Please can anyone suggest where I can get some advice on how to play second box when playing with a group? Is there any help anywhere on the web? Or any good book on accompanying on the box?
Either both just play the melody like in session style, or learn to play harmony lines. Or mix in both, depending on the situation. Or take turns, with each playing the tunes they are best on. What kind of lineup does the group have, and how did you end up with two box players?
Second box in Scottish bands is usually playing chords which fit in with what the piano and string bass are playing (and also tying in with the drummer).
In ITM, second box will more usually double the other instruments or occasionally play a harmonising melodic line.
As usual, more can be gleaned from listening to various bands (and putting it into practise) than reading up on it.
It's hard to imagine having two box players together anywhere at the same time, much less playing together. Seems to be very few of us around.
I am just learning box (seems to be similar timing to learing the pipes- 7 years to learn, 7 years to practice, and 7 years toplay....)
Having played piano accoridion for a long time with a bunch of Irishesque sorts (in Chicago an old saying is that there are ther Irish and those that want to be. The Wannabes can be a real pain.) when there are two reeds (or a fiddle or whistler) you have to sort out who plays lead when, learn when to gracefully sit out and learn to improvise counter melodies to play off the other reed player, fiddle, whistler or hot dog lead guitarist). Sometimes it is like negotiating peace in the mddle east though.
I have found that accompaniment tough on box (mine's B/C) because of not having full triads. So you have to be a bit more creative. But when it works, it really is pretty.
When we were in Donegal at the Scotsmans last summer, John had a 2nd box playing in . He was fantastic and the other guy tried to keep up playing unison...an exercise in futility. But when the other guy or the fiddle led, John did a really nice mix of run and fill, and was humble enough to know when to sit out (or maybe had a good sense to know when his pint needed refilling)
Sharon Shannon's albums are great examples of accompaniment on the box though. Not only is she a superb ( I think that really understates her abilities) solo player, she is expert at accomanying in an unbelievable variety of styles. Get some of her CD's. I have found them to be a great learning tool.
Plenty of sessions here have several box players playing melody at once - no problems. Give a spin to Beoga's CD, A Lovely Madness. It's great the way the two boxes wind in and out of tunes.
Where have most of you been playing!!?? As it is quite common to have two instruments of the same in any given session. As long as there aren't a dozen of each instrument all gathered in the one spot ( at the same time) who gives a toss. Just play!!! Lap it up before you're a dad, and then hope that not everyone brings the kids
By the way it was a lovely session in Melbourne with Paddy Fitz on Sunday night at the Normandy. Only one pair of parents brought a sleeping baby and it turned out fine til he(the baby) told us we had to leave
Two of the same instrument in a session, that we see just about everywhere. But around here, except for ceilidhe bands, you rarely see more than one of any instrument in a band (well, maybe two fiddles sometimes, or two guitars).
Thanks for all the useful (and not so useful!) replies. Our group has 2 boxes, 2 fiddles (depends whether I'm playing fiddleor box) 2 guitars 2 whistles and sometimes a keyboard. The tune can sometimes get top heavy and harmony is needed sometimes to fill between tine and chords. Trouble is I'm not too good at improvising on the spot.
We don't always have 2 boxes - in winter months the other player sometimes has trouble negotiating the Bealach na Ba - the highest and twistiest road in the Highlands!!
Annconn - from the way you say "2nd box" I'm guessing you mean Scottish style. If so, than geoff and theboymcdermott have each answered correctly for 10 points!!
I don't know of any book or other source of reference on this. It's a big subject, but feel free to contact me directly if you want some help, I will see what I can do. (I teach accordion in Scotland.)
Anyone know of a box player in or near Glasgow looking to play in a ceilidh band??
Seeing as there seems to be a few Scottish boxy types on this thread I thought I'd ask here...
I play in a ceilidh band based in Glasgow & we are looking for a good box player to complete our line up. If anyone knows anyone (annconn do you have any southern, squeezy friends? kris, any promising pupils?) then please get in touch.
The band has bookings up until & including Hogmanay but we are playing these with a concertina player who is just filling in for us at the minute. The band is a four piece all in our twenties (just!).
Seem to have lost my reply to ciansdad and annconn
Before I saw annconn's reply, I assumed she was in the United States.
We have a shortage of anyone who plays the box so having two is hardly a problem.
I am from Chicago. Even though the South Side has a long tradition of Irish, sessions are few and far between. And irnocally many are on the North side where there seems to be a more active bar and singles scene. South Side is very family oriented.
Here, most often there is an Irish (or Irish style) tenor voice (or one that wishes it was) on a guitar, alot of flutes, maybe a few fiddles of varying degree of ability, an token whistle (usually the flute player or the occasional PA/piano player), and if you are lucky (or maybe not depending on the skill level) a bouhran player.
Learning the box has been a 'do-it-yourself exercise. IT took a yearb but I have finally found someone who teaches box. Apparently basic, but at least it will be nice to have someone shoe 'speaks the language"
ciansdad. Melbourne must be blessed. I just fininshed an article by Greame Smith focusing on Paddy and Joe Fitz. I wish I could see them but it is a 12 hour flight. My wifes cousin is in Canberra, maybe I could use that as an excuse.
playing second box
playing second box
Please can anyone suggest where I can get some advice on how to play second box when playing with a group? Is there any help anywhere on the web? Or any good book on accompanying on the box?
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by annroscon
Re: playing second box
You'd need to balance an accordion on each knee ... I bet some helpful person will find a photo of this activity out there on the web to assist you.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by dogbox
Re: playing second box
Either both just play the melody like in session style, or learn to play harmony lines. Or mix in both, depending on the situation. Or take turns, with each playing the tunes they are best on. What kind of lineup does the group have, and how did you end up with two box players?
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: playing second box
Two box players is standard in certain Scottish Country Dancing circles, I imagine it might be the same for some ceili bands??
When I've seent his done it seems as if the second player just vamps chords and plays basses while the lead player concentrates on melody.
Can't say I care for the sound myself.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by theboymcdermott
Re: playing second box
Second box in Scottish bands is usually playing chords which fit in with what the piano and string bass are playing (and also tying in with the drummer).
In ITM, second box will more usually double the other instruments or occasionally play a harmonising melodic line.
As usual, more can be gleaned from listening to various bands (and putting it into practise) than reading up on it.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: playing second box
why not be first box in your own band?
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by millionyears_bc
Re: playing second box
It's hard to imagine having two box players together anywhere at the same time, much less playing together. Seems to be very few of us around.
I am just learning box (seems to be similar timing to learing the pipes- 7 years to learn, 7 years to practice, and 7 years toplay....)
Having played piano accoridion for a long time with a bunch of Irishesque sorts (in Chicago an old saying is that there are ther Irish and those that want to be. The Wannabes can be a real pain.) when there are two reeds (or a fiddle or whistler) you have to sort out who plays lead when, learn when to gracefully sit out and learn to improvise counter melodies to play off the other reed player, fiddle, whistler or hot dog lead guitarist). Sometimes it is like negotiating peace in the mddle east though.
I have found that accompaniment tough on box (mine's B/C) because of not having full triads. So you have to be a bit more creative. But when it works, it really is pretty.
When we were in Donegal at the Scotsmans last summer, John had a 2nd box playing in . He was fantastic and the other guy tried to keep up playing unison...an exercise in futility. But when the other guy or the fiddle led, John did a really nice mix of run and fill, and was humble enough to know when to sit out (or maybe had a good sense to know when his pint needed refilling)
Sharon Shannon's albums are great examples of accompaniment on the box though. Not only is she a superb ( I think that really understates her abilities) solo player, she is expert at accomanying in an unbelievable variety of styles. Get some of her CD's. I have found them to be a great learning tool.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by zippydw
Re: playing second box
I hope some day to be a better box player than speller
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by zippydw
Re: playing second box
Plenty of sessions here have several box players playing melody at once - no problems. Give a spin to Beoga's CD, A Lovely Madness. It's great the way the two boxes wind in and out of tunes.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: playing second box
Where have most of you been playing!!?? As it is quite common to have two instruments of the same in any given session. As long as there aren't a dozen of each instrument all gathered in the one spot ( at the same time) who gives a toss. Just play!!! Lap it up before you're a dad, and then hope that not everyone brings the kids
By the way it was a lovely session in Melbourne with Paddy Fitz on Sunday night at the Normandy. Only one pair of parents brought a sleeping baby and it turned out fine til he(the baby) told us we had to leave
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by ciansdad
Re: playing second box
Two of the same instrument in a session, that we see just about everywhere. But around here, except for ceilidhe bands, you rarely see more than one of any instrument in a band (well, maybe two fiddles sometimes, or two guitars).
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: playing second box
Thanks for all the useful (and not so useful!) replies. Our group has 2 boxes, 2 fiddles (depends whether I'm playing fiddleor box) 2 guitars 2 whistles and sometimes a keyboard. The tune can sometimes get top heavy and harmony is needed sometimes to fill between tine and chords. Trouble is I'm not too good at improvising on the spot.
We don't always have 2 boxes - in winter months the other player sometimes has trouble negotiating the Bealach na Ba - the highest and twistiest road in the Highlands!!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by annroscon
Re: playing second box
Annconn - from the way you say "2nd box" I'm guessing you mean Scottish style. If so, than geoff and theboymcdermott have each answered correctly for 10 points!!
I don't know of any book or other source of reference on this. It's a big subject, but feel free to contact me directly if you want some help, I will see what I can do. (I teach accordion in Scotland.)
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by kris
Anyone know of a box player in or near Glasgow looking to play in a ceilidh band??
Seeing as there seems to be a few Scottish boxy types on this thread I thought I'd ask here...
I play in a ceilidh band based in Glasgow & we are looking for a good box player to complete our line up. If anyone knows anyone (annconn do you have any southern, squeezy friends? kris, any promising pupils?) then please get in touch.
The band has bookings up until & including Hogmanay but we are playing these with a concertina player who is just filling in for us at the minute. The band is a four piece all in our twenties (just!).
Thanks!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by theboymcdermott
Re: playing second box
having a bit of a problem with my posting
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by zippydw
Re: playing second box
Seem to have lost my reply to ciansdad and annconn
Before I saw annconn's reply, I assumed she was in the United States.
We have a shortage of anyone who plays the box so having two is hardly a problem.
I am from Chicago. Even though the South Side has a long tradition of Irish, sessions are few and far between. And irnocally many are on the North side where there seems to be a more active bar and singles scene. South Side is very family oriented.
Here, most often there is an Irish (or Irish style) tenor voice (or one that wishes it was) on a guitar, alot of flutes, maybe a few fiddles of varying degree of ability, an token whistle (usually the flute player or the occasional PA/piano player), and if you are lucky (or maybe not depending on the skill level) a bouhran player.
Learning the box has been a 'do-it-yourself exercise. IT took a yearb but I have finally found someone who teaches box. Apparently basic, but at least it will be nice to have someone shoe 'speaks the language"
ciansdad. Melbourne must be blessed. I just fininshed an article by Greame Smith focusing on Paddy and Joe Fitz. I wish I could see them but it is a 12 hour flight. My wifes cousin is in Canberra, maybe I could use that as an excuse.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by zippydw