For every sessioneer I meet , I also meet a slew of people who play Irish music on some instrument or other but never attend a session and don't play music with others because they think they aren't good enough.
Thinking that they lack sufficient intelligence, heart or courage to join in, they are doomed to a life of closet ITM.
I had the brilliant idea of an ITM workout, just like an aerobics workout, the tune would start of at a very slow sort of country and western pace, warm up to the correct or common pace and then crank up to a ridiculous pace until something falls off. The idea being if you can play a tune too slow and too fast in the comfort of your own lounge room, you should be able to play it at the right speed in open company. I thought just one or two melody instruments would give an uncluttered sound to accompany.
If anyone would like contribute a tune, I would be happy to host a collection of them on my website for free download.
You never know, it might even be a fun thing to do!
S. "No brain you see."
D. "No brain? Well how can you talk if you've got no brain?"
S. "I'm not sure about that, but a lot of people without brains do an awful lot of talking,?
D. "Well, I guess they do."
"I would while away the hours,
a diddling with the flowers,
an' fiddlin' with the rain.
(de diddle ee diddle ee dee)
And with the thoughts I've been havin'
I could be a Frankie Gavin,
If I only had a brain."
Except we all know that the ability to play fast has nothing whatsoever to do with the ability to play well.
BTW it is quite an established practice in some session circles to start off tunes really slow, then rack them up. Maybe not to falling of pace, but to normal session speed anyway.
Last night, the mix of folks at the session was approaching things at a much more leisurely pace, and I actually found it an interesting challenge to accompany at a different tempo. If you look carefully, and approach things constructively, there are challenges at every speed!
Looking at all the slagging that goes on at this website, is it any wonder that some budding musicians fear to venture out into the world?
His idea is good, i remember starting out (considering I'm only 18 i suppose i'm still "starting out") and my biggest fear in some of the sessions i've been to was keeping up with the speed.
We all know playing fast isn't necessarily playing well, but as much as people rant on about it, people in sessions do often play at fast speeds. I reckon a website with people speeding up tunes is a great idea (i duno if i'd pay for it but i would definately use it) because the closet ITM musician would get used to playing tunes at all speeds and would be more suited to a range of sessions (from slow to fast). Perhaps tag on some pointers about worming your way into playing in sessions aswell and recordings to help people add ornamentation and you have something worth money to beginners.
When I get my instruments and stuff set up i'll be sure to record a few tracks for you mate! (I've just moved into halls at uni and sadly not everyhtign has moved with me yet)
Yeah...I'm really new to playing Irish, but I've been a fan for quite a while. I'm still scared to death to go to sessions not necessarily based on tempo problems, but just being a hindrance in general. I have a really good friend or two with whom I'll get together and jam, but that's about it.
How do you know when you really are ready to go to a session and add to it...not just be in the way? Do you just sort of have to jump in, or does there come a point when you're like, "Yup, I'm good enough now"?
Hey IrishElf - pick a set of your favourite (not too hard) tunes off a CD, slow them down with software to a speed you can keep up with. Learn the tune, listen for ornamentation and rhythm, gradually speed them up with the software until you can play along with the CD at normal speed. This will take a while, but it's all part of the pastime. Take this set along to your session, grab a beer...when you're ready, play this set, then leisurely go back to your beer - like you might come back and play a bit more later. Cool!
And for those of you who do not have musical aerobic tapes, or slowing down software, I myself find that using sheet music in my practice sessions at home is an excellent aid to building my ability to play tunes!
I would say that these shy people are suffering from performance anxiety, but that would reopen the whole "Is a session a performance?" kettle of fish again!
Sheet music is an excellent way to go, I agree. Having learned that way myself for the most part in conjunction to listening to the tune at the session (if I could ever get players to tell me, or remember, what the last tune was called!), I felt that sheet music was training my eye to read music, more than my ear to hear it.
I'd say it's quicker to be able to learn a tune by ear rather than by sheet music - if you can do it (if you know what I mean). Learning to play by ear is also something you have to 'learn'.
I think the best conclusion I could come to in ITM, was to pick a couple of sets that you like, concentrate on learning those to the best of your ability, go along to your session and just play those. People will back you. No one will be too worried about how fast or slow you play them. Repeat this process, and over a few years you'll find yourself being able to play along with most of what happens at a session.
This is unless you've started learning ITM from the age of around 5, surrounded by family, friends and neighbourhoods all playing the music. That helps - for the rest of us, there's sheet music and slow-down software, god help us!
Yes I got a friend called freddy who say's he wont come to sessions because he feels intimidated by all those butch hairy men and because he is a "friend of dorothy" he just keeps harping on saying I am what I am !!!!!!!! Thats why he invites musicians round to his house for one on one sessions.
I think the problem with speed has little to do with tempo. The problem with speed has more to do with the fact that a lot of folks seem to be in too big of a hurry to play fast. You can only play as fast as you can play.
I say don't worry about the fecking tempo -- play at your own pace. If this means you can't join in at your local session... so what? There's plenty of time for that. Right now you might want to just concentrate on what you CAN do. Play the music at a tempo that's comfortable for you, and if you want to play with other folks -- find folks that are at a similar level.
My opinion is that sheet music is not going to be any kind of easy fix to increase your tempo, and it might possibly create a situation where you’re reinforcing the wrong things about the music. I think it's still best to learn the music by ear before you begin to interpret ITM for yourself from sheet music.
I find slow down hardware is useful if you can’t find anyone to play the tune you’re interested in learning slowly for you. If you’re referencing a recording you might be getting a hybrid or hotrod version of the tune if it’s from some virtuoso’s recording. If you can actually find a person to play the tune slowly for you, they will likely give you as common a setting as possible to learn from. If you can’t find anyone to do that, look for other recorded versions to compare to what you have. Sometimes you can find the tunes recorded by ceili bands that are more likely to have the common setting. In this case finding sheet music of the tune might also help you to determine what a common setting might be, but don’t rely on the sheet music for much beyond that if you’re just learning.
But the important thing for me when learning is to play the music by ear at my own speed until I can accelerate the tempo comfortably at my own pace. Instead of using sheet music, first imprint the music in your memory and it will be far easier than any slow-down software or sheet music. Just my opinion based on my own experience.
Phantom Button is right. The only thing is that 'playing by ear' sounds like an impossibility of a thing to do to most novices, the "I'll never be able to do that" syndrome, "I better go for sheet music." That can be the reaction, and it can discourage people. Playing by ear is a skill in itself, and an advanced one, it is something you have to build up over time. What you are trying to do in ITM is two things really - learn the tunes *and* learn your instrument - these can get in the way of each other, and makes the job really hard.
The connection between what the notes you hear in a tune, and where these are located on your instrument, without having to think about these positions, and it becomes all automatic and very fast, is a learned skill. When you have that down to some degree, you begin to be able to "play by ear".
So, Phantom Button, you have been playing for quite a while, but you started out as an adult learner, I think?
My experience at sessions has been that if you go along without a few common tunes that you've gone to the trouble of learning, and play them at your own pace, people will back you at that pace in the tune. When they want to ramp it up though, take a ticket and have a listen. It's a good opportunity then to let osmosis take over and let your ear get trained up.
Most people, me too, will initially go for sheet music to learn a tune, because sight is something that is more apparent one can do, than play by ear. Learning the tune from sheet music then speeding up will be the aim, but what it doesn't do it teach you to quickly translate the seen note to a position on your instrument quickly. That's why people have a hard time increasing speed having learned from sheet music - because you are going through more mental steps playing that way, than you do playing by ear.
Yes, I initially learned as an adult in a remote location where I was the only person playing the music at all. The first tune I learned was 'Ships Are Sailing' that I got from sheet music. When I went somewhere else and heard it played by people that knew what they were doing I was shocked at the difference. I immediately put the sheet music away and decided I had to learn this music by ear. That was in the late 70s, and by the mid 80s I realized I needed to change locations if I ever hoped to learn the music right. That's one of the main reasons why I moved to SF since there was a great session scene and many Irish players passed through on a regular basis. By the early 90s I was also traveling to Ireland as often as possible to see the place for myself and pick up whatever I could. Usually that resulted in feeling like I had even further to go than I realized. But that's one of the great things about this music -- as soon as you start to think you understand it you realize how much you still have left to learn.
So what are the experts trying to say? It is just as hard to play a tune too slow as it is too fast (as just right?). I still think a workout is a good way to gain confidence and that's what it's all about surely.
Workouts are great if you've already acquired some ability, if not they can be a needlessly depressing experience which must put loads of people off ITM.
The sense of rhythm and musicianship of the bodhran player backing Tommy Keane's "Dusty Miller/Silver Slipper/Willie's Fling" is some of the best I've heard. Trying slowing that down to hear what the guy is doing! Brilliant!
If more fast fiddlers and the like could adopt the same sort of subtleties, ITM would be a better place to live in!
When the tune goes to a new key,
I capo my bouzouki
And sit up straight and proud.
(Tuuurump-a-diddley-doo)
You might think,"That thing sounds funny!",
But I feel like Donal Lunny
When I'm strumming way too loud.
My 2c (CDN): Practicing with a metronome is a good way to build speed. Learning to practice with a metronome is a bitch, because the first thing it shows you is how awful your timing really is, but once you get over that it really helps. Basically work out the fastest you can play, then back off a bit from there. Then take it back up over a few weeks.
Doesn't have to be tunes, either; playing scales for a few minutes is just as good a way to build up to it. Just don't expect any easy payoffs; it all takes time.
The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
For every sessioneer I meet , I also meet a slew of people who play Irish music on some instrument or other but never attend a session and don't play music with others because they think they aren't good enough.
Thinking that they lack sufficient intelligence, heart or courage to join in, they are doomed to a life of closet ITM.
I had the brilliant idea of an ITM workout, just like an aerobics workout, the tune would start of at a very slow sort of country and western pace, warm up to the correct or common pace and then crank up to a ridiculous pace until something falls off. The idea being if you can play a tune too slow and too fast in the comfort of your own lounge room, you should be able to play it at the right speed in open company. I thought just one or two melody instruments would give an uncluttered sound to accompany.
If anyone would like contribute a tune, I would be happy to host a collection of them on my website for free download.
You never know, it might even be a fun thing to do!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
I just watched 'The Wizard of Oz' on TV too.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
I am planning on using the theory on the local Rugby team as well.....Heart, intelligence and courage.
Must be a goer!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
S. "No brain you see."
D. "No brain? Well how can you talk if you've got no brain?"
S. "I'm not sure about that, but a lot of people without brains do an awful lot of talking,?
D. "Well, I guess they do."
"I would while away the hours,
a diddling with the flowers,
an' fiddlin' with the rain.
(de diddle ee diddle ee dee)
And with the thoughts I've been havin'
I could be a Frankie Gavin,
If I only had a brain."
Except we all know that the ability to play fast has nothing whatsoever to do with the ability to play well.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Is that a hornpipe, Michael?
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
BTW it is quite an established practice in some session circles to start off tunes really slow, then rack them up. Maybe not to falling of pace, but to normal session speed anyway.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Well, no big slag-ofs yet and Leaky Illig didn't poo-poo it either.
Chances are it is a good idea. Goodnight all.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
I'm afraid I did: "we all know that the ability to play fast has nothing whatsoever to do with the ability to play well."
Do you really think a tape of someone speeding up would be a useful tool for a musician?
You may have "thinked of something never thunk before."
But I suggest you "sit, and think some more"
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Last night, the mix of folks at the session was approaching things at a much more leisurely pace, and I actually found it an interesting challenge to accompany at a different tempo. If you look carefully, and approach things constructively, there are challenges at every speed!
Looking at all the slagging that goes on at this website, is it any wonder that some budding musicians fear to venture out into the world?
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
His idea is good, i remember starting out (considering I'm only 18 i suppose i'm still "starting out") and my biggest fear in some of the sessions i've been to was keeping up with the speed.
We all know playing fast isn't necessarily playing well, but as much as people rant on about it, people in sessions do often play at fast speeds. I reckon a website with people speeding up tunes is a great idea (i duno if i'd pay for it but i would definately use it) because the closet ITM musician would get used to playing tunes at all speeds and would be more suited to a range of sessions (from slow to fast). Perhaps tag on some pointers about worming your way into playing in sessions aswell and recordings to help people add ornamentation and you have something worth money to beginners.
When I get my instruments and stuff set up i'll be sure to record a few tracks for you mate! (I've just moved into halls at uni and sadly not everyhtign has moved with me yet)
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by scottyboy
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Yeah...I'm really new to playing Irish, but I've been a fan for quite a while. I'm still scared to death to go to sessions not necessarily based on tempo problems, but just being a hindrance in general. I have a really good friend or two with whom I'll get together and jam, but that's about it.
How do you know when you really are ready to go to a session and add to it...not just be in the way? Do you just sort of have to jump in, or does there come a point when you're like, "Yup, I'm good enough now"?
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by IrishElf
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Hey IrishElf - pick a set of your favourite (not too hard) tunes off a CD, slow them down with software to a speed you can keep up with. Learn the tune, listen for ornamentation and rhythm, gradually speed them up with the software until you can play along with the CD at normal speed. This will take a while, but it's all part of the pastime. Take this set along to your session, grab a beer...when you're ready, play this set, then leisurely go back to your beer - like you might come back and play a bit more later. Cool!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
And for those of you who do not have musical aerobic tapes, or slowing down software, I myself find that using sheet music in my practice sessions at home is an excellent aid to building my ability to play tunes!
I would say that these shy people are suffering from performance anxiety, but that would reopen the whole "Is a session a performance?" kettle of fish again!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Sheet music is an excellent way to go, I agree. Having learned that way myself for the most part in conjunction to listening to the tune at the session (if I could ever get players to tell me, or remember, what the last tune was called!), I felt that sheet music was training my eye to read music, more than my ear to hear it.
I'd say it's quicker to be able to learn a tune by ear rather than by sheet music - if you can do it (if you know what I mean). Learning to play by ear is also something you have to 'learn'.
I think the best conclusion I could come to in ITM, was to pick a couple of sets that you like, concentrate on learning those to the best of your ability, go along to your session and just play those. People will back you. No one will be too worried about how fast or slow you play them. Repeat this process, and over a few years you'll find yourself being able to play along with most of what happens at a session.
This is unless you've started learning ITM from the age of around 5, surrounded by family, friends and neighbourhoods all playing the music. That helps - for the rest of us, there's sheet music and slow-down software, god help us!
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Yes I got a friend called freddy who say's he wont come to sessions because he feels intimidated by all those butch hairy men and because he is a "friend of dorothy" he just keeps harping on saying I am what I am !!!!!!!! Thats why he invites musicians round to his house for one on one sessions.
# Posted on November 13th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
I think the problem with speed has little to do with tempo. The problem with speed has more to do with the fact that a lot of folks seem to be in too big of a hurry to play fast. You can only play as fast as you can play.
I say don't worry about the fecking tempo -- play at your own pace. If this means you can't join in at your local session... so what? There's plenty of time for that. Right now you might want to just concentrate on what you CAN do. Play the music at a tempo that's comfortable for you, and if you want to play with other folks -- find folks that are at a similar level.
My opinion is that sheet music is not going to be any kind of easy fix to increase your tempo, and it might possibly create a situation where you’re reinforcing the wrong things about the music. I think it's still best to learn the music by ear before you begin to interpret ITM for yourself from sheet music.
I find slow down hardware is useful if you can’t find anyone to play the tune you’re interested in learning slowly for you. If you’re referencing a recording you might be getting a hybrid or hotrod version of the tune if it’s from some virtuoso’s recording. If you can actually find a person to play the tune slowly for you, they will likely give you as common a setting as possible to learn from. If you can’t find anyone to do that, look for other recorded versions to compare to what you have. Sometimes you can find the tunes recorded by ceili bands that are more likely to have the common setting. In this case finding sheet music of the tune might also help you to determine what a common setting might be, but don’t rely on the sheet music for much beyond that if you’re just learning.
But the important thing for me when learning is to play the music by ear at my own speed until I can accelerate the tempo comfortably at my own pace. Instead of using sheet music, first imprint the music in your memory and it will be far easier than any slow-down software or sheet music. Just my opinion based on my own experience.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Phantom Button is right. The only thing is that 'playing by ear' sounds like an impossibility of a thing to do to most novices, the "I'll never be able to do that" syndrome, "I better go for sheet music." That can be the reaction, and it can discourage people. Playing by ear is a skill in itself, and an advanced one, it is something you have to build up over time. What you are trying to do in ITM is two things really - learn the tunes *and* learn your instrument - these can get in the way of each other, and makes the job really hard.
The connection between what the notes you hear in a tune, and where these are located on your instrument, without having to think about these positions, and it becomes all automatic and very fast, is a learned skill. When you have that down to some degree, you begin to be able to "play by ear".
So, Phantom Button, you have been playing for quite a while, but you started out as an adult learner, I think?
My experience at sessions has been that if you go along without a few common tunes that you've gone to the trouble of learning, and play them at your own pace, people will back you at that pace in the tune. When they want to ramp it up though, take a ticket and have a listen. It's a good opportunity then to let osmosis take over and let your ear get trained up.
Most people, me too, will initially go for sheet music to learn a tune, because sight is something that is more apparent one can do, than play by ear. Learning the tune from sheet music then speeding up will be the aim, but what it doesn't do it teach you to quickly translate the seen note to a position on your instrument quickly. That's why people have a hard time increasing speed having learned from sheet music - because you are going through more mental steps playing that way, than you do playing by ear.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Yes, I initially learned as an adult in a remote location where I was the only person playing the music at all. The first tune I learned was 'Ships Are Sailing' that I got from sheet music. When I went somewhere else and heard it played by people that knew what they were doing I was shocked at the difference. I immediately put the sheet music away and decided I had to learn this music by ear. That was in the late 70s, and by the mid 80s I realized I needed to change locations if I ever hoped to learn the music right. That's one of the main reasons why I moved to SF since there was a great session scene and many Irish players passed through on a regular basis. By the early 90s I was also traveling to Ireland as often as possible to see the place for myself and pick up whatever I could. Usually that resulted in feeling like I had even further to go than I realized. But that's one of the great things about this music -- as soon as you start to think you understand it you realize how much you still have left to learn.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
So what are the experts trying to say? It is just as hard to play a tune too slow as it is too fast (as just right?). I still think a workout is a good way to gain confidence and that's what it's all about surely.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Workouts are great if you've already acquired some ability, if not they can be a needlessly depressing experience which must put loads of people off ITM.
Phantom is right on the button here.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
This thread has had me confused for a while, so I've just re-read it and it all makes sense to me now.
I posted the question, "Do you really think a tape of someone speeding up would be a useful tool for a musician?"
And I'm sorry for being a bit slow there, but I've realised mcknowall is a bodhran player. Not a musician at all.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
The sense of rhythm and musicianship of the bodhran player backing Tommy Keane's "Dusty Miller/Silver Slipper/Willie's Fling" is some of the best I've heard. Trying slowing that down to hear what the guy is doing! Brilliant!
If more fast fiddlers and the like could adopt the same sort of subtleties, ITM would be a better place to live in!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
When the tune goes to a new key,
I capo my bouzouki
And sit up straight and proud.
(Tuuurump-a-diddley-doo)
You might think,"That thing sounds funny!",
But I feel like Donal Lunny
When I'm strumming way too loud.
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by Steve L
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
Nice one, Steve!
# Posted on November 14th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow
My 2c (CDN): Practicing with a metronome is a good way to build speed. Learning to practice with a metronome is a bitch, because the first thing it shows you is how awful your timing really is, but once you get over that it really helps. Basically work out the fastest you can play, then back off a bit from there. Then take it back up over a few weeks.
Doesn't have to be tunes, either; playing scales for a few minutes is just as good a way to build up to it. Just don't expect any easy payoffs; it all takes time.
# Posted on November 20th 2006 by rdi