Did anyone make it to the Ennis Trad Festival over the weekend?
I am just back from it and I have to ssay its probably the best weekend I have had in years, mind you it will take me a few weeks to get my energy back!
Thursday night was at first light which was mighty.
Friday night I went to hear Michael McGoldrick and group.
Saturday night was Fisherstreet.
The sessions were amzing too. Every bar in the town seemed to be packed with musicians!
A good weekend overall but the attitude of the bouncers in the lodge after the fisherstreet gig was a disgrace - we were allowed to stay in the bar for a few drinks but not allowed to play any tunes - a nice carry on for a trad festival!!!!!!
How about the festival organisers and as many patrons as possible let the publican know that there won't be any gigs at his venue next year unless the bouncers are bounced, or have an attitude adjustment!
I think you guys should read he local papers more. The only reason to bring this sort of stuff into Ennis is money. Ennis town council is talking to the organisers about a 'more modern' approach to the Fleadh Nua so it will bring in more punters. The talk is about the music being there and all that is needed is to utilise it more for the benefit of the traders.
It's enlightening to read up on the council and the chamber of commerce's thoughts on this and the only possible conclusion is that they see musicians and music as just another resource they can tap into and use up. They don't care about you coming over, they care about the money you bring in.
Sounds like a fairly typical town council reaction.
The National Folk Festival in Australia seemed to have it sorted after thirty or so years of moving from town to town and maybe getting that sort of treatment.
Fifteen or so years ago, they moved the festival into Canberra Exhibition Centre, which is a racecourse-type enclosed ground, with plenty of excellent buildings to hold ceilis and gigs in, plus putting up a number of largescale marquees.
For the stayers, there's a session bar where the beer stops when the patrons stop coming to the counter - if they don't, it doesn't - 24 hours for four days if you want, and no town council in sight!
The Exhibition Centre management is only too happy to be paid, and leave everyone to it!
Very successful - good gigs, "sessions-on-shift-roster", and importantly - the right location!
Well I enjoyed listening to the sessions. I had no problems with any bouncers. It sounds as though the bouncers are keeping up a great reputation in that trade!
I wish bouncers could be eliminated from all trad fests and replaced by bottles of wine!
Other than the treatment of these people I am sure alot of people have plenty of good feedback on the festival. I heard alot of my heroes playing and alot of amazing new musicians to me.
I cant wait for next year.
Imagine if this was done in the Radisson in Letterkenny back in August, or in the River Island in Castleisland a couple of weeks ago .... this has left a bad taste in my mouth after the weekend. Seamus Begley had just given me his box for a few tunes with a guitar player I hadn't met in years and after 30 seconds into a tune to be told "I TOLD YE ALREADY, STOP PLAYING THAT S**T" I'm going to the Éigse in Ballyvourney in a few weeks and I'm pretty confident musicians won't be subjected to the same treatement in the Abbey or the Mills at 2.30, 3.30, 5, or whatever time they want to play a few tunes!!!
Money and boozing - thats all the Ennis weekend is about - my sentiments exactly. Has been this way for a long time. The local musicians that play there all year round remind me of puppets I'm afraid. There just to entice foreigners trying (some very trying) to play IRISH traditional music. (sorry co-sessioners, but the truth hurts) into the pubs. Brogans session on Sunday ruined by learners sitting one side of pub and O'Connor/Keville at other end putting up with it basically. Each keeping to their own side. No 'craic' whatsoever. As for the McGoldrick gig fiasco, I have never heard such unadulterated rubbish in my life. I left after 20 minutes with a headache and twenty Euro lighter. NEVER again will I waste my money on an Ennis concert. This is just going to kill Irish Traditional Music I'm afraid. Back to the kitchen! On the plus side the shopping is great in Ennis. And Old Ground management very accommodating to musicians
Sadly... I wasn't there this year, but in defense of what was mentioned about the session in Brogans, I had a fabulous time there in 04. On the Sunday night that year I wasn't in Brogans, but I was at a great session with only a handful of brilliant musicians at Ciaran's. (sp?) While in that session I received a text from someone at Brogans and evidentially it's traditionally a crowded night in there with lots of visitors connecting up for one last blast before they leave the next day. I was fortunate enough to be in Ennis the week before and after the festival so I felt no urgency.
In regards to the rest of the festival, one of the greatest things is that if you don't like the session you're in (and there were a few where I felt that way) -- there are 15 more to choose from all within easy walking distance. Every day I was able to find 2 or more outstanding sessions to participate in or just listen to. It would be impossible to see everything at that event. For this Yank it was Heaven on Earth and I can't wait for an opportunity to go again. I think the festival is brilliant -- warts and all.
I agree, the sessions were great. I didn't get home until 5am for 3 nights in a row...it's got to be a good sign!! The one and only negative moment of the weekend was the bouncer (notice a pattern emerging?!) on the door of Cruises, who would let all my friends in to play tunes but not me. Apparently a student ID (I'm 19) doesn't count as ID, so needless to say none of us went in.
However we had great tunes in Ciarán's, The front bar, The Old Ground, and many other places.
Another possible explanation for the situation at Brogan's: Pat O'Connor and Claire Keville had just returned at 6:00 that morning from a three-week tour of the U.S., so were undoubtedly exhausted and jet-lagged. On Saturday they had a five hour drive, three hours at the airport, a five hour flight, and a five hour time change.
On their tour here, they always voluntarily joined in the sessions (sometimes a bit ragged) that developed after their gigs, and enjoyed playing with us.
I think they probably have their issues with the festival, but I doubt the reason for lack of 'craic' at Brogan's was the presence of the learners.
If the bouncers relaxed their attitude a little it would have been a fantastic festival ... no complaints about the music ... its being stopped playing in the most agressive degrading manner i've ever experienced that has really annoyed me .... really really annoyed me!!!
i think some of the different impressions might root from a disconnect in impressions innocent visitors are given as to what the "sessions" are for at this event---the trad fest site states plainly "all musicians welcome," and i'm sure the organizers and the publicans want that put out there in order to draw itm visitors and their revenue-----but i was told at custy's when i was there year before last that the fest is mainly for the professional local musicians, and the skedded "sessions" in the printed program are really essentially gigs, not true sessions where visitors are welcome. that would be excepting the ones such as sunday at brogans, where there's a chalkboard outside stating that all are welcome. indeed, at the big friday/saturday wingdings, particularly the miked "sessions," but even some of the non-miked ones on those nights, i did see the scheduled performers doing that put-down-your-instrument-talk-amongst-yourselves thing when travelers innocently tried to join in the playing or start tunes. on the other hand, the daytime sessions, and evening sessions on the other nights, seemed very open to visiting players. i could care less since i'm happy to watch my role models play anyhow (a key part of coming up in the music that we don't get over here), so i had the time of my life and hope to go back, to watch as well as to play..........
What we need is to organise a mammoth protest session at a Bouncers' Convention! only problem with having a bouncers' convention is that they throw each other out.
On a more serious note, there will always be potential conflict where ITM tries to meet the commercial world half-way. Only the straight gigs seem to work and not even all the time at that.
ceemonster wrote: "i did see the scheduled performers doing that put-down-your-instrument-talk-amongst-yourselves thing when travelers innocently tried to join in the playing or start tunes. on the other hand"
It might be "innocent," but it's not a good thing to do. The "put-down-your-instrument-talk-amongst-yourselves thing" is something I only saw them do when visitors came in and took it upon themselves to start tunes without being asked first. That's rude... plain and simple. I didn't start up tunes, (unless they asked me to,) and I never noodled on tunes I didn't know. If you can keep yourself from doing those two things at other people's sessions you'll usually be welcome -- Trad Fest or no Trad Fest. That's my experience anyway. Like you, I was there the year before last too and had no problem joining in with sessions... and I felt very welcome.
Brogans on Sunday. Yes, Gary is right in saying Pat O'Connor and Claire Keville were very jetlagged. Despite this Pat actually played on till well after "paycheck" time.
It is actually the case that these musicians have a preference for obscure East Galway tunes and for re-setting normal tunes into unusual keys. As on any Sunday (this session is regular) they were doing this and even a bit less than usual but I think this left a lot of the less experienced musicians stranded and some were undoubtedly more happy about it than others.
Perhaps this is what gives the impression of unfriendliness. I personally feel not every session should cater to the lowest common denominator and think it is good they didn't change their style. I generally know Pat and Claire to be *very* friendly and lovely people, though I suppose it is a bit tricky to have a friendly and intimate conversation in such a big crowd of people. They would have had to shout across the room to reach the people at the back.
However, as far as the county/town council goes I totally agree with Kilfarboy. They think they own "music" as well as anything "Irish" and clearly believe everything must be packaged in a non-threathening wholesome way and sold of to the tourists. See also the idiotic "visitor centre" that's ruining the Cliffs and the attending "busking license" which is were council busybodies decide what "good music" is and that it must be played in a "properly regulated fashion". http://www.clare.ie/news/Busking_Licences.html
That's a different thread maybe that I might yet start.
I don't really think it's relevant whether someone is a Clare musician or otherwise when it's a bout being welcoming.
The reason all of you guys want to come to a festival is because there's something organised. To have pub on board they need to be sure they'll have a full house musicians are asked to play to bring in punters, which is fair enough otherwise the pub may as well have a match on a big screen telly or a card-night or something to fill the place.
You can't expect (local) musicians suddenly race to the pubs to play with every man and their dog. I can assure you these can be very long nights if you are supposed to keep music going with a very mixed bag of people who just drop in and sit down playing. So some resort to playing in a very tight knit group with no welcome for outsiders. In fairness also, not all go about it this way.
So there are factors that will drive a festival in this direction. If you organise and commercialise things, things will be different.
Musicians paid to do a job will have a different attitude compared to when they are out and play for their own amusement.
I must say I greatly resent the milking of the music as a tourist attraction by people who have no interest or connection to it (publicans, chambers of commerce, local authorities, you name it) and I will generally avoid organised festival session. I was actually in Ennis during the festival, doing the shopping, but a few obvious festival goers aside there was no sign there was anything going on. Two weeks ago I also didn't go to Doonbeg although in fairness that was for a large part due to the weather.
So, while we can give out about it, having an organised festival will, by it's nature, bring you organise music and music in places where there is normally no welcome for it.
You just can't have it all, as soon as a large contingent of visitors marches in, this will not be the same as they are the rest of the year.
Strangest bit for me over the weekend (aside from playing Offenbach's Can-Can in Nagle's on Sunday night) was the busker outside the Clare museum, murdering his way through barely recognisable classical and pop melodies on a recorder.
Poor guy, he really picked the wrong weekend to try passing himself off as a musician...
A large number of musicians thyat were playing at the festival had their accommodation payed for.
The launches of albums had no cost to enter and those musicians had their Amplification and venue rent payed for.
The musicians that did the midnight gigs (that I personally enjoyed) had to get their wages, accommodation and sound payed for I am sure.
I think its silly to be discussing that this festival is all about making money as it is a well known fact that they have not been making a profit for this festival as all their money gets put straight back into the festival in an attempt to to let other people enjoy Irish music.
I personally love going to festivals and admire these people that organise them without getting any money for themselves.
I bet if everyone that was at the festival was a member of this site and gave there comments there would be an overwhelming thank you to these people and the musicians who helped the likes of me to enjoy the weekend.
Just my opinion.
I don't think anyone said it was about the Festival making money. They said it was about the Festival bringing patrons in to spend money at local businesses.
To be clear : when talking about using music as a resource to be tapped into I was referring to the recent articles in the Clare Champion in which member of the towncouncil and chamber of commerce were giving their rather bland view on how the local economy should benefit from the interest in traditional music abroad and how festivals (especially the Fleadh Nua) should be restrured to package the music in a way more profitable to local businesses. I was not referring to the organisers of the trad fest.
I was just talking to a friend about the festival and we both agreed that there were lovely sessions during the afternoons on Sunday and Monday.
The nights were too packed though and it's not nice to play into a flute loudly, If in general
I prefer a smaller scale type of festival and on the whole I had no expectations and I came out fairly pleased with what I heard.
Btw, did you see the double bass in Brogans? I could not believe it...I thought I was hallucinating.
Still it was worth going to.
I went to Ennis on Thursday. Called into Cruises pub and heard some lovely tunes with Marcas Moloney and friends, then I headed to The midnight gig at the sanctuary with 'At First Light' which was absolutely amazing!! Top playing by masters at the top of their game - sound was a bit dodgy at times though.
On Friday I caught a lovely tune at the back of Cruises with Siobhan Peoples, Murty Ryan & Cyrrel O'Donoghue joined by Michelle O'Brien and Padraig Rynne - this was very nice music(somewhat spoiled by over enthusiastic bouzouki(not Cyrrell), guitar and bodhran playing).
I then headed out to the Auburn Lodge and called in to McGoldrick and friends gig. The playing was great but the sound wasn't and it was quite noisy, but then again what do you expect with hundreds of drunk musicians catching up with old friends and having a laugh. I'm sure McGoldrick and co. knew the setup and were'nt in the least bit offended.
Saturday I called down to Baron McHughs and spent all day there. - Great tune with John McSherry and Donal O'Connor splendidly leading the way. Joined by Donegal fiddler who I hadn't heard before Ciaran O' Mooney - great! Mike McGoldrick joined in too. Beautiful way to spend an afternoon.
Then off to Fisher St. - Nice playing again - Again quite noisy. Then topped a drunken day off with a wee boogey at the Trad disco. - Magic!!
Sunday - Hit the road. Exhillerated and exhausted. And determined to come back next year.
Music overall was excellent. I heard lots of people talking about wonderful sessions all over the place. Weekend Highlight - McSherry and Francis McIlduff pipe duet on friday night - pure heaven.
Only complaint was the quality of the amplification at (all) the midnight gigs.
I'm sure if any of the thousands that had as good a time as me were bothered to post a message to this thread, the negative comments would be like good german bodhran players - few and far between.
People should lighten up, stop whinging about commerciality, bouncers etc.. etc and just enjoy themselves. Obviously some people are incapable of doing so without reminiscing about the good ould days in empty pubs.
i'm normally of your mind, pb, about it behooving visitors not to start tunes unless/until prompted by regs/leader---i was almost lynched by rude fellow travelers (not any i knew) in gleeson's of coore once for quietly and very nicely suggesting that to a gang who kept starting tunes but seemed clueless as to why the session leaders quit playing and blabbed to each other from then on.
the point i'm making about the ennis fest is that the fest people bill the sessions as part of the deal for visitors. so some of these folks were arguably "innocent" in a way i don't normally think of with the tune-starting visitor. i had a great time there and it was funny----i mosty left my instrument behind, but went to more than one sess where musicos would ask me where the hell it was and tell me to go get it.....so there you have it. i was very blue not to go this year or last year.......
well done Johnnie.
About time people stopped giving out in the miusic world and finnally told a story that involves some good memories.
It would be terrible if it came to your last day on this planet and people remembered Irish musicians for talking about the badness they experienced rather than the goodness.
Is it possible to have a new section for people who want to post positive comments and one for the people that want to post the neggative?
I know which I would prefer to read!
Anyway ...... back to ENJOYING Irish music!
Because I was only involved on the Saturday night I didn't feel qualified to contribute to the discussion this year. However, in light of the comments so far I'd like to add to the positive point of view. A few of us locals plus a fiddle player (Susanne) from Germany set up in the Auburn Lodge Hotel around 8.00pm. It wasn't long until we were joined by a bouzuki player (Michelle) from Belgium and two fiddlers from France. After a couple of hours a contingent from Dublin arrived and a Welsh fiddler (Bethwyn) from London. Everyone was in festival mood and the music was flying; even though we had no big names this, to me, was a model session as it demonstrated how universal trad really is - a good example was when one of the French girls was asked to start something, she launched into the Tarbolton set! We didn't experience any "Bouncer" problems but then we finished around 12.30am as most of the musicians wanted to see Fisherstreet.
Fair play to Johnnie flute.
I went a few years ago and just went with the flow. I had a marvellous time and didn't feel the need to join in with every tune I knew or session where I knew one or more of the participants.
Bouncers are part of the furniture in big pubs these days and by and large tend to be little ego monsters. Rather then get irritated, just leave quietly and quickly head for the invariable session next door.
The organisers have a thankless task trying to get funding, organising accommodation and so on for musicians and getting people to turn up in time for their session/gig. How they manage to provide a loose structure to the chaos that an Irish music festival creates is beyond me.
I salute all of you Gunga Dins in green!
I had a great time! It was so good to see old friends play tunes and listen to some amazing music, even the bouncers couldn't ruin it , especially as one of them at the Aubern lodge was trying to herd us all out and another was sending everyone back in the same small doorway-Mayhem!
I was in Brogan’s for the Sunday night session, which I try never to miss when in Ennis – I have nearly worn out my Pat O’Connor CD! I was at the “learner’s end” of the room largely because I don’t want to take up the space of the regular (and better) players at the top table. So far as I could hear, most people near me were in tune, in time, and not noodling on things they didn’t know. There were in fact two very good fiddlers at that end, neither of whom was asked to play. Eventually, late in the session after a long gap in the music, one of them did start a couple of reels but he was certainly put in his place as no-one joined in and a loud conversation continued across the middle of the room (not the top table players). The original complaint gave the impression that “learners” were starting their own tunes – not my recollection at all. I think it’s a bit harsh to lay blame for the lack of “craic” in those circumstances. Basically it’s a long room and very difficult to hold a conversation which includes everybody. Also a lot of people (myself included) have gone to hear the main players so they are on their “best session behaviour” which means a lot of gaps in the music and a “polite” feeling to the session which you don’t get if people are starting tunes spontaneously.
This was a very busy night when people are on a high after a great weekend of music - for most of the rest of the year the session will have fewer people, including the Fleadh Nua week. Surely it’s a good thing that people are being given a chance to hear this music which is very hard to find elsewhere? It’s a wonderful weekend on the whole and I think more learners should be encouraged to go as long as they’re prepared to listen.
"Withdraw that remark" insisted an old local, a cousin of Tony Linnane's. He and another old boy had added to a great sesh in the Copper Jug by singing a couple of songs. " Do you think singing should be part of the craic?", he asked the visitors.
"Well it gives the musicians a break" came the reply.
"A break.......withdraw that remark!"
Yes us tourists have a lot to learn in our 'innocence' and enthusiasm, especially about when not to play, agree Lynn. The PDYITAY thing happens quite a bit, sure why not? So does the persistent visitor.
I was at most of the above events, even the one with Susan, and mostly listening. The musicianship was excellent. I think the pipe duet was on Thursday J and maybe Maeve Toland got IDd too at a gig?
Other highlights - the Healy boys, the Cruinniu launch, and the Trad disco, which finished too early. Any feedback on the JMV concert?
Many thanks to the organisers.
the sunday brogan's i went to in 2004 was at the sunday at the end of the tradfest week, led by pat o'connor and a lovely fiddler named bridget, and seemed to be attended by a large number of visitors, most of them fiddlers for whatever reason. the leaders were playing a bunch of fiddle-friendly tunes in keys such as d and g, at great speed, and the visiting fiddlers were having the time of their lives. pat o'c was nodding at this one and that one to start a tune and was extremely cordial and courteous to everybody. i did not know most of these fiddle tunes. it was not the flat-key east galway/east clare repertoire someobody mentioned here, which is my favorite and which i would be happy to just listen to if i didn't know the stuff. i love the pat and claire team and their taste in tunes. the weird ones, the dark ones, the wooo-woooo stuff, it doesn't get any better than that! .
Ah, lads, the tradfest was deadly. great music and great songs in the singing sessions. I thought it was very well organised (Carmel) and was great craic. I was there from Friday to Monday and never wanted to go to bed in case i'd miss the craic or some tunes!
It was a brilliant weekend of tunes, catching up and general craic and in the middle of November for God's sake! Session ettiquette is always going to be a heavy topic but apart from that I don't know why anyone could complain. Fair play to John Rynne and the gang who always mastermind this unique fest. This will keep me going til the Willie Week.
Ceemnster,
I was at that Sunday Brogan session in 04 and I remember it as one of the best I was allowed to sit on...I do remember, however starting a tune or two (in the not-so-tune-friendly bouzouki, nontheless!) and remember being joined by more than a few musicians, once they figured out which set of tunes I was wrecking, that is....missed this year but don't expect to miss next year's..so there's my two-bits!
cheers
I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my first visit to the Ennis Trad Festival and I appreciate all the thought and effort that goes into pulling it off every year. Socially it is one of the best events around because you have room to move about in many of the venues and if you like to have a drink while you are listening to the music, it's always nearby. Great variety in the offerings, really and good value for the weekend. And the quality of the musicians is first rate, whether they are from the Banner County (Clare) or not. They have a very good handle on whom to invite in for the weekend and what CDs are good ones to launch. Good luck to them and hope to make another pilgrimage sometime in the future.
This sh*te has been going on since the word go. The idea of a trad festival to a country town obviously means $$$$$. there are ways and means about it if your smart enough that is. i went to nearly every gig in the auboun lodge this year and didnt pay a penny. around the back and with a bottle of vodka in me back pocket.
They did the same at the australian national in canberra this year nearly $300 entry for the weekend, and duiderri dubh or what ever his name is thinks that fair??? (needless to say i didn't pay into that either).... So look alive kids. They're out to get your money and nothing else, wheather you like it or not. i had a good time in ennis this year, the same as every year. nothing has changed. And yes i agree learners should be doing more listening then playing.
Flood, I guess only the chosen few special people like yourself should get in free to enjoy the concerts. Just try to have a festival as great as the Ennis one without anyone paying and see how far you get. I really doubt you'd pack every pub in town with brilliant players and have top-notch bands playing every night. I doubt anyone organizing or playing at that event is getting rich from it, and if the local economy gets a bit of a kick in a positive direction that could only be considered a plus. The least you could do if you plan to be there and enjoy the event is to do your part to help support the it by putting out a couple of bucks to get in to the concerts.
So your telling me mr button, that if you arrive to a concert, its 20 quid in, you know someone at the door that lets you in free. you're going to stop and say, " Ahh no sure i better pay and support the local economy".......come on now.......ive been in this game long enough now to know that a hand full of people is going to make a difference, especially to a town like ennis.
When I was a young lad kids in my area (and probably throughout the country) used to get into the local cinema by a scheme whereby one or two paid to go in legally and the rest followed for free by an ingenious strategy involving the connivance of the legal entrants, the toilets, and the rear exit door right next to the toilets. Has Flood been resurrecting and honing his childhood skills, I wonder?
But we're not talking about impecunious 10-year olds getting into the local flea-pit in the years after the War. We're talking about (presumably) responsible adults today going to see and hear live great musicians very few. if any, of whom could be said to be "rich" by the standards of the pop culture world, and who give their performances for the love of the music.
Phantom, in his last sentence, has got it absolutely right.
Ennis Trad Festival
Ennis Trad Festival
Did anyone make it to the Ennis Trad Festival over the weekend?
I am just back from it and I have to ssay its probably the best weekend I have had in years, mind you it will take me a few weeks to get my energy back!
Thursday night was at first light which was mighty.
Friday night I went to hear Michael McGoldrick and group.
Saturday night was Fisherstreet.
The sessions were amzing too. Every bar in the town seemed to be packed with musicians!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by eurbanjo
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
A good weekend overall but the attitude of the bouncers in the lodge after the fisherstreet gig was a disgrace - we were allowed to stay in the bar for a few drinks but not allowed to play any tunes - a nice carry on for a trad festival!!!!!!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Jonathan Roche
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
The bouncers there were the same during the Fleadh Nua in May too.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by SineadE
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
How about the festival organisers and as many patrons as possible let the publican know that there won't be any gigs at his venue next year unless the bouncers are bounced, or have an attitude adjustment!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Hi there Jonathan,
On Satuday night, we played in the Auburn Lodge until we were booted out by the bouncers at 2:30am, still that's late enough....
Nice sessions, a bit noisy and crowded on Friday and Saturday nights though.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by flauta dolce
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I think you guys should read he local papers more. The only reason to bring this sort of stuff into Ennis is money. Ennis town council is talking to the organisers about a 'more modern' approach to the Fleadh Nua so it will bring in more punters. The talk is about the music being there and all that is needed is to utilise it more for the benefit of the traders.
It's enlightening to read up on the council and the chamber of commerce's thoughts on this and the only possible conclusion is that they see musicians and music as just another resource they can tap into and use up. They don't care about you coming over, they care about the money you bring in.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by kilfarboy
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Sounds like a fairly typical town council reaction.
The National Folk Festival in Australia seemed to have it sorted after thirty or so years of moving from town to town and maybe getting that sort of treatment.
Fifteen or so years ago, they moved the festival into Canberra Exhibition Centre, which is a racecourse-type enclosed ground, with plenty of excellent buildings to hold ceilis and gigs in, plus putting up a number of largescale marquees.
For the stayers, there's a session bar where the beer stops when the patrons stop coming to the counter - if they don't, it doesn't - 24 hours for four days if you want, and no town council in sight!
The Exhibition Centre management is only too happy to be paid, and leave everyone to it!
Very successful - good gigs, "sessions-on-shift-roster", and importantly - the right location!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Well I enjoyed listening to the sessions. I had no problems with any bouncers. It sounds as though the bouncers are keeping up a great reputation in that trade!
I wish bouncers could be eliminated from all trad fests and replaced by bottles of wine!
Other than the treatment of these people I am sure alot of people have plenty of good feedback on the festival. I heard alot of my heroes playing and alot of amazing new musicians to me.
I cant wait for next year.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by eurbanjo
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Imagine if this was done in the Radisson in Letterkenny back in August, or in the River Island in Castleisland a couple of weeks ago .... this has left a bad taste in my mouth after the weekend. Seamus Begley had just given me his box for a few tunes with a guitar player I hadn't met in years and after 30 seconds into a tune to be told "I TOLD YE ALREADY, STOP PLAYING THAT S**T" I'm going to the Éigse in Ballyvourney in a few weeks and I'm pretty confident musicians won't be subjected to the same treatement in the Abbey or the Mills at 2.30, 3.30, 5, or whatever time they want to play a few tunes!!!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Jonathan Roche
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Money and boozing - thats all the Ennis weekend is about - my sentiments exactly. Has been this way for a long time. The local musicians that play there all year round remind me of puppets I'm afraid. There just to entice foreigners trying (some very trying) to play IRISH traditional music. (sorry co-sessioners, but the truth hurts) into the pubs. Brogans session on Sunday ruined by learners sitting one side of pub and O'Connor/Keville at other end putting up with it basically. Each keeping to their own side. No 'craic' whatsoever. As for the McGoldrick gig fiasco, I have never heard such unadulterated rubbish in my life. I left after 20 minutes with a headache and twenty Euro lighter. NEVER again will I waste my money on an Ennis concert. This is just going to kill Irish Traditional Music I'm afraid. Back to the kitchen! On the plus side the shopping is great in Ennis. And Old Ground management very accommodating to musicians
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by cluaintarbh
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Sadly... I wasn't there this year, but in defense of what was mentioned about the session in Brogans, I had a fabulous time there in 04. On the Sunday night that year I wasn't in Brogans, but I was at a great session with only a handful of brilliant musicians at Ciaran's. (sp?) While in that session I received a text from someone at Brogans and evidentially it's traditionally a crowded night in there with lots of visitors connecting up for one last blast before they leave the next day. I was fortunate enough to be in Ennis the week before and after the festival so I felt no urgency.
In regards to the rest of the festival, one of the greatest things is that if you don't like the session you're in (and there were a few where I felt that way) -- there are 15 more to choose from all within easy walking distance. Every day I was able to find 2 or more outstanding sessions to participate in or just listen to. It would be impossible to see everything at that event. For this Yank it was Heaven on Earth and I can't wait for an opportunity to go again. I think the festival is brilliant -- warts and all.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I agree, the sessions were great. I didn't get home until 5am for 3 nights in a row...it's got to be a good sign!! The one and only negative moment of the weekend was the bouncer (notice a pattern emerging?!) on the door of Cruises, who would let all my friends in to play tunes but not me. Apparently a student ID (I'm 19) doesn't count as ID, so needless to say none of us went in.
However we had great tunes in Ciarán's, The front bar, The Old Ground, and many other places.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Lizzy
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Another possible explanation for the situation at Brogan's: Pat O'Connor and Claire Keville had just returned at 6:00 that morning from a three-week tour of the U.S., so were undoubtedly exhausted and jet-lagged. On Saturday they had a five hour drive, three hours at the airport, a five hour flight, and a five hour time change.
On their tour here, they always voluntarily joined in the sessions (sometimes a bit ragged) that developed after their gigs, and enjoyed playing with us.
I think they probably have their issues with the festival, but I doubt the reason for lack of 'craic' at Brogan's was the presence of the learners.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
If the bouncers relaxed their attitude a little it would have been a fantastic festival ... no complaints about the music ... its being stopped playing in the most agressive degrading manner i've ever experienced that has really annoyed me .... really really annoyed me!!!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Jonathan Roche
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
i think some of the different impressions might root from a disconnect in impressions innocent visitors are given as to what the "sessions" are for at this event---the trad fest site states plainly "all musicians welcome," and i'm sure the organizers and the publicans want that put out there in order to draw itm visitors and their revenue-----but i was told at custy's when i was there year before last that the fest is mainly for the professional local musicians, and the skedded "sessions" in the printed program are really essentially gigs, not true sessions where visitors are welcome. that would be excepting the ones such as sunday at brogans, where there's a chalkboard outside stating that all are welcome. indeed, at the big friday/saturday wingdings, particularly the miked "sessions," but even some of the non-miked ones on those nights, i did see the scheduled performers doing that put-down-your-instrument-talk-amongst-yourselves thing when travelers innocently tried to join in the playing or start tunes. on the other hand, the daytime sessions, and evening sessions on the other nights, seemed very open to visiting players. i could care less since i'm happy to watch my role models play anyhow (a key part of coming up in the music that we don't get over here), so i had the time of my life and hope to go back, to watch as well as to play..........
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by ceemonster
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
They'll be having the bouncers on to the professional local musicians soon for taking up valuable tourism space!
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
What we need is to organise a mammoth protest session at a Bouncers' Convention! only problem with having a bouncers' convention is that they throw each other out.
On a more serious note, there will always be potential conflict where ITM tries to meet the commercial world half-way. Only the straight gigs seem to work and not even all the time at that.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by Donough
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
ceemonster wrote: "i did see the scheduled performers doing that put-down-your-instrument-talk-amongst-yourselves thing when travelers innocently tried to join in the playing or start tunes. on the other hand"
It might be "innocent," but it's not a good thing to do. The "put-down-your-instrument-talk-amongst-yourselves thing" is something I only saw them do when visitors came in and took it upon themselves to start tunes without being asked first. That's rude... plain and simple. I didn't start up tunes, (unless they asked me to,) and I never noodled on tunes I didn't know. If you can keep yourself from doing those two things at other people's sessions you'll usually be welcome -- Trad Fest or no Trad Fest. That's my experience anyway. Like you, I was there the year before last too and had no problem joining in with sessions... and I felt very welcome.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Two reactions to two different issues.
Brogans on Sunday. Yes, Gary is right in saying Pat O'Connor and Claire Keville were very jetlagged. Despite this Pat actually played on till well after "paycheck" time.
It is actually the case that these musicians have a preference for obscure East Galway tunes and for re-setting normal tunes into unusual keys. As on any Sunday (this session is regular) they were doing this and even a bit less than usual but I think this left a lot of the less experienced musicians stranded and some were undoubtedly more happy about it than others.
Perhaps this is what gives the impression of unfriendliness. I personally feel not every session should cater to the lowest common denominator and think it is good they didn't change their style. I generally know Pat and Claire to be *very* friendly and lovely people, though I suppose it is a bit tricky to have a friendly and intimate conversation in such a big crowd of people. They would have had to shout across the room to reach the people at the back.
However, as far as the county/town council goes I totally agree with Kilfarboy. They think they own "music" as well as anything "Irish" and clearly believe everything must be packaged in a non-threathening wholesome way and sold of to the tourists. See also the idiotic "visitor centre" that's ruining the Cliffs and the attending "busking license" which is were council busybodies decide what "good music" is and that it must be played in a "properly regulated fashion". http://www.clare.ie/news/Busking_Licences.html
That's a different thread maybe that I might yet start.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by SL*
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I don't really think it's relevant whether someone is a Clare musician or otherwise when it's a bout being welcoming.
The reason all of you guys want to come to a festival is because there's something organised. To have pub on board they need to be sure they'll have a full house musicians are asked to play to bring in punters, which is fair enough otherwise the pub may as well have a match on a big screen telly or a card-night or something to fill the place.
You can't expect (local) musicians suddenly race to the pubs to play with every man and their dog. I can assure you these can be very long nights if you are supposed to keep music going with a very mixed bag of people who just drop in and sit down playing. So some resort to playing in a very tight knit group with no welcome for outsiders. In fairness also, not all go about it this way.
So there are factors that will drive a festival in this direction. If you organise and commercialise things, things will be different.
Musicians paid to do a job will have a different attitude compared to when they are out and play for their own amusement.
I must say I greatly resent the milking of the music as a tourist attraction by people who have no interest or connection to it (publicans, chambers of commerce, local authorities, you name it) and I will generally avoid organised festival session. I was actually in Ennis during the festival, doing the shopping, but a few obvious festival goers aside there was no sign there was anything going on. Two weeks ago I also didn't go to Doonbeg although in fairness that was for a large part due to the weather.
So, while we can give out about it, having an organised festival will, by it's nature, bring you organise music and music in places where there is normally no welcome for it.
You just can't have it all, as soon as a large contingent of visitors marches in, this will not be the same as they are the rest of the year.
Not sure what I am saying but there you have it.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by kilfarboy
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Strangest bit for me over the weekend (aside from playing Offenbach's Can-Can in Nagle's on Sunday night) was the busker outside the Clare museum, murdering his way through barely recognisable classical and pop melodies on a recorder.
Poor guy, he really picked the wrong weekend to try passing himself off as a musician...
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by Q
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
A large number of musicians thyat were playing at the festival had their accommodation payed for.
The launches of albums had no cost to enter and those musicians had their Amplification and venue rent payed for.
The musicians that did the midnight gigs (that I personally enjoyed) had to get their wages, accommodation and sound payed for I am sure.
I think its silly to be discussing that this festival is all about making money as it is a well known fact that they have not been making a profit for this festival as all their money gets put straight back into the festival in an attempt to to let other people enjoy Irish music.
I personally love going to festivals and admire these people that organise them without getting any money for themselves.
I bet if everyone that was at the festival was a member of this site and gave there comments there would be an overwhelming thank you to these people and the musicians who helped the likes of me to enjoy the weekend.
Just my opinion.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by eurbanjo
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I don't think anyone said it was about the Festival making money. They said it was about the Festival bringing patrons in to spend money at local businesses.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
To be clear : when talking about using music as a resource to be tapped into I was referring to the recent articles in the Clare Champion in which member of the towncouncil and chamber of commerce were giving their rather bland view on how the local economy should benefit from the interest in traditional music abroad and how festivals (especially the Fleadh Nua) should be restrured to package the music in a way more profitable to local businesses. I was not referring to the organisers of the trad fest.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by kilfarboy
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
that should have said 'restructured'
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by kilfarboy
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I was just talking to a friend about the festival and we both agreed that there were lovely sessions during the afternoons on Sunday and Monday.
The nights were too packed though and it's not nice to play into a flute loudly, If in general
I prefer a smaller scale type of festival and on the whole I had no expectations and I came out fairly pleased with what I heard.
Btw, did you see the double bass in Brogans? I could not believe it...I thought I was hallucinating.
Still it was worth going to.
F.D.
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by flauta dolce
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Hi There,
I went to Ennis on Thursday. Called into Cruises pub and heard some lovely tunes with Marcas Moloney and friends, then I headed to The midnight gig at the sanctuary with 'At First Light' which was absolutely amazing!! Top playing by masters at the top of their game - sound was a bit dodgy at times though.
On Friday I caught a lovely tune at the back of Cruises with Siobhan Peoples, Murty Ryan & Cyrrel O'Donoghue joined by Michelle O'Brien and Padraig Rynne - this was very nice music(somewhat spoiled by over enthusiastic bouzouki(not Cyrrell), guitar and bodhran playing).
I then headed out to the Auburn Lodge and called in to McGoldrick and friends gig. The playing was great but the sound wasn't and it was quite noisy, but then again what do you expect with hundreds of drunk musicians catching up with old friends and having a laugh. I'm sure McGoldrick and co. knew the setup and were'nt in the least bit offended.
Saturday I called down to Baron McHughs and spent all day there. - Great tune with John McSherry and Donal O'Connor splendidly leading the way. Joined by Donegal fiddler who I hadn't heard before Ciaran O' Mooney - great! Mike McGoldrick joined in too. Beautiful way to spend an afternoon.
Then off to Fisher St. - Nice playing again - Again quite noisy. Then topped a drunken day off with a wee boogey at the Trad disco. - Magic!!
Sunday - Hit the road. Exhillerated and exhausted. And determined to come back next year.
Music overall was excellent. I heard lots of people talking about wonderful sessions all over the place. Weekend Highlight - McSherry and Francis McIlduff pipe duet on friday night - pure heaven.
Only complaint was the quality of the amplification at (all) the midnight gigs.
I'm sure if any of the thousands that had as good a time as me were bothered to post a message to this thread, the negative comments would be like good german bodhran players - few and far between.
People should lighten up, stop whinging about commerciality, bouncers etc.. etc and just enjoy themselves. Obviously some people are incapable of doing so without reminiscing about the good ould days in empty pubs.
Dry your eyes!!!!!
J
All the best
J
# Posted on November 15th 2006 by johnnieflute
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
i'm normally of your mind, pb, about it behooving visitors not to start tunes unless/until prompted by regs/leader---i was almost lynched by rude fellow travelers (not any i knew) in gleeson's of coore once for quietly and very nicely suggesting that to a gang who kept starting tunes but seemed clueless as to why the session leaders quit playing and blabbed to each other from then on.
the point i'm making about the ennis fest is that the fest people bill the sessions as part of the deal for visitors. so some of these folks were arguably "innocent" in a way i don't normally think of with the tune-starting visitor. i had a great time there and it was funny----i mosty left my instrument behind, but went to more than one sess where musicos would ask me where the hell it was and tell me to go get it.....so there you have it. i was very blue not to go this year or last year.......
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by ceemonster
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I wonder if we crossed paths in 2004.
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
well done Johnnie.
About time people stopped giving out in the miusic world and finnally told a story that involves some good memories.
It would be terrible if it came to your last day on this planet and people remembered Irish musicians for talking about the badness they experienced rather than the goodness.
Is it possible to have a new section for people who want to post positive comments and one for the people that want to post the neggative?
I know which I would prefer to read!
Anyway ...... back to ENJOYING Irish music!
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by eurbanjo
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Because I was only involved on the Saturday night I didn't feel qualified to contribute to the discussion this year. However, in light of the comments so far I'd like to add to the positive point of view. A few of us locals plus a fiddle player (Susanne) from Germany set up in the Auburn Lodge Hotel around 8.00pm. It wasn't long until we were joined by a bouzuki player (Michelle) from Belgium and two fiddlers from France. After a couple of hours a contingent from Dublin arrived and a Welsh fiddler (Bethwyn) from London. Everyone was in festival mood and the music was flying; even though we had no big names this, to me, was a model session as it demonstrated how universal trad really is - a good example was when one of the French girls was asked to start something, she launched into the Tarbolton set! We didn't experience any "Bouncer" problems but then we finished around 12.30am as most of the musicians wanted to see Fisherstreet.
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by Bannerman
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Fair play to Johnnie flute.
I went a few years ago and just went with the flow. I had a marvellous time and didn't feel the need to join in with every tune I knew or session where I knew one or more of the participants.
Bouncers are part of the furniture in big pubs these days and by and large tend to be little ego monsters. Rather then get irritated, just leave quietly and quickly head for the invariable session next door.
The organisers have a thankless task trying to get funding, organising accommodation and so on for musicians and getting people to turn up in time for their session/gig. How they manage to provide a loose structure to the chaos that an Irish music festival creates is beyond me.
I salute all of you Gunga Dins in green!
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I had a great time! It was so good to see old friends play tunes and listen to some amazing music, even the bouncers couldn't ruin it , especially as one of them at the Aubern lodge was trying to herd us all out and another was sending everyone back in the same small doorway-Mayhem!
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by noodlebean
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I was in Brogan’s for the Sunday night session, which I try never to miss when in Ennis – I have nearly worn out my Pat O’Connor CD! I was at the “learner’s end” of the room largely because I don’t want to take up the space of the regular (and better) players at the top table. So far as I could hear, most people near me were in tune, in time, and not noodling on things they didn’t know. There were in fact two very good fiddlers at that end, neither of whom was asked to play. Eventually, late in the session after a long gap in the music, one of them did start a couple of reels but he was certainly put in his place as no-one joined in and a loud conversation continued across the middle of the room (not the top table players). The original complaint gave the impression that “learners” were starting their own tunes – not my recollection at all. I think it’s a bit harsh to lay blame for the lack of “craic” in those circumstances. Basically it’s a long room and very difficult to hold a conversation which includes everybody. Also a lot of people (myself included) have gone to hear the main players so they are on their “best session behaviour” which means a lot of gaps in the music and a “polite” feeling to the session which you don’t get if people are starting tunes spontaneously.
This was a very busy night when people are on a high after a great weekend of music - for most of the rest of the year the session will have fewer people, including the Fleadh Nua week. Surely it’s a good thing that people are being given a chance to hear this music which is very hard to find elsewhere? It’s a wonderful weekend on the whole and I think more learners should be encouraged to go as long as they’re prepared to listen.
# Posted on November 16th 2006 by Lynn W
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
"Withdraw that remark" insisted an old local, a cousin of Tony Linnane's. He and another old boy had added to a great sesh in the Copper Jug by singing a couple of songs. " Do you think singing should be part of the craic?", he asked the visitors.
"Well it gives the musicians a break" came the reply.
"A break.......withdraw that remark!"
Yes us tourists have a lot to learn in our 'innocence' and enthusiasm, especially about when not to play, agree Lynn. The PDYITAY thing happens quite a bit, sure why not? So does the persistent visitor.
I was at most of the above events, even the one with Susan, and mostly listening. The musicianship was excellent. I think the pipe duet was on Thursday J and maybe Maeve Toland got IDd too at a gig?
Other highlights - the Healy boys, the Cruinniu launch, and the Trad disco, which finished too early. Any feedback on the JMV concert?
Many thanks to the organisers.
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by docdick
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
the sunday brogan's i went to in 2004 was at the sunday at the end of the tradfest week, led by pat o'connor and a lovely fiddler named bridget, and seemed to be attended by a large number of visitors, most of them fiddlers for whatever reason. the leaders were playing a bunch of fiddle-friendly tunes in keys such as d and g, at great speed, and the visiting fiddlers were having the time of their lives. pat o'c was nodding at this one and that one to start a tune and was extremely cordial and courteous to everybody. i did not know most of these fiddle tunes. it was not the flat-key east galway/east clare repertoire someobody mentioned here, which is my favorite and which i would be happy to just listen to if i didn't know the stuff. i love the pat and claire team and their taste in tunes. the weird ones, the dark ones, the wooo-woooo stuff, it doesn't get any better than that! .
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by ceemonster
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Ah, lads, the tradfest was deadly. great music and great songs in the singing sessions. I thought it was very well organised (Carmel) and was great craic. I was there from Friday to Monday and never wanted to go to bed in case i'd miss the craic or some tunes!
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Shteve Luachra
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
It was a brilliant weekend of tunes, catching up and general craic and in the middle of November for God's sake! Session ettiquette is always going to be a heavy topic but apart from that I don't know why anyone could complain. Fair play to John Rynne and the gang who always mastermind this unique fest. This will keep me going til the Willie Week.
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Denis Liddy
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Anyone make the Cruinniú launch? Got their cd-excellent
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by fidleir
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Ceemnster,
I was at that Sunday Brogan session in 04 and I remember it as one of the best I was allowed to sit on...I do remember, however starting a tune or two (in the not-so-tune-friendly bouzouki, nontheless!) and remember being joined by more than a few musicians, once they figured out which set of tunes I was wrecking, that is....missed this year but don't expect to miss next year's..so there's my two-bits!
cheers
# Posted on November 20th 2006 by zoukmike
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my first visit to the Ennis Trad Festival and I appreciate all the thought and effort that goes into pulling it off every year. Socially it is one of the best events around because you have room to move about in many of the venues and if you like to have a drink while you are listening to the music, it's always nearby. Great variety in the offerings, really and good value for the weekend. And the quality of the musicians is first rate, whether they are from the Banner County (Clare) or not. They have a very good handle on whom to invite in for the weekend and what CDs are good ones to launch. Good luck to them and hope to make another pilgrimage sometime in the future.
# Posted on November 23rd 2006 by clareman
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
This sh*te has been going on since the word go. The idea of a trad festival to a country town obviously means $$$$$. there are ways and means about it if your smart enough that is. i went to nearly every gig in the auboun lodge this year and didnt pay a penny. around the back and with a bottle of vodka in me back pocket.
They did the same at the australian national in canberra this year nearly $300 entry for the weekend, and duiderri dubh or what ever his name is thinks that fair??? (needless to say i didn't pay into that either).... So look alive kids. They're out to get your money and nothing else, wheather you like it or not. i had a good time in ennis this year, the same as every year. nothing has changed. And yes i agree learners should be doing more listening then playing.
# Posted on November 24th 2006 by tina concert
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
Flood, I guess only the chosen few special people like yourself should get in free to enjoy the concerts. Just try to have a festival as great as the Ennis one without anyone paying and see how far you get. I really doubt you'd pack every pub in town with brilliant players and have top-notch bands playing every night. I doubt anyone organizing or playing at that event is getting rich from it, and if the local economy gets a bit of a kick in a positive direction that could only be considered a plus. The least you could do if you plan to be there and enjoy the event is to do your part to help support the it by putting out a couple of bucks to get in to the concerts.
# Posted on November 24th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
So your telling me mr button, that if you arrive to a concert, its 20 quid in, you know someone at the door that lets you in free. you're going to stop and say, " Ahh no sure i better pay and support the local economy".......come on now.......ive been in this game long enough now to know that a hand full of people is going to make a difference, especially to a town like ennis.
# Posted on November 25th 2006 by tina concert
Re: Ennis Trad Festival
When I was a young lad kids in my area (and probably throughout the country) used to get into the local cinema by a scheme whereby one or two paid to go in legally and the rest followed for free by an ingenious strategy involving the connivance of the legal entrants, the toilets, and the rear exit door right next to the toilets. Has Flood been resurrecting and honing his childhood skills, I wonder?
But we're not talking about impecunious 10-year olds getting into the local flea-pit in the years after the War. We're talking about (presumably) responsible adults today going to see and hear live great musicians very few. if any, of whom could be said to be "rich" by the standards of the pop culture world, and who give their performances for the love of the music.
Phantom, in his last sentence, has got it absolutely right.
# Posted on November 25th 2006 by lazyhound