Hi - I'm a whistle (and fiddle) player looking to make the move to flute. I know that there have been numerous discussions about choosing flutes before, and I think I've read them all! I'm going for keyless, and on the basis of what's gone before I've narrowed it down to 3. I could really do with some help now in making a final decision.
First up comes the Casey Burns Folk Flute. Sounds good and the description suggests it's ideal for a flute virgin like me. However... Some discussions on the web say that if you plan to play in sessions (as I do) you should definitely get a flute with a tuning slide, and the CB doesn't have one.
So then I looked at the Dixon Polymer 3 piece keyless. Again reasonably good reviews, but disparaged by some. Does have a tuning slide though.
Finally, and upping the ante a bit on the finances, a delrin Seery. Seems to get pretty good reviews all round (except for some stuff I read about a keyed flute, which wouldn't be relevant in my case).
The only flute I've ever really paid attention to listening solo (as opposed to as part of a session) is a friend's flute made by Chris Wilkes, which needless to say sounded wonderful. I could hardly get a sound out of it though (doesn't bode well I hear you say... )
Now just to forestall one obvious idea, I'd like to point out that I ain't rich, so a nice blackwood Wilkes (assuming I could wait that long) is out of the question (even the Seery will involve serious negotiations with 'the Chancellor')!
So there you go - cards on the table, what do you reckon? Thanks as always for your comments and suggestions.
Hi Rhod--long time, no post! Good to see you're still around.
I've played specimens of all three of those flutes, so here's my two cents.
The Seery takes more air than the other two, but it's also plenty loud for a session once you get your lips in shape. The Dixon is such a small bore flute, you may not be able to get enough volume in a noisy session. The Casey Burns is sessionable, and it is tuneable (by adjusting the headjoint on the tenon)--of the three, the Burns was the easiest and most rewarding to play, and produced the "woodiest" tone.
Another option is to get a Doug Tipple pvc flute. For about $90 USD you can get keyless plastic flute with a "Fajardo-Tipple Wedge" (which really helps tone and power). I have a gray pvc with a wedge as my main "rough travel" flute. It's easy to fill, comfortably in the hands, intonation is excellent, and the tone and power compare well to the Casey Burns folk flute. Go to Doug's web site for more info, including sound clips of tunes played on his flutes. I think you'll be surprised. http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/home
If I were in your shoes, I'd go with a Tipple or Burns and start saving for that Wilkes (or Grinter, Olwell, Hamilton, Morvan, etc.). Then you'll have a decent travel flute.
Thanks for the welcome whoosis - been lurking long and hard (and changed to whistle from fiddle because of persistent shoulder problems so been practicing, practicing, practicing...). Also singing in a rock band these days. Jeeez - at MY age...
Thanks for the advice re the Doug Tipple - and I'm also grateful that you might just have saved me a ton of cash and some 'delicate' discussions with the mrs!. The Tipple enters the race straight in at number 2 (after the Burns). with the Seery currently at no. 3 and the Dixon in 4th place. Let's see what others have to say.
And enjoy fluting, whatever type you get. At leat with the Burns, Tipple, or Seery you'll be able to recoup your money (or maybe even turn a profit) if you ever decide to sell them.
I've found flute a lot easier to learn than fiddle was, even accounting for the fact that I know the music itself better than I did 30 years ago when I was learning fiddle. Flute is in many ways simpler--six holes, fingers all doing basically the same thing, breath like you're singing the tune. The embouchure and breathing certainly are challenging, but in a rewarding way, and not as abstract as guiding horsehair on a stick at arm's length over the strings. In short, if you learned to bow a fiddle, getting a tune out of a flute will come along soon enough. And yet there's no end to the nuances and music you can get out of one.
As I have sad before, the Folk Flute is a hell of a lot of Flute for the price. I own one of Casey's professional models, a Boxwood Pratten, and I like it a lot. My Burns has no tuning slide and I still play at sessions and the Flute is still tunable. I second the reccomendation for the FF. One of my first Flutes was a Tipple and it served its purpose well.
Out of the Seery and the Dixon (I have both), the Seery has a tuning slide whilst the Dixon is adjusted by the tenon joint on the head.
The Seery is a bit louder but takes a very focused embochure to "fill", while the Dixon is a lot easier to get a sound out of for a beginning player. I would add that I have never had a problem with volume on my Dixon, it's my main session flute.
Why? well, I usually either walk or cycle to a session. The Dixon dismantles into 3 equal-length pieces, and fits very neatly into my pocket, whereas the Seery doesn't. That's the only reason I favour the Dixon over the Seery, in all other respects there's not much difference that I can find.
I'll vote for the Seery - it's a true session cannon and the Burns folk flute may or may not be tunable for you...here's a story about tuning and how we all each play:
A local flute playing friend sent me an antique 5 key flute. With the slide pulled out so far the headjoint was about to fall off, I could play at A=442. My friend in comparison can play at A=440 with the headjoint pushed all the way in. The moral is obviously unless you play just like the maker a slideless flute carries the risk of not being tunable for you.
I'd vote for the Seery...Tom Doorley (did I spell that right?) didn't sound too bad on one, did he?
P.S. The Tipple has a long tenon--can be tuned over a fairly wide range.
I know it sounds weird to give a big thumbs up to a cylindrical pvc flute that only costs $90. So anyone in doubt as to what the Tipple can do should go to Doug's site and listen to the sounds clips. Granted, a beginner won't sound that solid for some time, but it won't be the flute's fault.
I started with a Tipple as well. A wonderful flute that now serves as my indestructible travel flute. Very loud and easy to play. The plastic flute is really nice as you can leave it assembled for those quick tunes. Definitely get the wedge. not only does it bring it in tune it improves the tone. You can't beat the price.
If money is a major concern, the Tipple will be fine to start on. However, if you can swing it, you'll be better served in the long run playing a conical bored flute. The Burns is great (don't worry about the tuning slide). I think it's the best sub $500-$600 flute available. I'm not so keen on the Dixon. The Seery is fine, but for about the same price, I prefer the M&E.
Overall, your best bang for the buck is the Burns Folk Flute.
I have a Dixon 3 pce and I can generally get a similar volume as from my Hamilton, though perhaps I will further improve on the latter. I don't think it's quite correct to say that Dixon 3 pce is a small bore flute - looking at mine, the bore is 18-19mm at head joint and very similar to Hammy and Doyle flutes. The tone holes on the Dixon are considerably smaller than either above. I'm not so keen on the using the head joint though on the Dixon for tuning - bit wobbly and overall I would prefer the wooden flutes to polymer both for aesthetics and grip. The polymer can get a bit greasy/ slippery compared to wood.
Thanks to all as usual for the great replies, and particular thanks to whoosis for the encouraging words - I'm a mite nervous about letting go of all the investment of time into the fiddle (20 years) and starting from scratch, but we'll see how it goes. No doubt I'll be re-visiting whoosis' words in the next few months just to see me through .
As to flute, I still haven't decided but M&E is now up there too, neck and neck with the Burns and Tipple.
I haven't heard about the problem of polymer flutes becoming slippery before. That may sway me in the direction of the Burns, but then again the easy-care nature of the poly flutes sways me back the other way.
I've played both wooden and polymer flutes - with and without a beard so that's not a factor - and I don't find either slippery, even when playing in 104 heat and when I'm sweating heavily (busking is hell sometimes...which may be why I don't do it too often).
I'll chime in a vote for the M&E. I don't find it better than the Seery - just different like a pratten is from a rudall derived flute. I sold my Seery to get a keyed M&E. I'm happy with it, but I'd be happy with either.
Rhod, part of the diifficulty here is that each person's lips and hands are different, and so what works great for one fluter is awkward for another. Also, your relationship to the flute will change as you learn and improve, so you may end up wanting a different embouchure, tone hole size or spacing, etc., than whatever you start on.
The beauty of all this is that most of the flutes you're considering hold their resale value very well. When you want to try something different (and you will), you will likely get your money back, or most of it.
Okay - thanks for all the help and encouragement. I've decided to go for the M&E polymer model, and have ordered one direct from Michael today. Thanks for the link Wil, and you're right - it's time to jump right in and have a go.
Get ready for a flood of "... how the %$*! do you get a sound out of this thing?" type questions. Now, where's that whistle...?
Hi, Rhod. Like you I'm learning Irish flute, and can't offer you expert advice, but here's what I did with a slippery ceramic flute: A spot of glue--in the case of your polmer MAKE SURE it's a glue that's SAFE on the material--on points where fingers/thumbs are slipping and pour a little sand on the glue. Alternatively, if you happen to stagger on a flat and narrow textile bracelet, like those made by Native people in Central America, it can be sewn tight aound the flute circumference in the trouble spot. Looks nice too.
Help me to choose a flute
Help me to choose a flute
Hi - I'm a whistle (and fiddle) player looking to make the move to flute. I know that there have been numerous discussions about choosing flutes before, and I think I've read them all! I'm going for keyless, and on the basis of what's gone before I've narrowed it down to 3. I could really do with some help now in making a final decision.
like me. However... Some discussions on the web say that if you plan to play in sessions (as I do) you should definitely get a flute with a tuning slide, and the CB doesn't have one.
)
First up comes the Casey Burns Folk Flute. Sounds good and the description suggests it's ideal for a flute virgin
So then I looked at the Dixon Polymer 3 piece keyless. Again reasonably good reviews, but disparaged by some. Does have a tuning slide though.
Finally, and upping the ante a bit on the finances, a delrin Seery. Seems to get pretty good reviews all round (except for some stuff I read about a keyed flute, which wouldn't be relevant in my case).
The only flute I've ever really paid attention to listening solo (as opposed to as part of a session) is a friend's flute made by Chris Wilkes, which needless to say sounded wonderful. I could hardly get a sound out of it though (doesn't bode well I hear you say...
Now just to forestall one obvious idea, I'd like to point out that I ain't rich, so a nice blackwood Wilkes (assuming I could wait that long) is out of the question (even the Seery will involve serious negotiations with 'the Chancellor')!
So there you go - cards on the table, what do you reckon? Thanks as always for your comments and suggestions.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Rhod
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Hi Rhod--long time, no post! Good to see you're still around.
I've played specimens of all three of those flutes, so here's my two cents.
The Seery takes more air than the other two, but it's also plenty loud for a session once you get your lips in shape. The Dixon is such a small bore flute, you may not be able to get enough volume in a noisy session. The Casey Burns is sessionable, and it is tuneable (by adjusting the headjoint on the tenon)--of the three, the Burns was the easiest and most rewarding to play, and produced the "woodiest" tone.
Another option is to get a Doug Tipple pvc flute. For about $90 USD you can get keyless plastic flute with a "Fajardo-Tipple Wedge" (which really helps tone and power). I have a gray pvc with a wedge as my main "rough travel" flute. It's easy to fill, comfortably in the hands, intonation is excellent, and the tone and power compare well to the Casey Burns folk flute. Go to Doug's web site for more info, including sound clips of tunes played on his flutes. I think you'll be surprised. http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/home
If I were in your shoes, I'd go with a Tipple or Burns and start saving for that Wilkes (or Grinter, Olwell, Hamilton, Morvan, etc.). Then you'll have a decent travel flute.
As I said, just my two cents.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Thanks for the welcome whoosis - been lurking long and hard (and changed to whistle from fiddle because of persistent shoulder problems so been practicing, practicing, practicing...). Also singing in a rock band these days. Jeeez - at MY age...
Thanks for the advice re the Doug Tipple - and I'm also grateful that you might just have saved me a ton of cash and some 'delicate' discussions with the mrs!. The Tipple enters the race straight in at number 2 (after the Burns). with the Seery currently at no. 3 and the Dixon in 4th place. Let's see what others have to say.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Rhod
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Rock on!
And enjoy fluting, whatever type you get. At leat with the Burns, Tipple, or Seery you'll be able to recoup your money (or maybe even turn a profit) if you ever decide to sell them.
I've found flute a lot easier to learn than fiddle was, even accounting for the fact that I know the music itself better than I did 30 years ago when I was learning fiddle. Flute is in many ways simpler--six holes, fingers all doing basically the same thing, breath like you're singing the tune. The embouchure and breathing certainly are challenging, but in a rewarding way, and not as abstract as guiding horsehair on a stick at arm's length over the strings. In short, if you learned to bow a fiddle, getting a tune out of a flute will come along soon enough. And yet there's no end to the nuances and music you can get out of one.
Cheers!
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Help me to choose a flute
As I have sad before, the Folk Flute is a hell of a lot of Flute for the price. I own one of Casey's professional models, a Boxwood Pratten, and I like it a lot. My Burns has no tuning slide and I still play at sessions and the Flute is still tunable. I second the reccomendation for the FF. One of my first Flutes was a Tipple and it served its purpose well.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Out of the Seery and the Dixon (I have both), the Seery has a tuning slide whilst the Dixon is adjusted by the tenon joint on the head.
The Seery is a bit louder but takes a very focused embochure to "fill", while the Dixon is a lot easier to get a sound out of for a beginning player. I would add that I have never had a problem with volume on my Dixon, it's my main session flute.
Why? well, I usually either walk or cycle to a session. The Dixon dismantles into 3 equal-length pieces, and fits very neatly into my pocket, whereas the Seery doesn't. That's the only reason I favour the Dixon over the Seery, in all other respects there's not much difference that I can find.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Wurzel
Re: Help me to choose a flute
AND;
Wherever possible, play before you buy, and get someone else to play it, so that you can hear what others will hear once you get going.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Help me to choose a flute
I'll vote for the Seery - it's a true session cannon and the Burns folk flute may or may not be tunable for you...here's a story about tuning and how we all each play:
A local flute playing friend sent me an antique 5 key flute. With the slide pulled out so far the headjoint was about to fall off, I could play at A=442. My friend in comparison can play at A=440 with the headjoint pushed all the way in. The moral is obviously unless you play just like the maker a slideless flute carries the risk of not being tunable for you.
I'd vote for the Seery...Tom Doorley (did I spell that right?) didn't sound too bad on one, did he?
Eric
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Jayhawk
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Hey look, I voted Chicago style...twice.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Jayhawk
Re: Help me to choose a flute
P.S. The Tipple has a long tenon--can be tuned over a fairly wide range.
I know it sounds weird to give a big thumbs up to a cylindrical pvc flute that only costs $90. So anyone in doubt as to what the Tipple can do should go to Doug's site and listen to the sounds clips. Granted, a beginner won't sound that solid for some time, but it won't be the flute's fault.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Help me to choose a flute
I started with a Tipple as well. A wonderful flute that now serves as my indestructible travel flute. Very loud and easy to play. The plastic flute is really nice as you can leave it assembled for those quick tunes. Definitely get the wedge. not only does it bring it in tune it improves the tone. You can't beat the price.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by ottoschmelk
Re: Help me to choose a flute
If money is a major concern, the Tipple will be fine to start on. However, if you can swing it, you'll be better served in the long run playing a conical bored flute. The Burns is great (don't worry about the tuning slide). I think it's the best sub $500-$600 flute available. I'm not so keen on the Dixon. The Seery is fine, but for about the same price, I prefer the M&E.
Overall, your best bang for the buck is the Burns Folk Flute.
# Posted on December 12th 2006 by mcswiss
Re: Help me to choose a flute
I have a Dixon 3 pce and I can generally get a similar volume as from my Hamilton, though perhaps I will further improve on the latter. I don't think it's quite correct to say that Dixon 3 pce is a small bore flute - looking at mine, the bore is 18-19mm at head joint and very similar to Hammy and Doyle flutes. The tone holes on the Dixon are considerably smaller than either above. I'm not so keen on the using the head joint though on the Dixon for tuning - bit wobbly and overall I would prefer the wooden flutes to polymer both for aesthetics and grip. The polymer can get a bit greasy/ slippery compared to wood.
# Posted on December 13th 2006 by the wounded hussar
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Thanks to all as usual for the great replies, and particular thanks to whoosis for the encouraging words - I'm a mite nervous about letting go of all the investment of time into the fiddle (20 years) and starting from scratch, but we'll see how it goes. No doubt I'll be re-visiting whoosis' words in the next few months just to see me through
.
As to flute, I still haven't decided but M&E is now up there too, neck and neck with the Burns and Tipple.
I haven't heard about the problem of polymer flutes becoming slippery before. That may sway me in the direction of the Burns, but then again the easy-care nature of the poly flutes sways me back the other way.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....
# Posted on December 13th 2006 by Rhod
Re: Help me to choose a flute
I've played both wooden and polymer flutes - with and without a beard so that's not a factor - and I don't find either slippery, even when playing in 104 heat and when I'm sweating heavily (busking is hell sometimes...which may be why I don't do it too often).
I'll chime in a vote for the M&E. I don't find it better than the Seery - just different like a pratten is from a rudall derived flute. I sold my Seery to get a keyed M&E. I'm happy with it, but I'd be happy with either.
Eric
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Jayhawk
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Rhod, part of the diifficulty here is that each person's lips and hands are different, and so what works great for one fluter is awkward for another. Also, your relationship to the flute will change as you learn and improve, so you may end up wanting a different embouchure, tone hole size or spacing, etc., than whatever you start on.
The beauty of all this is that most of the flutes you're considering hold their resale value very well. When you want to try something different (and you will), you will likely get your money back, or most of it.
Take a look at the used flutes and others at Doc Jones' online storie: http://www.irishflutestore.com
The important thing is to get started. Find a decent flute and dive in. Let us know how the water is.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Okay - thanks for all the help and encouragement. I've decided to go for the M&E polymer model, and have ordered one direct from Michael today. Thanks for the link Wil, and you're right - it's time to jump right in and have a go.
Get ready for a flood of "... how the %$*! do you get a sound out of this thing?" type questions. Now, where's that whistle...?
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Rhod
Re: Help me to choose a flute
Hi, Rhod. Like you I'm learning Irish flute, and can't offer you expert advice, but here's what I did with a slippery ceramic flute: A spot of glue--in the case of your polmer MAKE SURE it's a glue that's SAFE on the material--on points where fingers/thumbs are slipping and pour a little sand on the glue. Alternatively, if you happen to stagger on a flat and narrow textile bracelet, like those made by Native people in Central America, it can be sewn tight aound the flute circumference in the trouble spot. Looks nice too.
# Posted on December 17th 2006 by Nick M