument. And this includes rosin, case and bow, and we're talking Canadian dollars, too ;). So, benhall, I'm not playing anything worth bringing to a luthier to have repaired or even examined. But with less than six months of playing history, I feel obnoxious even suggesting that "it's not me, it's the fiddle", even when, sometimes, it definitely *is* the fiddle. (In particular, it is NOT my fault that every now and again at the session, with no advance warning, my G string ungoes an identity crisis and decides to become this useless F-and-a-half string. Argh!) Nevertheless, I'm definitely outgrowing my instrument, and will be in the market for a new one sometime in the next few months. (Which is a whole 'nother thread, of course.)
Couple more things to think about:
1. Even the best players produce the dreaded whistle now and then. But they know how to instantly correct it, so it doesn't fill a whole dotted quarter note's worth of time.
2. Make sure you aren't inadvertently letting a left hand finger touch the E string--this will prevent the string from vibrating, giving it no choice but to whistle.
3. As Ben says, when slurring from the A string to the E, make sure your arm changes planes fully. Part of the problem may be that your arm is too high on the A plane. Anticipate the drop to a near vertical bow position on the E by "cheating" toward that plane while still on the A.
4. It helps most of the people I teach when they stop thinking in terms of bow "pressure," and more in terms of allowing the weight of the bow and your hand to more fully rest on the strings. I also like Grappelli's notion of pretending that you're strumming the strings with your fingers, and the bow just happens to be between the two. The idea is to really feel the string in your fingers--pay close attention to this and you'll soon be able to feel the difference in vibration between each string. The E string vibration is the most subtle, hence the tendendcy to whistle.
5. Be patient with yourself. Most of us went through this same phase. This too shall pass.
Interesting thread as I also suffer from intermitent E-string squeak, so I'll add my thanks to the contributors.
One thing a professional player mentioned to me a while back (off his own bat, because he used to have the problem too) was that he now purchases and swears by special non-squeaky E-strings. I didn't pursue him on this as I wasn't in the midst of a particularly squeaky phase at the time, so I don't know the brand name and haven't got round to searching on the internet for them yet, but it might be worth investigating.
Something's that worth checking is how relaxed your right arm from the shoulder to the fingers is. If everything is relaxed then the bow will naturally find its line of least resistance across the strings. That is it will naturally try to be at right angles to the length of the strings. This is bound to improve tone. In addition, when you've got this nailed, you'll find that the bow doesn't wander up and down the strings and you'll find you won't have to be checking it by eye all the time.
It also helps if your E actually works. I've had a dud E now for a few weeks, and every time I land the bow on it it starts sounding like a harmonic. My teacher has the same thing happen to him; I'm just to cheap to get a new string since I'll be replacing this instrument in a few days (at least, it's a few days now; I had weeks when it first started happening) anyway.
Mmm - I bought a Kaplan non whistling E - and can still make it whistle! Definitely a technique thing. Cos I know my bowing is a bit all over the place. (Can get great accidental double stops and get the weakest useless doublestops when I actually WANT them).
Squeaky E string
Squeaky E string
Could any of the more experienced fiddlers here help me through the withdrawal I'm experiencing as I try to get through four weeks without any lessons?
I'm a novice - hadn't so much as touched a bow six months ago - and I'm in the process of changing the way I'm bowing some of my tunes. I'm finding that crossing among the G, D, and A strings on a single bow stroke is fine, but crossing from the A to the E on a downbow, or the other way on an upbow, is liable to result in a squeaking noise so unpleasant I have to stop playing right then and there. After some experimentation (oh, my poor neighbours!) I found that the most reliable way to get around this is to ease up on the bow right before crossing strings, to the point that I'm just grazing the E string. Although this tends to result in a note, as opposed to a squeak, almost all the time, I find it dissatisfying for a number of reasons:
1. Tone leaves much to be desired. I don't know if I could get around this by just starting to increase bow pressure =immediately= after I've arrived on the E string (in the case of crossing from the A to E strings), or by releasing pressure =just before= crossing from the E to A strings.
2. Since I'm barely grazing the E string, my bow will often slip. Again, I don't know if this is something I can or should get around just with practice controlling pressure just before and just after crossing.
3. "More pressure on the bow!" has become a refrain on the part of my teacher, who's probably right.
So - how do folks here handle this? For what it's worth, it's the Kesh Jig that's giving me the most trouble with this squeaking.
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Squeaky E string
I have had the squeak come and go in my playing, and it seems like different things have been the cause at different times. For what you are describing, it sounds like maybe you are not tilting the bow down enough to be in the right position for playing the E string...transitioning the bow angle from the A string to the E string requires a quick precise adjustment in position and it's easy to end up not quite tilting the bow far enough.
Anyhow, keep experimenting and keep talking to your teacher about what you experience. You will overcome this.
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Squeaky E string
This isn't an uncommon problem (see previous threads below).
The key is to play "in" the string as you go from the A to the E. The E takes a different touch with the bow--it's at a high tension, so takes more push to make it vibrate. Too little pressure and it whistles, but too much pressure and it sounds harsh and shrill.
Some people say they've had better luck with a wound E string. Others swear by certain rosins, fine tuning the slots in the bridge and nut, etc. For me, what banished the whistling E was paying close attention to a slight increase in weighting the bow as you come onto the E string. YMMV.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/919
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/7462
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11487
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/7664
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by Will CPT
Re: Squeaky E string
Hi TDM, you know I'm a beginner just like you, but I had this same exact problem and only fixed it recently. It's what your teacher is telling you---my teacher was telling me the same thing, I needed to play "in the string", constantly pushing the bow hair into the string to bring out the sound. He said it was like I was afraid to play loud. I swear he told me this for months before I got it though my dense head somehow. And you know what? I haven't heard a squeak for at least two weeks now.
Another thing to try is more rosin on the bow. I hadn't been using enough (noticed that in a lesson just last week) and now that I am, it's much easier to get the sound out, I find I don't have to push as hard on the bow either. Good luck!
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Squeaky E string
I've never heard a convincing explanation of the root cause of the Whistling E String, but the advice here seems to help a lot in dealing with it. I suspect it's a combination of several things - including humidity, rosin build-up on string and bow, karma and the phase of the moon - that come together occasionally to torture me. Some days I struggle to avoid it and other days I can't produce it intentionally.
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Squeaky E string
The advice here, and on the previous discussions to which Will has helpfully given you links, is sound. However, bear in mind that it might not be your fault. It could be the setup of the fiddle.
In particular, have a look at the top nut where the E string crosses over it. If it's filed too close to the fingerboard, you will get a squeak not matter *what* you do. Also, how old are the strings? More than 6 months is old in my book, and I'd be changing them.
If in doubt, it may be worth taking your fiddle to the sort of person who I believe is called a 'luthier' over your side of the pond - I'm sure a good one will at least look at it for you and give you advice for nothing. It may be that a simple repair will solve the problem.
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by benhall.1
Re: Squeaky E string
Thank you, everyone, for your quick advice! Will - that third thread you posted looks like it will be particularly helpful, and I'll have to read through it in more detail later.
I want to stress that it's pretty much ONLY when crossing to or from the E string on a single bow stroke that I get the squeaking, and that when i bow the E string separately, it's fine. And, maddeningly, the very thing that seems to solve the E-string-squeaking-when-bowed-separately problem (namely, applying more pressure) appears to *cause* the E-string-squeaking-when-slurred-with-a-note-on-the-A-string problem. Argh! Kennedy - it's been a few weeks since my teacher has had to remind me to apply more pressure when playing (though, it certainly took awhile!), and I'm still not entirely in the habit of applying sufficient pressure. That is, I can do it, but I need to be consciously thinking about it. And that's no small part of why I am hesitant to solve the squeaking problem by easing up on the bow - I'm trying to get to the stage where, as you say, playing "in the string" is something that I'm doing automatically, and that's not going to come if I have to just brush against the E string when crossing!
Regarding the advice on changing strings (my E is...oh, five months old now? Yes, it was sometime in July that I broke the last one), having the fiddle checked out, cleaning the strings (er, haven't done that in awhile...that one's easy enough), using different rosin...when I started this thread, I considered mentioning that I am playing on a rental, a student model for which I signed a waiver indicating that I would be liable for up to a whopping $250 in damage in the event that anything should happen to the instrument. And this includes rosin, case and bow, and we're talking Canadian dollars, too ;). So, benhall, I'm not playing anything worth bringing to a luthier to have repaired or even examined. But with less than six months of playing history, I feel obnoxious even suggesting that "it's not me, it's the fiddle", even when, sometimes, it definitely *is* the fiddle. (In particular, it is NOT my fault that every now and again at the session, with no advance warning, my G string ungoes an identity crisis and decides to become this useless F-and-a-half string. Argh!) Nevertheless, I'm definitely outgrowing my instrument, and will be in the market for a new one sometime in the next few months. (Which is a whole 'nother thread, of course.)
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Squeaky E string
Sounds like you're on the right track.
Couple more things to think about:
1. Even the best players produce the dreaded whistle now and then. But they know how to instantly correct it, so it doesn't fill a whole dotted quarter note's worth of time.
2. Make sure you aren't inadvertently letting a left hand finger touch the E string--this will prevent the string from vibrating, giving it no choice but to whistle.
3. As Ben says, when slurring from the A string to the E, make sure your arm changes planes fully. Part of the problem may be that your arm is too high on the A plane. Anticipate the drop to a near vertical bow position on the E by "cheating" toward that plane while still on the A.
4. It helps most of the people I teach when they stop thinking in terms of bow "pressure," and more in terms of allowing the weight of the bow and your hand to more fully rest on the strings. I also like Grappelli's notion of pretending that you're strumming the strings with your fingers, and the bow just happens to be between the two. The idea is to really feel the string in your fingers--pay close attention to this and you'll soon be able to feel the difference in vibration between each string. The E string vibration is the most subtle, hence the tendendcy to whistle.
5. Be patient with yourself. Most of us went through this same phase. This too shall pass.
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by Will CPT
Re: Squeaky E string
Interesting thread as I also suffer from intermitent E-string squeak, so I'll add my thanks to the contributors.
One thing a professional player mentioned to me a while back (off his own bat, because he used to have the problem too) was that he now purchases and swears by special non-squeaky E-strings. I didn't pursue him on this as I wasn't in the midst of a particularly squeaky phase at the time, so I don't know the brand name and haven't got round to searching on the internet for them yet, but it might be worth investigating.
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by samuelbarros
Re: Squeaky E string
Kaplan! That's the name of the one we have had good reports about...
Mark
# Posted on December 19th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: Squeaky E string
Something's that worth checking is how relaxed your right arm from the shoulder to the fingers is. If everything is relaxed then the bow will naturally find its line of least resistance across the strings. That is it will naturally try to be at right angles to the length of the strings. This is bound to improve tone. In addition, when you've got this nailed, you'll find that the bow doesn't wander up and down the strings and you'll find you won't have to be checking it by eye all the time.
# Posted on December 20th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Squeaky E string
It also helps if your E actually works. I've had a dud E now for a few weeks, and every time I land the bow on it it starts sounding like a harmonic. My teacher has the same thing happen to him; I'm just to cheap to get a new string since I'll be replacing this instrument in a few days (at least, it's a few days now; I had weeks when it first started happening) anyway.
# Posted on December 20th 2006 by Ben314
Re: Squeaky E string
Mmm - I bought a Kaplan non whistling E - and can still make it whistle! Definitely a technique thing. Cos I know my bowing is a bit all over the place. (Can get great accidental double stops and get the weakest useless doublestops when I actually WANT them).
# Posted on December 21st 2006 by TheCurvyFiddle