At a workshop at a festival I went to last weekend, people talked about triplets, and which direction they were bowed in. They said most people bow triplets starting in a down bow, and only a few bow in a up bow. I've tried bowing down, and I find it is easier and less stressful on the wrist. I've been thinking about changing my triplet bowing to start on the down bow rather than the up bow. However, I think most of my triplets start on the up bow, and I've been playing for a year that way. I'm finding it hard to change the bow direction. Does anyone have any ideas on how to change the bowing to start on down bow, or what would help me? I'm not worried or anything about the bow direction, but I've found down bowing the triplets is easier and takes less effort, and would like any suggestions on how to change to downbowing the triplets. The hardest part I've found is if I have a down bow on the previous note, then down bow the triplet. Anyhow, any comments or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.
How? practice, LOL. I went through this about 25 years ago. I had started doing trebles without thinking about them at all and realized after a few years that they all started on the upbow and sounded too scrunched up for my taste, so I decided to relearn them DUD.
It took months of concentrated work. Soon enough though I couldn't do them the old way. Practise them slowly and keep at it. Start by playing the two pickup notes in a single upbow. When you've got that down play the pickup notes down-up for a different attack. And don't forget you can slur out of a treble when you need to. Good luck.
I always start mine on an up-bow and it's a completely unconscious thing. Honestly it hasn't affected my playing in any negative way. If they sound good and don't mess up your bowing in general, then there's not much reason to switch, is there? Do whatever is comfortable for you.
If you can do them in both directions you wil not have to worry about 'preparing them'. Martin Hayes's approach (which is not necessarily the right one) is to play everything in everyway, so you can exploit a full range of tricks and express yourself better. Most traditional musicians do not worry at all, and learn the way they learn. At any rate, to my experience, three approaches are possible, and the are talented musicians for any of there: up bow, down bow, both
Davide
I would have thought it was extremely unusual to start a triplet with a down bow if the previous note was a down bow. So, on that one, my suggestion would be - don't. So, if you want to do a triplet on a down bow, make sure the previous note is an up bow. I think there could be exceptions to this, but rare, I would think ...
DUD? UDU? Either way, slur out of it, and practice slow.
Something else I think I've picked up in your original post, Catherine, about DUD being "less stressful on the wrist". I'm just wondering if you're using too much bow. IMO, for a triplet, the bow should hardly travel at all, which means there is very little movement of the wrist. (btw, as mentioned in various previous threads, when practising slowly, you still have to use the same amount of bow ie very little)
PS Sorry for calling you 'Catherine' - I just thought it might be fun to deliberately mis-type your name by typing it backwards
Perhaps you could try it with a down bow instead of an up?
Well now I am thinking which way I do triplets, which I wasn't before. I just played whatever felt natural at the time. However now you have raised the point, maybe that is the reason I find triplets easier in some tunes than others. For example, Crossing the Minch (great tune for triplet practicing btw) I find a lot easier and flows better than Jenny Dang the Weaver. Anyone else have this problem and could this be all down to DUD or UDU ??
Being able to do it either way really frees you from worrying about where you are. My UDUs don't sound as good, but i'm trying to not forget about working on them.
Being able to do them both ways is nice, but nearly everyone only plays them in one direction. DUD seems to be more prevalent, but the likes of Andy McGann (RIP), Kevin Burke, and Tommy Peoples play them UDU. Nearly all the Scots/Cape Breton fiddlers I know play DUD (at least the ones whose triplets I've tried to figure out).
I've come to prefer UDU, myself. It sounds lighter, less clunky... But to each his/her own.
IMHO, the single best way to get comfortable with triplets is to play this line over and over:
D2 (3DDD D2 (3DDD ...
("daah dikkada daah dikkada....")
By the time you finish 50 of them, you'll likely be pretty comfortable with your triplets, whichever direction you're choosing to play them...
I could swear Zina posted something once about asking Mr. Peoples to explain his triplets and after much repetition, they both agreed that he does most of his triplets DUD. (Then again, my senior moments have lately become a steady stream.)
Even if you're predominantly a DUD tripleter, UDU fits really well in certain places, and definitely can lend a lighter, "skippier" feel to a phrase.
I'm pretty sure he mostly starts them up-bow, though I'd bet money he can do them both ways:
"Your triplets are very distinctive. How did you develop them?
I probably consciously worked on them in the sense that they never seemed to work properly. So they developed from trying to bow them properly but not succeeding. There’s a slight difference from what might be known as a Sligo style of playing in that it’s a different bow direction. The actual triplet itself is started on a down bow; if you do it on an up-bow it gives a lighter feeling. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. It depends on form."
RE: Bow direction in triplets
RE: Bow direction in triplets
At a workshop at a festival I went to last weekend, people talked about triplets, and which direction they were bowed in. They said most people bow triplets starting in a down bow, and only a few bow in a up bow. I've tried bowing down, and I find it is easier and less stressful on the wrist. I've been thinking about changing my triplet bowing to start on the down bow rather than the up bow. However, I think most of my triplets start on the up bow, and I've been playing for a year that way. I'm finding it hard to change the bow direction. Does anyone have any ideas on how to change the bowing to start on down bow, or what would help me? I'm not worried or anything about the bow direction, but I've found down bowing the triplets is easier and takes less effort, and would like any suggestions on how to change to downbowing the triplets. The hardest part I've found is if I have a down bow on the previous note, then down bow the triplet. Anyhow, any comments or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by enirehtac
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
How? practice, LOL. I went through this about 25 years ago. I had started doing trebles without thinking about them at all and realized after a few years that they all started on the upbow and sounded too scrunched up for my taste, so I decided to relearn them DUD.
It took months of concentrated work. Soon enough though I couldn't do them the old way. Practise them slowly and keep at it. Start by playing the two pickup notes in a single upbow. When you've got that down play the pickup notes down-up for a different attack. And don't forget you can slur out of a treble when you need to. Good luck.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by Jeeves Tones
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
Plenty of good players start them with an upbow, I guess it's quite common in Clare.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by Murph
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
I always start mine on an up-bow and it's a completely unconscious thing. Honestly it hasn't affected my playing in any negative way. If they sound good and don't mess up your bowing in general, then there's not much reason to switch, is there? Do whatever is comfortable for you.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by mcdevincabe
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
It doesn't have to be an either-or thing--learn to do them DUD and UDU.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by Will CPT
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
If you can do them in both directions you wil not have to worry about 'preparing them'. Martin Hayes's approach (which is not necessarily the right one) is to play everything in everyway, so you can exploit a full range of tricks and express yourself better. Most traditional musicians do not worry at all, and learn the way they learn. At any rate, to my experience, three approaches are possible, and the are talented musicians for any of there: up bow, down bow, both
Davide
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by nutsmuggler
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
I would have thought it was extremely unusual to start a triplet with a down bow if the previous note was a down bow. So, on that one, my suggestion would be - don't. So, if you want to do a triplet on a down bow, make sure the previous note is an up bow. I think there could be exceptions to this, but rare, I would think ...
DUD? UDU? Either way, slur out of it, and practice slow.
Something else I think I've picked up in your original post, Catherine, about DUD being "less stressful on the wrist". I'm just wondering if you're using too much bow. IMO, for a triplet, the bow should hardly travel at all, which means there is very little movement of the wrist. (btw, as mentioned in various previous threads, when practising slowly, you still have to use the same amount of bow ie very little)
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by benhall.1
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
PS Sorry for calling you 'Catherine' - I just thought it might be fun to deliberately mis-type your name by typing it backwards
Perhaps you could try it with a down bow instead of an up?
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by benhall.1
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
One sure fire way of making yourself do it both ways is to do two back to back.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
Well now I am thinking which way I do triplets, which I wasn't before. I just played whatever felt natural at the time. However now you have raised the point, maybe that is the reason I find triplets easier in some tunes than others. For example, Crossing the Minch (great tune for triplet practicing btw) I find a lot easier and flows better than Jenny Dang the Weaver. Anyone else have this problem and could this be all down to DUD or UDU ??
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by deyrick
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
I think that it is ideal to be able to do a bowed triplet whenever you want to do it, no matter which way your bow is travelling.
To practice this, do a scale with a triplet at the end of each bow stroke / note.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by Jode
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
Being able to do it either way really frees you from worrying about where you are. My UDUs don't sound as good, but i'm trying to not forget about working on them.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by winterowl
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
Being able to do them both ways is nice, but nearly everyone only plays them in one direction. DUD seems to be more prevalent, but the likes of Andy McGann (RIP), Kevin Burke, and Tommy Peoples play them UDU. Nearly all the Scots/Cape Breton fiddlers I know play DUD (at least the ones whose triplets I've tried to figure out).
I've come to prefer UDU, myself. It sounds lighter, less clunky... But to each his/her own.
IMHO, the single best way to get comfortable with triplets is to play this line over and over:
D2 (3DDD D2 (3DDD ...
("daah dikkada daah dikkada....")
By the time you finish 50 of them, you'll likely be pretty comfortable with your triplets, whichever direction you're choosing to play them...
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by Georgi
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
50? It took me more like 50,000.
I could swear Zina posted something once about asking Mr. Peoples to explain his triplets and after much repetition, they both agreed that he does most of his triplets DUD. (Then again, my senior moments have lately become a steady stream.)
Even if you're predominantly a DUD tripleter, UDU fits really well in certain places, and definitely can lend a lighter, "skippier" feel to a phrase.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by Will CPT
Re: RE: Bow direction in triplets
I'm pretty sure he mostly starts them up-bow, though I'd bet money he can do them both ways:
"Your triplets are very distinctive. How did you develop them?
I probably consciously worked on them in the sense that they never seemed to work properly. So they developed from trying to bow them properly but not succeeding. There’s a slight difference from what might be known as a Sligo style of playing in that it’s a different bow direction. The actual triplet itself is started on a down bow; if you do it on an up-bow it gives a lighter feeling. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. It depends on form."
From: http://www.brendantaaffe.com/tommy_peoples.html
# Posted on December 20th 2006 by Georgi