Hi,
If I understand well the lowest note on a whistle or a flute is the banjo's open D (perhaps I am mistaken). So if this is accurate how do whistle and flute players manage to play tunes that demand notes lower than D.
Thanks for your help,
h
I think there may be a lot of different approaches, you could play up an octave wither for the whole song or just a part of it, whatever sounds good, you could use that spot where the low note is to catch a breath, if appropriate, or as in my case take up fiddle I think it depends on the tune.
If the melody just drops briefly below your instrument's lowest note and doesn't go too far down, you can vary the melody slightly, for example, playing a third above the melody for just that one- or two-note problem spot. For example, if you're playing a D-whistle and the melody goes down to a C, see if an E works in that spot.
If the tune is hovering constantly at your lowest range, dropping below as often as it rises above, definitely do what Anny suggests and play it an octave higher. Or change instruments!
One technique is to extend the length of the whistle by cupping the end with your thighs. Obviously this can only be done whilst sitting down. Practice can give you a range of nearly a major third down.
Avoid eating beans or sprouts before, as the results could be unpredictable.
All the best PP
I took group lessons for whistle from Larry Nugent a few years ago. During one lesson the group was playing some tune which finished on low D (all were playing D whistles). As we held the final D to conclude the tune, Larry slurred into a low C. After recovering from nearly swallowing my whistle, I barely managed to blurt out a "How'd you do that!" He answered with one of those "I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you" comebacks. After some more coaxing, Larry demonstrated the technique. Blowing a low D, he slid the whistle further into his mouth until his lip covered a portion of the fipple window, the tone dropping down to something resembling C nat-C sharp. Then he proceeded to play an up-tempo reel in D, alternating with one part played in D and the next in C sharp using this technique, never once dropping the beat.
He told a story about playing at an outdoor fest with a guitar accompanist in which he did the same thing: playing one part of a tune in D and the next in C sharp as a joke on the guitarist. The guitarist, he said, gave him a panicked look trying to figure out what was happening, trying to find the right key. After finishing the set, the flustered guitarist shook his head saying that this never happened to him before. Maybe it was the heat and humidity affecting the tuning of the guitar, he guessed. Larry never let him in on the joke, though.
I related all this to an accomplished whistle player at the local session who ran with the idea. The next week he had a couple tunes down using Larry's technique. I've never done more than try the technique out to satisfy myself that it could be done - I have enough trouble getting through tunes in key in the first place.
Can't do it on my Irish flute but on my silver flute it's possible to roll the flute towards your mouth just enough to have the same effect as covering a portion of the fipple window on a whistle. (My beginner flute students used to love doing it as we were exploring tuning and how much control you actually have without adjusting the flute).
Similar tricks are possible on bowed instruments. On the cello it is possible to get the open C string (the bottom one) to play a semitone lower (the B) by applying very heavy bow pressure and "digging in". It seems to work best with a flexible string such as helicore or eudoxa covered gut. This effect is the opposite to the raising of the pitch which usually happens when an open string is played energetically.
I think one 20th century composer did require this low B to be played, but I can't remember the guy's name. Normally, of course, if the composer requires that low B the cellist is instructed to tune the string down a semitone. A good example is the Kodaly sonata opus 8 for solo cello where the G and C strings are tuned down to F# and B. The result is a wonderful organ-like sonority, especially for the key of B minor (3 open strings + the B on the A string).
I have no plans to try the heavy bow pressure trick on my fiddle's G string!
trevor
Trevor, every now and again I do that by mistake, and on my D string, usually on the last note of the set when I'm trying not to laugh or something and so am bearing down a little too heavily on the string. I always thought it was my imagination that the string dropped a temporary half tone! *grin* K., Larry Nugent's trick sounds like a great way to lose a tooth. Heh.
By the way, the technical name for retuning a stringed instrument by altering the pitch of one or more strings by half a tone or more is "scordatura". If it's done in something like the Kodaly cello sonata op 8, all the notes below the open D string are transposed up one half tone, so that C is written as C# but still sounds as C because the string is down half a tone. Physically, as far as your fingers are concerned you're playing on the two lower strings in one key and on the two upper strings in another key. Weird, but it's surprisingly easy to get used to.
Larry Nugent's trick on the whiste can be used quite interestingly with slow airs. Larry has an example of this on his second CD, Two for Two, where he plays the May Morning Dew. On the opening phrase of the second time thru, he drops the pitch and then resolves to the regurlar key a few bars later. very haunting effect...
Maybe slightly off-topic, but I took an Appalachian fiddle class this fall, and we learned a few tunes with the G string tuned up to an A. I tried out some of my Irish tunes which are in the key of D with the fiddle still tuned that way, and it sounded really cool. That open A string was kind of droning on its own the whole time.
Most common technique here is to play up the octave or to harmonise or as suggested above simply miss out the notes in question!
If this is a tune that's in the regular repertiore of your session you could ask the others to change the key to suit whistle/flute.
Alternatively just sit that one out! Not everyone has to play every tune and if there is a change say from low G to D then the effect of dropping out and coming in again when the key is suitable gives a real dynamic to the session and makes it more interesting for the company.
A while ago I was listening to Davy Spillane playing Jenny Picking Cockles and noticed him sliding up to high D - presumably by means of the thumb hole on the pipes. Since I haven't got a set of pipes, I tried to imitate it on the whistle, and found that I could achieve it by partly closing the end of the whistle on my thigh and sliding it off. Of course, with a high D or C whistle, this means bending down a long way, unless you play sitting on the floor with your knees up near your face.
curiosity
curiosity
Hi,
If I understand well the lowest note on a whistle or a flute is the banjo's open D (perhaps I am mistaken). So if this is accurate how do whistle and flute players manage to play tunes that demand notes lower than D.
Thanks for your help,
h
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by hhold
Re: curiosity
I think there may be a lot of different approaches, you could play up an octave wither for the whole song or just a part of it, whatever sounds good, you could use that spot where the low note is to catch a breath, if appropriate, or as in my case take up fiddle
I think it depends on the tune.
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by ANNY
Re: curiosity
If the melody just drops briefly below your instrument's lowest note and doesn't go too far down, you can vary the melody slightly, for example, playing a third above the melody for just that one- or two-note problem spot. For example, if you're playing a D-whistle and the melody goes down to a C, see if an E works in that spot.
If the tune is hovering constantly at your lowest range, dropping below as often as it rises above, definitely do what Anny suggests and play it an octave higher. Or change instruments!
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by cuchulain54
Re: curiosity
One technique is to extend the length of the whistle by cupping the end with your thighs. Obviously this can only be done whilst sitting down. Practice can give you a range of nearly a major third down.
Avoid eating beans or sprouts before, as the results could be unpredictable.
All the best PP
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by Pied Piper
Re: curiosity
I just tried that with my flute and it made it really hard to breath, all twisted up like that
Hmmm....
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by ANNY
Re: curiosity
I took group lessons for whistle from Larry Nugent a few years ago. During one lesson the group was playing some tune which finished on low D (all were playing D whistles). As we held the final D to conclude the tune, Larry slurred into a low C. After recovering from nearly swallowing my whistle, I barely managed to blurt out a "How'd you do that!" He answered with one of those "I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you" comebacks. After some more coaxing, Larry demonstrated the technique. Blowing a low D, he slid the whistle further into his mouth until his lip covered a portion of the fipple window, the tone dropping down to something resembling C nat-C sharp. Then he proceeded to play an up-tempo reel in D, alternating with one part played in D and the next in C sharp using this technique, never once dropping the beat.
He told a story about playing at an outdoor fest with a guitar accompanist in which he did the same thing: playing one part of a tune in D and the next in C sharp as a joke on the guitarist. The guitarist, he said, gave him a panicked look trying to figure out what was happening, trying to find the right key. After finishing the set, the flustered guitarist shook his head saying that this never happened to him before. Maybe it was the heat and humidity affecting the tuning of the guitar, he guessed. Larry never let him in on the joke, though.
I related all this to an accomplished whistle player at the local session who ran with the idea. The next week he had a couple tunes down using Larry's technique. I've never done more than try the technique out to satisfy myself that it could be done - I have enough trouble getting through tunes in key in the first place.
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by K. Leahy
Re: curiosity
Can't do it on my Irish flute but on my silver flute it's possible to roll the flute towards your mouth just enough to have the same effect as covering a portion of the fipple window on a whistle. (My beginner flute students used to love doing it as we were exploring tuning and how much control you actually have without adjusting the flute).
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by ANNY
Re: curiosity
Similar tricks are possible on bowed instruments. On the cello it is possible to get the open C string (the bottom one) to play a semitone lower (the B) by applying very heavy bow pressure and "digging in". It seems to work best with a flexible string such as helicore or eudoxa covered gut. This effect is the opposite to the raising of the pitch which usually happens when an open string is played energetically.
I think one 20th century composer did require this low B to be played, but I can't remember the guy's name. Normally, of course, if the composer requires that low B the cellist is instructed to tune the string down a semitone. A good example is the Kodaly sonata opus 8 for solo cello where the G and C strings are tuned down to F# and B. The result is a wonderful organ-like sonority, especially for the key of B minor (3 open strings + the B on the A string).
I have no plans to try the heavy bow pressure trick on my fiddle's G string!
trevor
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by lazyhound
Re: curiosity
Trevor, every now and again I do that by mistake, and on my D string, usually on the last note of the set when I'm trying not to laugh or something and so am bearing down a little too heavily on the string. I always thought it was my imagination that the string dropped a temporary half tone! *grin* K., Larry Nugent's trick sounds like a great way to lose a tooth. Heh.
Zina
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: curiosity
By the way, the technical name for retuning a stringed instrument by altering the pitch of one or more strings by half a tone or more is "scordatura". If it's done in something like the Kodaly cello sonata op 8, all the notes below the open D string are transposed up one half tone, so that C is written as C# but still sounds as C because the string is down half a tone. Physically, as far as your fingers are concerned you're playing on the two lower strings in one key and on the two upper strings in another key. Weird, but it's surprisingly easy to get used to.
trevor
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by lazyhound
Re: curiosity
Larry Nugent's trick on the whiste can be used quite interestingly with slow airs. Larry has an example of this on his second CD, Two for Two, where he plays the May Morning Dew. On the opening phrase of the second time thru, he drops the pitch and then resolves to the regurlar key a few bars later. very haunting effect...
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by Brendan
Re: curiosity
Maybe slightly off-topic, but I took an Appalachian fiddle class this fall, and we learned a few tunes with the G string tuned up to an A. I tried out some of my Irish tunes which are in the key of D with the fiddle still tuned that way, and it sounded really cool. That open A string was kind of droning on its own the whole time.
# Posted on December 31st 2002 by Andee
Re: curiosity
Many Irish flute players use 8-key flutes which have a low C# and C.
# Posted on January 1st 2003 by Tusong200
Re: curiosity
Most common technique here is to play up the octave or to harmonise or as suggested above simply miss out the notes in question!
If this is a tune that's in the regular repertiore of your session you could ask the others to change the key to suit whistle/flute.
Alternatively just sit that one out! Not everyone has to play every tune and if there is a change say from low G to D then the effect of dropping out and coming in again when the key is suitable gives a real dynamic to the session and makes it more interesting for the company.
# Posted on January 1st 2003 by breandan
Re: curiosity
A while ago I was listening to Davy Spillane playing Jenny Picking Cockles and noticed him sliding up to high D - presumably by means of the thumb hole on the pipes. Since I haven't got a set of pipes, I tried to imitate it on the whistle, and found that I could achieve it by partly closing the end of the whistle on my thigh and sliding it off. Of course, with a high D or C whistle, this means bending down a long way, unless you play sitting on the floor with your knees up near your face.
# Posted on January 3rd 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig